Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Gnateb]

Dark Souls III did the best out of the trilogy in Japan within it's first 2 weeks (and everywhere else too, but the state of home console gaming in Japan made it's sales pretty impressive). I think it was somewhere between 200,000 and 250,000 copies. That was just the ps4 release, but that covers most of it's sales anyway.

 

[Gengar84]

Well then, I'm obligated to move on to a Crash discussion. Let's see:

If E3 is a double reveal, Crash is one of those reveals, and the other character is an Activision-Blizzard character, who would make a great fit? My ideas:

Coco
Spyro
Call of Duty
Guitar Hero
Pitfall Harry
Tracer (though maybe Winston could fit too, since he'd be the first monkey fighter who can actually talk)
Warcraft
The Devil
Kerrigan

I'm really hoping it's either Illidan Stormrage (Warcraft), Sarah Kerrigan (Starcraft), or Diablo (Diablo). Really almost any Warcraft or Starcraft character would be awesome to see. I've mentioned this before but I really want to see a non-human character that isn't a cartoony platformer or a Pokemon. If I had to pick just one though, I'd definitely go with Illidan since he's been one of my favorite video game characters since Warcraft 3.

 

[Technomage]

Don’t forget, we have Robin as well

And the Blue Captain Falcon.

 

[SharkLord]

I do agree, but with the caveat that she would've had very little notability outside Japan when FP2 was chosen. That's what makes me hesitant re: Ayumi (or any FDC character) - for a while the FDC remake was scheduled to be Japan-exclusive, and only after a while did they announce an international release.

This point's kinda interesting, actually, because there's been some debate in her thread on exactly when it was decided that FDC would be localized. It's been pointed out that VNs tend to be pretty tricky to localize, thanks to a mixture of being text-heavy by design and having some cultural things that don't carry over as well. Heck, Miyamoto even went on record talking about how "adventure games" (Which seem to be a shorthand for VNs) are hard to localize. Not sure exactly when the localization process started or how it would affect Smash, but it seems like it's not exactly something you could just decide to make on a whim.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

I'd only be shocked if our next character is ****ing Batman or something.

Well, we do have Joker in the game; we really need Batman, too.

Don’t forget, we have Robin as well

Well.....

Source

 

[Pillow]

I've mentioned this before but I really want to see a non-human character that isn't a cartoony platformer or a Pokemon.

Well Ridley fits this description, though I agree there could be more.

 

[N3ON]

Well.....

Source

how they really not gonna cast marx as joker

 

[Technomage]

I've mentioned this before but I really want to see a non-human character that isn't a cartoony platformer or a Pokemon.

Well, what about characters that aren't a part of the normal human species (such as Ganondorf, who is of the human subspecies known as Gerudo)?

Well Ridley fits this description, though I agree there could be more.

Since Ridley's species is unknown, I came up with a theory where he's actually a human who mutated into that pteradactyl-dragon thing.

 

[chocolatejr9]

how they really not gonna cast marx as joker

I know right? Hyness was WAY too weird here...

 

[Megadoomer]

Well, we do have Joker in the game; we really need Batman, too.

We have Terry - he's a Batman!

He even met the Joker!

 

[ChunkySlugger72]

Well then, I'm obligated to move on to a Crash discussion. Let's see:

If E3 is a double reveal, Crash is one of those reveals, and the other character is an Activision-Blizzard character, who would make a great fit? My ideas:

Coco
Spyro
Call of Duty
Guitar Hero
Pitfall Harry
Tracer (though maybe Winston could fit too, since he'd be the first monkey fighter who can actually talk)
Warcraft
The Devil
Kerrigan

Crash Bandicoot and to a somewhat lesser extent Spyro the Dragon are the "Only" reason I even pay attention to Activision at all, I have no interest in the Blizzard side as it does absolutely nothing for me, So best case scenario for me would be Crash and Coco Bandicoot as an "Echoe/Semi Clone" and Spyro the Dragon as the 2nd fighter as unlikely as all that sounds.

Realistically I'm just hoping for Crash/Coco Bandicoot.

 

[Technomage]

Crash Bandicoot and to a somewhat lesser extent Spyro the Dragon are the "Only" reason I even pay attention to Activision at all, I have no interest in the Blizzard side as it does absolutely nothing for me, So best case scenario for me would be Crash and Coco Bandicoot as an "Echoe/Semi Clone" and Spyro the Dragon as the 2nd fighter as unlikely as all that sounds.

Realistically I'm just hoping for Crash/Coco Bandicoot.

