Direct grab follow ups (the on going Sheik video guide by saviorslegacy)

[saviorslegacy]

New video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flcyvEvP_Sw

We need a detailed Sheik video guide.
I mean seriously.. all we have is Ankoku's 1 year old video and this vid that I made: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruOdTdBCTno
Now that I look back at that video I'm like: "Some of it is wrong, half of Sheik isn't covered and why on Earth am I GR> f-tilting Falco?"

Just look at what the Mario mains have done: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4S2UDbBIVw

That vid right there is epic.
We need to do something like that.

If no one else steps up to the plate to help I'll do it but it'll probably take a lil while.
I want this done before Christmas though.


BTW, I want a video series for Sheik like that to play into Project: Know it All.
So East, everyone else, what should we do?


Since Sheik's meta game is sooooo massive (as far as options) I say it need to be super broke down.
A main menu that leads to Project: Know it All (so they can read about everything while they are watching) and to things like Chain, Needle's, Vanish, DACUS, Boost Walking, f-tilt, GR's, footstool (), and more.
Each thing like chain will have a sub menu.
I say that instead of making a video showing each and every option in it because Sheik is still evolving, and IMO pretty fast.


So what say ye?
(and no, I will no start on this any time real soon... well.... maybe if I have a little bit of time on Saturday, or Friday)

 

[East]

Remember when Ankoku was making that detailed informational video about sheik's moves? None of you sent in videos.... It's not like we don't have anything to pull from [look at the amount of videos in the video thread], pardon my harshness, but it's true, you guys are just lazy when it comes to community projects.

 

[Ochobobo]

I agree we do need a Sheik video guide. I'll try to help in anyway I can. Let me know if you need footage or something edited.

By the way, how far did Ankoku get with his noble attempt at making a video guide?

 

[East]

According to my knowledge, I was the only person to send in a video.

 

[Tristan_win]

Yeah...the sheik forum isn't very good on working on group projects but now that I can record videos I might be useful this time around...

Might being the key word.

 

[saviorslegacy]

Yeah...the sheik forum isn't very good on working on group projects but now that I can record videos I might be useful this time around...

Might being the key word.

Actually the recording is really easy.


What needs to be done is how we are going to set it all up.

 

[gm jack]

I suspect the trouble is going to be how integrated everything is with Sheik. We could do it on a move my move basis, but needle and vanish gliding are too similar to separate. Too many moves link to too many others, so we will have bits and bobs everywhere.

I suggest that it could be organised into tactical sections, such as defence, pressuring, approaching, edge guarding, gimping and killing. That way, things could be linked together in subsections dealing with individual moves. For example, killing could have a subsection including DACUS and grab release, her smashes, Ftilt to Usmash and air move kills. Just an idea.

 

[saviorslegacy]

I suspect the trouble is going to be how integrated everything is with Sheik. We could do it on a move my move basis, but needle and vanish gliding are too similar to separate. Too many moves link to too many others, so we will have bits and bobs everywhere.

I suggest that it could be organized into tactical sections, such as defence, pressuring, approaching, edge guarding, gimping and killing. That way, things could be linked together in subsections dealing with individual moves. For example, killing could have a subsection including DACUS and grab release, her smashes, Ftilt to Usmash and air move kills. Just an idea.

I figured that.


That's why I suggested a main menu that branches into MANY root menu's.

K, here is my opinion on the Main menu and the root menu's:


Main Menu

• jab's, d-tilt, u-tilt, Dash Attack, grabs and smash's
• f-tilt
• DACUS
• airials
• Vanish
• Chain
• Needle Storm
• advance game play

jab's, d-tilt, u-tilt, Dash Attack, grabs and smash's

• jab cancel and jab pressuring at the ledge, d-tilt crawl, smash's and dash attack.. as a.... nothing (just mention it)
• Juggling with throws
• Grab Release's (links too Innocent Roads vids)

f-tilt

• all combo's that can be performed with it
• f-tilt> USmash (deserves its own video)
• Swan
• Saltus

DACUS would be it's own video showing all DACUS options and combo's

airials

• Bair/Fair/Nair spacing and auto canceling
• my combo which I don't feel like further releasing
• gimping with Bair, Fair and Nair
• Dair recovery/Dair stalling

Vanish

• Vanish canel
• Vanish Catch
• Vanish Glide

Chain

• Chain Lock and Reverse Chain Lock
• Chain Jacket
• Chain Camping

Needle Storm

• Needle Canceling. Also show airial Needle's and ground Needle's
• Needle Boosting
• Needle Glide

Advance Game Play

• OoS options
• Boost Walking
• Naritake Step
• others, ect.

