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Dixie Kong's Barrel Of Support Spirits. Farewell Everyone, Thank You ALL For Making This Thread An Excellent Place For DK Fans!

Arymle Roseanne

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Problematic for the 3DS in that they probably would have just separated them in Smash 4 the same way Samus/ZSS and Zelda/Sheik were. It would have been a win win, having them together in just Brawl, which I don't play anymore anyway, and having them as separated characters in Smash 4 and Ultimate, since they would both have to be brought back for Everyone is here and would probably stay separated like the above two examples. Pokemon Trainer only remained together in Ultimate and was cut in 4 because the Trainer literally cannot be a character without the three Pokemon being together, same with the Ice Climbers being always together. Samus/ZSS and Zelda/Sheik can work perfectly fine as individual characters and in fact work better as separated because the only thing sticking them together was a Down B and a convoluted Final Smash mechanism. I'm 99% sure Diddy and Dixie would have fallen into this camp and could have tolerated them being together for just one game where the story is seen as the strong point over the gameplay anyway, and just for the novelty purpose, which that game had plenty of, the same way I tolerated Samus/ZSS and Zelda/Sheik. Then individual Diddy and Dixie in Smash 4 and Ultimate like I said before.
Well you may have a point on that unfortunately the team up mechanic couldn't work properly during the development in Brawl and as I said before I would rather have them as separate fighters even from the start.
 

KirbyWorshipper2465

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Well two of those were super easy clones meant to pad out the roster. Wii Fit Trainer comes from one of Nintendo's most successful games of all time. Corrin was used to promote a new game. And Piranha Plant... I honestly don't know why he was chosen.

Either way, most of those guys got in out of pure luck. Dixie has just been unlucky to not have had a game released at the right time. I also somewhat blame "Everyone is Here" for her not making it. More priority was put on bringing back veterans so the amount of newcomers (that are not echo fighters) was very minimal compared to the last game. As far as non-echo newcomers go we got 6 and one of them ended up being a semi-clone. And I'm sure since Sakurai already spent time on K. Rool it wouldn't be fair that the Donkey Kong series got two non-echo newcomers while everyone else either got one or an echo.
So we got only ourselves to blame I guess (since fans wanted veterans to come back). At any rate though, at least the DKC series did manage to get a fair bit of love in spite of that this time, so it's one of the best things to come out of this situation.

Also, PP got in probably because they had to pick someone that's simple enough in design to finish in time for early DLC bonus. That, and the habit of capping off the base roster with a goofball, but an obscure NES or older character wouldn't have cut it this time.

Teaming up in battle might be an advantage, though, just look at Pokemon Trainer. Also, personally, I'd take over Dixie Kong as a part of a team over "she might maybe sometime can get in as her own fighter in the unforeseeable future", but that's just me.

That being said, Diddy's moveset now works very well with all of his specials, I can't think of replacing one.
Monkey paw: she's in a team, but with Kiddy Kong.
 
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Sabertooth

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That Diddy was originally conceived to partner up with Dixie actually gives me a lot of faith in the Smash team: they were looking at Diddy as a protagonist of the DKC series, not just Donkey Kong's Double Dash partner. Personally I would have loved this setup because it would have shown young gamers that the DK series is more than just Donkey and Diddy, there's a whole world to check out. And yeah, they probably would have been split up by Ultimate.

We've always been unsure of how exactly this would have worked, anyway. Was it a Pokemon Trainer situation, or more of an Ice Climber one where you can swap back and forth between the two climbers? The latter would have been really cool as it could've emulated the feel of playing Diddy's Kong Quest, with your partner Kong running behind you and awkwardly floating in the air.
 

KirbyWorshipper2465

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That Diddy was originally conceived to partner up with Dixie actually gives me a lot of faith in the Smash team: they were looking at Diddy as a protagonist of the DKC series, not just Donkey Kong's Double Dash partner. Personally I would have loved this setup because it would have shown young gamers that the DK series is more than just Donkey and Diddy, there's a whole world to check out. And yeah, they probably would have been split up by Ultimate.

We've always been unsure of how exactly this would have worked, anyway. Was it a Pokemon Trainer situation, or more of an Ice Climber one where you can swap back and forth between the two climbers? The latter would have been really cool as it could've emulated the feel of playing Diddy's Kong Quest, with your partner Kong running behind you and awkwardly floating in the air.
This makes me wonder: do you think they could take another similar stab at the gimmick, but with the 64 Kongs instead? A PT-like setup may work a little better with them, since you'd only need the tag barrel for it, especially since it would probably be too much of a hassle to have them take roster slots by themselves.
 

StormC

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This makes me wonder: do you think they could take another similar stab at the gimmick, but with the 64 Kongs instead? A PT-like setup may work a little better with them, since you'd only need the tag barrel for it, especially since it would probably be too much of a hassle to have them take roster slots by themselves.
I don't think the DK64 Kongs warrant the development time and resources to create three new characters.
 