View attachment 315085

Okay, but as fellow someone who would have loved to see Crash with a Coco echo, I gotta let you know: Coco as a Crash echo will not be possible, since that'd require altering their skeletons, which would mess with their animations and hitboxes.

 

[ChunkySlugger72]

Okay, but as fellow someone who would have loved to see Crash with a Coco echo, I gotta let you know: Coco as a Crash echo will not be possible, since that'd require altering their skeletons, which would mess with their animations and hitboxes.

I know it sounds kind of iffy, But if the Smash team can somehow make it happen then that's absolutely gravy.

If not then as long Crash Bandicoot makes the cut I guess that's all that really matters at the end of the day.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Okay, but as fellow someone who would have loved to see Crash with a Coco echo, I gotta let you know: Coco as a Crash echo will not be possible, since that'd require altering their skeletons, which would mess with their animations and hitboxes.

Also, their personalities are vastly different. Coco’s more the genius type and she actually talks full sentences. Crash is the brute type and only “speaks” in grunts so...

 

[Guynamednelson]

Also, their personalities are vastly different. Coco’s more the genius type and she actually talks full sentences. Crash is the brute type and only “speaks” in grunts so...

Echoes don't really prevent such a thing like that. Ken has more voice clips than Ryu, for example, and if that doesn't count because of how different Ken is, the same is true for Richter having more voice clips than Simon.

 

[Shroob]

Also, their personalities are vastly different. Coco’s more the genius type and she actually talks full sentences. Crash is the brute type and only “speaks” in grunts so...

I don't think personality matters irt Echoes tbh.


I mean, look at Ken and Ryu, or Richter and Simon, they're very different personality-wise.

 

[chocolatejr9]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Just felt like reminding everybody...

 

[Shroob]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Just felt like reminding everybody...

Lloyd fans be like

 

[Guynamednelson]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Just felt like reminding everybody...

Ryo attempts fighting Goenitz (1996) (colorized)

 

[N3ON]

I maintain that Merch, Lore and Personality constitute the unholy trinity of things people think matter for inclusion but don't.

 

[7NATOR]

7NATOR , we both like to do long SmashFAQs writeups, so maybe you'll appreciate mine about this.

Diablo and Dark Souls Theory - Super Smash Bros. Ultimate

For Super Smash Bros. Ultimate on the Nintendo Switch, a GameFAQs message board topic titled "Diablo and Dark Souls Theory".

gamefaqs.gamespot.com

Who knows? I think spirits are the most likely outcome, if either do end up getting content. Y'know, Amiibo functions and all.

I've read the the topic before, and yeah it is interesting. I personally liked the theory.

Personally, I don't think either would be the characters, but I'm not gonna count it out though, as I could see reasons for each franchise to be picked for Smash DLC, especially Dark Souls. As for Diablo being too satanic since he is supposed to be Satan, I will say the Kids these days can be more edgy, and I don't think they'll heavily tie religion to it, so it should be fine

If Smash followed the ideology of "Recognizability is key," we'd probably have at least three Sonic characters now, among others. The thing is, Smash doesn't really have a consistent line of thinking. We have Steve, the player character of the best-selling game of all time (So far), and Sephiroth, the JRPG villain from the JRPG (For the West, at least), right after Byleth and Min Min, from decently successful Switch released but nowhere near the level of Steve and Sephiroth.

Aside from that, first-parties seem to have lower standards than third-parties. I'd presume it's a mix of A: Not having to go through any negotiations, and B: Being able to promote their own IPs, encouraging a stable loop that gives them the full profits without having to share with any third-parties. Well, it's probably a little more complex than that, but Nintendo seems to be less strict with their own characters than another company's.

But in all honesty... I can't really say who's more likely than who anymore. I have cracked, but in a direction. I've just given up on trying to find precise, accurate results at this point. Now, I'm just gonna name a character go "Yeah, I guess they could happen," and leave it at that.

It's not just about the Recognizability.

