DK Character Matchup Discussion

[The Unlawful Salmon]

If any chain grabbing character works on their timing (they can learn the proper timing during a 3 stock match), they can chain grab you off of the main platform and into the clap trap, making chain grabs a possible death. Because of this, Jungle Japes only works as a counter pick if the D3 is unfamiliar with the stage.

Well really that's not a big issue since if they grab you they don't need to do that, they can just infinite you in place. Really any stage that keeps the fighting in the air, and at a mostly horizontal range helps out since DKs horizontal aerial game is better than DDDs.
If your DDD opponent can't infinite chain grab you, you should have a shot at beating them. The normal chain grab still hurts a lot, so do everything you can to avoid it and get past their camping game at the same time.

We should all probably move on since we all know that any MK worth their salt has an advantage over DK. It's somewhere around 40-60 in MKs favor.

I think ZSS would make a good next character to talk about.

 

[Tbagz]

i find it that im a very good metaknight player and my friends a verygood donkeykong player, but i tend to get punished for errors i dont remember about donkeykong.

things donkeykong has going for him over MK
-His range (its amazing end o' story)
-HIS POWER ive gotten koed at 60% damage!
- his weight!, when i pull off my Dsmash, Fsmash, or UpB, donkeykong still tends to live! and a skilled donkeykong player doesnt die easily! it normally goes past 120%.
- donkeykongs speed, its really not that bad, very fast for a character of his stature.

things MK has over him:
- The speed
- The ability to combo, which doesnt really help KO DK just rack up damage.

donkeykong has the Tilts going for him when he fights my metaknight, it keeps him spaced from me, and allows him to look where my weak point that im not paying attention to is at the moment. but lets not forget, that insane throw?

DONKEYKONGS BACKTHROW HAS KOED ME AT 65% DAMAGE on battlefeild and smashville!
also? the stage KO if your close to the edge and over 45% damage, it doesnt give u enough time to get out of the grab if the DK user is quick with it..

donkeykong is a counterpick of metaknight. anyone who isnt abnormally slow, has good range, and alot of power behined the range is good against metaknight (besides ike) because i can pull off an insane combo on my friends DK, and almost get the KO but he will recover. and guess what? 2-3 normal hits, and the damage is all tied up.

i hope this helped alot with your donkeykong formula

 

[Cyphus]

i find it that im a very good metaknight player and my friends a verygood donkeykong player, but i tend to get punished for errors i dont remember about donkeykong.

thats the point. when you get past DK's tricks, the match falls in MK favor.
in fact, we're done discussing MK.

ZAMUS TYME.

 

[Tbagz]

thats the point. when you get past DK's tricks, the match falls in MK favor.
in fact, we're done discussing MK.

ZAMUS TYME.

its true. wait till next week dude -.-

and i found when i payed attention more my nado was able to **** through the mistakes i would make

 

[Hixxy]

Well really that's not a big issue since if they grab you they don't need to do that, they can just infinite you in place. Really any stage that keeps the fighting in the air, and at a mostly horizontal range helps out since DKs horizontal aerial game is better than DDDs.
If your DDD opponent can't infinite chain grab you, you should have a shot at beating them. The normal chain grab still hurts a lot, so do everything you can to avoid it and get past their camping game at the same time.

I was referring to normal chain grab, not infinite.

 

[Master Raven]

thats the point. when you get past DK's tricks, the match falls in MK favor.
in fact, we're done discussing MK.

ZAMUS TYME.

But if the DK knows of MK's tricks as well, then who's favor does it fall into? As far as I'm concerned, this is either 60/40 in DK's favor or 50/50 with a slight favor torwards DK.

 

[Cyphus]

But if the DK knows of MK's tricks as well, then who's favor does it fall into? As far as I'm concerned, this is either 60/40 in DK's favor or 50/50 with a slight favor torwards DK.

MK doesn't have "tricks" he's just ****ing gay. He doesn't need to rely on creative play like DK- which doesn't always work.
END-O-DISCUSSION.

===============================


ZAMUS

i find she can be very tough actually. Her charged gun is hard to avoid, at DK's prime distance for tilts. Often times you SH or lag into it from a tilt.
Get zapped by it or shield it, and she often dash grabs you from either.
Throw in her forward B which rivals you're range, but has twice the priority of your moves, plus she ***** back before releasing it, i find its easy for her to sort of dodge and counter using it. not to mention you can't really punish her for anything. (B, forward B, etc)

worst case scenario, you get d.smashed = 2nd d.smash + grab, hit, d.throw, upair..possibly 2nd upair.


