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Also, just curious y'all, what do you guys think of League of Legends being a possible series that contains Smash DLC candidates? There is that one 4chan leak yet to be disproven, but neglecting that leak, the series is making a Switch presence and it's big af.
I feel like I didn't state my earlier case very well. I wasn't intending to even touch the thought of discussion being a point for or against the character. Nintendo sure doesn't care about it. I was just trying to point out that the specific question "do you want them?" could get old quick and that some of the disinterest in discussing characters is probably coming from the repeated asking of that specific question. I wasn't even talking about myself when I said that. I'm content to just lurk or do something else if I'm not interested in what's going on. Guess it was just my trying to point out a different perspective biting me again.
Sorry if I came across as being rude. I'm not entirely sure if people are referring to me or someone else, as all the replies have been to me, but If it was me, sorry.
Also, just curious y'all, what do you guys think of League of Legends being a possible series that contains Smash DLC candidates? There is that one 4chan leak yet to be disproven, but neglecting that leak, the series is making a Switch presence and it's big af.
Halo infinite's been in development for a reeeeal long time, I'd be very surprised if his stage wasn't Zeta Halo (the main location of Infinite.)
As far as moveset goes? A ton of weapons to choose from. Assault rifle would be classic, I think incorporating the pistol into a throw a la fox would be good. Needler would be cool, but maybe not worth the special slot. Gotta incorporate grenades somehow, even if just the sticky grenade to distinguish from snake. Melee smash attacks with various melee weapons (sword, grav hammer) would be expected. Final smash is a spartan laser, or maybe a Mac cannon from Infinity in orbit (unless they wanna go full on Activate-a-Halo, but me thinks that's a little extreme.) Weapon beat down forward tilt.
He should be able to crouch like in game, for the full halo teabagging experience.
Passive ability: bonus weapon headshot damage. It makes sense to me, but I also don't know how you work that into Jigglypuff/Kirby/Pac-Man/etc without being a little overpowered.
Taunt 1: slinging the assault rifle on his shoulder pose
Taunt 2: pulling out Cortanas data pad, and having her shimmer into existence for a couple seconds
Taunt 3: violently teabagging the ground
Stage entrance should be a drop pod (that'd link with an Infinity Final Smash)
Red, blue, green, and black are four obvious costumes, maybe throw in a CE variant but Tbh I think it'd look pretty dated.
Music choices? Warthog run, main theme, and blow me away mjolnir mix (but probably instrumentalized like a lot of sonics stuff) are the only three I really wanna see. The rest would just be bonus. (halo boys, smack me if I'm forgetting something on music)
I'm all for it, Crash Bandicoot is "Currently" my most wanted character and along with Master Chief would give the west a one hell of a 1-2 punch of a finale.
Having the former de facto mascot of the original "Sony Playstation" and the face of "Microsoft Xbox" brands would make Smash feel "Complete" or as damn close that you can get to it to in my personal opinion.
Reminder that if you’re bored of the same characters coming up you’re welcome to start up a new discussion about the character you’d like to talk about. Certain characters pop up here more often than you’d expect simply because they have dedicated fans who bring them into the conversation.
I mean yeah, I’m tired of the community revolving around the same names too, but this place in particular is a lot more open to and excited to discuss some more out there possibilities when presented with them. Even if they don’t perceive them as particularly likely... it’s just something cool to talk about.
But instead of saying “wow those characters are boring!” you could say like... “it would be cool if we had something in there to shake things up” and present some options for variety sake. Like, I personally don’t like Crash very much for example. But outright negativity toward a character just for being popular is never gonna be received very well.
I think the problem is that it's kinda hard for characters to gain traction around here. Oftentimes it feels like whenever a new name is brought up, they just fade away due to a lack of interest or knowledge.
...I could plug the thread I made to encourage discussion for overlooked characters, but I'm not sure if I should go for such a shameless self-advertisement...
NGL Yall, If these three can get in, the based af Activision trio, two legendary platformers, and a primary character of a series that inspired major brands such as amiibo and the figurine-game era would be my dream come true. Thanks for tuning in to my TED talk.
I think the problem is that it's kinda hard for characters to gain traction around here. Oftentimes it feels like whenever a new name is brought up, they just fade away due to a lack of interest or knowledge.
...I could plug the thread I made to encourage discussion for overlooked characters, but I'm not sure if I should go for such a shameless self-advertisement...
Personally speaking, after the Steve trailer I thought Chief was dead in the water. It's funny how since then it's reverted all the way to feeling like Erdrick discussion pre-E3 2019, at least to some people on here..
