Wario probably won't grab DK before getting any %... if DK is doing retreating bairs he should be somewhat safe... and he can go on platforms to avoid being chaingrabbed... getting a DK to 120 % isn't such a big deal for some characters but against Wario its pretty bad since he has nice kill moves like fart and uair. But it isn't that easy for Wario and if he fails to hit with fsmash he's punished badly. Fart is really good if it's nearly fully charged, but lets be honest here you don't hit with it most of the time and it's really difficult to do so. His best KO option is uair imo, and it's really good against DK...
Since Wario dies at 80 % he can only take like 7 hits and it's already over. It is not as easy for Wario as you think. =/
Bite to grab seems to work at 0 %, but nair to grab doesn't. And if the only thing you can go for is one option it shouldn't really work, because it's too predictable.
I just explained why camping with Bairs doesn't work. Camping with Bairs works under the assumption that the other character loses ground, or cannot advance forward noticeably while you do this. Wario isn't one of those characters.
Running away from Wario doesn't work as DK. You can't jump vertically out of his reach, you don't outspeed him in the air, you don't change directions in the air better than he does, etc. Platform camping would be a valid point, if Wario was slow and bulky in the air like Dedede. He's not though. That, and Wario is a character that doesn't care whether you try to platform camp to avoid a grab. He has guaranteed grab setups on DK pouring out of his butt. Land on platform? Bite to dash grab. About to land and airdodge? Dair into grab.
At 0%, Bite to Dash Grab works, and Nair to grab works (you are hitting with Nair incorrectly if it doesn't combo). Dair to Grab works, Uair to grab works, etc. Almost ALL of these setups lasts into the 40-50% mark. Bite to Dash Grab doesn't sadly (lasts to about 25+% when you spit out DK on the last bite hit), but everything else does. Actually, depending on where DK is positioned, weak Fair to grab combos too.
Trust me, DK has too many setups on him from too many different angles to cover them all.
Also the thing about Wario getting hit 7 times before being in death range:
Let's compare that to Wario:
Wario
-A single hit from 0-40+% on a multitude of attacks can lead into a 110+ CG (assuming at that point you know how to get out correctly, because otherwise it can actually still go on for longer), do an extra 8-10% on the additional throw, put you in bad position, and almost guarantee your death from that point forward.
DK
-Cannot guarantee that you will take 100+ damage from a CG. Does not have a guaranteed grab setup, potentially has 1 that is situational.
Basically, I don't think some of you comprehend the magnitude of this CG for Wario. From a single hit, he can guarantee a grab. From that grab, he can guarantee that you take roughly 120%. Afterwards, he guarantees to put you in a less favorable spot, and the damage he has put on you almost certainly guarantees that the next 1-2 big hits will kill.
For Donkey Kong:
From a single hit, he does not guarantee anything EXCEPT that now instead of requiring 7 hits, you now require 6. Then, once you get those other 6 hits, you have to go through the task of grabbing him.
Think about it this way, reverse roles. Say that DK could, from a single hit, guarantee a 0-110+ CG onto Wario that ended with a free hit from DK, basically leading to Wario's Death. Say that Wario in this instance had every aspect of the character the same, except with his own CG gone.
In that instance, I find it HARD to believe that you guys would ONLY argue for a 6:4 on Wario. You would push for 65:35, or even 7:3/75:25, and rightly so. Calling a matchup like that merely 6/4 would make REAL 6/4 matchups look like a joke (Marth vs TL for example would look TAME compared to DK vs Wario then).
So now, think about that from the current perspective. I think the matchup would be around 7:3, like the other "reversed" matchup, except for this matchup DK had a tool Wario didn't have, and that would be grab release.
I think the additional tool of having a grab release that is deadly past the 80% mark is a tool that shapes the matchup into DK's favor by 5 points. That would put it roughly at 65:35. That makes sense the more you start to look at the difference between 6/4 matchups, and 7/3 matchups. 7/3 matchups are basically impossible for the other character to win. 6/4 is a matchup you will have a somewhat hard time in, but your prospects of winning are still fairly good. Wario vs DK Wario doesn't demolish him like Dedede, so 7/3 is out of the question. At the same time, Wario doesn't have a "small noticeable" advantage. He would **** the hell out of DK if DK didn't have at least SOMETHING to fight back with. So I think 65:35 suits it well.
I'm not going to Pound (family is vacationing in Colorado actually, so I might go play the Colorado guys if they are down), but I will probably be at fairly big events like No Koast and WHOBO.
so far the only wario i have known to do the buffered chaingrab perfectly is fiction. who else does it that has fought good DK's?
Fiction isn't the only person who can do the CG well, although the number of Wario's who can do it correctly is fairly small. I can do it (hell I came up with the Dthrow to Dtilt, which is even harder to pull off, and I almost have that down), PX can do it last time I saw him, Bassem MIGHT be able to (it's weird. He's one of the most technical Wario's out there, but when it comes to stuff like that he either tries to do it too fast or he does it weird lol). IDK who else can do it 100%, I know some people say they can but I have doubts on some of them.
crawling does not force DK to use bair close to the ground. That assumes b-air is his only option for a grounded opponent (or at least with your wording). I kinda enjoy fighting campy wario's so I hope to play you a few matches at pound and discuss the matchup in person.
Ofcourse I'll probly skip the discussing part and just play but it'll be fun
It's not his only option, someone gave me the scenario of DK Bair camping and I gave him solutions and broke down how Bair works. If you want to mix up your options, go ahead. When you are retreating with Bair fairly consistently though, that has holes to exploit.
crawling??? even sh double bairs beat them.
I would say it´s 60:40 for Wario, since DK is one of those Characters who have an excellent spacing game thx to range.
And ZxChrono the MU vs Falco is 55:45 for Falco, stage dependant.
SH DOUBLE Bairs. Note the Double there. That means that you have to basically FALL to that height to hit Wario in that position. That is one of the holes/flaws with Bair that I noted. It pokes out at an upwards angle slightly, so unless you can hit them in the initial "jump" on the way up, you have to wait and fall a bit and try again. While this is happening, guess what happens? Wario gains space.
