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**Diddy Kong [Old] General Match-Ups**
- Thread starter Vyse
- Start date
Player-1
Smash Legend
Do a doubles week? I say PT and Lucas since we've already done Kirby.
Coyn3Masta
Smash Journeyman
dayum, i just re-read all of this ic matchup discussion, it helped me ALOT with the matchup <_>
brinboy789
Smash Champion
in metaknight, you got aerial mobility wrong. MK's aerial mobility is one of the worst in the game
Dekar173
Justice Man
Glide, tornado, glide again due to SL, FB, cape.
He got aerial mobility correct. Or do you not think a MK is going to use any of those tools?
AvaricePanda
Smash Lord
MKs direct aerial mobility is one of the worst in the game, but his tools he has in the air and his overall air game like fair, uair, tornado, glide, cape, shuttle loop, etc., make it amazing. That's why you generally don't want to go after him in the air, because you can think that a bair or uair or whatever will get him, and he just shuttle loop or tornado or something to get you.
One of the best ways of punishing MK is when he is in the air. Fair/Uair after he does a Dair or Fair. You can peanut him out of his glide if at a distance->glide toss banana, perfect shield->grab, or clash with a Fair...If you are above him in the air, your pretty much screwed, but otherwise its not that bad for Diddy to attack MK in the air, just make sure your staying near the ground using SH aerials and space well and you should be safe.
What do you guys do against campy Wolves? How do you punish jump shine?
At first I was like 'Yeah, a double week sounds good, especially as we head down the tier list'.
But then I figured we might as well discuss Lucas and Ness at the same time.
So you guys get a triple week.
It'll probably last more than a week though (as usual), so take you time and discuss each in detail.
But then I figured we might as well discuss Lucas and Ness at the same time.
So you guys get a triple week.
It'll probably last more than a week though (as usual), so take you time and discuss each in detail.
pastaboy
Smash Champion
hmmm lucas. he can gimp you rediculously easy. When you are recovering try not to be predictable and limit the use of your rocket barrels. His Pkt can *** u up during your up B ,and he can do it has many time as he likes at NO RISK.
i think that works with ness as well, not to sure.
i think that works with ness as well, not to sure.
ADHD
Smash Hero
Grab release > dtilt is a true combo on ness unless he DI's away (which is rarely ever the first reaction.)
pastaboy
Smash Champion
if their at high percents you mite as well through them.
does the grab release include grab jabs?
does the grab release include grab jabs?
Lucas:
never spot dodge against lucas. thats basically it :\ avoid nair and avoid pk fire. spacing is key here, gimps are sort of essential, just dont be stupid in this match, lucas can kill as early as 70-90% with his smashes so dont make any punishable airdodges or spotdodges. id say 55-45 diddy. its rather hard fighting a lucas who spams nair and uptilt :\ or fighting patient lucas like galeon/c. diddy mindgames> them.
Ness:
Beware the upB. seriously pkthunder will literally **** u with gravel lube! avoid and be cautious EVERY time a ness uses his upb it can kill. it can gimp. it can follow up O_<
side b must be avoided it can lead to follow ups such as grabs into arials and when off stage if hit it in the middle of the air u can easily be spiked
watch out for dair as it can cuz a hitstun long enough for another arial such as nair or upair.
anytime ur above 100% dont get grabbed. back throw can kill.
fair is his greatest spacing tool same with his bair
55-45 diddy maybe even 50-50. its just frustrating seeing urself die at 35% from a silly mistake. dont make mistakes it will cost u in this match. mindgames ftw
grab release them both. fair/bair often. dnt be afraid when they have nanas as they have a very crappy gt. a upward angled ftilt is **** here as along with running upsmash when they jump. ur versatile just mix and match :3 mindgames argh argh!
never spot dodge against lucas. thats basically it :\ avoid nair and avoid pk fire. spacing is key here, gimps are sort of essential, just dont be stupid in this match, lucas can kill as early as 70-90% with his smashes so dont make any punishable airdodges or spotdodges. id say 55-45 diddy. its rather hard fighting a lucas who spams nair and uptilt :\ or fighting patient lucas like galeon/c. diddy mindgames> them.
