Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[TheLamerGamer]

Here, instead of the worst, who was the BEST DLC choice in your opinion?
Please don't argue with anyone else's pick, taste is subjective. :) pic.twitter.com/s5qMrZaVCs

— Devon Voix 🃏🎙️ (@DevonVoixVO) April 10, 2021

For me, and , easy.

Character/series-wise: Joker, Hero, Banjo and Sephiroth (with Sephiroth being the best imo).

Playstyle: Joker, Hero and Terry

Other content in pack: Terry, Sephiroth and Joker, in that order.

 

[MooMew64]

Here, instead of the worst, who was the BEST DLC choice in your opinion?
Please don't argue with anyone else's pick, taste is subjective. :) pic.twitter.com/s5qMrZaVCs

— Devon Voix 🃏🎙️ (@DevonVoixVO) April 10, 2021

For me, and , easy.

Fav addition is probably a tie between and .

and are also rad as heck.

 

[kylexv]

Here, instead of the worst, who was the BEST DLC choice in your opinion?
Please don't argue with anyone else's pick, taste is subjective. :) pic.twitter.com/s5qMrZaVCs

— Devon Voix 🃏🎙️ (@DevonVoixVO) April 10, 2021

For me, and , easy.

Banjo and Sephiroth are my top picks. Entire tier list below:

General:
S Tier (Insanely Hype):
A Tier (Great Reveals):
B Tier (Good Inclusions):
C Tier (I have no strong feeling one way or the other):

Playstyle:
S Tier (Insanely Fun):
A Tier (Fun to play):
B Tier (Pretty fun to play):
C Tier (Not my style):

 

[Dr. Jojo Phantasma]

Here, instead of the worst, who was the BEST DLC choice in your opinion?
Please don't argue with anyone else's pick, taste is subjective. :) pic.twitter.com/s5qMrZaVCs

— Devon Voix 🃏🎙️ (@DevonVoixVO) April 10, 2021

S tier:
A tier:

B tier:

C tier:

 

[Lyncario]

Here, instead of the worst, who was the BEST DLC choice in your opinion?
Please don't argue with anyone else's pick, taste is subjective. :) pic.twitter.com/s5qMrZaVCs

— Devon Voix 🃏🎙️ (@DevonVoixVO) April 10, 2021

For me, and , easy.

Estuans interius
Ira vehementi
Estuans interius
Ira vehementi
Sephiroth
Sephiroth

Terry and Joker are also very good.

— Lyncario (@Lyn_Lapislazuli) April 10, 2021

Linking what I said on twitter because why not.

 

[JOJONumber691]

All of them were tied to two games that were either upcoming or recent Switch releases (Monster Hunter Rise and Ghosts 'N' Goblins Resurrection); Capcom seems to do whatever they want when it comes to Mii costumes. (they seem a lot more open/willing than Bandai-Namco, which has no new Mii costumes even though they're working on the game, or Microsoft, which only has the Minecraft costumes since they didn't own Bethesda when the Fallout costume was added - I don't think that Microsoft owns Cuphead, though I could be wrong)

Their addition seems to be based on a specific time (around the release window of the games), not a specific character. (it would be weird to have these costumes promoting MH Rise and GnG Resurrection in June or September, if we happen to get a Capcom character as one of the next two)

It just seems weird to me to rule out Ace Attorney, Devil May Cry, Okami, Darkstalkers, Viewtiful Joe, etc. because of Mii costumes that were added to promote two games from other Capcom series. I can understand saying that those costumes mean that we aren't going to get someone from Monster Hunter, or Arthur from Ghosts 'N' Goblins, but Capcom has a lot of series that people want to see in Smash, and it feels like jumping the gun to say that none of them are going to happen because of one set of Mii costumes.

Your desperate for hope. One of my Most Wanted, Ruby Heart, is a Capcom Character. If you keep on insisting that having an entire Mii Wave just to one company isn’t a killing blow, then by all means cling on. As for me, I’ve given up.

 

[Gazorpazorpfield]

Terry is the full package and embodies so much of what I love about Smash. I’m so happy that despite being a relatively unknown addition he grew into one of the most beloved Ultimate newcomers.

