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Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

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Rie Sonomura

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Hey uh thinking about what A Ayumi Tachibana said the other day about Apex’s popularity in Japan, and the Apex rumor 7NATOR 7NATOR mentioned

should I maybe make a Wraith/Apex Legends Characters in Smash support thread? I wanna default to Wraith as she’s the poster girl but I guess I wanna give everyone a chance like with the LoL thread

I do also have Apex on my switch but haven’t gotten around to doing much with it idk how even to navigate the switch interface rip,, but I do wanna learn more about the characters and how they’d translate to smash
 

chocolatejr9

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Hey uh thinking about what A Ayumi Tachibana said the other day about Apex’s popularity in Japan, and the Apex rumor 7NATOR 7NATOR mentioned

should I maybe make a Wraith/Apex Legends Characters in Smash support thread? I wanna default to Wraith as she’s the poster girl but I guess I wanna give everyone a chance like with the LoL thread

I do also have Apex on my switch but haven’t gotten around to doing much with it idk how even to navigate the switch interface rip,, but I do wanna learn more about the characters and how they’d translate to smash
It might be helpful for people like me who know literally NOTHING about Apex Legends...

Also, for anybody who cares, today's my birthday.
 

UltimateCyborgOverlord

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It might be helpful for people like me who know literally NOTHING about Apex Legends...

Also, for anybody who cares, today's my birthday.

I also know nothing about Apex Legends... actually I hear the word "Apex" and think of gorillas... like "Ape X". I'm pretty sure it isn't a game about legendary mutant gorillas, though now I want that game.


But it's your BIRTHDAY today! Happy Birthday hahahaahaha I thought I was cool, and I still am, but I'm not THAT cool, not today! YOU'RE the birthday boy today! Go get some cake and ice creaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaam! Maybe a PIZZA too! Shoot, I may order a pizza tonight, just because I'm cool. MAKE IT A PIZZA PARTY FOR THE BIRTHDAY BOYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
 

chocolatejr9

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But it's your BIRTHDAY today! Happy Birthday hahahaahaha I thought I was cool, and I still am, but I'm not THAT cool, not today! YOU'RE the birthday boy today! Go get some cake and ice creaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaam! Maybe a PIZZA too! Shoot, I may order a pizza tonight, just because I'm cool. MAKE IT A PIZZA PARTY FOR THE BIRTHDAY BOYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
For some reason, when I read this, the first thing that came to mind was FNAF.

I've been looking up the lore too much, huh?
 

RileyXY1

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As for Apex Legends, it came out after Ultimate's release, and it didn't come to the Switch until two months ago. It might be too new in terms of third parties when it comes to Smash speculation, especially considering that EA is a whole new company when it comes to Smash, with zero representation in Smash right now.
 

UltimateCyborgOverlord

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For some reason, when I read this, the first thing that came to mind was FNAF.

I've been looking up the lore too much, huh?
We'll have a birthday party at Freddy's! First you take a bite out of your pizza, then take a bite out of your cake and ice cream... then we'll take a bite out of YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!
 

SharkLord

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That was a really good writeup Pacack, and I think it's a good sort of reality check. I believe that thinking outside the box is a good thing to, but I find it's usually the most comfortable just a little bit outside that box rather than all the way on the other side of the room, yknow?

In any case, I wanted to use this part as a springboard for something else I've been thinking about - mainly how for some series, sales aren't telling the full picture. At risk of sounding like I'm trying to shift the conversation toward my MW (bear with me, it's just an example I'm particularly familiar with), one thing that particularly brought this to my attention was an interview with Puyo Puyo's producer Mizuki Hosoyamada:

https://twitter.com/gosokkyu/status/1172369224280395776?s=20

"it doesn't necessarily correlate to game sales but, according to Hosoyamada, Puyo Puyo has bigger brand awareness across more demographics/generations in Japan than any other Sega brand—like, overwhelmingly so, in the same ballpark as Sanrio, Nintendo, etc "

Meanwhile, Puyo Puyo has only about 25 million in sales, which includes Puyo Puyo Quest on mobile I believe - which puts it at Sega's second best selling series. Nothing to scoff at, but it's a far cry from the sales of Sega's obvious darling Sonic the Hedgehog. So it's a bit of a headscratcher, at first glance, how a series could underperform pretty drastically compared to Sonic and still apparently be bigger across these demographics.

