Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[SharkLord]

I thought that Mii Swordfighter already was Mii Swordzoner with all the tornadoes, chakrams and reflector.

True, but this would be different. Instead of being thrown, now the chakrams are duct-taped to a stick that you whack people with

 

[7NATOR]

FighterZ is a lot more balanced than SSB4, but you have to recognize the toolset they gave Gogeta already places him in the top tiers with Kid Buu and Z Broly. Gogeta has everything good. He has a lot of tools that every character only has one or two of. He has super-fast ki and regular hitboxes, a command grab, a DP, a counter DP, an overhead shmix, free ****ing dragon balls, he's the only character with a reverse airdash mixup, a Bardock B assist, a meter gain assist that adds a level, what else?

View attachment 312418

oh right his ****ing instant killing level 3

You can tell me all you want that he needs to charge it up, do you know how easy it is to get those 7 levels in one combo string? I can easily say a third of the character combinations in the game have assists that can let you do it in a single combo. Most can get you at least halfway there.
​

And they shot UI Goku, the previous character considered the best for his amazing toolset, in the kneecaps with Gogeta's addition, basically replacing him as the king of this game. He isn't as broken as Bayonetta compared to the rest of the roster, but if you're competitive, there's zero reason to not run him.

I will say that compared to someone like UI Goku, Gogeta doesn't have as many special tools to just get out of Disadvantage and such. He does have 2 DPs, But UI Goku is something else in terms of getting out of Disadvantage

He also doesn't have anything to threaten you from Full Screen like most other characters, and his Charge can be beat by snap backing him, so if a Gogeta is just trying to get charges all day, you can get a hit/Combo and then make all that work for naught

I'd still say he's still Top tier though, but I don't think he's a king of the game though

 

[Will]

I will say that compared to someone like UI Goku, Gogeta doesn't have as many special tools to just get out of Disadvantage and such. He does have 2 DPs, But UI Goku is something else in terms of getting out of Disadvantage

He also doesn't have anything to threaten you from Full Screen like most other characters, and his Charge can be beat by snap backing him, so if a Gogeta is just trying to get charges all day, you can get a hit/Combo and then make all that work for naught

I'd still say he's still Top tier though, but I don't think he's a king of the game though

Looking back on it, I wouldn't say UI Goku was the king of the game.

It was ****ing Gotenks when they forgot to rescale his EX Super Punch.

 

[cothero]

It still feels kind of weird that Piranha Plant got actual time and effort into making it a Playable character, that could have went to Waluigi if they really wanted to.

I know each Smash game has to have it's weird character but it's still something to think about

The funny thing is, for me personally, Waluigi is a ****ty character, but he's far more important than PP in the Mario universe for obvious reasons. But that'd make Waluigi a more interesting character than a playable PP? This is the kind of situation that really shows us how Sakurai is the one that decides if a character is important or not to become playable and that's FINAL. Waluigi's fan support is huge, but for Sakurai, he is only important enough to be considered an AT, but PP is far more interesting to become a unique and unexpected character.

 

[Dan Quixote]

The funny thing is, for me personally, Waluigi is a ****ty character, but he's far more important than PP in the Mario universe for obvious reasons. But that'd make Waluigi a more interesting character than a playable PP? This is the kind of situation that really shows us how Sakurai is the one that decides if a character is important or not to become playable and that's FINAL. Waluigi's fan support is huge, but for Sakurai, he is only important enough to be considered an AT, but PP is far more interesting to become a unique and unexpected character.

I've always seen the common theory being that Piranha Plant was Sakurai flexing his creative muscle a bit and just having fun with a fighter design, as much as possible.

 

[chocolatejr9]

The funny thing is, for me personally, Waluigi is a ****ty character, but he's far more important than PP in the Mario universe for obvious reasons. But that'd make Waluigi a more interesting character than a playable PP? This is the kind of situation that really shows us how Sakurai is the one that decides if a character is important or not to become playable and that's FINAL. Waluigi's fan support is huge, but for Sakurai, he is only important enough to be considered an AT, but PP is far more interesting to become a unique and unexpected character.