KirbyWorshipper2465

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I don't think the DK64 Kongs warrant the development time and resources to create three new characters.
Okay, so otherwise I don't think the team-up mechanic is worth bringing back as an older unused concept anyways. (Besides, for all we know it would have somehow eventually led to Cranky Kong riding Funky's back like for Donkey Kong in Tropical Freeze.)

Not everything needs to be brought back like Ditto.
 
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RetrogamerMax

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That Diddy was originally conceived to partner up with Dixie actually gives me a lot of faith in the Smash team: they were looking at Diddy as a protagonist of the DKC series, not just Donkey Kong's Double Dash partner. Personally I would have loved this setup because it would have shown young gamers that the DK series is more than just Donkey and Diddy, there's a whole world to check out. And yeah, they probably would have been split up by Ultimate.

We've always been unsure of how exactly this would have worked, anyway. Was it a Pokemon Trainer situation, or more of an Ice Climber one where you can swap back and forth between the two climbers? The latter would have been really cool as it could've emulated the feel of playing Diddy's Kong Quest, with your partner Kong running behind you and awkwardly floating in the air.
I would think of it as more of a Pokemon Trainer, Zelda/Sheik, and Samus/Zero Suit Samus situation because, if they were to work exactly like they did together in DKC2 than they would be following each other throughout the whole match and you would be able to tag one or the other to switch characters which, is probably why the conspect was scrapped for Brawl because it was probably a nightmare to program and the game couldn't handle it.

This makes me wonder: do you think they could take another similar stab at the gimmick, but with the 64 Kongs instead? A PT-like setup may work a little better with them, since you'd only need the tag barrel for it, especially since it would probably be too much of a hassle to have them take roster slots by themselves.
I think it would be cool and easier to implement than the tag team duo conspect because there would only be one Kong on the screen at a time.

I don't think the DK64 Kongs warrant the development time and resources to create three new characters.
I think the Champions from Breath of the Wild would have a higher chance to get in the game with that cert of conspect than the 64 Kongs to be honest.
 

ChronoBound

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I finally finished World of Light (100% complete it). I really enjoyed it, and was a lot better than SSE. There were parts that got repetitive, but there were a lot of standout parts as well. The last act was particularly epic (the true ending act). I also loved that it gave roles to characters not on the roster (such as Bomberman being used to blow up boulders, or Pico being used to activate his F-Zero machine).

Overall, a very outstanding Adventure Mode.

As to the topic on hand, it would have been interesting to see what ideas Sakurai had in mind for his Diddy & Dixie tag team idea. However, with Diddy now in as a solo character, that would make Dixie's partner Kiddy Kong, whom is a very unpopular character (probably among the least popular playable character for the DK series). I do think she should have been re-tooled as a semi-clone late in Brawl's development. I really wonder if that would have happened if the SSE was simply more along the lines of Melee's adventure mode (at the very least we would have gotten Mewtwo, Roy, and Dr. Mario in Brawl).

I do not think Dixie Kong having been a character considered for playable status no longer has any merit for her prospects of getting in. The consideration for her inclusion and the efforts made towards such were over ten years ago, and if there was ever a time to revisit the ideas Sakurai and his team possibly had for a stand alone Dixie Kong, Smash 4 and Ultimate were it.

The debates regarding Dixie Kong's inclusion just goes to show the versatility of what even can be done with her, which makes it even the more perplexing why it simply has not happened yet. Tag-team or solo. Fully unique, semi-clone, or echo. She has lots of options available to her for inclusion. Probably more than most other characters. Yet, she is still not in yet.

Her biggest role yet in the Smash Bros. series is simply a Mii hat. The only other major veteran series category without any sort of major consolation prize is Bandana Dee (who simply only shows up as a spirit and profile icon).

Smash Bros. is looking pretty complete at this point (as of what the state of Nintendo franchises are in 2018). Dixie Kong and Bandana Dee are the only two major characters left without any sort of major role in Smash Bros. Rhythm Heaven also needs something whether it be just a stage or an Assist Trophy, Pilotwings, Balloon Fight, and Nintendogs are all represented through stages, so only a stage could suit that series fine.

However, on the whole Ultimate did a really fantastic job at giving notable characters some sort of remarkable role in the game, whether as being an AssistTrophy and/or a Mii costume.

Also, here is a fantastic piece of artwork with some of the three biggest heroines associated with Nintendo consoles:

samusdixieshantae.jpg



The interesting thing with Shantae is that both her series and her character design were both influenced by Samus and Dixie Kong. Metroid influenced the gameplay of her series, while Dixie Kong's pretensile hair influenced Shantae's own abilities.

Samus and Dixie Kong were both among my favorite gaming heroes in general during the 1990's, and it would be amazing to see Dixie Kong fight alongside Samus Aran for me personally.
 

KirbyWorshipper2465

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I finally finished World of Light (100% complete it). I really enjoyed it, and was a lot better than SSE. There were parts that got repetitive, but there were a lot of standout parts as well. The last act was particularly epic (the true ending act). I also loved that it gave roles to characters not on the roster (such as Bomberman being used to blow up boulders, or Pico being used to activate his F-Zero machine).