Now from what I've gathered from a Japanese friend of mine, brands in Japan often rise to popularity through merchandise and general iconography. Cartoon characters, for example, make their way to Japan and will get some airtime, but will often make the biggest impact as say, a fashion statement. Like, I don't know how many people in Japan watch Spongebob, but he's still a highly marketable figure. You could probably make a similar case for Puyo's cutesy characters and the Puyo themselves: another friend of mine once brought Puyo gummies over from Japan, I'd expect a lot of that sort of thing.

And then of course you have the fact that Puyo Puyo got its greatest push in arcades, Puyo Tsu being toe to toe with Street Fighter II in Japanese arcades back in the 90s. That definitely helps spread notoriety that may not be properly reflected through sales numbers, and it seems like a good segue for exploring this for a series more familiar to Smash Bros.

---- Nerdy Puyo rambling ends here

Ryu and Mega Man are, undoubtedly, Capcom's biggest stars. That's the reason they're here. But as Pacack's sales reports show, Street Fighter's lifetime sales clock in at around 45 million and Mega Man's at 36 million. Meanwhile Monster Hunter and Resident Evil triumph over these two series, practically doubling their sales numbers... granted, I think Rathalos and Jill Valentine are plenty iconic in their own right, but it's hard to stack up to the likes of Capcom's two golden boys.

But anyway, it's really Mega Man's strong mascot marketability and Street Fighter's deep history on arcades that have propelled them to outright gaming legend status. SFII was an absolute phenomenon and it's telling that it's the game that has gotten an overwhelming amount of attention in Smash (to my chagrin - give me Third Strike content!). And Mega Man's success is fairly moderate compared to some other gaming mascots present in Smash, but as effectively Capcom's mascot he's made the rounds as quite the instantly recognizable and easily marketable figure in his own right. Despite what the sales may tell you, these two are almost certainly the characters that the most people are familiar with. Except maybe Monster Hunter nowadays, which has reached a monumental cultural status in Japan... but even so, we've got Rathalos too.

This extends toward Terry as well, but to a bit more of an extreme. Fatal Fury / King of Fighters obviously isn't as massive as the former two, but it's undoubtedly an important part of gaming / arcade history in its own right. I suppose this is an instance where Terry's history precedes him, he certainly has the merit from a legacy standpoint regardless of whether his games sold tremendously well on consoles or even whether or not he's a very recognizable character outside of a specific circle. I think Terry is a very fascinating case in general because it's kind of hard to put him on the same level as most of the others we've seen but he feels right at home regardless.

And while it's a bit of a special case, I would compare Mega Man to the likes of Kirby. Obviously different because Kirby isn't a third party, but more like... Kirby games don't really sell gangbusters or anything, but EVERYONE knows Kirby. He's probably one of the most easily marketable character designs ever, and his appeal and merchandise is what propelled him to being one of the most iconic video game characters out there. Well, that and Smash I presume, but that's another story.

Damn, sorry for the tangent. Just thought this was an interesting idea to explore. I mentioned Puyo Puyo already, but you guys think there are any other significant potential series that could join where the sales don't always tell the full picture?
Going back to this because it's an interesting concept, I think Ys could count too, at least for speculation. One of the earliest JRPGs and action-RPGs, still going to this day, and the company made the first true ARPGs in Dragon Slayer, heavily influenced computer gaming and music in games, and has the bonus of being one of the oldest video game companies still around. When you lay it all out like that, you'd expect Ys to be in league with at least classics like Mega Man, right?

1620142113908.png

...Yeah, about that...
 
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UltimateCyborgOverlord

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Granted it’s understood it’ll mostly be Sony, Microsoft and PC gaming but I wouldn’t be surprised if Nintendo had some stuff up their sleeve this week too
Hopefully something Sonic :)

Also could be something Zelda too. Just a little nugget or so.