Ness:
Beware the upB. seriously pkthunder will literally **** u with gravel lube! avoid and be cautious EVERY time a ness uses his upb it can kill. it can gimp. it can follow up O_<
side b must be avoided it can lead to follow ups such as grabs into arials and when off stage if hit it in the middle of the air u can easily be spiked
watch out for dair as it can cuz a hitstun long enough for another arial such as nair or upair.
anytime ur above 100% dont get grabbed. back throw can kill.
fair is his greatest spacing tool same with his bair
55-45 diddy maybe even 50-50. its just frustrating seeing urself die at 35% from a silly mistake. dont make mistakes it will cost u in this match. mindgames ftw
grab release them both. fair/bair often. dnt be afraid when they have nanas as they have a very crappy gt. a upward angled ftilt is **** here as along with running upsmash when they jump. ur versatile just mix and match :3 mindgames argh argh!
For poke'mon trainer, I play against Steeler, who is one of the best poke'mon trainers in the nation, weekly and I team with him pretty often too. Squirtle is an annoying little ****er. He's so God **** small and he'll grab release to jab all day, especially with that sliding grab ****. Also, since he's so small and fast, it's really hard to get good hits with bananas in on him. It's not awful though, Squirtle is 50/50.
Ivysaur...Lol. Just kill him. Don't even worry, but don't always grab the ledge, people have the assumption that if you grab the ledge Ivysaur will die...not true...
Charizard is a little tricky. You want to play really aggressive, which made sense in my mind, but honestly, the Charizard Diddy match-up is pretty much rock smash. If you play too aggressivly and trip up once. Charizard will catch up instantaneously.
I don't know the Ness match-up.
I used to play ChaosXTheory's Lucas until he quit. I'll post about it later when I'm not as lazy.
Ivysaur...Lol. Just kill him. Don't even worry, but don't always grab the ledge, people have the assumption that if you grab the ledge Ivysaur will die...not true...
Charizard is a little tricky. You want to play really aggressive, which made sense in my mind, but honestly, the Charizard Diddy match-up is pretty much rock smash. If you play too aggressivly and trip up once. Charizard will catch up instantaneously.
I don't know the Ness match-up.
I used to play ChaosXTheory's Lucas until he quit. I'll post about it later when I'm not as lazy.
MetaMeeks
Smash Apprentice
Living in MI, I've never really played a good PT or Lucas but I've played a Ness that knew what he was doing. Another hassle (other than the dangers of PK Thunder) I've noticed is Ness always stealing your naners. His fair allows him to catch them pretty easily and will almost always beat you to the punch by outprioritizing Diddy's aerials so you have to be really careful with your down B and make sure you give yourself plenty of time to grab them. If not, Ness will be benefiting from your bananas as much as you do.
I myself personally know about how to deal with Lucas as well as Play as him since I second Diddy yet main Lucas.
On Diddy's Part His Nanners can mess up Lucas's great ground game which any light character should be cautious of if they dont have to many options but Diddy has a few.
Grab Release works well against Lucas unless they DI away then you should use it sparingly. Your Air game and movement can easily exceed his and it will pressure the Lucas if he has to jump over nannerz but he might be able to get them or around them if he is using SHNair a lot but that is pretty easy to punish at the right time.
For Lucas I would say that PK Fire can make Diddy keep his distance with his nannerz and if you must jump over in the air a Dair should work fine. Ftilt a Diddy if they get to close and follow up if it is at low/mid percents, Other then that space them with PK Fire. PK Thunder Edge Guarding can gimp a Diddy sometimes but not completly reliable if your getting predictable.
Well as for Lucas part I would say the match up was about 55-45 since Diddy has a advan with the nannerz and better approaching options.
On Diddy's Part His Nanners can mess up Lucas's great ground game which any light character should be cautious of if they dont have to many options but Diddy has a few.
