Difficult Matchups? - Ask Matchup Questions Here

[ORANGEtheGORILLa]

How to deal with peach and her RIDICULOUS b spam. Like whatever move I use any peach player can spam out of it. Double fair combo... B. Esp with her great aerials and annoying turnip/stich.

 

[291C]

How to deal with peach and her RIDICULOUS b spam. Like whatever move I use any peach player can spam out of it. Double fair combo... B. Esp with her great aerials and annoying turnip/stich.

I mean, there's only one good answer... don't attack.

If it's her get out a jail free card, pull back your attacks before she uses it. i has a lot of lag after using it, so punishing afterwards shouldn't be too hard.

 

[Noa.]

Peach's counter is like really slow. Like slow as molasses. It's even possible to activate it with an aerial and with proper spacing and aerial movement you can dodge the spores. The active frames are pretty short on toad counter and there is tremendous ending lag. So just bait it out and punish.

 

[PSIBoy]

How to deal with peach and her RIDICULOUS b spam. Like whatever move I use any peach player can spam out of it. Double fair combo... B. Esp with her great aerials and annoying turnip/stich.

Peach's counter is like really slow. Like slow as molasses. It's even possible to activate it with an aerial and with proper spacing and aerial movement you can dodge the spores. The active frames are pretty short on toad counter and there is tremendous ending lag. So just bait it out and punish.

Yeah, Peach's counter is actually one of the worst in the game, I think. It shouldn't be as annoying as dealing with Marth or Little Mac's counters, though, and you just gotta bait them out too.

 

[ORANGEtheGORILLa]

its just that the timing is so different from any other counter. it sometimes catches me off gaurd but thanks

 

[Luco]

Rosalina will not be able to control Luma when she has been grabbed in the wii U version.

Guys, this means our grab game and effective combo game is back in action versus these guys.

The match-up is no longer the hell it once was, when combined with a 13 second Luma respawn time! <3

 

[Lavani]

Rosalina will not be able to control Luma when she has been grabbed in the wii U version.

Guys, this means our grab game and effective combo game is back in action versus these guys.

The match-up is no longer the hell it once was, when combined with a 13 second Luma respawn time! <3

Keep an eye on the pink Rosalina (starting at upper left). She gets grabbed and her luma performs an ftilt and nair during it.

Sorry, we all wanted to believe, but the dream is dead.

EDIT: This is actually a lot more obvious (from 1:44 in the same video):

 

[Luco]

Keep an eye on the pink Rosalina (starting at upper left). She gets grabbed and her luma performs an ftilt and nair during it.

Sorry, we all wanted to believe, but the dream is dead.

It took me a while to find the moment you were talking about, but the luma actually performs those actions after she's thrown.

Someone mentioned they'd been playing Rosalina in the wii U version and it was legit.

EDIT: No wait I found it. Hmm, now i'm not sure -_-

 

[PSIBoy]

Rosalina will not be able to control Luma when she has been grabbed in the wii U version.

Guys, this means our grab game and effective combo game is back in action versus these guys.

The match-up is no longer the hell it once was, when combined with a 13 second Luma respawn time! <3

Still, in the recovery area we are still at a complete and utter disadvantage if Rosalina knows what her down-b can do against PKT...

But, other than that, yeah, the matchup just got significantly better now that Ness can safely use his throw combo game now.

 

[ORANGEtheGORILLa]

this kinda deconfirms any sign of iceclimbers dlc, yet its still a good advantage for ness and lots of other characters that have problems with her

 

[PSIBoy]

this kinda deconfirms any sign of iceclimbers dlc, yet its still a good advantage for ness and lots of other characters that have problems with her

How does this deconfirm Ice Climbers?

Other than Rosalina, what other matchups are generally bad for Ness?

 

[Luco]

EDIT: This is actually a lot more obvious (from 1:44 in the same video):

Ahh, but here the attacking Rosalina's Luma is the one using aerials, rather than the defending one.

 

[Lavani]

Ahh, but here the attacking Rosalina's Luma is the one using aerials, rather than the defending one.

I'm not sure if you're looking at the right Luma. The green Luma belongs to green Rosalina, performs a nair while she's grabbed, and then follows her through the air after she's thrown but gets kicked by red Rosalina.

At any rate, I didn't mean to start this as its own point of conversation; the main point I wanted to make is that there's only been hearsay about the Luma grab nerf while there's video footage that seems to point to the contrary, so at the least I'd wait until Wii U release/1.0.4 before celebrating throws becoming free against Rosa.

 

[Luco]

I'm not sure if you're looking at the right Luma. The green Luma belongs to green Rosalina, performs a nair while she's grabbed, and then follows her through the air after she's thrown but gets kicked by red Rosalina.

At any rate, I didn't mean to start this as its own point of conversation; the main point I wanted to make is that there's only been hearsay about the Luma grab nerf while there's video footage that seems to point to the contrary, so at the least I'd wait until Wii U release/1.0.4 before celebrating throws becoming free against Rosa.