Overall, a very outstanding Adventure Mode.

As to the topic on hand, it would have been interesting to see what ideas Sakurai had in mind for his Diddy & Dixie tag team idea. However, with Diddy now in as a solo character, that would make Dixie's partner Kiddy Kong, whom is a very unpopular character (probably among the least popular playable character for the DK series). I do think she should have been re-tooled as a semi-clone late in Brawl's development. I really wonder if that would have happened if the SSE was simply more along the lines of Melee's adventure mode (at the very least we would have gotten Mewtwo, Roy, and Dr. Mario in Brawl).

I do not think Dixie Kong having been a character considered for playable status no longer has any merit for her prospects of getting in. The consideration for her inclusion and the efforts made towards such were over ten years ago, and if there was ever a time to revisit the ideas Sakurai and his team possibly had for a stand alone Dixie Kong, Smash 4 and Ultimate were it.

The debates regarding Dixie Kong's inclusion just goes to show the versatility of what even can be done with her, which makes it even the more perplexing why it simply has not happened yet. Tag-team or solo. Fully unique, semi-clone, or echo. She has lots of options available to her for inclusion. Probably more than most other characters. Yet, she is still not in yet.

Her biggest role yet in the Smash Bros. series is simply a Mii hat. The only other major veteran series category without any sort of major consolation prize is Bandana Dee (who simply only shows up as a spirit and profile icon).

Smash Bros. is looking pretty complete at this point (as of what the state of Nintendo franchises are in 2018). Dixie Kong and Bandana Dee are the only two major characters left without any sort of major role in Smash Bros. Rhythm Heaven also needs something whether it be just a stage or an Assist Trophy, Pilotwings, Balloon Fight, and Nintendogs are all represented through stages, so only a stage could suit that series fine.

However, on the whole Ultimate did a really fantastic job at giving notable characters some sort of remarkable role in the game, whether as being an AssistTrophy and/or a Mii costume.

Also, here is a fantastic piece of artwork with some of the three biggest heroines associated with Nintendo consoles:

View attachment 186545


The interesting thing with Shantae is that both her series and her character design were both influenced by Samus and Dixie Kong. Metroid influenced the gameplay of her series, while Dixie Kong's pretensile hair influenced Shantae's own abilities.

Samus and Dixie Kong were both among my favorite gaming heroes in general during the 1990's, and it would be amazing to see Dixie Kong fight alongside Samus Aran for me personally.
Sadly Gothic hates every single Spirit in the game except for the Pokémon LG ones, for some reason. :(

Pretty brill otherwise, she's even looking to get into the game industry some day.
 
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Parallel_Falchion

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We've always been unsure of how exactly this would have worked, anyway. Was it a Pokemon Trainer situation, or more of an Ice Climber one where you can swap back and forth between the two climbers?
I always thought it would be a bit of both. Like the trainer in that you can swap and they have largely unique movesets, like the climbers in that some attacks (probably their specials) utilize both Kongs and you're weaker if you lose one.
 

BirthNote

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Man! Dixie with separate eye sockets makes her look like she's related to Tiny instead of Diddy. I would LOVE for Nintendo to make that one little change to her, as well as bringing back the kneepads. It makes SUCH a difference!

The art is very much excellent too. Thanks for sharing, ChronoBound ChronoBound !
 

BluePikmin11

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Looking at Dixie's situation now, it's depressing to think that Dixie will likely not be playable in Ultimate. I wish Sakurai didn't make the decision to make her a Mii hat tbh.

(it's more depressing that Tom Nook gets left out in major characters needed in Smash too, I think he is also needed to complete the Nintendo all-stars line-up.)
 

InASnowBoundLand

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Dixie's spirit being upgradable into Dixie Kong + Kiddy Kong is very interesting.
So is also the fact that Dixie's spirit battle is actually an Isabelle.

Are these clues into how Sakurai sees Dixie? That Dixie, like most of us have argued, is NOT a clone or even a semi-clone?
And maybe more controversially, is this validation to those fans who think Dixie Kong would use Kiddy Kong in her moveset, e.g. spawning the hated baby from her ponytail and throwing the despised child like a rolling snowball? Could Dixie Kong's starring role in DKC3 be more important in Smash when she's included than some would like to think? Is an entire paragraph of questions excessive?
 
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KirbyWorshipper2465

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Looking at Dixie's situation now, it's depressing to think that Dixie will likely not be playable in Ultimate. I wish Sakurai didn't make the decision to make her a Mii hat tbh.

(it's more depressing that Tom Nook gets left out in major characters needed in Smash too, I think he is also needed to complete the Nintendo all-stars line-up.)
If it's either that or she gets nothing, I know which one I would prefer.
Well, look at it this way: :ultkrool:used to be a Mii costume, and that led to where he is now. That she even gets acknowledged to this level is the first step.

Dixie's spirit being upgradable into Dixie Kong + Kiddy Kong is very interesting.
So is also the fact that Dixie's spirit battle is actually an Isabelle.

