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Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

ahemtoday

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 30, 2020
Messages
544
Maybe there's a rule of one question per post, and you must wait for 2-3 people to ask their questions before you can ask another. The number could also be subtracted if someone posts a moveset/stage/tracklist/etc. idea without a prompt from a question.
Sounds good. While it came across as a lot of overhead at first, I don't think this is the sort of thing you actually need to enforce very often. You just tell people about it, and they'll just, like, do it. I've never seen anyone nominate a character for rerating on RTC too soon after being rated, and I didn't even know it was a rule until now. So I think this would work out naturally.
 

SharkLord

Smash Hero
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Pangaea, 250 MYA
Sounds good. While it came across as a lot of overhead at first, I don't think this is the sort of thing you actually need to enforce very often. You just tell people about it, and they'll just, like, do it. I've never seen anyone nominate a character for rerating on RTC too soon after being rated, and I didn't even know it was a rule until now. So I think this would work out naturally.
As an amendment, I think we should also allow responses to gameplay pitches (Movesets, stages, Spirits, etc.) to be exempt from the question limits; Those would only apply to questions that start the conversation. In addition, responses to the answers should be fine if they're continuing that topic. However, you can't say "Another question, so-and-so..." unless you've waited the required time before posting.
 

Gnateb

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 20, 2021
Messages
233
Having a lot of bosses makes sense for a Dark Souls stage, because I gather it's a very boss-oriented game; but I wonder if five bosses is a realistic amount. Then again, KOF Stadium had twenty cameo characters with a couple of animations each. Five bosses with, say, three attacks each and actual gameplay relevance might come out to the same amount of work in the end.
Yeah, I don't think 5 bosses with only like 3 moves would be too bad. Like you said, look at KoF, and look at Minecraft World. The background if Yggdrasil's altar is also very detailed.

Since my moveset concept for Chosen Undead revolves around bonfires, the bonfires on the Lordran stage would allow them to interact like they would with one on any other stage, in addition to changing areas.

A bonus to having pre-made these boss fights is that Chosen Undead's classic mode is basically already done, lol.

Gwyn would be weak to Chosen's parry special, because lore.
 
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Gengar84

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 9, 2009
Messages
744
Honestly, I was thinking a nomination system for the exploration thread as well. I know I said just copying over the RTC structure wouldn't work, but that's mostly because we wouldn't be rating things. A nomination system, in addition to just being a way to decide what characters get discussed next, is also a good way to encourage the kinds of conversation we want to see in the thread. You see this with how RTC rewards people who give more in-depth rating explanations, and we could theoretically use it to encourage questions, answers, and/or movesets if we come up with the right rules.
I think this is a great idea. The only issue I see is that more obscure characters might not ever get enough votes to get nominated. I don’t foresee many people voting for a character they’ve never heard of and part of the fun is getting to share characters you are passionate about and getting the chance to educate people that aren’t familiar with them. I may just be worrying too much about nothing and it could all work out fine in the end.
 

SharkLord

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Pangaea, 250 MYA
I think this is a great idea. The only issue I see is that more obscure characters might not ever get enough votes to get nominated. I don’t foresee many people voting for a character they’ve never heard of and part of the fun is getting to share characters you are passionate about and getting the chance to educate people that aren’t familiar with them. I may just be worrying too much about nothing and it could all work out fine in the end.
To be fair, RTC gets some pretty obscure characters because people just stuck with it for a while until their characters hit the rating list. If we're generous enough with the noms, it shouldn't be too bad.
 
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Arcanir

An old friend evolved
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I really wish they would have added more bosses in this game. We only have four from videogames other than Smash (Marx, Dracula, Rathalos and Ganon). Not even a true Mario boss.
For Pokémon, that would have been the best occasion to give an important role to gen 5, it's the only generation that, not matter how you justify it, is not represented (some would say the Pkmn Trainer represented the third generation). Zekrom would have been cool for example.
Metroid also has tons of giant enemies. Or Star Fox with Andross.

Or, if that was difficult, at least diversity in the bonus stage. Why is it ALWAYS the same course?
I honestly would say Gen 5 got off better then Gen 3. For the latter it's only 'representation' is designs for Red and Leaf, but none of its Pokemon were chosen as playable characters nor did it get any stages. Gen 5 has a stage based on its most iconic moment in the game with two of its major faces showing up as hazards, which represents it rather well. If anything what Gen 5 lacks (outside of a character) is music, but the Pokemon OST is pretty limited overall as a number of beloved tracks are missing from most generations.