Ahh, I went back and checked and you're right, so i'm not sure what this means at this point.

The dream could indeed be dead. I'd be sad.

 

[ORANGEtheGORILLa]

because of 1.0.4 ness has a debuff. but a huge buff against other players. the only thing that changed was his down throw. it only does 7% instead of 9%. but everything else is the same. lots of other characters got lag starups to certain moves which helps the ness casue. VIVA LA NESSA LOCA

 

[Code Bread]

Not a big debuff compared to every other character. This is great.

 

[ORANGEtheGORILLa]

I feel like ness has a huge chance against rosa and greninja.

 

[Uffe]

Keep an eye on the pink Rosalina (starting at upper left). She gets grabbed and her luma performs an ftilt and nair during it.

Sorry, we all wanted to believe, but the dream is dead.

EDIT: This is actually a lot more obvious (from 1:44 in the same video):

I was told that if you pummel Rosalina, Luma will be able to attack. But if you don't pummel, Luma can't move. I'm not sure if this is true, and I can't test this since I don't have a Wii U.

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

Luma can attack any time while Rosalina is grabbed thrown or pummeled (except when taking damage).

 

[Tikao]

so it's safe to dthrow her after all, which is realy great for ness in this MU

 

[ORANGEtheGORILLa]

Ness op for smash 4 confirmed thread.

 

[Code Bread]

I kind of feel like so many characters got buffed by the new controls that Ness might not be as prevalent anymore.

 

[ORANGEtheGORILLa]

thanks to the new controls I find ness to be faster and smother overall. even being able to compete with Yoshi's and Rosalina

 

[Dr. Eggplant]

Hey guys, wondering if you have tips for a Marth matchup? Aside from his range making it hard to approach, any time I so much as get knocked off stage a decent distance he can jump off stage and use a counter on my PK Thunder 2 recovery.

 

[thesage]

I kind of feel like so many characters got buffed by the new controls that Ness might not be as prevalent anymore.

How is being able to precisely aim pkt not a huge buff to Ness?

 

[Code Bread]

How is being able to precisely aim pkt not a huge buff to Ness?

I don't know whether to answer this legitimately for the sake of anti-humor or just be a sarcastic ass like usual.
Ness isn't the only character that got buffed. There are fifty other characters that benefited from the new controls. Think about that. And since when was PKT hard to control in the first place?

 

[Luco]

Hey guys, wondering if you have tips for a Marth matchup? Aside from his range making it hard to approach, any time I so much as get knocked off stage a decent distance he can jump off stage and use a counter on my PK Thunder 2 recovery.

Hmm, to be honest i'd be surprised to hear Marth is outranging you, unless he's timing it perfectly we should be able to do things to him.

My advice would be to try OoS Nairs if at close range and try shielding his aerials (marth mains tend to be a bit predictable with their aerial games) and punishing if possible!

Everybody got buffed by the new controls but Ness' core gameplan is still very solid imo, I can't see the C-stick being that big of a deal for him but I could be wrong.

 

[DLC]

I found Ikes to be difficult at first. Then I played against Ikes only on lvl 9 cpu. He is a hefty fellow indeed.

 

[Noa.]

I suggest that you don't play against computers. You'll pick up habits that work against them but not humans.

 

[C0rvus]

Marth may have range, but most of his moves, especially aerials when landed, are not safe on shield. Play it safe and get your free grabs. Poke him with PK Fire, but remember he can mash out a counter while on fire. Respect his tipper range and nair out of shield if you can't grab. Marth is a shadow of his past self, and Ness is in his prime.

 

[Dustiletto]

I've been playing Ness since 64 and I've gotta say that he's really looking good in this game! In past games there always seems to be matchups that cripple him so much that he goes beyond the point of unusable. And it's glad to see my favorite Earthbound kid finally get a break and be usable!

As for matchups, with 1101 FG matchups under my belt (and most of them as Ness.) I can still definitely say he struggles in a couple areas.

To start off, Rosalina is an obvious one, she can render most of Ness' ranged game useless due to her insane Down B, against Rosalina is seriously a matchup I have to focus on if I want to win as Ness. It's definitely not in your favor, but it's also by no means unwinnable. You may just want to play a bit more defensively than usual and wait for Rosalina to attack first.

Next is Robin, who might as well be the Fire Emblem version of Ness. Well, okay, not really. But a good Robin can basically keep Ness out from my experience, his projectiles seem to cover all options, and magnet can only help so much depending on how well you can read/react to them. Robin's levin sword is also dangerous for Ness to approach, making it very easy for him to smash you out of shield.

And while I haven't had too much experience, only fighter 2 competent users of said character, Diddy Kong seems to basically shut Ness DOWN. It's kind of scary actually. If they're accurate with their 'nanas, don't expect to recovery, seriously.