The holy grail would be the surprise appearance of Fighter 10, but I'd be VERY surprised if THAT shows up.
 
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JOJONumber691

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Hopefully something Sonic :)

Also could be something Zelda too. Just a little nugget or so.


The holy grail would be the surprise appearance of Fighter 10, but I'd be VERY surprised if THAT shows up.
I'm thinking if Nintendo has anything, it's probably a Zelda 35th Direct similar to what Mario got, with the main reveals being ports of Windwaker HD and Twilight Princess HD for $30 separate on the eShop, but with a Physical and Digital Bundle for $60. Alongside some new Merch and maybe a Teaser Trailer for BotW2.
 

SKX31

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As long as a character can be used as a proxy for a series' gameplay, they're probably fine IMO. Villager, Game & Watch and Steve are mostly there to do that, aren't they?
I gotta ask: is this a proxy for Minecraft combat?



:4pacman: The clip in question is amazing since the two players went at this for 10+ seconds straight. One of the commentators even called it "Top 10 anime battles".


Going back to this because it's an interesting concept, I think Ys could count too, at least for speculation. One of the earliest JRPGs and action-RPGs, still going to this day, and the company made the first true ARPGs in Dragon Slayer, heavily influenced computer gaming, and music in games, plus the bonus of being one of the oldest video game companies still around. When you lay it all out like that, you'd expect Ys to be in league with at least classics like Mega Man, right?

View attachment 313751
...Yeah, about that...
Kinda wonder if it's due to Ys being consistently somewhat niché in Japan, shifting between different consoles and licensee companies as well as piracy (specifically with the earlier games)? The sales figures would imply that since - AFAIK - Ys has not had a million seller just yet. Although it seems to have gotten a consistent playerbase to keep things going.
 
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UltimateCyborgOverlord

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I'm thinking if Nintendo has anything, it's probably a Zelda 35th Direct similar to what Mario got, with the main reveals being ports of Windwaker HD and Twilight Princess HD for $30 separate on the eShop, but with a Physical and Digital Bundle for $60. Alongside some new Merch and maybe a Teaser Trailer for BotW2.
Could also poop out something about Age of Calamity DLC too.
 

SharkLord

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I gotta ask: is this a proxy for Minecraft combat?



:4pacman: The clip in question is amazing since the two players went at this for 10+ seconds straight. One of the commentators even called it "Top 10 anime battles".




Kinda wonder if it's due to Ys being consistently somewhat niché in Japan, shifting between different consoles and licensee companies as well as piracy (specifically with the earlier games)? The sales figures would imply that since - AFAIK - Ys has not had a million seller just yet. Although it seems to have gotten a consistent playerbase to keep things going.
I think it's also because Japan isn't as focused on getting million-sellers, and they especially weren't back with 80's computer games. After that, Falcom suffered a major brain-drain starting with Ys V, which was criticized for changing too much in a bad way, not the least of which being a shift to the Super Famicom and alienating the PC fanbase. They were stuck churning out remakes for a while, and when they finally started getting back on their feet with Ys VI and Trails in the Sky, they had to work to get back where they were, and by then the industry had moved forward quite a bit too. Most notably, the decline of PC gaming, causing Falcom to shift their attention to the PlayStation. All this, and they didn't have a consistent publisher and localizer for the longest time.

I think the bottom line is that Falcom's growth was stunted, largely because of the mid-90's exodus, and so they haven't grown in the way their contemporaries (Most notably Square and Enix, now a single company) have.
 
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Hydreigonfan01

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Hopefully something Sonic :)

Also could be something Zelda too. Just a little nugget or so.


The holy grail would be the surprise appearance of Fighter 10, but I'd be VERY surprised if THAT shows up.
My guess is Age of Calamity DLC content and some Mario Golf. That's about it though. The rest would be served for E3.
 

Rie Sonomura

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My guess is Age of Calamity DLC content and some Mario Golf. That's about it though. The rest would be served for E3.
Don’t they usually do NSO updates every quarter of the fiscal year too? A new fiscal year started after all
 

SNEKeater

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This has popped up recently. In case anyone doesn't know, the Epic Games vs Apple trial has brought some interesting documents to the light, like Samus being at least considered for Fortnite, among other things.