I think part of the problem is that in the beginning of the DLC era speculation felt like a wide open field where just about anyone could get in. Now a lot of commonly discussed characters like Banjo, Erdrick, a Fire Emblem Three Houses character, An Arms rep, a Xenoblade 2 rep, and Steve have made it in. That's alongside a lot of other characters that have either been deconfirmed or are now incredibly unlikely, such as Ryu Hayabusa, Geno, Doomslayer, Heihachi, a Resident Evil character (Or any Capcom character for that matter), and a Gen 8 Pokemon.
tl;dr: When you reach the end of speculation, the discussed range of possible characters is guaranteed to shrink via simple process of elimination, which does limit discussion, and is probably why I'm pretty inactive on here nowadays.
I think the problem is that it's kinda hard for characters to gain traction around here. Oftentimes it feels like whenever a new name is brought up, they just fade away due to a lack of interest or knowledge.
Then again, you spearheaded pretty consistent discussion about Adol and Falcom for what felt like weeks. Obviously you can’t force people to care about a character they don’t know much about or who comes from a game they never played, but there are still conversations to be had about these characters’ potential inclusions and information to be fed to those unfamiliar and this thread has proven that through those passionate enough to keep those conversations alive.
If people just want to stick to their guns it can’t be helped, but I figure this is a thread where people actively want to get closer to the answer. And the only way to do that is to keep bringing new ideas into the discussion... but also thinking critically about the ones who typically dominate them. So there’s certainly a whole lot of room for both and more often than not I think people are at least willing to talk about something new. Even if it doesn’t really stick.
I feel like a lot of people get discouraged by sometimes negative sounding assessments of these characters’ odds too, but such is the spice of speculation. It’s usually not personal.
Smash has characters that represent consoles from Nintendo's competition (both past and present): The SEGA consoles are repped by its mascot Sonic, the Neo Geo is repped by Terry, Microsoft is repped by Banjo and Steve (with Chief, the mascot of XBox, seeming likely), Playstation's mascot Crash seeming likely (though you could also argue that it's already repped by Cloud's inclusion), and Hudson Soft, the creator of the Turbografx-16, is repped by Bomberman as Assist Trophy and is owned by Konami, who has Snake and Simon in the roster. The competitor consoles not repped are Atari systems. What Atari-owned characters would be a great pick?
I'm starting to have suspicions that lack of information is causing speculation to run in loops. Not circles, granted, but cycles of assumptions made about the Smash DLC that aren't necessarily right, but get boosts of popularity for brief moments on arbitrary details.
I wanna make it clear that I fully admit this is just dumb, petty personal gripes on my part. This isn't me going "here's why eggman would be an Objectively Bad Choice", but tbh I just need to kinda vent about why Eggman would be kind of a bummer for me
First off, and I already went over some of this in another thread, but there's just so much other SEGA stuff I'd rather see, and more specifically, I feel like we're lacking in some more in-house stuff. Now then, I'm not trying to be a purist, I don't think Bayonetta or Persona aren't "real" SEGA or some stupid **** like that, but in-house SEGA stuff has a vibe. They just have a really distinct way of making really great and memorable character designs, and it makes me almost see them as a "family", in the same way that a lot of people see Capcom's characters. And, generally speaking, that part of SEGA is what I care about the most from them. Most of my favorite SEGA stuff comes from that umbrella! But that side of things...isn't really all that well represented in Smash. Sonic is Sonic, that's kinda in its own ballpark, but the other two characters we have are from outside devs or acquired studios. Which, again, that's not necessarily bad, I'm not trying to imply they're somehow lesser, but frankly I just wanna see more of the SEGA I love. From that side of things, we only really have the Virtua Fighter content and the Bayo remix of After Burner, which I love that these are there, but in the grand scheme of things, it's not that much. I just wanna see my favorite part of this company's IP library celebrated some more in this huge-ass game, which I'll elaborate more on later. I've just been waiting for someone from this side of SEGA to come in for a while now, and I'd be pretty disappointed if we were on our fourth damned SEGA rep by now, and this could finally be the chance for one of these characters to get in, and iiiiiiiiiit's...more Sonic. And I'll have to get back to waiting in line again.
Another reason is that I'm just kinda frustrated at the mentality that "well Sonic is so much bigger than all the other series, so it should be next". I dunno, it just annoys me.