^^^^^^^ My personal opinion.
Anyone objecting/wanting to add?

 

[gm jack]

Way too much in the first section. Proper use of each move takes some serious explaining.

 

[professor mgw]

All there were was 8 pictures and music....

 

[gm jack]

Each picture is a link to a tutorial video.

 

[saviorslegacy]

Each picture is a link to a tutorial video.

Each dot is a new video....

 

[Bsrk_]

The key thing to think about is how many videos do you want to have individually_ If you want to cram alot of info into one video then fine, but i would prefer the path of having smaller videos specializing on each technique and incorporating them into Project KiA, then looking at creating a larger, menu based video with possible sub menus_

It probably sounds like a pain but would make perfect sense_ Simply clicking on say the 'Grounded attacks' menu will bring up a list of each attack linking to a brief video made about it_ If we make all the necessary videos for Project KiA then it would be a breeze to then create a menu, submenu style video that would give ALL the information in a precise and easily understood way_

This would avoid cramming too much info into one video, allows easier community participation by submitting a video on a specific action/ technique, and easier communication to the audience through a simple to access menu system that allows specific choosing on what people want to know_

My theory is just to pretend your audience is lazy and accommodate to them_

 

[saviorslegacy]

My theory is just to pretend your audience is lazy and accommodate to them_

^^^^ LMAO!!!!

@ everything else you said:
We are like minded.


BTW, welcome to the boards.

 

[East]

This is actually pretty funny. Ankoku was working on a vid had a preview, had it set-up, and was going to make it. You guys finally get into the idea, and pretend it never happened. No one even brought up the idea of asking Ankoku. Way to use your resources Sheik boards. Way to use your resources...

 

[saviorslegacy]

This is actually pretty funny. Ankoku was working on a vid had a preview, had it set-up, and was going to make it. You guys finally get into the idea, and pretend it never happened. No one even brought up the idea of asking Ankoku. Way to use your resources Sheik boards. Way to use your resources...

I have talked to Ankoku recently on AIM and he doesn't want anything to do with the Sheik boards.


:EDIT:
I have the menu done. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gbe19spjBzk

Now I really hate getting all of the freakin pictures. If y'all want to help get me some pictures please.
Anything up there is wanted.

 

[Xyro77]

Do you have the same problem as i do? Cant get anybody to help you with projects?

oh and that shiek menu **** is AWESOME(theres no depth to it)! I might make one for the samus boards

 

[saviorslegacy]

Do you have the same problem as i do? Cant get anybody to help you with projects?

oh and that shiek menu **** is AWESOME(theres no depth to it)! I might make one for the samus boards

Yes but I don't need anyone's help. The only thing I would want is for someone to make the other menu's. Unfortunately I doubt it will meet my expectations and with the background that I want (I want these video's to be done to the best of my ability) so they would probably waist their time. I guess if people would go get me Sheik photos of her performing grab, f-tilt and other things (will update later) that would be very very very helpful.

What do you mean there no depth to it?

 

[Zankoku]

I have talked to Ankoku recently on AIM and he doesn't want anything to do with the Sheik boards.

I never said anything of the sort. If you're referring to the conversation from September, it went as follows:

(9:11:41 PM) saviorslegacy: I have a queation
(9:12:03 PM) saviorslegacy: in your opinoin.. have I been handeling myself on the board better?
(9:12:16 PM) Ankoku: I don't know.
(9:12:24 PM) saviorslegacy: ?
(9:12:35 PM) saviorslegacy: you don't check it out?.....
(9:12:42 PM) Ankoku: I've been paying very little attention to the Sheik boards because it's not worth it to me.

 

[saviorslegacy]

I never said anything of the sort. If you're referring to the conversation from September, it went as follows:

(9:11:41 PM) saviorslegacy: I have a queation
(9:12:03 PM) saviorslegacy: in your opinoin.. have I been handeling myself on the board better?
(9:12:16 PM) Ankoku: I don't know.
(9:12:24 PM) saviorslegacy: ?
(9:12:35 PM) saviorslegacy: you don't check it out?.....
(9:12:42 PM) Ankoku: I've been paying very little attention to the Sheik boards because it's not worth it to me.

Your reference is correct.
I guess I took you wrong.

 

[thexsunrosered]

Your reference is correct.
I guess I took you wrong.

lmao **** Ankoku has his **** together

 

[Zankoku]

 

[thexsunrosered]

yeah wow, I just looked at my post and it looks pretty bad. I wouldn't have thought dam would require asterisks

 

[stealth3654]

I figured that.