Grab Release works well against Lucas unless they DI away then you should use it sparingly. Your Air game and movement can easily exceed his and it will pressure the Lucas if he has to jump over nannerz but he might be able to get them or around them if he is using SHNair a lot but that is pretty easy to punish at the right time.
For Lucas I would say that PK Fire can make Diddy keep his distance with his nannerz and if you must jump over in the air a Dair should work fine. Ftilt a Diddy if they get to close and follow up if it is at low/mid percents, Other then that space them with PK Fire. PK Thunder Edge Guarding can gimp a Diddy sometimes but not completly reliable if your getting predictable.
Well as for Lucas part I would say the match up was about 55-45 since Diddy has a advan with the nannerz and better approaching options.
Nitrix
Smash Ace
For PT:
Ivysaur: Not that much of a threat. Sure he can be annoying when he is on-stage, but once you get him offstage things get easy.
Squirtle: Now things get annoying lol. Squirtle is very annoying for Diddy to deal with and he can glide-toss into his U-Smash which hurts alot
.
Charizard: Rock Smash is deadly when spaced well. Other than that he really isn't that crazy. Charizard is just really heavy and has Rock Smash. I'd say this match is slightly in Diddy's favour.
Diddy 65:35 Ivy
Diddy 50:50 Squirtle
Diddy 55:45 Charizard
Ivysaur: Not that much of a threat. Sure he can be annoying when he is on-stage, but once you get him offstage things get easy.
Squirtle: Now things get annoying lol. Squirtle is very annoying for Diddy to deal with and he can glide-toss into his U-Smash which hurts alot
. Charizard: Rock Smash is deadly when spaced well. Other than that he really isn't that crazy. Charizard is just really heavy and has Rock Smash. I'd say this match is slightly in Diddy's favour.
Diddy 65:35 Ivy
Diddy 50:50 Squirtle
Diddy 55:45 Charizard
yeah diddy soft counters ivy, it's just too slow. if you don't have naner control then ivy has excellent spacing and can keep you out very well though. 65:35 at worst (or best in diddy's case). i think it's 60:40 if the ivy knows how to handle bananas well, bair is very annoying for diddy, along with ivy's decent ground spacing.
squirtle is even or has a slight advantage. keep in mind that he can use the naners more effectively than you can, can gimp you well, and beats you in the air due to the great difference in aerial mobility.
charizard is so weird. this is really really momentum based because obviously diddy can **** zard's fat *** with naner **** but if zard gets you in a grab or rock smash...you are in trouble. great gimp game, almost as good as squirtle's (quite a bit clunkier to use) and rock smash can combo into a grab or usmash, or can gimp off stage. an extra aerial jump helps a LOT in dealing with naners. good juggle traps even though i don't know how to use them well. i think diddy without bananas is pretty nice for charizard because he can grab you out of pretty much everything. by that, i mean pretty much EVERYTHING. 55:45 diddy favor.
squirtle is even or has a slight advantage. keep in mind that he can use the naners more effectively than you can, can gimp you well, and beats you in the air due to the great difference in aerial mobility.
charizard is so weird. this is really really momentum based because obviously diddy can **** zard's fat *** with naner **** but if zard gets you in a grab or rock smash...you are in trouble. great gimp game, almost as good as squirtle's (quite a bit clunkier to use) and rock smash can combo into a grab or usmash, or can gimp off stage. an extra aerial jump helps a LOT in dealing with naners. good juggle traps even though i don't know how to use them well. i think diddy without bananas is pretty nice for charizard because he can grab you out of pretty much everything. by that, i mean pretty much EVERYTHING. 55:45 diddy favor.
Coyn3Masta
Smash Journeyman
....lolwut, diddy ***** ivy that hard... yet doesn't **** charizard o.O?For PT:
Ivysaur: Not that much of a threat. Sure he can be annoying when he is on-stage, but once you get him offstage things get easy.