When it comes to this specific scenario of Ayumi vs Shadow the Hedgehog, In my personal opinion, there is no reason for Ayumi to ever be in over Shadow, or at least any other Sonic character

Remember, Byleth and Pyra/Mythra were only added as DLC after their Franchises/Games had actual data to back up the success of their Franchises/games, and and Appeal to Nintendo's safety in approaching the DLC since they have actual data. Famicon Detective Club is now just coming out of hiatus, and there's no data to show how well the Remakes would do. On the other hand, We've seen Sonic games do well on Just Nintendo, and that's not also including other consoles, as well as Mobile, and other avenues of the Brand


Ayumi isn't a character that is Especially popular when it comes to Requests. She's an extreme Darkhorse in this regard. Meanwhile Shadow has been requested character for like a Decade now. I don't see Ayumi getting fan-made trailers, and Loads of Mods dedicated to her, unlike Shadow

Ayumi and Famicom Detective Club are not things many Casuals are gonna know, hell even many gamers aren't gonna know about it. While I don't think Shadow is as known as Eggman, Tails, & Knuckles when it comes to the Casuals, He's still a character I can still see Casuals recognizing, and even then if they saw a picture of him, they'd be able to know that it's from Sonic.

and even in Moveset potential and such, It's much easier to make a Moveset concept for Shadow than it is for Ayumi. I'm not saying Ayumi can't have a moveset concept, but it would probably take much more work to implement the feeling of her franchise and of the character into Smash because of the type of game she comes from, and unlike Phoenix who has a source of material to gauge from (UMVC3), Ayumi doesn't have any of that. Meanwhile Shadow has 2 Decades worth of content to use, including unused gamplay mechanics like the Boost and Light Speed dash, as well as the concept of his Chaos powers and Control over Time and Space.

Even including in the fact that Shadow is 3rd party, It's not like the 3rd party is a Company that's known for being hard to work with (see Activision as an example). Sega is very cooperative when it comes to Sonic as a brand in crossovers, as Sonic has been in the Smash series for 3 games now. Shadow has been in 3 games now

If we knew being an AT didn't matter for getting selected I'd choose Shadow. Ayumi is first-party and has a current game, but games at this point are probably too late to have factored into things, it is just a remake, which usually don't mean as much, and it's also not the type of game that tends to get selected for promotion. I doubt Nintendo even decided whether they were going to have it localized when FP2 was being assembled.

If we get an original sequel I'd say Ayumi would be likelier than Shadow in general for next time, just because the bar for first-parties is very low compared to not just third-parties, but the fact that even intra-series wise Shadow may not have the best chance - unless Sakurai is looking for derivative additions.

As it is now, both are quite unlikely. I think Shadow has a lot more in his favour, but he's also working against larger hindrances. I think the question is more debatable than people are giving it credit for, but I think that's because I'm giving Ayumi less credit than others are.

Actually I think Ayumi should be given less credit than even you are giving her, as explained above, The fact that her franchise is now just coming out of hiatus, and the games themselves haven't come out yet, means that Nintendo doesn't have the data to be confident in putting Ayumi as DLC. Corrin, Byleth, Min Min, and Pyra/Mythra got in after their Franchises/Games already showed that they were success that can be promoted, or at least the franchise is a success. It also doesn't help that Visual Novels are kind of a niche genre in itself.

I don't like to disregard characters too much, as I like to respects people's opinions and thoughts, but The fact that I'm seeing Ayumi be seen as more likely, from some of the same people that says Assist aren't 100% deconfirms, but it depends on the actual character being promoted, kills me inside, and just stress why I'm on the Shadow Agenda, Because I try to put respect on Shadow's Name, and give an actual realistic look into the character's chances that people want to disregard for any other reasons

Ayumi in her current state should not be seen more likely than Shadow the Damn Hedgehog, if you're trying to be accurate with your guesses. the Hindrances (besides the Assist) that Shadow faces are competition with other Sonic characters and people looking at Shadow as Echo Fodder

Eggman and Tails have their reasons to be in Over Shadow, but they aren't so above him that Shadow shouldn't be factored into the equation at all. Between him being the 2nd most popular character in the game, debuting in the game that Brought Sonic to Nintendo audiences, as well as him being the favorite character of the current head of Sonic Team (or Studio as they liked to be called now i think), Along with the fact he's been very popular when it comes to Requests for Smash, it be foolish to go ahead and leave him out of the conversation

And yes he has Similarities to Sonic, enough to theoretically be an Echo, but he has the abilities to stand on his own not just from Sonic, but the rest of the cast, and it's not like Shadow doesn't have the merits to stand on his own accord also. I feel like if people remember that Shadow is a comparable character to Sephiroth and Chun-Li in terms of Popularity and Appeal and Recognizability that I think people wouldn't just demote him to Echo Fodder

This is a similar case to Isabelle, in which she was demoted to Echo Fodder by the community. The reason she's on the roster is because she had the Merits on her own to be on the roster, and it's the same case with Shadow

Shadow did not get into the Base roster...but so didn't Sephiroth, who had to wait till FP2 to be included in the roster. Just because Shadow missed the boat on the base roster, or Shadow wasn't included as an echo, doesn't mean he died or anything like that, it doesn't mean that Ayumi Tachibana has more reason to be included than Shadow the Hedgehog.