Are these clues into how Sakurai sees Dixie? That Dixie, like most of us have argued, is NOT a clone or even a semi-clone?
And maybe more controversially, is this validation to those fans who think Dixie Kong would use Kiddy Kong in her moveset, e.g. spawning the hated baby from her ponytail and throwing the despised child like a rolling snowball? Could Dixie Kong's starring role in DKC3 be more important in Smash when she's included than some would like to think? Is an entire paragraph of questions excessive?
One thing for sure is, if it does eventually lead to music from that game being used next time, that is a good sign and I'm all for it.
 
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Crepuscular

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My biggest hope at this point is that the upcoming set of 5 DLC characters makes enough $$$ that Nintendo wants to keep it going for another round, AND that they will somehow decide to change course after set 1 (which, based on Joker and the associated rumors, seems to be pointing to primarily if not entirely 3rd party choices) and go back to fill out some Nintendo franchise representation, and we end up getting Dixie, Bandana Dee, etc.

A lot of 'ifs' here, I know. I do think that the Smash team has historically done a pretty good job of balancing the types of characters they include, down to the order they bring characters into the game though (ie, a classic character offset by a modern character, an expected character offset by a WTF character, etc.) so it doesn't feel like the most unlikely thing in the world.
 
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Diddy Kong

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Honestly a Wave 2 DLC would be great yes, but what might also help is there being Echo DLC characters. Not that Dixie might become one, but it helps the development team check in on characters that are easy to create out of the current cast of fighters, and that would be beneficial for Dixie. As we all said before, basically having Diddy with DK's Up B would be better than nothing.
 

RetrogamerMax

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Honestly a Wave 2 DLC would be great yes, but what might also help is there being Echo DLC characters. Not that Dixie might become one, but it helps the development team check in on characters that are easy to create out of the current cast of fighters, and that would be beneficial for Dixie. As we all said before, basically having Diddy with DK's Up B would be better than nothing.
I disagree because if she becomes a clone, she'll be a clone/semi-clone forever just like Ganondorf and Falco. So for me, it's either she's unique or she's not in at all because she doesn't deserve to have the same fate as Ganondorf and Falco who both should have been unique in the first place.
 
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KirbyWorshipper2465

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Honestly a Wave 2 DLC would be great yes, but what might also help is there being Echo DLC characters. Not that Dixie might become one, but it helps the development team check in on characters that are easy to create out of the current cast of fighters, and that would be beneficial for Dixie. As we all said before, basically having Diddy with DK's Up B would be better than nothing.
I disagree because if she becomes a clone, she'll be a clone/semi-clone forever just like Ganondorf and Falco. So for me, it's either she's unique or she's not in at all because she doesn't deserve to have the same fate as Ganondorf and Falco who both should have been unique in the first place.
If there is anyone I honestly want as a clone, it's Ms. Pac-Man. It's not too much to ask for, is it Bamco? I don't want her to be stuck in Pac-Land forever.
 
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Mushroomguy12

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I disagree because if she becomes a clone, she'll be a clone/semi-clone forever just like Ganondorf and Falco. So for me, it's either she's unique or she's not in at all because she doesn't deserve to have the same fate as Ganondorf and Falco who both should have been unique in the first place.
I mean, obviously I'd rather she be at least somewhat unique than a echo/clone, but I'd still rather have her in as that than not being in there at all, especially since the series has already hit its peak for this entry. Although if she doesn't get in this time, I probably wouldn't even care about next time since there would be a bunch of cuts and the series might not even look the same at that point.
 
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KirbyWorshipper2465

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To be fair, people still care about King Of Fighters after '98, and they certainly had a bunch of cuts afterwards. The bright side is, it would allow more newcomers to come, seeing as there wasn't much time for those this go-round.

Although I still can't help but wonder if everyone being brought back from earlier games isn't some groundwork laid out so they can be ported over more easily by the next time, since the characters in question already have established movesets and all.
 
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Reila

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As much as I want Dixie myself, I personally would prefer Diddy and Dixie to be separate fighters since I believe they have enough combative abilities for their own move sets plus the duo system would have been problematic for the 3DS considering what happened to Ice Climbers.

Not to mention I absolutely adore Diddy's solo move set, I don't feel like it would be the same if Dixie had to be stuck with him.
The Diddy and Dixie duo would have been cool if it was added that way at first, I think. Joining Diddy and Dixie at this point would be silly, it is a much better idea to give Dixie her own moveset and keep Diddy his own fighter, for sure.
To be fair, people still care about King Of Fighters after '98, and they certainly had a bunch of cuts afterwards. The bright side is, it would allow more newcomers to come, seeing as there wasn't much time for those this go-round.