Just like Ness, Captain Falcon, Pit etc in the past, that’s such an important part of Smash’s identity. I know Terry is, by default, bigger than most of those characters were when they were included, but my point is that I love when Smash takes the time to celebrate something that may not always get the credit and recognition it deserves. Celebrating video games isn’t just a checklist of icons, it’s paying homage to the niches and crevices too.

Also he’s just really cool lmao. Fits like a glove and fun to play too. I have a lot of great things to say about most of the DLC but Terry is something special. And he brought Psycho Soldier so...

Terry's dope, and he's one of my personal favorites, but I have to dock points from him for being a retread of Ryu's playstyle but with Super Specials. Still like a high B - low A tier addition tho

 

[Speed Weed]

Terry is the full package and embodies so much of what I love about Smash. I’m so happy that despite being a relatively unknown addition he grew into one of the most beloved Ultimate newcomers.

Just like Ness, Captain Falcon, Pit etc in the past, that’s such an important part of Smash’s identity. I know Terry is, by default, bigger than most of those characters were when they were included, but my point is that I love when Smash takes the time to celebrate something that may not always get the credit and recognition it deserves. Celebrating video games isn’t just a checklist of icons, it’s paying homage to the niches and crevices too.

Also he’s just really cool lmao. Fits like a glove and fun to play too. I have a lot of great things to say about most of the DLC but Terry is something special. And he brought Psycho Soldier so...

Terry's pack would be a 10/10 if not for the fact that Duck King doesn't make a KOF Stadium cameo

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Your desperate for hope. One of my Most Wanted, Ruby Heart, is a Capcom Character. If you keep on insisting that having an entire Mii Wave just to one company isn’t a killing blow, then by all means cling on. As for me, I’ve given up.

Ah yes. Because nothing disproves an opposing argument better than claiming the opponent is delirious, desperate, and/or nonsensical for no other reason than that they don't hold your opinion. After all, it's a 100% truth that needs absolutely 0 justification!

 

[JOJONumber691]

Here, instead of the worst, who was the BEST DLC choice in your opinion?
Please don't argue with anyone else's pick, taste is subjective. :) pic.twitter.com/s5qMrZaVCs

— Devon Voix 🃏🎙️ (@DevonVoixVO) April 10, 2021

For me, and , easy.

My Tier List goes like:
S Tier:
A Tier:
B Tier:
C Tier:


Power Gap!!!!!!!



F Tier:

 

[Merengue]

Yep seems so. Sakurai said to hold on just a bit longer in his latest Famitsu column.

Just wondering. Can you give me the link where it says that the next reveal will be at E3?

 

[RouffWestie]

Here, instead of the worst, who was the BEST DLC choice in your opinion?
Please don't argue with anyone else's pick, taste is subjective. :) pic.twitter.com/s5qMrZaVCs

— Devon Voix 🃏🎙️ (@DevonVoixVO) April 10, 2021

For me are the top 5.

 

[JOJONumber691]

Ah yes. Because nothing disproves an opposing argument better than claiming the opponent is delirious, desperate, and/or nonsensical for no other reason than that they don't hold your opinion. After all, it's a 100% truth that needs absolutely 0 justification!

Okay, last I checked every other Final Fantasy Game got a Character deconfirmed by Sephiroth. Despite it only having FFVII Content. If there was One Mii, One Singular Mii not from Capcom that showed up with Pyra and Mythra, I would agree with you. The fact that we didn’t get a single Mii from a Company other than Capcom, not even Nintendo themselves, speaks Volumes to how likely a Capcom Character is. Not saying it’s impossible, but it’s definitely very unlikely, so if you want to not be an angry Smash Fan at CP10, then expect Capcom is dead, and be pleasantly surprised if Capcom does get a Fighter.

 

[SpectreJordan]

Here, instead of the worst, who was the BEST DLC choice in your opinion?
Please don't argue with anyone else's pick, taste is subjective. :) pic.twitter.com/s5qMrZaVCs

— Devon Voix 🃏🎙️ (@DevonVoixVO) April 10, 2021

For me, and , easy.

Banjo & Joker for me. They were the two most exciting character for all of Ultimate for me & they're now my mains.