That's why I suggested a main menu that branches into MANY root menu's.

K, here is my opinion on the Main menu and the root menu's:


Main Menu

• jab's, d-tilt, u-tilt, Dash Attack, grabs and smash's
• f-tilt
• DACUS
• airials
• Vanish
• Chain
• Needle Storm
• advance game play

jab's, d-tilt, u-tilt, Dash Attack, grabs and smash's

• jab cancel and jab pressuring at the ledge, d-tilt crawl, smash's and dash attack.. as a.... nothing (just mention it)
• Juggling with throws
• Grab Release's (links too Innocent Roads vids)

f-tilt

• all combo's that can be performed with it
• f-tilt> USmash (deserves its own video)
• Swan
• Saltus

DACUS would be it's own video showing all DACUS options and combo's

airials

• Bair/Fair/Nair spacing and auto canceling
• my combo which I don't feel like further releasing
• gimping with Bair, Fair and Nair
• Dair recovery/Dair stalling

Vanish

• Vanish canel
• Vanish Catch
• Vanish Glide

Chain

• Chain Lock and Reverse Chain Lock
• Chain Jacket
• Chain Camping

Needle Storm

• Needle Canceling. Also show airial Needle's and ground Needle's
• Needle Boosting
• Needle Glide

Advance Game Play

• OoS options
• Boost Walking
• Naritake Step
• others, ect.

^^^^^^^ My personal opinion.
Anyone objecting/wanting to add?

Just do what the Mario boards did. Make the menu nice and simple. If you are really going to go through with this, this is how I think the menu should be:

Main menu:

• Jab, Tilts, and Dash Attack
• Smashes
• Grabs and Throws
• Needles
• Specials
• Advanced

The sub menu for jab, tilts, and dash attack is:

• Jab
• Forward tilt
• up tilt and down tilt
• dash attack

Sub menu for smashes is:

• Up smash
• Forward smash and down smash

Grabs and throws do not need a sub menu

Needles does not need a sub menu

Sub menu for specials is:

• Vanish
• Chain (I think it's possible to cover chain locking and chain camping in one video)
• Transform

Sub menu for advance is:

• Edge guarding
• Out of Shield Options
• Momentum Cancelling
• Recovering
• etc.

 

[Tristan_win]

I got all of tomorrow free after 12 so I'll collect some videos for the vanish. I'll be fun since I haven't master my new toy yet.

edit: Also Savior your video has really taught me something useful about sheik. Thank you.

 

[saviorslegacy]

Just do what the Mario boards did. Make the menu nice and simple. If you are really going to go through with this, this is how I think the menu should be:

Main menu:

• Jab, Tilts, and Dash Attack
• Smashes
• Grabs and Throws
• Needles
• Specials
• Advanced

The sub menu for jab, tilts, and dash attack is:

• Jab
• Forward tilt
• up tilt and down tilt
• dash attack

Sub menu for smashes is:

• Up smash
• Forward smash and down smash

Grabs and throws do not need a sub menu

Needles does not need a sub menu

Sub menu for specials is:

• Vanish
• Chain (I think it's possible to cover chain locking and chain camping in one video)
• Transform

Sub menu for advance is:

• Edge guarding
• Out of Shield Options
• Momentum Cancelling
• Recovering
• etc.

That is way to simple for a character that has more options than Mario.
I would rather make a guide that any Sheik main period would want to watch. Not just new Sheik trying to learn her.

I got all of tomorrow free after 12 so I'll collect some videos for the vanish. I'll be fun since I haven't master my new toy yet.

edit: Also Savior your video has really taught me something useful about sheik. Thank you.

With all due respect I would rather do it. I want them all to use that Zelda song and maybe a few other mix's. I also want them all to be in the same format.

ty

 

[Tristan_win]

That is way to simple for a character that has more options than Mario.
I would rather make a guide that any Sheik main period would want to watch. Not just new Sheik trying to learn her.

With all due respect I would rather do it. I want them all to use that Zelda song and maybe a few other mix's. I also want them all to be in the same format.

ty

Alright then, I'll leave it to you.

..If I may make a suggestion though, when your doing the vanish please show the following

That if you space correctly you can have little landing lag with the vanish

Demonstrated the spacing distance for doing on stage vanishes so that you can reappear on a platform or more impotently the ledge.

Show vanish gliding and how to shorten the distance

Talk about and maybe show how to shorten on stage vanish distance

That if you roll toward the ledge and soon afterwords start a vanish (or needles) that you will fall of the ledge/platform.

That if you hold away from the ledge you wont grab it and then demonstrate how you can use this with the up B.