Another thing is the fact that so many people only see SEGA as a Sonic machine. As a really big SEGA fan, it frustrates me that the SEGA community has so much more of this disconnect compared to other VG companies, where this large of a percentage of it cares about one series and one series only. No other big VG company I can think of has this big of a bubble in its community. This is the part where I have to stress that this whole thing reaaaaaaaaaally isn't a genuine argument against Eggman and is just how I personally feel, but being completely honest, it does make me feel kinda sad that SEGA has a bajillion great IPs I could keep on gushing about, and what most people would rather have next from them in Smash is...more Sonic. Cause at the end of the day, I do want more people to be into what I'm into! Sure, it can backfire and the community I'm in ends up being flooded with unfunny memes, but if it works out, well now I have a buncha more people to talk to about the things I like and more bridges are formed in this community! And I think in that regard is why Eggman would be a bummer to me, cause it'd just maintain the general perception that Sonic is all they have.
Somewhat related is the notion that "uhhhhh well actually sega don't really have a lot of good options". Bruh. This is one that's really irritating me, cause I've seen people basically act like every SEGA character outside of a handful of their big IPs is this irrelevant nobody with no legacy whatsoever, and goddamn, dude. A few weeks back, I was on Discord, and the topic of Opa-Opa came up, and someone compared him to Buck Bumble. Even if people are aware of some of their other IPs, there's still the notion that SEGA haven't really done anything notable for the gaming industry that doesn't involve fast blue hedgehogs and mayyyyyyybe, on a really lucky day, some combination of demon summoning, Japanese crime dudes and falling blobs, and that's simply not true man. I want more people to be aware of just how much legacy they actually have.
Thing is, honestly? I ****ing love Eggman! I'd honestly consider him to be one of my favorite Sonic characters and one of my favorite VG villains. But if I had the choice to either double dip into Sonic or show the world what I love about Yakuza or Puyo Puyo or Sakura Wars or Phantasy Star or Virtua Fighter or Shenmue or Fantasy Zone or Jet Set Radio or House of the Dead or Streets of Rage? Yeah I'd pick the latter. Again, I love Eggman, just the fact that it's ****ing Eggman would probably prevent me from outright disliking his inclusion, but the cons just outweigh the pros for me.
TL;DR, I'm a big fan of the "classic" SEGA stuff in particular, which we still haven't gotten anyone from (not counting Sonic who's...Sonic), and Eggman would set that back by another god-knows-how-long. Adding salt in the wound is A. the amount of people that only see SEGA as Sonic, and B. the notion that "well actually they don't really have a lot of good IPs", and all of that combined just makes Eggman's possible inclusion a Big Ol' Bummer for me. It'd be retreading old ground when my personal favorite ground has still yet to be treaded at all, and most people either only know about the old ground or don't think the other ground is worth treading when lemme tell ya, some real good **** has come outta that ground.
Sorry for the galaxy-sized essay here, but I needed to let off some steam
Yeah I completely understand you. I might not be that into SEGA classic stuff beyond a few things, but I get what you're trying to say. So it's not like you should be feel bad or anything like that to think what you're thinking.
About some people saying SEGA doesn't have interesting stuff beyond Sonic... yeah, I've seen these people and their comments multiple times, and even if I'm not the biggest SEGA expert, it always makes me bat an eye. I comprehend that Sonic is, obviously, a very big series and therefore, has a big fanbase. Sonic certainly has a passionate fanbase I'd say, and that's cool. But when it comes to this subject, it is indeed kinda tiring to see (because these reactions usually come from them in my experience) some of them to absolutely only care about Sonic, which to an extent is a valid stance, but at the same time you can find them dismissing other SEGA series.
Obviously not all of them, to clarify, but there are definitely a few. Not the first time that I've seen some guys on Twitter say "SEGA was terrible this year" multiple times in the past few years... only because they didn't release a new Sonic game, and despise of having launched multiple, varied and acclaimed games such as Yakuza 7, Persona 5, Valkyria Chronicles 4, Panzer Dragoon Remake, Streets of Rage 4, Sakura Wars, 13 Sentinels, and more. There's definitely a big disconnect between some Sonic fans and fans of SEGA as a whole.
I also feel this problem exists partly because most of the classic stuff SEGA is usually associated with (at least in the West) hasn't seen, as far as I know, much future in the last 15-20 years or so? Golden Axe, Streets of Rage, Shining Force or Virtua Fighter are definitely classic series, but I bet most of the younger audience has not heard about these franchises.