To be honest, I thought it was more of a case of spin-offs not being as high of a priority.

 

[cothero]

I've always seen the common theory being that Piranha Plant was Sakurai flexing his creative muscle a bit and just having fun with a fighter design, as much as possible.

And it's commom sense that PP is the weirdo of Ultimate. Every version had it's weird character since Melee:

Melee: G&W
Brawl: R.O.B.
Sm4sh: Wii Fit Trainer
Ultimate: PP

 

[Will]

It still feels kind of weird that Piranha Plant got actual time and effort into making it a Playable character, that could have went to Waluigi if they really wanted to.

I know each Smash game has to have it's weird character but it's still something to think about

My opinion of Sakurai's treatment of Waluigi is in the same light as Ridley, Villager, or Pac-Man. He thinks he isn't worth the shot until one day when he decides that he's gonna get that shot. Maybe he changed his mind, maybe new content or ideas made it interesting, or maybe fans have been screaming it in his ear for over a decade. Piranha Plant could've been any character Sakurai wanted to make, but who he chose at the end of the day is just that.

The Plant's funny, I like it. I don't really associate it as a **** you to Waluigi, though some see it so.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Plant had the bad fortune of coming in Ultimate and as a surprise quasi-bonus character in a Direct that had already served to disappoint many of the hardcores. If it comes in via Melee or even Brawl it probably gets a little more easily accepted as a bit of Smash weirdness. As the final (sort of) base game reveal for the biggest Smash game of all time?

Yeah, kind of asking for trouble at that point.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Another thing to remember is PP was a character who was intended to not be a hero in general. Waluigi can still fit this, but a lot of characters(like Toad) cannot. So it was meant to be a fun and unique non-hero option. Waluigi isn't even really a villain per say(though more than, say, Wario is. ...Hell, he hasn't exactly ever been on the good guys' side among any of the storylines, unlike Bowser, who has done so more than once).

That said, PP had multiple relates species to figure out a fun moveset for. Waluigi... doesn't have nearly as many options(though still quite a few). So between the two, PP was just easier to make. We also know that Bowser Jr.'s vehicle mechanics helped create PP, so Waluigi may not have had a useful enough base to work with as well(I still can easily imagine him being a cross between Luigi and Wario to a degree. Wario's janky movements, with some of Luigi's high powered moves, but still very different).

I still want Waluigi in regardless, but I wouldn't be surprised if he was never on the table for that particular DLC slot.

 

[N3ON]

Plant had the bad fortune of coming in Ultimate and as a surprise quasi-bonus character in a Direct that had already served to disappoint many of the hardcores. If it comes in via Melee or even Brawl it probably gets a little more easily accepted as a bit of Smash weirdness. As the final (sort of) base game reveal for the biggest Smash game of all time?

Yeah, kind of asking for trouble at that point.

By Ultimate it would've been accepted, but no matter when you add the character, if it's Piranha Plant, it would've caused friction. It's not like there weren't characters people reacted negatively to in those games. It's not really about which game, it's more about when during that game the character was shown.

The surprise characters tend to be shown at the end, when people are all desperate and tense for their characters, backwardly assuming they're in until proven out, and looking for scapegoats when hopes get dashed. WFT was shown at the beginning, and was still not received positively, but there was a lot of roster left, so people kind of got over it pretty quickly.

My opinion of Sakurai's treatment of Waluigi is in the same light as Ridley, Villager, or Pac-Man. He thinks he isn't worth the shot until one day when he decides that he's gonna get that shot. Maybe he changed his mind, maybe new content or ideas made it interesting, or maybe fans have been screaming it in his ear for over a decade. Piranha Plant could've been any character Sakurai wanted to make, but who he chose at the end of the day is just that.

The Plant's funny, I like it. I don't really associate it as a **** you to Waluigi, though some see it so.

I don't think he saw Ridley or Villager or Pac-Man as "not worth it", I think they all had other reasons why he thought they were infeasible. Actually, we know the reasons he thought they were infeasible. He obviously thought they were worth representing, hence treating AC like a series that actually had a character in Brawl and constantly giving Ridley boss roles and acknowledging the demand.