Squirtle: Now things get annoying lol. Squirtle is very annoying for Diddy to deal with and he can glide-toss into his U-Smash which hurts alot
Charizard: Rock Smash is deadly when spaced well. Other than that he really isn't that crazy. Charizard is just really heavy and has Rock Smash. I'd say this match is slightly in Diddy's favour.
Diddy 65:35 Ivy
Diddy 50:50 Squirtle
Diddy 55:45 Charizard
Diddy 60:40 Ivy
Diddy 50:50 Squirtle
Diddy 65:35 Charizard
i think its more like this... but meh <_>
Nitrix
Smash Ace
I agree with you. 60:40 seems like a good ratio for Diddy and Ivy.
Charizard can get back to the stage
Player-1
Smash Legend
I've fought Reflex's PT twice in tournaments he has beaten me twice, once 2-1 and another 2-0, and his Ivy gave me more trouble than his zard, Squirtle is too hard =(
Kaptain Kong
Smash Lord
charizard isnt that hard of a match up, you just gotta keep your distance and peanut popgun a lot
Zard's flamethrower on the ledge can be painful considering Diddy's sucky ledge options. That's the only thing i fear about Zard, since you can combo him and he can't. Oh, and his grabs lol
Camp squirtle. One time or another he'll get weak and the opponent will either have to kill you like that or switch to ivy, which is win-win
Camp squirtle. One time or another he'll get weak and the opponent will either have to kill you like that or switch to ivy, which is win-win
ChocoNaner
Smash Journeyman
Ivy is 60-40 or 65-35: Razor leaf won't give you problems unless you stand there and take it or try and beat her with peanuts. Vine whip and bullet seed are both kinda useless as offensive attacks. Her aerials have exploits, they're all slow(Dair and Fair), or are weak(Nair and Bair). Uair is the only exception being strong and fast. She's like a lighter sandbag that can move. Gimping counts too.
Squirtle is 50-50 or 55-45: Squirts' agility and floatiness makes him hard to handle, he's not far below Diddy with his naner game. Aerials are quick, spammable, and spaceable all at the same time. His dash attack and D/Fsmashes are his worst attacks that exclude specials. Withdraw is the truly only bad special, water gun can make the m. flip useless(it can push it back almost full length). Only problem is KO'ing after the stamina effect kicks in.
Dunno about Zard. I'd say 60-40 or 55-45. Space yourself when he's going to rock smash. Grab when you can and avoid being close to him, he has the grab range of D3. >.> Also, grounded zard > air zard without nanerz, vice versa with nanerz.
I play both + have exp. on fighting both with each character. Ness and Lucas tomorrow.
Squirtle is 50-50 or 55-45: Squirts' agility and floatiness makes him hard to handle, he's not far below Diddy with his naner game. Aerials are quick, spammable, and spaceable all at the same time. His dash attack and D/Fsmashes are his worst attacks that exclude specials. Withdraw is the truly only bad special, water gun can make the m. flip useless(it can push it back almost full length). Only problem is KO'ing after the stamina effect kicks in.
Dunno about Zard. I'd say 60-40 or 55-45. Space yourself when he's going to rock smash. Grab when you can and avoid being close to him, he has the grab range of D3. >.> Also, grounded zard > air zard without nanerz, vice versa with nanerz.
I play both + have exp. on fighting both with each character. Ness and Lucas tomorrow.
Advent Lee
Smash Ace
I consistently play the "best" Lucas in the country (Galeon the Beast lolz) in tourny. I'm not sure about the conventional way of playing Diddy, because I do have my own style but I can say that the match up is pretty easy once you learn all of Lucas little tricksies. Like them batting the banana or how they recover. The only real fear I have against Lucas is if I am off stage and they PK Thunder. That is so gay, but the Monkey Flip Kick takes care of that if you have enough time and range to make it. Other than that Lucas is pretty easy especially since most Lucas players stay on the ground short hopping, makes it easy to shoot them with a Peanut Gun LoLz.