 

[Lamperouge]

S:
A:
B:
C:

I think the DLC has been pretty great in general, TBH. Even if it wasn't a character I was super familiar with beforehand, their content and play styles usually won me over pretty quick, and a few of them even introduced me to some incredible games that rank among my favorites.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Just wondering. Can you give me the link where it says that the next reveal will be at E3?

I don't think it's ever been officially stated. There's just a high likelihood that it will be.

Okay, last I checked every other Final Fantasy Game got a Character deconfirmed by Sephiroth. Despite it only having FFVII Content.

Sephiroth is a fighter and these are Mii Costumes. They are not the same thing since Mii Costumes are about a dime a dozen. If there's more they could add, there's no reason to believe that they wouldn't do so.

Not saying it’s impossible, but it’s definitely very unlikely, so if you want to not be an angry Smash Fan at CP10, then expect Capcom is dead, and be pleasantly surprised if Capcom does get a Fighter.

Not believing that a Capcom fighter is disconfirmed is not the same thing as expecting a Capcom fighter and getting pissed if we don't have one. I know the stereotypes are borne from a grain of truth but that doesn't mean that you can't expect the people here to have a rational head on their shoulders.

 

[JOJONumber691]

Sephiroth is a fighter and these are Mii Costumes. They are not the same thing since Mii Costumes are about a dime a dozen. If there's more they could add, there's no reason to believe that they wouldn't do so.
Not believing that a Capcom fighter is disconfirmed is not the same thing as expecting a Capcom fighter and getting pissed if we don't have one. I know the stereotypes are borne from a grain of truth but that doesn't mean that you can't expect the people here to have a rational head on their shoulders.

Only thing needed to convince me that Capcom was still in the running was a Mii Costume not from Capcom. I wonder what actually happened hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.......................

 

[DarthEnderX]

If anything that would be Mario.

Mario is a video game character, and already in Smash. Why the hell would people request him to be the 4th party exception?

Not really, that'd be more like Doraemon.

Doraemon is not recognized all over the world the way Goku and Mickey are.

When I say "Goku is Japan's Micky Mouse" I don't mean "Goku is the most popular Japanese cartoon character". I mean, "Goku is most widely recognizable Japanese character around the world."

If anything he’s more Japan’s Superman.

That's a better comparison.

I recall he's actually even more popular then Goku or Dragon Ball overall. Why aren't people asking for him then if that's the case?

Because most Smash speculation you would see would come from westerners, who barely know who Doraemon is.

 

[Technomage]

Here, instead of the worst, who was the BEST DLC choice in your opinion?
Please don't argue with anyone else's pick, taste is subjective. :) pic.twitter.com/s5qMrZaVCs

— Devon Voix 🃏🎙️ (@DevonVoixVO) April 10, 2021

For me, and , easy.

I pick Banjo-Kazooie.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Only thing needed to convince me that Capcom was still in the running was a Mii Costume not from Capcom. I wonder what actually happened hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.......................

You weren't convinced. Doesn't make you're argument better or give you any sort of high ground. All you have is a difference in opinion.

 

[Bee Card]

Give up with your Goku or Mickey, let's go Popeye for Smash ! lol

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Ranking DLC again?

S
A
B
C

Overall a pretty great lineup. The best are overwhelmingly outstanding and the worst is only meh. Tbh I think I prefer the DLC newcomers thus far compared to ones we had in base

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Here, instead of the worst, who was the BEST DLC choice in your opinion?
Please don't argue with anyone else's pick, taste is subjective. :) pic.twitter.com/s5qMrZaVCs

— Devon Voix 🃏🎙️ (@DevonVoixVO) April 10, 2021

For me, and , easy.

S:
A:
B:
F:

Fighter Pass 1 was okay but Fighter Pass 2 is pretty weak so far. I hope the last two characters are at least worth a B tier.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Based on Character:
S -
A -
B -
C -
F -

Based on Gameplay:
S -
A -
C -
F -

 

[Lamperouge]

Ranking DLC again?

S
A
B
C

Overall a pretty great lineup. The best are overwhelmingly outstanding and the worst is only meh. Tbh I think I prefer the DLC newcomers thus far compared to ones we had in base

Oh, absolutely.

I think the DLC lineup appeals to a much more wide audience than what we got with the base roster, and a lot of their move sets play it less "safe" and introduce some really interesting and unique mechanics to set them apart from the rest of the cast.