Although I still can't help but wonder if everyone being brought back from earlier games isn't some groundwork laid out so they can be ported over more easily by the next time, since the characters in question already have established movesets and all.
It is hard to compare Smash and KOF, but yes, in theory they could cut fighters and add new ones in the next Smash. That said, with the "everyone is here" thing, I doubt there will be cuts from now on, unless something happens between Nintendo and one of the many third party companies connected to Smash. I don't see any first parties or SEGA fighters (Sonic, Bayonetta, Joker) going anywhere. So IMO expecting lots of fighters in future Smash is a mistake. It is my prediction that Smash 6 (7? If you count 3DS and Wii U separately) will focus on fleshing out echo fighters instead of adding a bunch of new fighters. Yeah, about five newcomers or so might happen, but 10~15? I doubt it.
 
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Koopaul

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Honestly a Wave 2 DLC would be great yes, but what might also help is there being Echo DLC characters. Not that Dixie might become one, but it helps the development team check in on characters that are easy to create out of the current cast of fighters, and that would be beneficial for Dixie. As we all said before, basically having Diddy with DK's Up B would be better than nothing.
I don't think it would be simple to just give her DK's Up special. DK has a very different anatomy and hitbox that translating it over to Dixie might be a tad more difficult. Now we know just how similar all the echo fighters are and how simple the changes they made were. In order for Dixie to be an echo it would have to be the same thing. However considering how many very different moves and animations Ken was given, a brand new spinning for Dixie might still be simple enough for them to give her. If they did make Dixie and echo, I'd hope they make as many changes as they did with Ken... But Ken seems to be an exception in the echo world.
 

TheYungLink

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I don't need Dixie to be unique, being a semi-clone would be a-ok by me. I just don't want her to be an echo because judging by Dark Pit and especially Lucina, it seems that if you're an Echo Fighter, you'll be an Echo Fighter forever with no further decloning. She needs to have SOME substantial differences from Diddy Kong.
 

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i feel like reception-wise it wont really matter what they do with her. if shes an echo/semiclone then people will just see her as "girl diddy" and if shes wholly unique people will just say "why did they waste resources on a character who's just girl diddy"

i care too much what other people think
 

StormC

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Is it bad to say I'm okay with Dixie being a Wolf/Lucas level semi-clone forever? I don't think she needs more than that. It would be nice but there's already plenty of wiggle room there.
 

Arymle Roseanne

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Is it bad to say I'm okay with Dixie being a Wolf/Lucas level semi-clone forever? I don't think she needs more than that. It would be nice but there's already plenty of wiggle room there.
Honestly I think that would be an ideal situation if she has to borrow a few things from Diddy and make a Wolf style version of his move set. Having entirely different A button moves while have drastically altered B Button moves would be alright to me.
 

Mary H.

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i feel like reception-wise it wont really matter what they do with her. if shes an echo/semiclone then people will just see her as "girl diddy" and if shes wholly unique people will just say "why did they waste resources on a character who's just girl diddy"

i care too much what other people think
Those are my exact fears. It's a bummer that a large amount of people in the Smash community who aren't DKC fans seem to dismiss the kong characters entirely.
 

InASnowBoundLand

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Okay, I used the sprites by PxlCobit (Dixie Kong MLSS style), Michael Peterson (Kiddy KOS style), and AJ Nitro (Mario) to show my ideas for Dixie's specials.


Dixie blows a bubble that hovers for a little bit before popping if nothing touches it. If an opponent goes into it, they get stuck for a while depending on their percentage. Dixie can only have one bubble at a time.

Dixie hovers like in DKC2 and DKC3, gaining more horizontal distance than vertical distance. Her spinning hair reflects projectiles and damages opponents that approach.


Dixie's hair grows upward and then forward a little bit in an arc, grabbing opponents that get in the way. She can move while she grabs opponents like Donkey Kong. Like Isabelle's fishing rod but with more vertical distance and Dixie can move once she grabs the opponent.


Dixie throws Kiddy Kong forward, who spawns from her hair because that's normal to keep hated babies in your hair. Kiddy rolls forward like a snowball, pushing opponents and projectiles that get in his way with him. He will eventually stop rolling. Dixie has to go collect Kiddy to use the move again. However, Kiddy can be hurt by opponents. If he is hurt by opponents enough, or if he falls of the stage, he will disappear for a while and won't be usable until he respawns.

Dixie has an extra jump where her hair propels her upward as it works in Tropical Freeze.
 

StormC

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Why not just use the weapon that actually lets her shoot bubble gum in Tropical Freeze?

I don't personally like the idea of Dixie having Bayonetta hair, but eh.
 
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Okay, I used the sprites by PxlCobit (Dixie Kong MLSS style), Michael Peterson (Kiddy KOS style), and AJ Nitro (Mario) to show my ideas for Dixie's specials.


Dixie throws Kiddy Kong forward, who spawns from her hair because that's normal to keep hated babies in your hair. Kiddy rolls forward like a snowball, pushing opponents and projectiles that get in his way with him. He will eventually stop rolling. Dixie has to go collect Kiddy to use the move again. However, Kiddy can be hurt by opponents. If he is hurt by opponents enough, or if he falls of the stage, he will disappear for a while and won't be usable until he respawns.

Dixie has an extra jump where her hair propels her upward as it works in Tropical Freeze.
The B move with Kiddy is interesting... made me chuckle imagining a baby gorilla appearing out of nowhere.