I can get a lot more detailed in the match up if anyone wants to know more about it, just a lil lazy right now...
-advnt-
I can get a lot more detailed in the match up if anyone wants to know more about it, just a lil lazy right now...
-advnt-
pls do lee. just so i know the tricks C/galeon will use against me.
Count
Smash Champion
I too think Lucas is anyeasy matchup. I haven't played a lucas to Advent's level, but I did play the MW's top lucas and I beat him in a mm 2-1..and two stocked him on both of the regular stages we played one (He beat me on pirate ship
)
I agree with steeler, charizard is harder than ivysaur, imo. However, I don't have much PT experience. Le thien plays probably the best pokemon trainer not named reflex on a regular basis (Chuck Nasty) so maybe he can elaborate.
)I agree with steeler, charizard is harder than ivysaur, imo. However, I don't have much PT experience. Le thien plays probably the best pokemon trainer not named reflex on a regular basis (Chuck Nasty) so maybe he can elaborate.
ADHD
Smash Hero
Squirtle wins: 60:40 or 55:45.
Ivy loses: 40:60
Charizard loses: 40:60 or possibly 35:65
Ivy loses: 40:60
Charizard loses: 40:60 or possibly 35:65
Player-1
Smash Legend
the 2nd best PT is probably Typh on the WC IMO.I too think Lucas is anyeasy matchup. I haven't played a lucas to Advent's level, but I did play the MW's top lucas and I beat him in a mm 2-1..and two stocked him on both of the regular stages we played one (He beat me on pirate ship
I agree with steeler, charizard is harder than ivysaur, imo. However, I don't have much PT experience. Le thien plays probably the best pokemon trainer not named reflex on a regular basis (Chuck Nasty) so maybe he can elaborate.
and I agree with ADHD
Squirtle: 55-60:45-40
Ivy: 40:60
Charizard: 40:60
I think I just put the matchups on the wrong side of the colon but oh well >.>
Coyn3Masta
Smash Journeyman
lol are we ever gonnna use this >_>?It would be nice if they deleted all of his post's though....
Anyways new chart for you guys to use
Just add in the Title and Numbers yourself. Simple!
Player-1
Smash Legend
No, the Diddy Boards are the non conformist people who end up inventing something better =)
Nooooooo!
We should use it! :[ I hate digging through pages and making my own opinions on these...
Maybe instead of a ratio, we have a number like 50-60 that means Diddy is either even or has a 6:4 advantage? Just to cover uncertainty and avoid conformity?
:D
_clinton
Smash Master
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2006
- Messages
- 3,189
Nah...anyway...
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=229697
Please post in this thread about your characters traits and how Ness can overcome them...
Magik0722
Smash Champion
im not that good at articulating my thoughts however im very experienced in this matchup, so.. here are some videos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pSxLCPgpfU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRKsQBnd8Tw&feature=channel_page
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6YjI6RZmOQ&feature=channel_page
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jpai3ff-Uj4&feature=channel_page
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oY-TiCLHh4I&feature=channel_page
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtpq0ERf11w&feature=channel_page
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=166eDGq1O0s&feature=channel_page
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqPJzlKRdtI&feature=channel_page
i will however post my matchups numbers i beleive to be the case
Pokemon-diddy
Squirtle: 45-55
Ivy: 40-60
Charizard: 35-65
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pSxLCPgpfU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRKsQBnd8Tw&feature=channel_page
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6YjI6RZmOQ&feature=channel_page
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jpai3ff-Uj4&feature=channel_page
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oY-TiCLHh4I&feature=channel_page
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtpq0ERf11w&feature=channel_page
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=166eDGq1O0s&feature=channel_page
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqPJzlKRdtI&feature=channel_page
i will however post my matchups numbers i beleive to be the case
Pokemon-diddy
Squirtle: 45-55
Ivy: 40-60
Charizard: 35-65
mdmfromdaridge
Smash Journeyman
Lucas' side B approach/retreat is annoying. Predictable because its probably his easiest approach on you but still can be troublesome. Spaces him great, hit stun is great, and definately gets annoying because after the first hit theres a good chance you will take at least one more side B before you can get away from him. Gotta up the ante on peanut game and be a little more cautious with your nana's. Side B makes a rather large safe zone for the lucas player too approach and then commandeer your banana. Punish the f*** out of his usmash and bait the grab for an easy bit of damage. Also those nana's and peanuts can work wonders on his recovery.