In terms of bosses though, I do agree it would've been nice to have gotten more. I understand that it probably wasn't feasible with the limited resources they had, but having something like Kraid or a repurposed Dr. Wily would've been good to see.
 
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DarthEnderX

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 10, 2014
Messages
4,949
I got a new topic: Since SOOOOOOO many characters' Classic Mode bosses are the Hands (which everyone's been getting tired of), if there were an Ultimate Deluxe or even an update to Ultimate where some chars' bosses are changed, what changes would you make to the Classic routes?
I'd add...
Mother Brain [Metroid]
Andross(N64 version) [Star Fox]
Arceus [Pokemon]
Porky [Earthbound]
Medusa [Kid Icarus]
Liquid Snake piloting Metal Gear REX [Metal Gear]
Eggman piloting Death Egg Robot [Sonic the Hedgehog]
Wily Machine piloted by Dr. Wily[Mega Man]
Safer∙Sephiroth [Final Fantasy]
 

Gnateb

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 20, 2021
Messages
233
Oh yeah, Gwyn could save Chosen Undead's classic mode from Hand Hell.
 

jadetheseer

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 26, 2021
Messages
49
I was just thinking about it and imagine how much of a giant curveball it’d be if we got Zero as one of the last DLC characters. A lot of people are thinking that we wouldn’t get a CAPCOM character bc of the Mii costumes, but even if we did nobody would expect another Mega Man character. I would be all for it especially for the Mega Man X music that we have a huge lack of but I feel like a lot of people would be really upset about it.

(honestly I just want another CAPCOM character idc who it is there’s just so many good choices)
I literally just somehow remembered Zero is already an assist trophy. Merp.

but seriously next time Zero, Alucard and Knuckles should all be characters they’re too cool not to
 

Dan Quixote

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Messages
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Florida
Hey if we're talking about possible bosses to add to Smash, I actually made a list of ones I'd be interested in seeing like two years ago. Might as well share it here to see what people think.

Donkey Kong (the original, from the arcade game)
Kaptain K. Rool
Blast-o-Matic (would be more of a Master Fortress situation)
Mother Brain
Queen Metroid
Omega Ridley
Baby Bowser
Andross
Articuno, Zapdos, & Moltres (I just want a triple boss in some way)
Ho-Oh
Deoxys
Giratina
Arceus
Zygarde
Mega Diancie
Black Shadow
Sirius
Black Knight
Octopus (from the Game & Watch)
Medusa
Hades
Liquid Snake
The Boss
Dr. Eggman
Empress Bulblax
Proto Man
Dr. Wily
Super Macho Man
Metal Face
M. Bison
Akuma
Dark Emperor
Dr. Kawashima (probably more puzzle-based than just hitting his face)
 

PeridotGX

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Yeah, they could just go with the BF and FD versions of each stage; no need to make more variety for those guys (which they would most likely hate, anyways).
We aren't even taking the oppertunity we were given. There could be a massive legal stagelist, but it's pretty much just Battlefield, FD, Pokemon Stadium, and Animal Crossing.

I'm really sorry to sound like a broken record, but PMEX has a really good stagelist. Most of the new stages have good layouts, and if there's a hazard it isn't too obtrusive.
 

SNEKeater

Smash Champion
Joined
Sep 4, 2019
Messages
2,664
Well, maybe Zero's MMZ incarnation getting in could work as a loophole?
If we go with the lore, it would be still kinda weird
because as far as I know (I've only played the first Zero game which I finished recently) MMZ Zero is the same one as the X series, the thing is that his memory isn't complete and doesn't remember everything what happened before.

So even if he looks and fights differently, MMZ Zero is supposed to be the same Zero that fought with Mega Man X. In that sense, if having 2 Zeros is a problem, having MMX Zero and MMZ Zero would be visually less confusing, of course, but they're technically the same person.

Not that Smash always cares about canon, consistency and all, but at that point I'd go with classic Zero to be honest because either way it would be kinda weird lore-wise. MMX Zero is the most well known incarnation of the character, even if the MMZ version is super cool. I'd personally prefer classic Zero.
 
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jadetheseer

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 26, 2021
Messages
49
If we go with the lore, it would be still kinda weird
because as far as I know (I've only played the first Zero game which I finished recently) MMZ Zero is the same one as the X series, the thing is that his memory isn't complete and doesn't remember everything what happened before.