I think it also doesn't help the fact that some of these series are very arcade-y in their philosophy. Not because that's a bad thing, but because most if not all of the games that go more straight to the point have lost presence in the gaming market. These are still there, but usually as low budget projects or indie games, which usually also means low advertising and less exposure. In other words: arcade games are not really mainstream nowadays. For example, Housemarque, the studio that recently has gained some acknowledgement and exposure after releasing Returnal on PS5, is a finnish studio that until a few years ago was a studio focused on doing crazy arcade games, sometimes with a mix of other genres such as bullet hell, beat em up, co-op, and so on. But despite their games being super good and fun, they barely got any acknowledgement... not until they announced they would move on from developing these games and made Returnal for PS5, which still has that arcade-y spirit and their visual flashiness, but at the same time, it's a different thing: it's a rogue-like game with a decent focus on narrative, and well, so far it has been their most popular title to date (though I guess Sony's push in marketing also helped).
So, arcade games definitely still have an audience, the problem in my eyes is that said audience is not that big. At the same time I feel like devs and companies are aware that said games, despite of their quality, are usually not very marketeable for most of the current audiences, so they stick to low budget projects for said games, remakes or licensing out their IPs to other devs, as Sega did recently with Streets of Rage 4.
And in this scenario it definitely doesn't help that it doesn't seem Sega did a good job on keeping alive most of their classic library, at least until the past years, where they seem to be pushing more these beloved franchises, even if they're not developing these games in-house.
I could be wrong though, but that's my perspective on the situation. I basically agree with you and I share your feelings about it to an extent, because as of now I'm not as invested as you or others in SEGA classic IPs, but I can totally see why this could bother you or other fans.
Smash has characters that represent consoles from Nintendo's competition (both past and present): The SEGA consoles are repped by its mascot Sonic, the Neo Geo is repped by Terry, Microsoft is repped by Banjo and Steve (with Chief, the mascot of XBox, seeming likely), Playstation's mascot Crash seeming likely (though you could also argue that it's already repped by Cloud's inclusion), and Hudson Soft, the creator of the Turbografx-16, is repped by Bomberman as Assist Trophy and is owned by Konami, who has Snake and Simon in the roster. The competitor consoles not repped are Atari systems. What Atari-owned characters would be a great pick?
Then again, you spearheaded pretty consistent discussion about Adol and Falcom for what felt like weeks. Obviously you can’t force people to care about a character they don’t know much about or who comes from a game they never played, but there are still conversations to be had about these characters’ potential inclusions and information to be fed to those unfamiliar and this thread has proven that through those passionate enough to keep those conversations alive.
If people just want to stick to their guns it can’t be helped, but I figure this is a thread where people actively want to get closer to the answer. And the only way to do that is to keep bringing new ideas into the discussion... but also thinking critically about the ones who typically dominate them. So there’s certainly a whole lot of room for both and more often than not I think people are at least willing to talk about something new. Even if it doesn’t really stick.
I feel like a lot of people get discouraged by sometimes negative sounding assessments of these characters’ odds too, but such is the spice of speculation. It’s usually not personal.
To be fair, I also had the Falcom rumor backing me up. I just got lucky when those Asian Trails ports brought it back to prominence. There was also the parallels drawn between SNK and Falcom that made people thing "Oh wait, these guys could be a darkhorse inclusion!" I feel like without those two elements (Especially the former), Adol wouldn't have taken off the way he did.
I think the problem is that it's kinda hard for characters to gain traction around here. Oftentimes it feels like whenever a new name is brought up, they just fade away due to a lack of interest or knowledge.
...I could plug the thread I made to encourage discussion for overlooked characters, but I'm not sure if I should go for such a shameless self-advertisement...
Same, man. Sometimes you gotta know when to stop hoping and just throw in the towel.
Pouring one out for my 8 Most Wanted tonight. Though your sacrifices did give me Simon Belmont, Banjo & Kazooie, and Princess Daisy, you are all still sorely missed. May Sakurai smile upon you on your way to that great Big Battlefield in the sky.
I'm not trying to single you out, but I see this mentality pop up fairly often, and it throws me.
Judging characters negatively based on a transient moment like whether the reveal was anticipated or not is focusing too much on speculative rhetoric and really downplaying the fact that a character is more than just a fragment of conversation. Being expected or not expected really says nothing about the character themselves. It says more about the fanbase, and having us be what colors your view of characters is putting stock in all the wrong things. Shouldn't the verdict around them be based on your feelings of them or their series, or how they actually play? Something lasting and innate to the actual character.
It seems strange to malign a character for being expected. Anticipation isn't inherently positive or negative. You're taking it upon yourself to fill in the blanks with negativity for reasons divorced from the actual character. You're letting this be more important than the actual game. Isn't that backwards?