These hindrances that Shadow faces are not the big deal that people make it out to be. If you think Eggman, Tails, or even Knuckles has a better shot, that's fine by me. If you think we won't get Assist promotions because they are Assists, I don't agree, but I'm not gonna argue it right now. In any case, Shadow should not be seen as less likely than Ayumi under any circumstances as of right now

 

[Gnateb]

I've read the the topic before, and yeah it is interesting. I personally liked the theory.

Personally, I don't think either would be the characters, but I'm not gonna count it out though, as I could see reasons for each franchise to be picked for Smash DLC, especially Dark Souls. As for Diablo being too satanic since he is supposed to be Satan, I will say the Kids these days can be more edgy, and I don't think they'll heavily tie religion to it, so it should be fine

Thank you.

Yeah, I'm definitely not counting on either getting characters specifically, but I think content in general is plausible. Especially for Dark Souls. I'm feeling pretty good about Dark Souls' chances to get into the game in some form, albeit maybe not as a full-fledged character.

 

[SharkLord]

Y'know, more than anything I'm realizing the question of Ayumi vs. Shadow is just weirdly specific. They're owned by different companies, they have different aesthetics, they're from different genres, and they're overall in much different situations. I think the real question here is why we're debating Ayumi and Shadow specifically, and not something like Shadow vs. another Sega character or Ayumi vs another region-centric character.

 

[N3ON]

Actually I think Ayumi should be given less credit than even you are giving her, as explained above, The fact that her franchise is now just coming out of hiatus, and the games themselves haven't come out yet, means that Nintendo doesn't have the data to be confident in putting Ayumi as DLC. Corrin, Byleth, Min Min, and Pyra/Mythra got in after their Franchises/Games already showed that they were success that can be promoted, or at least the franchise is a success. It also doesn't help that Visual Novels are kind of a niche genre in itself.

I don't like to disregard characters too much, as I like to respects people's opinions and thoughts, but The fact that I'm seeing Ayumi be seen as more likely, from some of the same people that says Assist aren't 100% deconfirms, but it depends on the actual character being promoted, kills me inside, and just stress why I'm on the Shadow Agenda, Because I try to put respect on Shadow's Name, and give an actual realistic look into the character's chances that people want to disregard for any other reasons

Ayumi in her current state should not be seen more likely than Shadow the Damn Hedgehog, if you're trying to be accurate with your guesses. the Hindrances (besides the Assist) that Shadow faces are competition with other Sonic characters and people looking at Shadow as Echo Fodder

Eggman and Tails have their reasons to be in Over Shadow, but they aren't so above him that Shadow shouldn't be factored into the equation at all. Between him being the 2nd most popular character in the game, debuting in the game that Brought Sonic to Nintendo audiences, as well as him being the favorite character of the current head of Sonic Team (or Studio as they liked to be called now i think), Along with the fact he's been very popular when it comes to Requests for Smash, it be foolish to go ahead and leave him out of the conversation

And yes he has Similarities to Sonic, enough to theoretically be an Echo, but he has the abilities to stand on his own not just from Sonic, but the rest of the cast, and it's not like Shadow doesn't have the merits to stand on his own accord also. I feel like if people remember that Shadow is a comparable character to Sephiroth and Chun-Li in terms of Popularity and Appeal and Recognizability that I think people wouldn't just demote him to Echo Fodder

This is a similar case to Isabelle, in which she was demoted to Echo Fodder by the community. The reason she's on the roster is because she had the Merits on her own to be on the roster, and it's the same case with Shadow

Shadow did not get into the Base roster...but so didn't Sephiroth, who had to wait till FP2 to be included in the roster. Just because Shadow missed the boat on the base roster, or Shadow wasn't included as an echo, doesn't mean he died or anything like that, it doesn't mean that Ayumi Tachibana has more reason to be included than Shadow the Hedgehog.

These hindrances that Shadow faces are not the big deal that people make it out to be. If you think Eggman, Tails, or even Knuckles has a better shot, that's fine by me. If you think we won't get Assist promotions because they are Assists, I don't agree, but I'm not gonna argue it right now. In any case, Shadow should not be seen as less likely than Ayumi under any circumstances as of right now

With all due respect, people are better off reaching their own conclusions about Shadow, because your perspective is going to cast him in a favourable light compared to almost anyone. And the reality of the situation is he's not in a very favourable situation, currently.