I don't think he sees Waluigi as infeasible. I just think he sees him as an inessential spin-off character who gets meme'd about a lot. If he thinks some of the support isn't genuine, which very much used to be the case, that will also hinder Waluigi's chances.

I think he might see Toad as infeasible. Or at least a character that doesn't lend themselves to fighting.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Hey, what’ll happen to this sub forum once the final video presentation drops? Will all the support threads be locked?

 

[MarioRaccoon]

I considered Mr.G&W, ROB and Duck Hunt as “hardware legacy characters”, all of them were based on 80’s nintendo hardware (game watch, ROB and zapper).

About PP, one thing it has in his favour is that its a staple in mainline mario games. No matter whatever crazy idea Nintendo takes with mario plattaformers, PP will always be there as an enemy.

BTW, next month is interesting, we need to look if FDC gets its own spirit event or not.

 

[Will]

Hey, what’ll happen to this sub forum once the final video presentation drops? Will all the support threads be locked?

It'll become just a Speculation thread. You should remember that happened last time.

inb4 im wrong and im having a mandela effect

 

[3BitSaurus]

Hey, what’ll happen to this sub forum once the final video presentation drops? Will all the support threads be locked?

We will all fade back into the void except for the one forum poster that owns this segment of reality and brought us forth as figments of their imagination.

...But yeah, I'd also like to know.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

I wonder if there will be a lot of refugees from this thread to the Social Thread if this closes down.

That, or most people just fade into the void (by going to other sites)....

 

[DarthEnderX]

If you could add 3 more Mii classes to the game what classes would you do and what costumes could fit them?

I care nothing about the CAC aspect of Miis, only what characters they can replicate.

Mii Mage - No brainer. A bajillion wizards in gaming and I'm tired of Staff Chicks ending up as Swordfighters. Staff/wand normals with elemental spell specials.
Ex: Ashley, Viridi, Veronica, Aerith, Lip, FF1 Black Mage, FF1 White Mage, Magus, Reimu, etc.

Mii Ninja - Another extremely common archetype in gaming. And while Swordfighter CAN cover them, there are enough generic cartoon ninja gimmicks to fill it's own moveset. Twin short blades/weapon normals with ninja arts as specials.
Ex: Goemon, Ninjara, Guy, Ibuki, Shinobi, Taki, Mai, Scorpion, Kunimitsu, Kat & Ana, Grey Fox, Sekiro, etc.

Don't really have a 3rd that I really think we need. Couple options could be Mii Demo(Big Hammer/Club normals, w/ bomb/explosion related specials) and Mii Hunter(spear normals w/ bow specials)

 

[Gengar84]

Hey, what’ll happen to this sub forum once the final video presentation drops? Will all the support threads be locked?

I still like imagining what my favorite characters could be like in Smash and it’s fun discussing them. Most of my favorites don’t really have much a chance anyways so it wouldn’t make much a difference to me personally if it is officially done. There are always mods to keep the game fresh and there is always a chance somebody could mod one of my most wanted or I could try to learn how to do it myself.

 

[SKX31]

We will all fade back into the void except for the one forum poster that owns this segment of reality and brought us forth as figments of their imagination.

I'd like to imagine that that forum poster is a main.

Because (s)he will never be a memory. (And Sephiroth is really difficult / annoying to fight as Cloud IMHO. That has had me wondering which potential video game villain could have stuff that counteracts the opposing hero. Like if Eggman had attacks that slow people down.)

I wonder if there will be a lot of refugees from this thread to the Social Thread if this closes down.

That, or most people just fade into the void (by going to other sites)....

That, and some of us might also stick to the competitive threads. I think I will, because those will be active long after the final patch.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

I may end up going back to Bell Tree Forums one all the DLC is done unles some new character in intrested in pulls me back randomly

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Hey, what’ll happen to this sub forum once the final video presentation drops? Will all the support threads be locked?