 

[SNEKeater]

You bring up some pretty solid points here, but my stance is that the logic behind returning Mii Costumes hasn't proven me wrong yet. I'd be over the moon if it does end up falling through and we somehow get Chun-Li or Phoenix though. It's not like the possibility isn't there for even more costumes.

Like, it kinda baffles me that we still don't have proper Street Fighter costumes. Making at least a Guile costume would be so easy with his AT already there.

Yeah, fair point! To clarify I don't think a Capcom character is likely, but that doesn't mean it's impossible. And while I admit bias can be playing a part in my stance, I genuinely felt like that Mii costume wave and Sakurai's words were kinda suspicious.
So it doesn't mean I'm hyping a Capcom character, that's not the case. Just that I personally believe they still have a chance, even if it's very small.

About SF, yeah. It's kinda bizarre we don't have any costumes. Maybe for some reason they were harder to get? Keep in mind SF is actually owned by Capcom USA, so I don't know, maybe they're harder to deal with? I don't really think so, I'm just spitballing lol

I mean I don't think having Ken and Ryu costumes should be hard. Same for some of the most iconic characters in the series, such as Chun-Li, Bison or Vega.

While I mostly agree with your post as a whole, it's less "The fighter needs costumes" and more "The costumes would come with the related fighter if there was one." Kinda like how all the Persona Miis came with Joker instead of strewn all over the place, or how the SNK Miis were released with Terry and not scattered throughout the pass. It's not the fighters that would require the costumes, it's the costumes that would need to come with a fighter, if there was one. Granted, companies aren't as tight as the same series, as the Virtua Fighter Miis demonstrated, but the sheer volume of Capcom Miis all at once is a red flag.

That's true, and I can see why.

Maybe, assuming we're indeed getting a Capcom rep, is that said character would come with already a good amount of costumes (regardless of being from Capcom or not) and that made them to release the MH costumes earlier, while also talking the opportunity of doing some cross promotion.
While costumes are obviously something that doesn't need as much planning as the fighters, I imagine they still have some kind of roadmap for these costumes, at least the third party ones which would require some negotiations, even if minimal.

Just a "theory", in any case.

 

[Diddy Kong]

DLC Rankings:

SS:

Banjo: Basically a dream come true for all is 90s kids. You know, the ones growing up with the first Smash Bros. and all.

Byleth: I ****ing love FE Three Houses.

A: Mythra & Pyra

Made me play Xenoblade 2, having loved the remake of the first game, this was worth it all.

B:

Very fair and respectable choices. Sephiroth had me hyped, and this is coming from the guy who hated the idea of Cloud in Smash 4 and was legitimately upset about the inclusion (most had to do with him not being K.Rool tho).

C:

He was a literal who for me, but he's fair enough. Just doesn't make as much sense to me as the others. No hate, just don't care about him that much.

D:

Just... Why?

E:

I forgive him for being fun to fight, but he's not a good choice to me.

 

[SneakyLink]

DLC ranking time once again?

S-,,
A- ,,
B- ,
C- ,
My reasonings:

Banjo, Steve, and Pyra I played their games prior to Smash.

Hero, Terry and Min-Min are fun for me to use.

Plant and Byleth aren’t as fun as the first 6, but they each bring a unique personality.

Joker and Sephiroth are the most “meh” to me, due to me not agreeing with both movesets and the super unfortunate timing of Sephiroth’s reveal. Music is neat though.

 

[Louie G.]

Since I saw a few people remark on it, personally I still prefer the base game newcomers. DLC has been fun, but it's not there yet for me.

I'm a bit of a purist at heart - I'm willing to give any character a chance and have well accepted by now that Smash has strayed far beyond the confines of "Nintendo crossover"... but the fact is none of these third party characters, as big or shocking as they are, come close to the bliss I felt when joined.

Ultimate's base roster used its limited roster space masterfully. We already knew they couldn't add a whole slew of new characters yet, but they made it count. were the two biggest Nintendo characters of the last decade, they had to be there. were the longtime fan favorites and the biggest missing first-party antagonists. was the biggest no-brainer third party addition left and rounded out that lineup very nicely. After these five I genuinely felt the roster was pretty much complete (give or take Rhythm Heaven, but I'm biased).