Y'know, more than anything I'm realizing the question of Ayumi vs. Shadow is just weirdly specific. They're owned by different companies, they have different aesthetics, they're from different genres, and they're overall in much different situations. I think the real question here is why we're debating Ayumi and Shadow specifically.

Ayumi because her games are coming out in a couple days, so people are talking about her.

And Shadow being grafted on to it is because... you know why.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Y'know, more than anything I'm realizing the question of Ayumi vs. Shadow is just weirdly specific. They're owned by different companies, they have different aesthetics, they're from different genres, and they're overall in much different situations. I think the real question here is why we're debating Ayumi and Shadow specifically.

Ayumi because she has a chance, Shadow because he doesn't.

Yes, this kind of thing has happened before...

 

[SharkLord]

Ayumi because she has a chance, Shadow because he doesn't.

Yes, this kind of thing has happened before...

...Yeah, think I might pass on history class today. Not sure if I really want to know the context here.

 

[ahemtoday]

Y'know, more than anything I'm realizing the question of Ayumi vs. Shadow is just weirdly specific. They're owned by different companies, they have different aesthetics, they're from different genres, and they're overall in much different situations. I think the real question here is why we're debating Ayumi and Shadow specifically, and not something like Shadow vs. another Sega character or Ayumi vs another region-centric character.

You're missing the biggest commonality between them: they're both gonna be revealed at E3 this year.

Yes, I am putting it all on black.

 

[Clumsyzephyr]

I've read the the topic before, and yeah it is interesting. I personally liked the theory.

Personally, I don't think either would be the characters, but I'm not gonna count it out though, as I could see reasons for each franchise to be picked for Smash DLC, especially Dark Souls. As for Diablo being too satanic since he is supposed to be Satan, I will say the Kids these days can be more edgy, and I don't think they'll heavily tie religion to it, so it should be fine



It's not just about the Recognizability.

When it comes to this specific scenario of Ayumi vs Shadow the Hedgehog, In my personal opinion, there is no reason for Ayumi to ever be in over Shadow, or at least any other Sonic character

Remember, Byleth and Pyra/Mythra were only added as DLC after their Franchises/Games had actual data to back up the success of their Franchises/games, and and Appeal to Nintendo's safety in approaching the DLC since they have actual data. Famicon Detective Club is now just coming out of hiatus, and there's no data to show how well the Remakes would do. On the other hand, We've seen Sonic games do well on Just Nintendo, and that's not also including other consoles, as well as Mobile, and other avenues of the Brand


Ayumi isn't a character that is Especially popular when it comes to Requests. She's an extreme Darkhorse in this regard. Meanwhile Shadow has been requested character for like a Decade now. I don't see Ayumi getting fan-made trailers, and Loads of Mods dedicated to her, unlike Shadow

Ayumi and Famicom Detective Club are not things many Casuals are gonna know, hell even many gamers aren't gonna know about it. While I don't think Shadow is as known as Eggman, Tails, & Knuckles when it comes to the Casuals, He's still a character I can still see Casuals recognizing, and even then if they saw a picture of him, they'd be able to know that it's from Sonic.

and even in Moveset potential and such, It's much easier to make a Moveset concept for Shadow than it is for Ayumi. I'm not saying Ayumi can't have a moveset concept, but it would probably take much more work to implement the feeling of her franchise and of the character into Smash because of the type of game she comes from, and unlike Phoenix who has a source of material to gauge from (UMVC3), Ayumi doesn't have any of that. Meanwhile Shadow has 2 Decades worth of content to use, including unused gamplay mechanics like the Boost and Light Speed dash, as well as the concept of his Chaos powers and Control over Time and Space.

Even including in the fact that Shadow is 3rd party, It's not like the 3rd party is a Company that's known for being hard to work with (see Activision as an example). Sega is very cooperative when it comes to Sonic as a brand in crossovers, as Sonic has been in the Smash series for 3 games now. Shadow has been in 3 games now



Actually I think Ayumi should be given less credit than even you are giving her, as explained above, The fact that her franchise is now just coming out of hiatus, and the games themselves haven't come out yet, means that Nintendo doesn't have the data to be confident in putting Ayumi as DLC. Corrin, Byleth, Min Min, and Pyra/Mythra got in after their Franchises/Games already showed that they were success that can be promoted, or at least the franchise is a success. It also doesn't help that Visual Novels are kind of a niche genre in itself.