So even if he looks and fights differently, MMZ Zero is supposed to be the same Zero that fought with Mega Man X. In that sense, if having 2 Zeros ia s problem, having MMX Zero and MMZ Zero would be visually less confusing, of course, but they're technically the same person.

Not that Smash always cares about canon, consistency and all, but at that point I'd go with classic Zero to be honest because either way it would be kinda weird lore-wise. MMX Zero is the most well known incarnation of the character, even if the MMZ version is super cool. I'd personally prefer classic Zero.

I honestly don’t know anything about MMZ (all of the games outside of the classic and X series have sorta escaped me) but I was thinking that he’d be added in with both designs if he was a DLC character. Having just the MMZ would be weird, that glorious ponytail is at least twenty percent of why I want him.
 

Technomage

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 18, 2019
Messages
930
I honestly don’t know anything about MMZ (all of the games outside of the classic and X series have sorta escaped me) but I was thinking that he’d be added in with both designs if he was a DLC character. Having just the MMZ would be weird, that glorious ponytail is at least twenty percent of why I want him.
Okay, but doesn't he have that ponytail in both forms?
 

Professor Pumpkaboo

Lady Layton| Trap Queen♥
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If somehow Lloyd and Yuri get in, both as unique characters. I'd be very happy and eating popcorn at the sight of a salty trainwreck that would happen.
Id rather both sides be happy then one side being sad and the other rubbing it in
 

LiveStudioAudience

Smash Champion
Joined
Dec 1, 2019
Messages
2,204
I think plenty of people still care about SOR4, its just that the DLC for it has only recently been announced and within the context of Smash its facing some pretty decent competition within Sega franchises like Sonic, Arle, and Phantasy Star; thus is not always at the top of people's speculative lists.
 
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Messages
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I mean, I kinda don't really care much for Streets of Rage... but I'm also absolutely that guy though when it comes to SEGA stuff:

We talk about Sonic: IT'S GAME TIME!
Game Time.png




We talk about SEGA stuff that isn't Sonic... yawn
Sleep.png
 

chocolatejr9

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 30, 2018
Messages
4,768
In other news, Nintendo is, in fact, stingy with their IPs.


As if anybody doubted that...
 

cashregister9

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 4, 2020
Messages
2,968
In other news, Nintendo is, in fact, stingy with their IPs.


As if anybody doubted that...
there was also Naruto in that document...

The fate of the crossovers in that document is unknown just that they were discussed at some point.

I have no hope for the Samus one because it reminds me too much of Ultimate Alliance.

Looks like we’re getting a Zelda direct on Wednesday.

Source: Nintendo announced it
That was a fake account
 
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Rie Sonomura

always on the outside, through a window looking in
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In other news, Nintendo is, in fact, stingy with their IPs.


As if anybody doubted that...
It said “Snake Plissken” in that doc too so I can’t help but doubt

WHEN WAS HE EVER CALLED, WORD FOR WORD, “SNAKE PLISSKEN”?!
 

Speed Weed

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20210503_224618.png


Hey yall

Dude who's nuts about SoR here

And I can tell yall that Mr. X Nightmare is gonna be hype as ****. There's gonna be like, new levels and new characters and swordfishes and Tee Lopes and-

Yeah. Hype ****. Buy SoR4 please it is a very good game. Either that or buy the Mega Drive collection on Switch, it's got SoR2 which is one of my favorite games ever. it's also got Gunstar Heroes so all the more reason to buy it

Basically Streets of Rage is epic. Top-tier series of beat-em-ups, fun-ass gameplay, amazing music, incredible style and vibes

As for its prospects in Smash...hmmmmmm. Much as I'd love to see it, I'll admit I used to be way more optimistic about it but looking back, there's definitely a lot of SEGA series they'd rather pick IMO. Not just the big ones everyone talks about like Yakuza and Puyo, there's quite some darkhorses I think would still be higher priority just cause over there they seem to be more...celebrated, I guess? I dunno, man, from what I've seen, SEGA of Japan give off some hella mixed signals on whether or not they care about Streets of Rage so it's hard to tell
 

Icedragonadam

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It's Golden Week still. If they're going to announce semi big news soon, earliest is Thursday evening for the western time zone where it would be Friday Morning in Japan which is the 6th.
 

SneakyLink

Moderator
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That was a fake account
I saw, I removed my post to avoid confusion. Back to the daily discussion then.

On the Sega topic, other than Sonic, I don’t really have any attachment to their IPs. If I had to pick, I’d go with Asha from Monster World IV.
 