Then there was also , the obligatory new Pokemon, and he handily won me over with how expressive and fun he ended up being.

I'm a bit disappointed with how Isabelle was handled (feels like they kinda just gave up halfway through), but overall everyone plays like a dream. Doesn't need to be too gimmicky, everyone is pretty much just what they need to be. And unlike a lot of the DLC choices, maybe it's just me, but the base roster feels like we were given inseparable parts of the Smash family.

A lot of DLC feels like it's kinda just passing by, or hasn't fully settled in for me yet, but the moment most of these base game characters dropped I immediately felt they were right where they belonged. I'm a sentimental sap and that means a lot to me.

 

[Bee Card]

S-Tier : - Obligatory gaming icons
A-Tier : Cool and fun to play for me
B-Tier : Cool but just okay to play (for me)
C-Tier : Okay but not really original
Wtf-why-it's-not-Edelgard-Tier :
D-Tier : Meh
Z-Tier : Just no

 

[Cosmic77]

S (Wanted them):
A (Pleasant addition):
B (Not for me, but okay):
C (Didn't really want):

Overall though, I think I still prefer the base roster newcomers. Inkling, Ridley, K. Rool, and Isabelle were all part of my most-wanted list, especially Ridley. That one is still the most hype for me.

The DLC has been more hit and miss.

 

[SharkLord]

Yeah, fair point! To clarify I don't think a Capcom character is likely, but that doesn't mean it's impossible. And while I admit bias can be playing a part in my stance, I genuinely felt like that Mii costume wave and Sakurai's words were kinda auspicious.
So it doesn't mean I'm hyping a Capcom character, that's not the case. Just that I personally believe they still have a chance, even if it's very small.

auspicious

The keyboard placements of the "a" and "s" meant I actually had to go and look up this word to make sure it wasn't a typo

You learn something every day

 

[PeridotGX]

I've been playing PMEX remix. It's fun, and as someone who has a major gripe with Ultimate's lack of new stages it's fun seeing all these new ones. One quick question: does anyone know where this stage comes from? I'm pretty sure it's some sort of fighting game, but I'm not sure.

 

[Louie G.]

Since I mentioned the base game characters before I'll just do everyone.

S:
A:
B:
C:
D:

I like pretty much everyone aside from Byleth (sorry, I just don't like them), so overall it's been pleasant. Granted I also haven't gotten a lot of my absolute MWs so much as I've just gotten characters who I think are good additions in their own right.

And this is overall, factoring in how much I like the character and how much I like their gameplay. Isabelle in particular takes a hit from this, since she's a character who I wanted but as I mentioned earlier came out feeling a bit half-baked. Meanwhile Plant, although they're a silly addition and I didn't know how to feel at first, ended up being one of the most fun characters in the game for me.

I'm still holding out for a DLC character who really feels like "my" kind of character, but for now I got K. Rool and I'm still happy about that.

 

[Idon]

I've been playing PMEX remix. It's fun, and as someone who has a major gripe with Ultimate's lack of new stages it's fun seeing all these new ones. One quick question: does anyone know where this stage comes from? I'm pretty sure it's some sort of fighting game, but I'm not sure.

View attachment 310799​

That'd be from Tatsunoko vs Capcom.

 

[Megadoomer]

Here, instead of the worst, who was the BEST DLC choice in your opinion?
Please don't argue with anyone else's pick, taste is subjective. :) pic.twitter.com/s5qMrZaVCs

— Devon Voix 🃏🎙️ (@DevonVoixVO) April 10, 2021

For me, and , easy.

For me, it's definitely Banjo-Kazooie. In what's undoubtedly a rare sentence, Banjo and Kazooie were a lot like Bayonetta for me. Both and were characters that I really wanted to see in Smash where I thought that it would be easy to make the transition from their home games to Smash Bros., but I figured that they were extremely unlikely for one reason or another. As a result, I was caught off-guard when they made it in. (and, as an added bonus, both of them played more or less how I wanted them to - I didn't want Bayonetta to be overpowered, but they did a great job with capturing the gameplay of the Bayonetta games)

I know that there was the Shinobi leak shortly beforehand, but I didn't want to get my hopes up. (from what I recall, it was worded vaguely enough that it could just be him messing with people and then saying that it was just what he wanted to see, rather than an attempt at leaking) Banjo-Kazooie getting in was made all the sweeter for me by the fact that I had wanted them in Smash since I played the original Smash Bros. game, but I had long since given up hope because of the Microsoft buy-out. (as hard as it might be to believe it now that we've gotten and , it seemed like a massive long-shot that we'd ever get a character from a competing console maker in Smash Bros., though some people were optimistic due to Microsoft consistently releasing Minecraft on other consoles)

Banjo and Kazooie getting into Smash was something that I had wanted for about twenty years, and something that I had completely given up hope on. No other character, not even Ridley or K. Rool, can match that kind of a reaction from me.