I don't like to disregard characters too much, as I like to respects people's opinions and thoughts, but The fact that I'm seeing Ayumi be seen as more likely, from some of the same people that says Assist aren't 100% deconfirms, but it depends on the actual character being promoted, kills me inside, and just stress why I'm on the Shadow Agenda, Because I try to put respect on Shadow's Name, and give an actual realistic look into the character's chances that people want to disregard for any other reasons

Ayumi in her current state should not be seen more likely than Shadow the Damn Hedgehog, if you're trying to be accurate with your guesses. the Hindrances (besides the Assist) that Shadow faces are competition with other Sonic characters and people looking at Shadow as Echo Fodder

Eggman and Tails have their reasons to be in Over Shadow, but they aren't so above him that Shadow shouldn't be factored into the equation at all. Between him being the 2nd most popular character in the game, debuting in the game that Brought Sonic to Nintendo audiences, as well as him being the favorite character of the current head of Sonic Team (or Studio as they liked to be called now i think), Along with the fact he's been very popular when it comes to Requests for Smash, it be foolish to go ahead and leave him out of the conversation

And yes he has Similarities to Sonic, enough to theoretically be an Echo, but he has the abilities to stand on his own not just from Sonic, but the rest of the cast, and it's not like Shadow doesn't have the merits to stand on his own accord also. I feel like if people remember that Shadow is a comparable character to Sephiroth and Chun-Li in terms of Popularity and Appeal and Recognizability that I think people wouldn't just demote him to Echo Fodder

This is a similar case to Isabelle, in which she was demoted to Echo Fodder by the community. The reason she's on the roster is because she had the Merits on her own to be on the roster, and it's the same case with Shadow

Shadow did not get into the Base roster...but so didn't Sephiroth, who had to wait till FP2 to be included in the roster. Just because Shadow missed the boat on the base roster, or Shadow wasn't included as an echo, doesn't mean he died or anything like that, it doesn't mean that Ayumi Tachibana has more reason to be included than Shadow the Hedgehog.

These hindrances that Shadow faces are not the big deal that people make it out to be. If you think Eggman, Tails, or even Knuckles has a better shot, that's fine by me. If you think we won't get Assist promotions because they are Assists, I don't agree, but I'm not gonna argue it right now. In any case, Shadow should not be seen as less likely than Ayumi under any circumstances as of right now

I sense no biases here at all

 

[Gengar84]

Well, what about characters that aren't a part of the normal human species (such as Ganondorf, who is of the human subspecies known as Gerudo)?



Since Ridley's species is unknown, I came up with a theory where he's actually a human who mutated into that pteradactyl-dragon thing.

Ganondorf and Ridley count as nonhumans to me and are two of my favorite characters on the roster. I’ve mained Ganondorf since Melee until Sephiroth was released and I love Ganondorf’s design in this game. Still, I would like more characters in the same vein.

 

[ChunkySlugger72]

Also, their personalities are vastly different. Coco’s more the genius type and she actually talks full sentences. Crash is the brute type and only “speaks” in grunts so...

Coco is still somewhat expressive and cartoony herself, Grant it not to the extent of her brother, But I still think they can tone it down and make it work.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Well, what about characters that aren't a part of the normal human species (such as Ganondorf, who is of the human subspecies known as Gerudo)?



Since Ridley's species is unknown, I came up with a theory where he's actually a human who mutated into that pteradactyl-dragon thing.

Would androids/cyborgs count?

 

[Technomage]

Would androids/cyborgs count?

Androids, sure (though they aren't lifeforms). Cyborgs, not so much, since it doesn't change the cells in their bodies.

 

[Gengar84]

Would androids/cyborgs count?

It kind of depends for me. Characters like Fulgore and Cyrax definitely count but characters like Aigis and Kos-Mos are more questionable. I’d still definitely be happy with the latter but it wouldn’t fill the same quota to me.

 

[SharkLord]

It's not just about the Recognizability.