SKX31

Smash Champion
Joined
Feb 22, 2019
Messages
2,851
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Sweden
I was thinking of wacky ideas in the vein of Piranha Plant, and I've come to the conclusion that the last DLC character is just a Rupee. The embodiment of pay to win :4pacman:
I mean, given how economics is such a dysfunctional mess in the Zelda world:



It'd be kinda easy to grind that then. :4pacman:

If we go with the lore, it would be still kinda weird
because as far as I know (I've only played the first Zero game which I finished recently) MMZ Zero is the same one as the X series, the thing is that his memory isn't complete and doesn't remember everything what happened before.

So even if he looks and fights differently, MMZ Zero is supposed to be the same Zero that fought with Mega Man X. In that sense, if having 2 Zeros ia s problem, having MMX Zero and MMZ Zero would be visually less confusing, of course, but they're technically the same person.

Not that Smash always cares about canon, consistency and all, but at that point I'd go with classic Zero to be honest because either way it would be kinda weird lore-wise. MMX Zero is the most well known incarnation of the character, even if the MMZ version is super cool. I'd personally prefer classic Zero.
He is the same Zero - Zero 3 has an entire storyline revolving around well... what happened to his original body.

And yeah, Smash doesn't always give a hoot about canon - that said Zero-era Zero (that sounds weird) has some different weapons from X-era Zero. For one X-era relies much more on swinging the sabre and would presumably be much more of a rushdown heavy swordie, a combination of :ultlucina: / :ultchrom: and :ultcloud: (he does have a projectile as well as a giant blade beam, but it becomes more niché as the series goes on until X6 pretty much chucks that out of the window entirely). Regardless of whether he has Genmu Zero or not, X-era Zero's the kind of character who would want to get in and force mistakes.

Zero-era Zero however would have presumably access to the four game-specific weapons* in addition to his Sabre and the pistol he carries. I assume he'd play much more methodologically as a result: where he'd be much more able to mix up approaches and still kinda able to play rushdown, but not as focused around that and instead more based around knowing what to use where. Thinking a mix of :ultcorrin: and :ultpit: , plus his own spice.

*(Pretty sure that it'd be hellishly difficult to implement Zero 4's "grab-a-weapon" mechanic, but hey. at least three of them would come along.)

It said “Snake Plissken” in that doc too so I can’t help but doubt

WHEN WAS HE EVER CALLED, WORD FOR WORD, “SNAKE PLISSKEN”?!
For context: Snake Plissken is the main character of Escape from New York (+ its sequel, Escape From L.A.). Kurt Russell plays him:



That's where :ultsnake: got his name from IIRC. (Snake's codename in MGS 2, Iroquos Plissken, references this.)
 
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Pillow

Smash Lord
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Messages
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Los Angeles
If we go with the lore, it would be still kinda weird
because as far as I know (I've only played the first Zero game which I finished recently) MMZ Zero is the same one as the X series, the thing is that his memory isn't complete and doesn't remember everything what happened before.

So even if he looks and fights differently, MMZ Zero is supposed to be the same Zero that fought with Mega Man X. In that sense, if having 2 Zeros ia s problem, having MMX Zero and MMZ Zero would be visually less confusing, of course, but they're technically the same person.

Not that Smash always cares about canon, consistency and all, but at that point I'd go with classic Zero to be honest because either way it would be kinda weird lore-wise. MMX Zero is the most well known incarnation of the character, even if the MMZ version is super cool. I'd personally prefer classic Zero.
Personally I prefer the MMZ version just because I think the design looks sleeker. But yes, MMX version makes the most sense and is his most recognizable form and it is the same Zero just at different points of the same timeline.
 

Guynamednelson

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I literally just somehow remembered Zero is already an assist trophy. Merp.

but seriously next time Zero, Alucard and Knuckles should all be characters they’re too cool not to
Hey, that just means he's still a curveball.
 

ahemtoday

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 30, 2020
Messages
544
To follow up on the stagelist discussion from earlier, I've had this idea kicking around for a while that I wanted to share.

What if the next Smash game had... say, a group of five Smash-original stages. These stages would be called Special Stages, like in Melee - and they'd have skins for every other stage in the game, like Battlefield and Final Destination do now (except without jank like flattening, grass, and Steve's tools). The game's online multiplayer modes - at least, the ones meant to be competitive and skill-based - would use Special Stages and Special Stage variants as their stage list.