It also might be worth noting the wind effect but I don't know how you would correctly show how useful it really is without another person helping you or much trial and error in training mode.

As far as frame data goes I recommended using a hybrid between of InnocentRoad data and for whatever he doesn't have use Ankoku's. Both of which can be found in Ankoku thread.

edit: ...I think that's everything......

Oh talk about how the vanish has a long lasting hit box, it's not talk about anywhere on the forums really.

 

[thexsunrosered]

try to talk about the effect of the wind on hitstun too

 

[Zankoku]

Wind has no effect on hitstun.

 

[thexsunrosered]

Wind has no effect on hitstun.

Yes it does. It puts the person into a tumble animation if they're caught in it during hitstun. Thats why if you vanish onstage you'll sometimes catch them if you go up in their direction.

 

[Zankoku]

You seem to be confusing cause and effect.

 

[thexsunrosered]

You seem to be confusing cause and effect.

Well I know that the tumble only happens when someone is in hitstun, but after they're hit by the wind, they can't do anything until the tumble animation ends or they hit the ground. Basically what I'm saying is that when it happens the person is in an extended form of hitstun, the first from the initial hit and the second stun from the wind and tumble animation.

 

[Zankoku]

I've actually been punished straight out of my Vanish after hitting someone and catching him with the wind, so I'm gonna go ahead and believe that your opponent was doing it wrong.

 

[thexsunrosered]

I've actually been punished straight out of my Vanish after hitting someone and catching him with the wind, so I'm gonna go ahead and believe that your opponent was doing it wrong.

Do you remember how, or the situation at least?

 

[Zankoku]

Yeah, I hit Meta Knight with a Vanish, caught him with wind, he air-dodged into the ground and dsmashed me before I landed.

 

[Judo777]

Yea Ankoku is right opponents can hit u right out of a vanish catch before they touch the ground. Its just most of the time people are surprise by the catch that they don't react in time.

And i thought that the earlier mentioned format isn't too simple for sheik i think it sounded good. Moves like Boost Walking and Needle Boosting really should not be incorporated until u are at a much higher level of the game and at that point you have to find your own application to the technique so i dont think i guide is the right approach for those things.

 

[saviorslegacy]

Yea Ankoku is right opponents can hit u right out of a vanish catch before they touch the ground. Its just most of the time people are surprise by the catch that they don't react in time.

And i thought that the earlier mentioned format isn't too simple for sheik i think it sounded good. Moves like Boost Walking and Needle Boosting really should not be incorporated until u are at a much higher level of the game and at that point you have to find your own application to the technique so i dont think i guide is the right approach for those things.

It does true combo at higher percents. MK can get caught until like 180%.
So at some point Vanish catching is legit.

I use those two techniques for one reason... and that is because it improves my spacing.
When you main someone with such short range your spacing game NEEDS to be above par.

ps Fair has the equal reach to Bair.
If you want proof I'll upload a video.

 

[<π]

why would you try to vanish catch at 180 though?

sheik doesn't short range. boost walking is legit I still am not using it yet though. what is needle boosting again?

I'd love to see a video proving fair's reach

 

[saviorslegacy]

why would you try to vanish catch at 180 though?

sheik doesn't short range. boost walking is legit I still am not using it yet though. what is needle boosting again?

I'd love to see a video proving fair's reach

You wouldn't. I am just saying that it stops after that.
Since Vanish catching deals with over all hit stun and making them fall down when they should still be flying away in hit stun at a certain percent it should be a true combo.
IDK what that is though. Fast faller and people with a big bulk would be combo'd at lower percents no doubt.

With an over all comparison to everyone else... yes she is short ranged.
Your judgment is clouded because she has a lot of moving hit box's and it appears like she has good range.
Go into training and fast fall straight down using Bair. You will notice that they have to be pretty close.
f-tilt, u-tilt, Bair, DSmash, FSmash, Vanish and Chain are her best long ranged moves.
Needle's are a projectile so no duh.
DACUS is a moving hit box.
(When I say moving hit box I mean that Sheik is moving so the hit box is moving with her.)

I will make the vid later tonight then.

 

[Zankoku]

You wouldn't. I am just saying that it stops after that.
Since Vanish catching deals with over all hit stun and making them fall down when they should still be flying away in hit stun at a certain percent it should be a true combo.
IDK what that is though. Fast faller and people with a big bulk would be combo'd at lower percents no doubt.

Nope. Sheik doesn't reappear fast enough to slam anyone into the ground fast enough to force a combo, since her Vanish would send into tumble at higher percents, meaning they can air-dodge on frame 13 no matter how much hitstun they get.