I'd prefer a steel keg to be thrown or a move involving an animal buddy(they probably work better as assist trophies but meh), barrels are an important part of DK gameplay more so than Kiddy :p , obviously a series staple and may fit better overall.

Nice little compilation of DKC tunes here:

Some of these aren't my cup of tea, but the Haunted Chase remix at 55:35 is my favourite. Doesn't stray too far and builds on the original magnificently. The panicky vibe and fast pace sounds like it would be ideal for a frantic battle in Smash!
 
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InASnowBoundLand

Smash Lord
Joined
May 2, 2014
Messages
1,453
What would the animal buddies do? I feel like the animal buddies in a moveset sound cooler because thematically or aesthetically it would be cool to have animal buddies playable in some way, but I can't think of moves that would be that interesting or that fitting for Dixie in particular. In reality, they don't really fit.

One obvious one I have seen included a lot is Squawks. But I'm not sure his abilities are compatible with Dixie. Like flying would take some of Dixie's thunder with her hair. Squitter could trap people with webs but then agian I think Dixie's bubblegum is a more natural fit. Speaking of which, not only is it cooler to shoot gum straight out of your mouth, but it's also more iconic for Dixie to be seen blowing bubble gum than to be shooting it through a gun.

Maybe an animal buddy as-summons moveset could be interesting in the same way a Paper Mario with partners as summons could be. But I don't think it fits Dixie in particular, whose gimmick is her hair.

And Kiddy Kong actually is a very successful character. Most people don't know this but he was actually designed by the creators of Scrappy Doo, who were trying to create a character that would make Scrappy Doo look good. This is a fact and I did not just make it up cause I like to post nonsense. Stop deleting my edits, Mario Wiki.
 

Sabertooth

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 26, 2018
Messages
621
Love that moveset. Love everything. Keep it up guys. The Twitter is moving along at a steady pace with a nice variety of content. I'll definitely be posting my own ideas concerning Palutena's Guidances and Snake Codecs for Dixie Kong at some point, whenever I get the chance to sit down and write them.

SeashoreWar SeashoreWar 's art has been a huge asset to the Twitter. People REALLY took to that Mario Kart DLC art.
 
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ChronoBound

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 20, 2006
Messages
8,998
Man! Dixie with separate eye sockets makes her look like she's related to Tiny instead of Diddy. I would LOVE for Nintendo to make that one little change to her, as well as bringing back the kneepads. It makes SUCH a difference!

The art is very much excellent too. Thanks for sharing, ChronoBound ChronoBound !
No problem. I am glad that you liked it.

Looking at Dixie's situation now, it's depressing to think that Dixie will likely not be playable in Ultimate. I wish Sakurai didn't make the decision to make her a Mii hat tbh.

(it's more depressing that Tom Nook gets left out in major characters needed in Smash too, I think he is also needed to complete the Nintendo all-stars line-up.)
I think the fact that all the DLC characters after Piranha Plant is most likely going to be third-party means more for dismal prospects as DLC than the fact she got a Mii hat.

I am personally glad that she received some sort of acknowledgement outside of a spirit and a profile icon. Just look at Bandana Dee who only got a spirit and a profile icon. Its gotten to the point where Dee supporters now wish he was at least an Assist Trophy.

If it's either that or she gets nothing, I know which one I would prefer.
If given that ultimatum (a Mii hat or nothing), most would pick the Mii hat since it is at least acknowledgement. A lot of the new Mii costumes in Ultimate were pretty great. They gave the minor Nintendo franchise guys (Chibi Robo, Ray MKIII, Lip, Isaac) a pretty nice consolation prize. Skull Kid is another one (though for a veteran franchise) introduced that is pretty great (it actually looks like Skull Kid and not just a Mii wearing an outfit if you put the outfit on a very, dark-skinned Mii).

That being said, I wish Dixie had a full Mii costume like the others did, especially considering the nice amount of detail that went into the beret and ponytail.

Dixie's spirit being upgradable into Dixie Kong + Kiddy Kong is very interesting.
So is also the fact that Dixie's spirit battle is actually an Isabelle.

Are these clues into how Sakurai sees Dixie? That Dixie, like most of us have argued, is NOT a clone or even a semi-clone?
And maybe more controversially, is this validation to those fans who think Dixie Kong would use Kiddy Kong in her moveset, e.g. spawning the hated baby from her ponytail and throwing the despised child like a rolling snowball? Could Dixie Kong's starring role in DKC3 be more important in Smash when she's included than some would like to think? Is an entire paragraph of questions excessive?
I certainly think it is a possibility to be sure. Co-op and tag-teaming was a big part of the DKC series (both Rare's and Retro's titles), so it is definitely a possibility that it is a concept used if Dixie Kong ever make it in.

One thing for sure is, if it does eventually lead to music from that game being used next time, that is a good sign and I'm all for it.
Yeah, it is a bit disappointing DKC3 is the only major DK title without any sort of music in Ultimate. Even Jungle Climber had a track rip in Ultimate.