Does anyone who was around during Smash 4 speculation remember what happened to the newcomer forums when the DLC ended?

 

[Will]

Does anyone who was around during Smash 4 speculation remember what happened to the newcomer forums when the DLC ended?

It'll become just a Speculation thread. You should remember that happened last time.

inb4 im wrong and im having a mandela effect

cmon man am i blind to yall

 

[Mushroomguy12]

cmon man am i blind to yall

What about the individual character support threads?

 

[Will]

What about the individual character support threads?

They stay until the next game is announced, then that respective game's version of the character support thread is made separately.

 

[N3ON]

Well last time the speculation threads were locked and we created a social group for individual characters, but that feature isn't supported on the site anymore, and I imagine those stop-gap threads are either lost or inaccessible now. But the eventual Ultimate section was created well before Ultimate was even known about, so... it all comes down to how the staff want to handle it, I suppose.

I think they would probably want to keep them open because there's not that much site activity these days without them (though tbh there probably won't be much more with them, outside the future game speculation thread), and making a section for SSB6 later this year seems a little premature.

 

[Will]

Well last time the speculation threads were locked and we created a social group for individual characters, but that feature isn't supported on the site anymore, and I imagine those stop-gap threads are either lost or inaccessible now. But the eventual Ultimate section was created well before Ultimate was even known about, so... it all comes down to how the staff want to handle it, I suppose.

I think they would probably want to keep them open because there's not that much site activity these days without them (though tbh there probably won't be much more with them, outside the future game speculation thread), and making a section for SSB6 later this year seems a little premature.

Oh right, I completely forgot most Ultimate threads were made a while before it was actually announced lol

 

[Mushroomguy12]

If anything the relatively short 2 year gap between Smash 4 and Ultimate pretty much worked wonders for this site's speculation in terms of fueling traffic.

I can't imagine what would happen here with a 6-7 year Melee/Brawl or Brawl/Smash 4 gap again.

 

[Will]

If anything the relatively short 2 year gap between Smash 4 and Ultimate pretty much worked wonders for this site's speculation in terms of fueling traffic.

I can't imagine what would happen here with a 6-7 year Melee/Brawl or Brawl/Smash 4 gap again.

NonSpecificGuy What would you suggest? Should I prepare to become king of a new Scorpion thread the moment the last character drops?

 

[Ivander]

If you could add 3 more Mii classes to the game what classes would you do and what costumes could fit them?

I think all that is really needed would be Mii Mage and obviously they use Wands/Staves/etc, but majorly use magic attacks. Costumes would include Ashley, Viridi, Melia Antiqua, Black Mage, White Mage, Veronica, DQ Sage, Priest and Mage, etc.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

This Mii talk has me wondering

If you could add 3 more Mii classes to the game what classes would you do and what costumes could fit them?

Mii Mage - Vivi(note that Black Mage is often seen more with a knife these days, so doesn't fit the generic Class as much), Brian, Lip(as a transfer over)
Mii Centaur - An awkward one, but this actually could allow for some unique things like Pegasi, various Dragon-riding Knights, etc. For an example, Mae from Shining Force, or Centaurumon from Digimon. Can also have projectile options too to diversify it.
Mii Rogue - Unlike Mii Swordfighter, this is more of an agility and a knife-based class. So this would cover ones like the aforementioned Black Mage, but also Nasir from Lagoon(his sword is just that small), Thief(generic Final Fantasy class), Maya(Killer Instinct).

...That's all I can think of for unique classes. Yes, only the Mii Mage was easy. The rest I had to rack my brain for. XD

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

View attachment 312439

NonSpecificGuy What would you suggest? Should I prepare to become king of a new Scorpion thread the moment the last character drops?

For Smash 4 we kicked off Speculation after the announcement that they were being made which was E3 2012 I believe. With Ultimate we kicked it off once the rumors started getting really heavy that a new smash was coming and I think that was a solid year before the March Direct that announced Inkling and Smash. So I’m not sure how long it’ll be until we kick off the new speculation boards after the last Ultimate character.