All in all...her gun and forward B is what makes her aggravating as hell for DK, because he's too big to evade either easily, and she is must faster to run away and can keep DK trying to ineffectively poke at her, while she gets in the hits.

Once she's off the ledge its not hard to hog her, but you gotta be careful because her downB can KO you and her UpB and suicide KO you if you hog.

Personally, i dont find DK has an advantage in this fight. Its probably close to being fair.

 

[Master Raven]

MK doesn't have "tricks" he's just ****ing gay. He doesn't need to rely on creative play like DK- which doesn't always work.
END-O-DISCUSSION.

That just sounds like you have a bad time with MKs. I hardly have trouble with them with DK anymore, but whatever. I think this matchup is, at the very least, in a slight favor torwards DK. You don't. Let's just agree to disagree then and move on.

 

[The Unlawful Salmon]

I've beaten a lot of MK players but it doesn't mean anything other than they didn't have enough experience fighting against DK or playing as MK. The best MK players here will beat DK almost every time, so I've had to have keep a secondary or two(for DDD/ICs too.) If your winning vs MK without much trouble with DK I'd just take that as a sign that your MK opponents could improve their game vs DK.

The problem here is we can't see you beating your MK opponents, and you can't see us losing to ours.

What would stop all the bickering is if we could get some solid footage of an insanely good MK vs an insanely good DK, and go from there.

 

[Rejjae]

you dont "time" DK's UpB into MK's UpB..his is instant..you would have to UpB before he does, and then he does his (for no reason) a set distance away and leans into you at the right moment. In other words, you're wrong for even suggesting this.

First of all, I said Up-B through his TORNADO, go look back at it if you must. And against the actual move you're supposed to use it on, TORNADO if you need to be reminded which one I'm talking about, you do have to time it, there's a half second (maybe less) where you can be hit before your attack starts. If you start it too early, they can wait for you. Even if they just go in anyways, the 2 attacks clash if they meet after the starting part of your Up-B, so you're back to square 1

if it doesn't work "some times" than its not reliable to use.

The part that doesn't work everytime is the Dsmash. Uptilt will always clash with glide attack if it doesn't hit them before they use it. If you really just want to play it safe, you can just go for a grab, which comes out a lot faster than a smash.

this scenario wont happen against good MKs

If you see MK in his glide just a bit higher than DK's height (perhaps after a missed Up-B), and you RAR, he has 2 choices, no matter how good he is: 1. Eat a Bair 2. Clash glide attack with Bair and eat another bair (or perhaps a nair depending on position) on the way down. You'd be right to say "this scenario won't happen as much against good MKs"

what are you smoking?

LSD , ok this one I might have been wrong on, I had my brother try to escape dthrow chain by using Up-B, Nair, Fair, Airdodge, and spotdodge, but his DI is less than great. Between 10-25 is when it's hardest to escape, and ftilt usually connects after a throw below 30%. The first throw is the weirdest one, since it seems he has less lag/hitstun if he makes contact with the ground letting him spotdodge.

 

[gojira345]

DK can do ok against MK.

Just don't get daired.

 

[Cyphus]

First of all, I said Up-B through his TORNADO, go look back at it if you must. And against the actual move you're supposed to use it on, TORNADO if you need to be reminded which one I'm talking about, you do have to time it, there's a half second (maybe less) where you can be hit before your attack starts. If you start it too early, they can wait for you. Even if they just go in anyways, the 2 attacks clash if they meet after the starting part of your Up-B, so you're back to square 1

I said "UpB" but i meant "B"....fact is, it doens't matter. DK's UpB is too slow to start in time once Meta has started the tornado, in fact even if you did it at the exact same and nearby you're invulnerability frames aren't going to activate yet.
i'm not saying you're dumb, but i'm not going to argue DK vs meta anymore. I've been trying to talk Zamus for 2 pages now.

 

[The Unlawful Salmon]

Brahma, update please. =)

ZSS time!

Tip #1: If you Bair her, make sure you avoid that nasty whip.

PS: Here's that solid DK vs MK footage.(Not me playing of course)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkwGAdGGTF4&fmt=18

 

[Ripple]

Brahma, update please. =)

ZSS time!

Tip #1: If you Bair her, make sure you avoid that nasty whip.