Thinking about it more. A lot of major late SNES/SFC titles received absolutely no music in Ultimate. Kirby's Dream Land 3 is the only major Kirby title without a track in Ultimate, and Fire Emblem Thracia 776 is flat out the only Fire Emblem game without music in Ultimate. Aside from those, the only other big music absence that comes to mind is Metroid Prime 3 not having a single track (and Dark Samus's battle theme from either Prime 2 or Prime 3 being absent in general).

My biggest hope at this point is that the upcoming set of 5 DLC characters makes enough $$$ that Nintendo wants to keep it going for another round, AND that they will somehow decide to change course after set 1 (which, based on Joker and the associated rumors, seems to be pointing to primarily if not entirely 3rd party choices) and go back to fill out some Nintendo franchise representation, and we end up getting Dixie, Bandana Dee, etc.

A lot of 'ifs' here, I know. I do think that the Smash team has historically done a pretty good job of balancing the types of characters they include, down to the order they bring characters into the game though (ie, a classic character offset by a modern character, an expected character offset by a WTF character, etc.) so it doesn't feel like the most unlikely thing in the world.
I would hope so too. However, at the same time, even if we got another five newcomers after the fighter's pass, and all five were Nintendo characters, there is absolutely no guarantee that one of them would be Dixie Kong, or that she would even be likely. However, it would certainly make us Dixie fans a lot more hopeful about her being included on Ultimate's roster.

To be fair, people still care about King Of Fighters after '98, and they certainly had a bunch of cuts afterwards. The bright side is, it would allow more newcomers to come, seeing as there wasn't much time for those this go-round.

Although I still can't help but wonder if everyone being brought back from earlier games isn't some groundwork laid out so they can be ported over more easily by the next time, since the characters in question already have established movesets and all.
Sakurai has said that "Everyone is here" is most likely a one time thing that was only able to happen due to "special" circumstances (part of the reason why this game's name is "Special" in Japan). Even looking at Ultimate, the price of the playable character and stage count being so high, came at the cost of side modes (like Home Run Contest, Stage Builder, some form of Target Test). There are no infinite resources for game development.

There are many possible directions that the next title can go in, but my assumption is that Sakurai realizes Ultimate is likely the pinnacle for raw playable character and stage count, and probably thinks that another hook is going to be needed for the next title aside from "bigger and better". I imagine that this might also be part of the reason why Sakurai also jokingly said that it would not be so bad if it was ten years until the next Smash Bros. game is released.

I do think the next game is definitely going to see cuts, but how many is what will be the subject of innumerable debates in the years to come.

Personally, I am very glad that all of Smash Bros.'s veterans were able to come back at least for more than one game. The only thing left I really want to see for the roster at this point is Dixie Kong, but I am deeply endeared with "everyone is here" that I do not feel like sticking around for another six or seven years (or possibly more) just for her. Ultimate's roster happening the way it did was such a profound miracle in my book. Not only did everyone actually manage to come back, but my single most wanted newcomer for nearly 20 years somehow also made it in despite Sakurai handing him a hard deconfirmation only a year before development on Ultimate started, and Castlevania being added in when it seemed "the core" barely cared about it.

It is hard to compare Smash and KOF, but yes, in theory they could cut fighters and add new ones in the next Smash. That said, with the "everyone is here" thing, I doubt there will be cuts from now on, unless something happens between Nintendo and one of the many third party companies connected to Smash. I don't see any first parties or SEGA fighters (Sonic, Bayonetta, Joker) going anywhere. So IMO expecting lots of fighters in future Smash is a mistake. It is my prediction that Smash 6 (7? If you count 3DS and Wii U separately) will focus on fleshing out echo fighters instead of adding a bunch of new fighters. Yeah, about five newcomers or so might happen, but 10~15? I doubt it.
See the above response I wrote for my thoughts on whether "everyone is here" will happen for the next title. I think cuts are definitely going to happen unfortunately. How much is another question. We might very well get a reboot that cuts veterans that have consistently been in the series since their debut in Melee and Brawl (heck, even Jigglypuff might be vulnerable to being cut).


Okay, I used the sprites by PxlCobit (Dixie Kong MLSS style), Michael Peterson (Kiddy KOS style), and AJ Nitro (Mario) to show my ideas for Dixie's specials.


Dixie blows a bubble that hovers for a little bit before popping if nothing touches it. If an opponent goes into it, they get stuck for a while depending on their percentage. Dixie can only have one bubble at a time.

Dixie hovers like in DKC2 and DKC3, gaining more horizontal distance than vertical distance. Her spinning hair reflects projectiles and damages opponents that approach.


Dixie's hair grows upward and then forward a little bit in an arc, grabbing opponents that get in the way. She can move while she grabs opponents like Donkey Kong. Like Isabelle's fishing rod but with more vertical distance and Dixie can move once she grabs the opponent.