All in all, Diddy:Lucas= 60:40
Squirtle: 55:45? He is annoyingly fast with his movement and attacks. I don't even like seeing him on the stage....
Ivysaur: Not the hardest thing in the word. Not even 10th hardest. Should be a cake walk, and when you go for the tether gimp, make sure you expect them to chuck a razor leaf at you to clear the ledge. Workable tactic is barrel ledge stall to regain invincibility frames. Potentially you could ledgedrop away from the ledge --> reverse peanut --> up-B to gain ledge. Pretty risky really. It could bait the airdodge and make it harder for him to razor leaf you, or the peanut could hit and still make it harder for him to mess up youre perfectly good edgehog. Not to be repeated but fun to try. 70:30
Charizard: Of course watch the fire for his edgeguard, he has decent range on you with his side-B, fsmash, fair and probably a bunch of other crap. BIG target though. Basically you can throw a banana anywhere toward him and feel pretty confident its going to hit the guy. Personally I don't have trouble with him so I'm gonna go with 60:40.
NESS! I fight a **** good ness on a regular basis and for whatever reason have a good bit of trouble with him..... That up-B will mess up your recovery pretty bad. His fair is just rediculous. Don't even bother trying to trade airials with him. Watch the spike its a *****. Don't let him get those throws off. Pk Fire isn't much of an issue here, range is lower and he cant really use it for an effective approach so long as you space/expect it to be coming. His fsmash HURTS. Careful with his dsmash, the back end of it can really poke at you and be quite annoying. Other than that, I would say banana game is much more doable than Lucas. I tend to rack up my damage on stage, generally I wouldn't bother trying to edgeguard too much percentage on him. He will just get back on with his fair, blowing through your peanuts and airials. Bananas work of course, assuming he doesnt catch them. 55:45
All in all, Diddy:Lucas= 60:40
Squirtle: 55:45? He is annoyingly fast with his movement and attacks. I don't even like seeing him on the stage....
Ivysaur: Not the hardest thing in the word. Not even 10th hardest. Should be a cake walk, and when you go for the tether gimp, make sure you expect them to chuck a razor leaf at you to clear the ledge. Workable tactic is barrel ledge stall to regain invincibility frames. Potentially you could ledgedrop away from the ledge --> reverse peanut --> up-B to gain ledge. Pretty risky really. It could bait the airdodge and make it harder for him to razor leaf you, or the peanut could hit and still make it harder for him to mess up youre perfectly good edgehog. Not to be repeated but fun to try. 70:30
Charizard: Of course watch the fire for his edgeguard, he has decent range on you with his side-B, fsmash, fair and probably a bunch of other crap. BIG target though. Basically you can throw a banana anywhere toward him and feel pretty confident its going to hit the guy. Personally I don't have trouble with him so I'm gonna go with 60:40.
NESS! I fight a **** good ness on a regular basis and for whatever reason have a good bit of trouble with him..... That up-B will mess up your recovery pretty bad. His fair is just rediculous. Don't even bother trying to trade airials with him. Watch the spike its a *****. Don't let him get those throws off. Pk Fire isn't much of an issue here, range is lower and he cant really use it for an effective approach so long as you space/expect it to be coming. His fsmash HURTS. Careful with his dsmash, the back end of it can really poke at you and be quite annoying. Other than that, I would say banana game is much more doable than Lucas. I tend to rack up my damage on stage, generally I wouldn't bother trying to edgeguard too much percentage on him. He will just get back on with his fair, blowing through your peanuts and airials. Bananas work of course, assuming he doesnt catch them. 55:45