I thought it was interesting to share. And well, I know someone was going to share it sooner or later, because I know people will understand this as a death sentence for Kiryu in Smash.
 

Rie Sonomura

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This has popped up recently. In case anyone doesn't know, the Epic Games vs Apple trial has brought some interesting documents to the light, like Samus being at least considered for Fortnite, among other things.



I thought it was interesting to share. And well, I know someone was going to share it sooner or later, because I know people will understand this as a death sentence for Kiryu in Smash.
So I guess that Inkling in Fortnite data mine or whatever was from something we can now safely assume is cancelled?
 

PeridotGX

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How speculators predict who gets in: a long checklist of variables subtly raising or lowering the chances a character gets in

How characters actually get in: Sakurai thinks "wow wouldn't it be cool if this guy was in" and does it.
I gotta ask: is this a proxy for Minecraft combat?



:4pacman: The clip in question is amazing since the two players went at this for 10+ seconds straight. One of the commentators even called it "Top 10 anime battles".




Kinda wonder if it's due to Ys being consistently somewhat niché in Japan, shifting between different consoles and licensee companies as well as piracy (specifically with the earlier games)? The sales figures would imply that since - AFAIK - Ys has not had a million seller just yet. Although it seems to have gotten a consistent playerbase to keep things going.
Why didn't either player use End Crystal combat? Poor strategy.
 

Rie Sonomura

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This has popped up recently. In case anyone doesn't know, the Epic Games vs Apple trial has brought some interesting documents to the light, like Samus being at least considered for Fortnite, among other things.



I thought it was interesting to share. And well, I know someone was going to share it sooner or later, because I know people will understand this as a death sentence for Kiryu in Smash.
Wait actually I remembered something. Does (or did) Konami have ties to the Yakuza at one point? I remember reading something like that in 2015/2016 when they were being a peak awful company (let’s just say the pachinko fever was the tip of the iceberg)
 

3BitSaurus

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Huh, anti-Yakuza rules? Damn, I guess Kiryu- :4pacman:

I thought it was interesting to share. And well, I know someone was going to share it sooner or later, because I know people will understand this as a death sentence for Kiryu in Smash.
...****, at least give me enough time to make the joke, man.
 

Cutie Gwen

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And well, I know someone was going to share it sooner or later, because I know people will understand this as a death sentence for Kiryu in Smash.
It's so funny that Kiryu specifically gets this treatment a lot with people claiming he's deconfirmed because of a Tekken statement and how Nagoshi hates Nintendo because he said Nintendo's generally popular with kids. Like, damn, why Kiryu specifically?
 

SharkLord

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This has popped up recently. In case anyone doesn't know, the Epic Games vs Apple trial has brought some interesting documents to the light, like Samus being at least considered for Fortnite, among other things.



I thought it was interesting to share. And well, I know someone was going to share it sooner or later, because I know people will understand this as a death sentence for Kiryu in Smash.
So, based on the tweet I'd assume it's just standard? Besides, Yakuza itself is just a depiction of organized crime. It doesn't mean Sega has actual ties to the yakuza, right?

Right?
 
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Gengar84

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Does anyone else want any characters in Smash purely because they look cool even if you never played their game? I’m not sure if that makes me shallow but one of the main factors in my hype of a character is what they look like. Ideally I’d want a cool character from a game I enjoy but I’d rather have the cool character over a rep from a game I liked if I had to choose.

Some examples of characters I’d love to see purely based on their design are Susanoo (Blazblue), Medusa (Kid Icarus) and Kha’Zix (League of Legends). I’ve never played any of those games but I love all of their designs so I would still be hyped for their inclusion.
 
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BernkastelWitch

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So, based on the tweet I'd assume it's just standard? Besides, Yakuza itself is just a depiction of organized crime. It doesn't mean Sega has actual ties to the yakuza, right?

Right?
You say this and then the next day you get a knock on the door.... You find out Kazuma Kiryu isn't just a video game character but a real person. Look out.
 
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