Dixie throws Kiddy Kong forward, who spawns from her hair because that's normal to keep hated babies in your hair. Kiddy rolls forward like a snowball, pushing opponents and projectiles that get in his way with him. He will eventually stop rolling. Dixie has to go collect Kiddy to use the move again. However, Kiddy can be hurt by opponents. If he is hurt by opponents enough, or if he falls of the stage, he will disappear for a while and won't be usable until he respawns.

Dixie has an extra jump where her hair propels her upward as it works in Tropical Freeze.
That is a very inventive take on Dixie Kong. Thank you for sharing it. This really goes to show just how much "flexibility" there is with Dixie Kong. There are different routes you can take with her as an unique character, a lot of varying interpretations of how she would work as a semi-clone, as well as a bunch of ideas for how she could be included as an echo.

Love that moveset. Love everything. Keep it up guys. The Twitter is moving along at a steady pace with a nice variety of content. I'll definitely be posting my own ideas concerning Palutena's Guidances and Snake Codecs for Dixie Kong at some point, whenever I get the chance to sit down and write them.

SeashoreWar SeashoreWar 's art has been a huge asset to the Twitter. People REALLY took to that Mario Kart DLC art.
Keep up the good work. This is going to be a long battle. Unfortunately, it is also one that I do not feel like sticking around for. I really cherish Dixie Kong, but I am at a point of my life where I do not want to spend a significant portion of my free time campaigning for game characters and speculating on things to which I am only seeing a portion of the "chessboard". Ultimate was also 95% of what I always dreamed of for Smash Bros.

I am sorry, but its just not in me anymore. I still want to give something to Dixie fans that they can use in the future, and I hope my Dixie Kong essay will be it.

Those are my exact fears. It's a bummer that a large amount of people in the Smash community who aren't DKC fans seem to dismiss the kong characters entirely.
Honestly I think that would be an ideal situation if she has to borrow a few things from Diddy and make a Wolf style version of his move set. Having entirely different A button moves while have drastically altered B Button moves would be alright to me.
i feel like reception-wise it wont really matter what they do with her. if shes an echo/semiclone then people will just see her as "girl diddy" and if shes wholly unique people will just say "why did they waste resources on a character who's just girl diddy"

i care too much what other people think
Is it bad to say I'm okay with Dixie being a Wolf/Lucas level semi-clone forever? I don't think she needs more than that. It would be nice but there's already plenty of wiggle room there.
I don't need Dixie to be unique, being a semi-clone would be a-ok by me. I just don't want her to be an echo because judging by Dark Pit and especially Lucina, it seems that if you're an Echo Fighter, you'll be an Echo Fighter forever with no further decloning. She needs to have SOME substantial differences from Diddy Kong.
I don't think it would be simple to just give her DK's Up special. DK has a very different anatomy and hitbox that translating it over to Dixie might be a tad more difficult. Now we know just how similar all the echo fighters are and how simple the changes they made were. In order for Dixie to be an echo it would have to be the same thing. However considering how many very different moves and animations Ken was given, a brand new spinning for Dixie might still be simple enough for them to give her. If they did make Dixie and echo, I'd hope they make as many changes as they did with Ken... But Ken seems to be an exception in the echo world.
I mean, obviously I'd rather she be at least somewhat unique than a echo/clone, but I'd still rather have her in as that than not being in there at all, especially since the series has already hit its peak for this entry. Although if she doesn't get in this time, I probably wouldn't even care about next time since there would be a bunch of cuts and the series might not even look the same at that point.
I disagree because if she becomes a clone, she'll be a clone/semi-clone forever just like Ganondorf and Falco. So for me, it's either she's unique or she's not in at all because she doesn't deserve to have the same fate as Ganondorf and Falco who both should have been unique in the first place.
Honestly a Wave 2 DLC would be great yes, but what might also help is there being Echo DLC characters. Not that Dixie might become one, but it helps the development team check in on characters that are easy to create out of the current cast of fighters, and that would be beneficial for Dixie. As we all said before, basically having Diddy with DK's Up B would be better than nothing.
I want to get to all of these responses individually. I want to go into great detail about the unique, semi-clone, or echo debate regarding Dixie Kong since I did not think I ever touched upon it in great detail before. I hope Dixie fans look forward with what I will have to say.
 

SeashoreWar

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 19, 2018
Messages
297
Did some more character icons for MK, because why stop at just adding Dixie! Next will be more vehicle ideas, but those are more complicated so that will probably take longer :laugh:



https://imgur.com/Astapje

Edit: Should have tagged Sabertooth Sabertooth from the beginning in case it's something they wanna use for twitter!
 
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Crap-Zapper

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 9, 2013
Messages
2,116
Location
Lost Woods
3DS FC
3540-1100-9470
Did some more character icons for MK, because why stop at just adding Dixie! Next will be more vehicle ideas, but those are more complicated so that will probably take longer :laugh:



https://imgur.com/Astapje
This is Amazing!
I got MK8:D, but I would love for the game to continue.
K. Rool, Diddy and Dixie are my most wanted, but never really thought about Cranky for Mario Kart, but I think he would be real cool too.
Funky? Yeah, he worked in MK Wii, so, why not.
 
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