When it comes to this specific scenario of Ayumi vs Shadow the Hedgehog, In my personal opinion, there is no reason for Ayumi to ever be in over Shadow, or at least any other Sonic character

Remember, Byleth and Pyra/Mythra were only added as DLC after their Franchises/Games had actual data to back up the success of their Franchises/games, and and Appeal to Nintendo's safety in approaching the DLC since they have actual data. Famicon Detective Club is now just coming out of hiatus, and there's no data to show how well the Remakes would do. On the other hand, We've seen Sonic games do well on Just Nintendo, and that's not also including other consoles, as well as Mobile, and other avenues of the Brand


Ayumi isn't a character that is Especially popular when it comes to Requests. She's an extreme Darkhorse in this regard. Meanwhile Shadow has been requested character for like a Decade now. I don't see Ayumi getting fan-made trailers, and Loads of Mods dedicated to her, unlike Shadow

Ayumi and Famicom Detective Club are not things many Casuals are gonna know, hell even many gamers aren't gonna know about it. While I don't think Shadow is as known as Eggman, Tails, & Knuckles when it comes to the Casuals, He's still a character I can still see Casuals recognizing, and even then if they saw a picture of him, they'd be able to know that it's from Sonic.

and even in Moveset potential and such, It's much easier to make a Moveset concept for Shadow than it is for Ayumi. I'm not saying Ayumi can't have a moveset concept, but it would probably take much more work to implement the feeling of her franchise and of the character into Smash because of the type of game she comes from, and unlike Phoenix who has a source of material to gauge from (UMVC3), Ayumi doesn't have any of that. Meanwhile Shadow has 2 Decades worth of content to use, including unused gamplay mechanics like the Boost and Light Speed dash, as well as the concept of his Chaos powers and Control over Time and Space.

Even including in the fact that Shadow is 3rd party, It's not like the 3rd party is a Company that's known for being hard to work with (see Activision as an example). Sega is very cooperative when it comes to Sonic as a brand in crossovers, as Sonic has been in the Smash series for 3 games now. Shadow has been in 3 games now



Actually I think Ayumi should be given less credit than even you are giving her, as explained above, The fact that her franchise is now just coming out of hiatus, and the games themselves haven't come out yet, means that Nintendo doesn't have the data to be confident in putting Ayumi as DLC. Corrin, Byleth, Min Min, and Pyra/Mythra got in after their Franchises/Games already showed that they were success that can be promoted, or at least the franchise is a success. It also doesn't help that Visual Novels are kind of a niche genre in itself.

I don't like to disregard characters too much, as I like to respects people's opinions and thoughts, but The fact that I'm seeing Ayumi be seen as more likely, from some of the same people that says Assist aren't 100% deconfirms, but it depends on the actual character being promoted, kills me inside, and just stress why I'm on the Shadow Agenda, Because I try to put respect on Shadow's Name, and give an actual realistic look into the character's chances that people want to disregard for any other reasons

Ayumi in her current state should not be seen more likely than Shadow the Damn Hedgehog, if you're trying to be accurate with your guesses. the Hindrances (besides the Assist) that Shadow faces are competition with other Sonic characters and people looking at Shadow as Echo Fodder

Eggman and Tails have their reasons to be in Over Shadow, but they aren't so above him that Shadow shouldn't be factored into the equation at all. Between him being the 2nd most popular character in the game, debuting in the game that Brought Sonic to Nintendo audiences, as well as him being the favorite character of the current head of Sonic Team (or Studio as they liked to be called now i think), Along with the fact he's been very popular when it comes to Requests for Smash, it be foolish to go ahead and leave him out of the conversation

And yes he has Similarities to Sonic, enough to theoretically be an Echo, but he has the abilities to stand on his own not just from Sonic, but the rest of the cast, and it's not like Shadow doesn't have the merits to stand on his own accord also. I feel like if people remember that Shadow is a comparable character to Sephiroth and Chun-Li in terms of Popularity and Appeal and Recognizability that I think people wouldn't just demote him to Echo Fodder

This is a similar case to Isabelle, in which she was demoted to Echo Fodder by the community. The reason she's on the roster is because she had the Merits on her own to be on the roster, and it's the same case with Shadow

Shadow did not get into the Base roster...but so didn't Sephiroth, who had to wait till FP2 to be included in the roster. Just because Shadow missed the boat on the base roster, or Shadow wasn't included as an echo, doesn't mean he died or anything like that, it doesn't mean that Ayumi Tachibana has more reason to be included than Shadow the Hedgehog.

These hindrances that Shadow faces are not the big deal that people make it out to be. If you think Eggman, Tails, or even Knuckles has a better shot, that's fine by me. If you think we won't get Assist promotions because they are Assists, I don't agree, but I'm not gonna argue it right now. In any case, Shadow should not be seen as less likely than Ayumi under any circumstances as of right now

I can see why you'd be hesitant on a promo pick who was region-centric for the longest time. I'll admit, I'm taking quite a risk here, and I can see why others wouldn't really want to take that risk. But "moveset potential"? VNs inherently being less likely? That's... decidedly less solid evidence, especially the former. Nintendo's choosing the characters, not Sakurai, and I don't think they'd care very much about moveset potential. Not when they kept coming back to ask Sakurai to add Steve Minecraft over and over again.