 

[Staarih]

All the DLC has been great. It would be really hard for me to be disappointed as I find it silly to "hate" a character when they still bring something new to the table.

However, my favorite pick is as ARMS was one of my most wanted's and I find it somewhat of a miracle it was still pulled off.
Based on how fun I find characters to use (and based on how often I play as them), would come after.

...funny how it's the first parties that seem to appeal to me the most. No matter how iconic Steve, Sephiroth, Banjo etc are, I never really had any personal attachment to them and while it's cool to have them in, I don't gravitate towards playing as them that much.

 

[Ivander]

I've been playing PMEX remix. It's fun, and as someone who has a major gripe with Ultimate's lack of new stages it's fun seeing all these new ones. One quick question: does anyone know where this stage comes from? I'm pretty sure it's some sort of fighting game, but I'm not sure.

View attachment 310799​

Tatsunoko vs Capcom. To be more specific, it's from Onimusha: Dawn of Dreams and the stage for the character Soki. But it's the version from Tatsunoko vs Capcom.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I gave everyone a score again since I guess that's how I get my thoughts in order. This time based on my current affinity for the character, their playstyle, and the decisions surrounding them. Here are my results:

• S:
  • I just really like almost everything about this Challenger Pack. If Minecraft got its most iconic music, this would have been S+ Tier.
• A:
  • I like each of them for different reasons. Piranha Plant is amusing, Terry's Challenger Pack feels like it's packed with content, and Sephiroth has left a lasting impression on me with his trailer alone.
• B:
  • I like Byleth and his playstyle is alright as well. He'd be a tier higher if his moveset wasn't "lol sword bad".
• C:
  • I don't have any strong feelings about them one way or the other. Except Min Min, because she's only here because her getting in before Spring Man is like Bandana Waddle Dee getting in without any other Kirby characters.
• F: /
  • I try not to be bitter about these two but...I'm extremely bitter about these two. So much so that they're actually on the same tier as those right above them (well, only because the final scores are rounded), but I went ahead and made the executive decision that my hatred for them as the sole Xenoblade Chronicles 2 reps boots them down from a meh to active dislike overall. I think what bothers me most is the fact that I would have loved them if they didn't ignore all the core themes and mechanics of Xenoblade Chronicles 2.

 

[7NATOR]

All the DLC has been great. It would be really hard for me to be disappointed as I find it silly to "hate" a character when they still bring something new to the table.

However, my favorite pick is as ARMS was one of my most wanted's and I find it somewhat of a miracle it was still pulled off.
Based on how fun I find characters to use (and based on how often I play as them), would come after.

...funny how it's the first parties that seem to appeal to me the most. No matter how iconic Steve, Sephiroth, Banjo etc are, I never really had any personal attachment to them and while it's cool to have them in, I don't gravitate towards playing as them that much.

Just because something brings something New doesn't mean the Hate is unwarranted, or that the New thing is a good thing

I do know there's been people that may have stopped playing the game, or find less enjoyment because some of the New playstyles that the DLC Introduced have been very controversial to say the least, at least to Fight against

In particular, Joker, Banjo, Min Min (Especially Min Min), Steve, and Pyra/Mythra are characters that get flack when it comes to Fighting them, from what I've seen.

This can be an issue for some people, and in these cases this could make the Actual game less fun to play. Even if you don't get the DLC, other people have and you have to fight these playstyles. It's the same thing with Cloud and Bayonetta in Smash 4, where their additions broke the game and for some make the Game less fun.

Also these aren't my Personal thoughts, this is me just trying to suggest why people might have this Viewpoint. Personally I all for these New Mechanics and characters