I'm not opposed to these characters, I'm just sick of them being the only ones we talk about. Any time I try to bring up another character, the post gets ignored for the seventh discussion on Dr. Eggman this week. And I haven't played a Halo or Crash or Street Fighter game, so I have nothing to add to the discussion.
SharkLord's thread is good with this, considering we talk about unorthodox characters more often (though not always, we have the extremely rare topic of... Sora tomorrow.
Yeah I completely understand you. I might not be that into SEGA classic stuff beyond a few things, but I get what you're trying to say. So it's not like you should be feel bad or anything like that to think what you're thinking.
About some people saying SEGA doesn't have interesting stuff beyond Sonic... yeah, I've seen these people and their comments multiple times, and even if I'm not the biggest SEGA expert, it always makes me bat an eye. I comprehend that Sonic is, obviously, a very big series and therefore, has a big fanbase. Sonic certainly has a passionate fanbase I'd say, and that's cool. But when it comes to this subject, it is indeed kinda tiring to see (because these reactions usually come from them in my experience) some of them to absolutely only care about Sonic, which to an extent is a valid stance, but at the same time you can find them dismissing other SEGA series.
Obviously not all of them, to clarify, but there are definitely a few. Not the first time that I've seen some guys on Twitter say "SEGA was terrible this year" multiple times in the past few years... only because they didn't release a new Sonic game, and despise of having launched multiple, varied and acclaimed games such as Yakuza 7, Persona 5, Valkyria Chronicles 4, Panzer Dragoon Remake, Streets of Rage 4, Sakura Wars, 13 Sentinels, and more. There's definitely a big disconnect between some Sonic fans and fans of SEGA as a whole.
I also feel this problem exists partly because most of the classic stuff SEGA is usually associated with (at least in the West) hasn't seen, as far as I know, much future in the last 15-20 years or so? Golden Axe, Streets of Rage, Shining Force or Virtua Fighter are definitely classic series, but I bet most of the younger audience has not heard about these franchises.
I think it also doesn't help the fact that some of these series are very arcade-y in their philosophy. Not because that's a bad thing, but because most if not all of the games that go more straight to the point have lost presence in the gaming market. These are still there, but usually as low budget projects or indie games, which usually also means low advertising and less exposure. In other words: arcade games are not really mainstream nowadays. For example, Housemarque, the studio that recently has gained some acknowledgement and exposure after releasing Returnal on PS5, is a finnish studio that until a few years ago was a studio focused on doing crazy arcade games, sometimes with a mix of other genres such as bullet hell, beat em up, co-op, and so on. But despite their games being super good and fun, they barely got any acknowledgement... not until they announced they would move on from developing these games and made Returnal for PS5, which still has that arcade-y spirit and their visual flashiness, but at the same time, it's a different thing: it's a rogue-like game with a decent focus on narrative, and well, so far it has been their most popular title to date (though I guess Sony's push in marketing also helped).
So, arcade games definitely still have an audience, the problem in my eyes is that said audience is not that big. At the same time I feel like devs and companies are aware that said games, despite of their quality, are usually not very marketeable for most of the current audiences, so they stick to low budget projects for said games, remakes or licensing out their IPs to other devs, as Sega did recently with Streets of Rage 4.
And in this scenario it definitely doesn't help that it doesn't seem Sega did a good job on keeping alive most of their classic library, at least until the past years, where they seem to be pushing more these beloved franchises, even if they're not developing these games in-house.
I could be wrong though, but that's my perspective on the situation. I basically agree with you and I share your feelings about it to an extent, because as of now I'm not as invested as you or others in SEGA classic IPs, but I can totally see why this could bother you or other fans.
With Sega its also very much a case of contrasts in region creating very different zeitgeists for Sega's role in gaming. Here the company gained ground with arcade machines, was huge with the Genesis and had some (all too brief) attention with the Dreamcast before becoming third party where its been very up and down in the public eye.
Europe and Japan are different stories there. Even beyond that Sega was basically running the table circa the 16 bit era in the former, there's been a fairly solid base of operations there to boot, with the aforementioned Football Manager and Total War maintaining strong sales there to this day. In Japan even with the struggles of the MegaDrive and Dreamcast, the Saturn is still beloved and its arcade franchises were still strongly relevant to many players prior to the pandemic.
Sega more or less has different identities in the other two big console/PC gaming regions and its resulted in wholly different idea as to what's significant from the company there versus here,
NGL Yall, If these three can get in, the based af Activision trio, two legendary platformers, and a primary character of a series that inspired major brands such as amiibo and the figurine-game era would be my dream come true. Thanks for tuning in to my TED talk.