PS: Here's that solid DK vs MK footage.(Not me playing of course)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkwGAdGGTF4

that vid is crap. if darkrain is truly as good as people say he is then that video is one of his worst. I saw so many mistakes in that video its not even funny. the only thing that he did very well was DI, but everything else was terrible.

on topic though for ZSS you really need to catch her armor parts and glide toss every where. once they're gone you need to pressure her. take her off the stage with CSS or even cargo down toss.

 

[Mr.Victory07]

ZSS=Easy IMO, she is too light

 

[The Unlawful Salmon]

I've never had too much trouble with ZSS as long as I did everything to avoid that whip. Some ZSS's can really catch you up in some nasty combos if they get a chance to shock you. Basically as long as you keep your spacing tight, she's really light and dies very early.

Also the real point of that video was to show the kind of pressure/juggling MK can put on DK. Darkrain has definitely had better games though.

 

[isomorphism]

When we see Bum fight M2K in the promised NJ-NY matchup, M2K will win, because he's such an excellent player, but I think Bum will keep it close. Either way, with the best players playing MK it's hard to find an "equal" DK to test the matchup.

 

[Ripple]

When we see Bum fight M2K in the promised NJ-NY matchup, M2K will win, because he's such an excellent player, but I think Bum will keep it close. Either way, with the best players playing MK it's hard to find an "equal" DK to test the matchup.

that's because DK does not have an advantage IMO, even though M2K's main IS DDD. it is not meta, he has even said so

 

[JhMS]

About the meta topic:Which stages are best to counterpick versus him?
Thanks btw.

 

[Mr.Victory07]

Oh and i think you should add this to the Falco matchup; DK can escape the chaingrab from 0% with up-b

 

[itsthebigfoot]

on dk vs mk, its definitely dk's favor, and i back it up by pointing out that i've two stocked metaknights that are much better players than me repeatedly in seperate tournaments (he was ranked 4th in the state when i kept beating him)

if both players know the match, dk wins

as for zamus, she can't kill you until forever, and you kill her fairly early, its only bad online, definitely dk's favor

 

[AtotheZ]

that's because DK does not have an advantage IMO, even though M2K's main IS DDD. it is not meta, he has even said so

Thats not what I saw at FAST... He was meta until when he went to the grand finals with reflex

but on topic, I think DKs range, low killing percentage, and long living allow him to out class ZSS since she is kind of light.

 

[Wrap It Up]

I would like to see a match against Marth. He has be bugging me a little.
I spam Throws, and use my anti air game but I would like to see a guide on it. And your tips on fighting Falco and Snake helped me alot. Thie Mk better be good too.

Keep up the good work.

 

[JJR.O.B.]

- The speed
- The ability to combo, which doesnt really help KO DK just rack up damage.

There are no true combos in brawl only strings of attacks. Any string of attacks that MK does can be DIed out of which makes it not a combo

 

[Ripple]

There are no true combos in brawl only strings of attacks. Any string of attacks that MK does can be DIed out of which makes it not a combo

just because an attack can be DI ed out of does not make it not a combo. have you seen wolf's crazy combo that was discovered recently. its a 6 hit combo from about 20% to death and youi can not even air dodge it, only DI it. its still a combo though. same stuff in melee, just harder

 

[TKD]

PS: Here's that solid DK vs MK footage.(Not me playing of course)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkwGAdGGTF4&fmt=18

I don't know if Darkrain's good at Brawl, but the DK I saw in that vid was horrible at defense. I always tell the people that lose to me to stop air dodging into the ground. It sets yourself up. Besides, he didn't always DI away from the downthrow, and even got chaingrabbed wtf!

Goat wasn't great either though, good MK players have to do the mk dance: fair>dair (up to 5 of those)>nado. I don't think goat did that.

Still, my vote is DK>MK, 60/40. Wow, DK and Falco, nice! The future looks bright! I'd be completely disgusted if Brawl had a god tier character.

MK and Snake stay in top tier though. They're both the hardest characters to counter.

 

[Nicktendo]

Wow tkd really? 60/40 Dk vs Meta? You have to teach me the matchup then..I hate playing MKs with my DK, I like Diddy vs MK though. I usually beat Metas I play except Soid beat me.

 

[NJzFinest]

DK has so much room to make mistakes in this matchup, given the fact MK isn't that strong and DK is very heavy, plus the fact MK can die around 50/60%.

 

[Cyphus]

ya'll have been discussing MK for a month now? u guys suck

 

[Ripple]

so............... who wants to make a new match up thread?