I'll also say that it's kinda hard to just say "(X) has a better shot than (Y) in all circumstances" when there isn't an end-all be-all criteria. Let's say Nintendo wants someone big and recognizable. In this scenario, then yes, Shadow is more likely. On the other hand, what if Nintendo wants to promote an upcoming release. Based on past precedent with the promo picks, a first-party like Ayumi is more likely. It's not black-and-white like that.

And as some constructive criticism, try to make your posts more concise. Most people are used to reading posts that are about three paragraphs at the most. When your replies go on for about five paragraphs, people tend to feel daunted, and glaze over the really long post unless it's a neutral, informative post and not an argumentative one. Basically, less is more and shorter posts get the point across more easily.

 

[SpectreJordan]

Well then, I'm obligated to move on to a Crash discussion. Let's see:

If E3 is a double reveal, Crash is one of those reveals, and the other character is an Activision-Blizzard character, who would make a great fit? My ideas:

Coco
Spyro
Call of Duty
Guitar Hero
Pitfall Harry
Tracer (though maybe Winston could fit too, since he'd be the first monkey fighter who can actually talk)
Warcraft
The Devil
Kerrigan

Tracer would be my pick out of these. It’s not in the best shape rn, but Overwatch is one of my favorite games ever. I had so much fun with it during its height, it became my second most played game ever.

I’d say a Warcraft rep would be more deserved though. The impact WOW had on gaming & the world is legendary.

 

[Dukefire]

With E3 coming back on June 12 after 2020's pandemic, it will be three years since the first Smash Ultimate presentation back in 2018

 

[Gengar84]

Tracer would be my pick out of these. It’s not in the best shape rn, but Overwatch is one of my favorite games ever. I had so much fun with it during its height, it became my second most played game ever.

I’d say a Warcraft rep would be more deserved though. The impact WOW had on gaming & the world is legendary.

Overwatch looks like a ton of fun. Unfortunately, I’m terrible at competitive games so that kept me from trying it. If it had a campaign or local co-op mode, I probably would have.

Tracer is cool but she wouldn’t be one of my top picks for the reasons stated above. Blizzard has some of the best nonhuman designs in all of gaming so I’d love if a character like that was represented. Kerrigan is an exception who is technically human but different enough to really stand out. That and I think Kerrigan is the best choice if you want to represent RTS mechanics.

I agree about Warcraft though. It has had a huge impact on gaming history and I feel like it is the most deserving out of Blizzard’s franchises. The one disadvantage it has is that it is the only major Blizzard IP that has never been on a Nintendo console. Even so, Illidan is among my favorite gaming characters ever and my most wanted Blizzard character.

 

[BernkastelWitch]

If we somehow get a Blizzard rep, I feel like a Warcraft rep would be fun to see, mostly due to how influential WoW is and even the original RTS games. Though personally I'd pick Diablo for the Blizzard series of choice. I don't remember how long ago this was but I remember one of the devs in Blizzard said if they wanted someone to rep their company, it'd be Diablo himself. It's been a while and I may be remembering it wrong but it is something.

Overwatch would be neat but I prefer a more classic Blizzard franchise if we had to pick one for Smash.

 

[cashregister9]

Overwatch looks like a ton of fun. Unfortunately, I’m terrible at competitive games so that kept me from trying it. If it had a campaign or local co-op mode, I probably would have.

Tracer is cool but she wouldn’t be one of my top picks for the reasons stated above. Blizzard has some of the best nonhuman designs in all of gaming so I’d love if a character like that was represented. Kerrigan is an exception who is technically human but different enough to really stand out. That and I think Kerrigan is the best choice if you want to represent RTS mechanics.

Hell Even a lot of Blizzard's Human Designs are fantastic just look at 90% of the Overwatch cast and also a lot of Stand out characters like Arthas. and if we streatch human to Humanoid then Tyrael, Illidan as you said Kerrigan just to say the least.

 

[Shroob]

With E3 coming back on June 12 after 2020's pandemic, it will be three years since the first Smash Ultimate presentation back in 2018

We've come soo far

Soo many new, interesting characters and franchises


And thank god it's nearly over