Effectively, it's like an "official" competitive stage list, but I don't want to come across like I'm dictating what all tournaments should use. It's just that I think it would benefit the game to have a list of stages for use in, say, the For Glory equivalent, or stock-based 1v1 tourneys. And if we're going to have stages like that, it'd make sense for them to be skinswappable like FD, and if two of them are going to be Smash original they might as well all be Smash original because it'd feel a little strange for an Animal Crossing stage and Kirby stage to be thrown in the mix.

Here's what I had in mind regarding the stages. Note that their names and aesthetics are a lot more set in my mind than their layouts are.
  • Final Destination: Obvious. Stage with no platforms. I wanted to give each stage a different theme color, so this version of FD is reddish somehow.
  • Battlefield: Also obvious. Y'all know its layout. Aesthetically, it's more like the Brawl version with green grassy hills.
  • Duel Zone: Our first new stage. Named after the Battlefield equivalent from 64, and aesthetically based on both that and Melee's Battlefield. In terms of layout, though, it's a successor to Small Battlefield.
  • Midair Stadium: Based on and named after the location from the beginning of the Subspace Emissary. It serves as the "big stage" of the five, and has a pillar that extends down to the bottom blast zone for wall-jumping. Its platforms switch between three states: a larger platform in the center; which splits into two narrower platforms that hang over the ledges like Northern Cave; part of the surfaces of which detatch and rise up to become two more platforms above those sort of like WarioWare. We don't have any stages whose layouts change, yet, and for such a big stage it makes sense for the platforms to change which part they cover.
  • Ancient Horizon: The only real stretch aesthetically, but it's a... relatively major location to Smash, I guess. This is based on the sunset cliff overlooking the ocean from the end of the Subspace Emissary and the beginning of World of Light. Y'know, with the big X in the sky where the Isle of the Ancients used to be. In terms of layout, this is our "small stage". The body of the stage extends all the way down to the bottom blast zone, It has one platform in the center, which appears and disappears periodically.
 

LiveStudioAudience

Smash Champion
Joined
Dec 1, 2019
Messages
2,204
View attachment 313672

Hey yall

Dude who's nuts about SoR here

And I can tell yall that Mr. X Nightmare is gonna be hype as ****. There's gonna be like, new levels and new characters and swordfishes and Tee Lopes and-

Yeah. Hype ****. Buy SoR4 please it is a very good game. Either that or buy the Mega Drive collection on Switch, it's got SoR2 which is one of my favorite games ever. it's also got Gunstar Heroes so all the more reason to buy it

Basically Streets of Rage is epic. Top-tier series of beat-em-ups, fun-ass gameplay, amazing music, incredible style and vibes

As for its prospects in Smash...hmmmmmm. Much as I'd love to see it, I'll admit I used to be way more optimistic about it but looking back, there's definitely a lot of SEGA series they'd rather pick IMO. Not just the big ones everyone talks about like Yakuza and Puyo, there's quite some darkhorses I think would still be higher priority just cause over there they seem to be more...celebrated, I guess? I dunno, man, from what I've seen, SEGA of Japan give off some hella mixed signals on whether or not they care about Streets of Rage so it's hard to tell
Also, download and play Streets of Rage Remake on your computer. Fantastic tribute to the series that's still got an active fan mod community to this day.

As far as Samus not being in Fortnite, I have to admit it does feel like a bit of wasted opportunity to not give greater exposure to a franchise that quite frankly could use getting some new players interested in it. Granted that would be easier if there was a game from the IP for current Nintendo console that wasn't the NES game or Super Metroid, but even still her being in Fortnite couldn't do anything worse to the franchise's image that Other M and Federation Force already haven't.
 
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N3ON

Devil's Avocado
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In other news, Nintendo is, in fact, stingy with their IPs.


As if anybody doubted that...
Not surprising. I can see why Nintendo wouldn't want this for many reasons, but later this year when Metroid comes back, having Samus in Fortnite would've helped foster a bigger audience for the games, even a little. Which Metroid could use.

The cost for us is just dying a little as you see her floss.

I have no hope for the Samus one because it reminds me too much of Ultimate Alliance. (IIRC Samus and Link were in Marvel Ultimate Alliance but were ultimately cut because the footage was taken on a PS2)
They added them to the game before they tried to acquire the license, and Nintendo, unsurprisingly, was Nintendo, so they had to remove them.
 

Will

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In other news, Nintendo is, in fact, stingy with their IPs.


As if anybody doubted that...
I wouldn't say stingy in this situation considering we know literally nothing other than the fact that Samus and Naruto were on that list.
 
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