But yeah, if you want to be the owner of the next Scorpion Thread just be sure to keep an eye and ear out for when the next Smash is supposed to happen and you can start one up yourself.

 

[Dan Quixote]

What about this thread specifically? Will it be shut down entirely only to start again when SSB6 is announced or will it be more casual and just talking about the future of the series?

In the same vein, what about RTC? That thread seems to give scores on the chances of fighters as SSBU DLC so will that change to just any future possibilities?

 

[Rie Sonomura]

What if Ultimate Deluxe/Encore/an otherwise “expanded” version happens? Will you denote Deluxe exclusive characters as “Deluxe only” or whatever?

assuming it happens of course

 

[Idon]

So... yall ready for the Fire Emblem Heroes character?

Personally, I'm hoping for Lif.

 

[Megadoomer]

View attachment 312450

So... yall ready for the Fire Emblem Heroes character?

Personally, I'm hoping for Lif.

I think I've made this joke before, but if we get a Fire Emblem Heroes character, I'm guessing it would be Camilla with seven unique alternate costumes. (she "only" has six unique alternate costumes in Fire Emblem Heroes, but they could throw together a Halloween-themed costume or something)

 

[chocolatejr9]

View attachment 312450

So... yall ready for the Fire Emblem Heroes character?

Personally, I'm hoping for Lif.

Or we could get Euden to help boost sales of Dragalia Lost...

 

[Ivander]

View attachment 312450

So... yall ready for the Fire Emblem Heroes character?

Personally, I'm hoping for Lif.

I've been making this joke for a while when Kiran got their own Avatar designs. And while I don't think it will get a DLC character in Smash Ultimate, I do think there will be a Fire Emblem Heroes character in Smash Bros. at some point.

Lif would be interesting for a villain character, no doubt and he's got a pretty unique design and a kickin' theme song. But he's still victim to the main complaint of Fire Emblem Sword characters, whereas Kiran and Fjorm have a magic gun+summoning and lance+ice magic respectively and Reginn would be a Mech Fighter.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

What about this thread specifically? Will it be shut down entirely only to start again when SSB6 is announced or will it be more casual and just talking about the future of the series?

In the same vein, what about RTC? That thread seems to give scores on the chances of fighters as SSBU DLC so will that change to just any future possibilities?

It would depend on what people want. It’s a lot harder to speculate on something we have no idea on. At the very least, I have some basic plans on what do do in RTC for it’s final days of SSBU speculation. I personally believe that so long as the speculation threads are open, RTC will continue, but what form it takes depends on what people want and what the rest of the RTC team wants to do.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

View attachment 312450

So... yall ready for the Fire Emblem Heroes character?

Personally, I'm hoping for Lif.

Man, is Dr. Mario World doing poorly. Maybe we could get Dr. Mario added to Smash to help it out.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

Melee: G&W
Brawl: R.O.B.
Sm4sh: Wii Fit Trainer
Ultimate: PP

The surprise characters tend to be shown at the end, when people are all desperate and tense for their characters, backwardly assuming they're in until proven out, and looking for scapegoats when hopes get dashed. WFT was shown at the beginning, and was still not received positively, but there was a lot of roster left, so people kind of got over it pretty quickly.

I was always under the impression that Duck hunt was the weird/surprise character of Smash 4. First, becasue those characters are always announced last (Game & watch will be the last character you unlock in Melee, ROB was the last announced fighter of Brawl and PP was the final announced fighters of Ultimate before DLC). While Wii fit was weird and not predicted, she made a lot of sense in retrospective: she already had 2 games and the third one for the wii u was already announced. Duck hunt was also very rarely predicted, and most of the time he was discussed it wasn't very seriously. I guess you could consider in a way both Wii fit and Duck hunt weird/surprise character, but I think in retrospective Duck hunt is weirder.

Also talking about Wii fit trainer reception, I remember Duck hunt being very poorly received too with the ESRB leak. I remember people even using Duck hunt presence on the roster as a "proof" that it was fake because "no way they would add Duck hunt before (insert fan favorite)". I think today he's way more accepted, but back in the day people hated the idea so much.