 

[Linguini]

mk isnt that bad definitley 50-50 matchup.

im going to critical hit 4 in md/va should be interesting seeing as im top 3 in fl now,all DK baby! cept for d3,lol mk is my counter

 

[FBM]

DK's my secondary and Zamus is one of my mains and looking at it from both sides, it's pretty even.

Zamus' weakness here are lightness and spacing; she badly outranges a lot of characters, but only holds a small edge over DK (at least she can side-B in the air, which somewhat reduces DK's down-B power). However, she has very good KO power, especially for a light character, (a Zamus that's good with side-B's off the stage will own DK's ability to recover) and is particularly good at comboing heavy characters. Her speed and stun can be very disruptive too. Generally speaking, her weaknesses are to nimble characters that get inside her range and apply tons of pressure like Falco, Pika, and MK - not heavy characters. DK's massive range and godly power make up for this, but not enough to make it more than 50/50.

In the end, it comes down to skill: if the DK is patient, doesn't overcommit, and connects with his big guns, he's gonna win. But if Zamus can deal with the tougher spacing well and apply enough pressure when DK makes a mistake, she will come out on top.

Her foward B outranges you, and her zapper is annoying. And she's decent off the stage. All someone has to do is Down A twice and UpB to get you back down and repeat.

It doesn't work quite that well- you can tech out of the down-B - but it's easier to land it on DK than a lot of characters (b/c he's so big) and force the "get teching or get owned" situation. Dsmash's are big trouble over 100% - dsmash, dsmash, bair hurts - if it doesn't kill outright, you will be far off the stage and forced to deal with side-B's and f/bairs.

 

[The Director]

In a fight with a good DK vs a good MK, its pretty even. MKs top-tierness balances out DKs heavyweight bias.

It all comes down to defense, and sadly, MK can just spam tornado to bring that to his aid.

Watch:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRBC1M3FY5U

The tornado can counter DKs spin, down air, foward air and in some circumstances his punch. I'm probably an idiot for trying to beat it in the first place, tho. (headstrong, much?)

And to be honest, before going into that fight I COMPLETELY underestimated MK. I ignored all the top-tier talk and thought I was the ****. I was wrong.

 

[BBQ°]

Just to bring in some discussion, I feel we should discuss the DK vs G&W match up.

I feel that DK has the advantage. IMO, 60:40 in DK's favor, even possibly 65:35. I seriously think G&W doesn't have any advantages over DK, except the fact that G&W has an easier time killing him than other characters and that DK is easier to hit with nair and bair.

The key to doing well against G&W is to just know how to play him. Learn to powershield his aerials, learn when to drop your shield, know not to spot dodge, always expect a d-throw to d-smash so have the tech ready.

You also have to remember that you must kill G&W as soon as possible. In the last tournament I went to, I 3-stocked a G&W because I kept my spacing and killed G&W no higher than 80%. Granted, this G&W wasn't very good, but all the other G&W's I've had to verse, I either 2-stocked or 1-stocked without a problem.

Just use your tilts for spacing, save your back-throws, use 10-swing punches for big damage, and use 9-swing punches for kills. Down-b doesn't do much here since G&W is mostly in the air, but grounded up-b is good if you accidentally lag an aerial and use it's super armor frames to avoid getting knock back. Just remember that hardly any of DK's attacks will beat out G&W's aerials, so power shield them and punish with a grab before G&W has an opportunity to use a tilt.

 

[Ragnar0k]

Is the TC going to bring some order to this matchup thread? It's been on MK for probably a month. Everyone just keeps kinda talking about whoever they want to. Some people are trying to move on and talk about ZSS or G&W and other people have been talking about MK for a month.

 

[Ripple]

Is the TC going to bring some order to this matchup thread? It's been on MK for probably a month. Everyone just keeps kinda talking about whoever they want to. Some people are trying to move on and talk about ZSS or G&W and other people have been talking about MK for a month.

sadly no, brahma hasn't even been online since he last updated it. if you want to take charge of the match up discussion be my guest. create a new thread and choose thenext character. this thread is goining nowhere anyways. I'll just have a mod remove this

 

[Ragnar0k]

I might actually make another matchup thread. It will be sometime later today though because right now I'm about to go help someone with their eagle project. I'll probably just copypasta the first post of this on and add on to it in the new one.

 

[A2ZOMG]

If you make another matchup thread, I suggest we discuss the G&W or Mario matchup which I believe are controversial enough.

 

[Brahma]

You guys are more than welcome to discuss other matchups than the ones listed. I haven't been around much due to other commitments, but if anyone wants to do a writeup on any other character after discussion I'd be more than happy to post it up on the first page.