 

[ORANGEtheGORILLa]

I'm having problems with wii u rob. His camping game is too strong. And he is able to reflect pkf. Sometimes rob players spam it a lot. Although I usally beat rob players because of his laggy aireals he can still be a huge problem.

 

[PSIBoy]

I'm having problems with wii u rob. His camping game is too strong. And he is able to reflect pkf. Sometimes rob players spam it a lot. Although I usally beat rob players because of his laggy aireals he can still be a huge problem.

I have trouble with ROB players in general. I think I saw somewhere that the only thing you can do really is to outsmart them, read them and punish them for their mistakes. ROB may just be a bad matchup for Ness and most other characters in general, or I just simply stink in the matchup.

 

[Ranias]

I'm having problems with wii u rob. His camping game is too strong. And he is able to reflect pkf. Sometimes rob players spam it a lot. Although I usally beat rob players because of his laggy aireals he can still be a huge problem.

If he uses his Side B alot, I will try to predict it and shield it until he finishes (it takes a while) or try to jump and counter it with a PKT2 or something.

I have trouble with ROB players in general. I think I saw somewhere that the only thing you can do really is to outsmart them, read them and punish them for their mistakes. ROB may just be a bad matchup for Ness and most other characters in general, or I just simply stink in the matchup.

He's not that bad. He has a really slow fall that you can abuse with PK Thunder and Up Air juggle.

You can also reflect his gyro with the bat or absorb his laser. Timing against his laser is annoying, but you can try to watch for the blinking light on his head (I know of this thanks to the in-game tip).

 

[PSIBoy]

If he uses his Side B alot, I will try to predict it and shield it until he finishes (it takes a while) or try to jump and counter it with a PKT2 or something.

He's not that bad. He has a really slow fall that you can abuse with PK Thunder and Up Air juggle.

You can also reflect his gyro with the bat or absorb his laser. Timing against his laser is annoying, but you can try to watch for the blinking light on his head (I know of this thanks to the in-game tip).

He may not be the best in the air, but on the ground it seems like he runs circles around Ness. Mind you he's not unbeatable, but you have to work a lot harder for your win and abuse shield grabs, magnet absorption, PK Fire on Gyro, PKT2 mindgames, that kind of stuff.

Edited because I freak over grammar.

 

[Luco]

R.O.B. is one of those stupid match-ups that feels much worse than it actually is. I'd be tempted to say in reality it's even, or possibly even our favour due to how hard we wreck that robot offstage; but, and this was the same in Brawl, it FEELS like a -1 or -2 because if you mess your spacing up or he gets a good read you just get hit by the same stupid, silly, spammy stuff over and over and feel like a total idiot hahah.

My advice against him is play patiently, but aggressively. You do have to play smart. If he uses side B into you, just hold shield for all of it (remember it's deceptively long though) and as soon as he's done you should be able to punish him for it even if he moves away. As for the rest of his game, if Pk Fire isn't working don't be afraid to just play footsies (basically space Fairs/Nairs and try to poke him out of his shield so you can begin to follow up with stuff) until you can do things. Combos without PK Fire still work, but they require you to get that first 11-15% on by yourself (because Dthrow --> Fair is actually extremely hard to do at 0% by itself as opposed to 15%).

And as soon as you get him offstage have a freaking field day. The choice is yours; harass with PKT, continually push him out with Fair, Bair to try and stage spike or keep away from the ledge... yeah he's not going to have a fun time.

 

[Noa.]

I've played against a couple ROBs and I don't see any reason that the matchup would be difficult for us. His large frame and floatiness make him very susceptible to pk thunder juggling. If you have that on point you'll wrack up a lot of free damage on him. It's also really easy and reliable to combo him. His laser comes out slowly enough that if you are quick enough I think you can almost psi magnet it on reaction. You have to be ready to anticipate it though.

 

[Luco]

I've played against a couple ROBs and I don't see any reason that the matchup would be difficult for us. His large frame and floatiness make him very susceptible to pk thunder juggling. If you have that on point you'll wrack up a lot of free damage on him. It's also really easy and reliable to combo him. His laser comes out slowly enough that if you are quick enough I think you can almost psi magnet it on reaction. You have to be ready to anticipate it though.

Unfortunately we have to predict his laser, I consider my reaction time to be pretty good; but gosh darn if I could Magnet on reaction to a laser i'd consider myself godlike. XD

It's probably because Magnet's startup is relatively slow.

 

[Noa.]

Meh I suppose I was just baiting it out and predicting. My mistake lol. I still find it relatively easy to magnet.

 

[Luco]

Meh I suppose I was just baiting it out and predicting. My mistake lol. I still find it relatively easy to magnet.

Baiting it out is fine, and many ROB players use it when you're offstage, so it's like going against Lucario (another MU that for some reason even at top levels of play I see Ness mains healing like 60% lol).

You're right though in that he's a pretty big hitbox. That's why footsies against him works so well, and our followups feel so satisfying on him. :D