IanTheGamer
Smash Champion
Well she is a Star Fox character now, like it or not, if you don't like it, there's not much else I can say to you
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Did you like or not like Star Fox Zero?
- Thread starter Foxus
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Don't you worry - I am aware. I've been aware. And I will always be aware.
That is until the good lord Miyamoto descends from the heavens to lay the smackdown on the post-64 canon. Fingers crossed, baby.
IanTheGamer
Smash Champion
Well what if he doesn't
windlessusher
Smash Journeyman
Ah
Well, think of it this way, she is from a different planet with a different culture n' stuff, so it'd make sense she feels out of place, no?
IanTheGamer
Smash Champion
Ignore him, he's obviously afraid of anything that is different and blinded by nostalgia
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You know, you're right. It definitely isn't just a simple distaste for a character design. It's far, far deeper than that. I'm afraid of anything that dares to expand on my precious, untouchable Star Fox 64. Mortified, even. It sends me into a panic just thinking about it.
Am I afraid of heights? No. Am I afraid of flying? No. Do I even fear death?
No.
But what I do fear - more than anything on this godforsaken Earth - is the very idea that a ****ing blue fox is in a video game.
windlessusher
Smash Journeyman
I guess someone hit your frontal lobe pretty hard.
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I got a piece of shrapnel lodged into it, actually. They made a game about it. You should check it out.
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Knock it off all of you.
This is ridiculous.
None of you can have a pleasant conversation. Either Nintendo is stupid or the fans are stupid or a character is stupid.
You want to know what's stupid. Your behavior. You all need to grow up.
This is ridiculous.
None of you can have a pleasant conversation. Either Nintendo is stupid or the fans are stupid or a character is stupid.
You want to know what's stupid. Your behavior. You all need to grow up.
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I apologize. I tend to have a little too much fun when it comes to ragging on stuff I don't much care for.
windlessusher
Smash Journeyman
I'm sorry if we got a little carried away in our mischief ^^;
Foxus
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This post reminded me of all the hate Star Fox Adventures got because Fox was on--foot for the majority of the time. While people are entitled to their opinions, the hate that game received really was unjustified. I don't really blame the franchise for anything to be honest, rather Nintendo's treatment put toward the franchise, not necessarily the best treatment out there I might add. Nintendo puts all their focus toward Mario, Zelda, and Pokemon these days. I understand those are like their flagship franchises, but its like really. Star Fox deserves better than to receive less attention to WarioWare or Pikmin (both games I might add have gotten more installments than SF has in the last 8-9 years).
Sorry for the rant. I'm just outraged over how Nintendo has treated the franchise, not necessarily like trash but like they could give or take on the franchises welfare.
Whats going to happen next? People will criticize Super Mario Sunshine because it was a change in location (which SF Adventures ultimately was) and not in the Mushroom Kingdom. Come on, you can have your opinions but have at elast some solid justification for them.
EDIT: To the mode point, I try to maintain a pleasant conservation. But when hate spirals out of control, that's when the whole goal of the thread starts to change. I almost made this thread into a poll, i myself not the best example since I was mortified with the E3 presentation. I wanted to state that for the record.
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I get where you're coming from, and I'm really not trying to attack anyone's tastes here. I feel like we're on opposite sides of the same coin in terms of our interest in Star Fox. Which is not surprising, given that Adventures is very much a unique game in the series.
Adventures got a bad rap. A worse rap than it probably deserved. I think the game is just kinda mediocre, which normally isn't worthy of the amount of hate that it ended up getting. But considering the context that the game was released under, it's really not that hard to understand why it got the reception that it did.
As I said earlier in the thread, comparing something like Sunshine to Adventures isn't entirely fair, since it's kinda dismissing the context that both games were released in. The Mario franchise, at the time of Sunshine's release, had been a thing for ages. We'd seen 2D platformers, RPGs, racing games, etc. At that point, just releasing another 2D platformer or whatever would've been kinda lame, since we'd already seen plenty of those before. So of course you release a follow-up to Super Mario 64.
Adventures, however, just kinda came outta left field. I don't think anybody would've groaned at the sight of a full-blown successor to Star Fox 64, since we'd only been a whopping 2 games into the series. There was room for the formula to expand in some ways. Better visuals, cooler boss fights, another vehicle, all that stuff. But instead, Adventures happened. What was once some Rare game called Dinosaur Planet is now suddenly the next game in the Star Fox franchise.
Besides the fact that it just wasn't all that great (especially compared to other games of its type), it didn't feel like Star Fox at all, and there's no denying that. Even the games after it were completely different. It's a total outlier, and not in the Majora's Mask, Mario Sunshine kinda way. It's not just a new location, or a couple new mechanics - it's an entirely different game altogether. It's like if you made a new F-Zero, but it was like, a strategy game.
The fact that Zero is returning to the roots of the series is obviously very exciting to me, and probably a lot of other Star Fox fans. To fans of Adventures, it kinda sucks. A lot. The likelihood of an Adventures 2 happening is probably like, ridiculously low. But then again, Adventures wasn't really Star Fox to begin with anyway.
It reminds me a bit of Fallout, actually. I'm a huge fan of the first 2 Fallout games. Like, both of them are probably in my top 10. Had the series ended after 2, it might be my favorite series ever. But the series (under a new studio) has started to move on, making a significant departure from what I initially loved about it. The Fallout that I, and many others, loved isn't the Fallout that people want anymore. This obviously bothers me a whole lot, but I just have to accept it and move on.
As I said earlier in the thread, comparing something like Sunshine to Adventures isn't entirely fair, since it's kinda dismissing the context that both games were released in. The Mario franchise, at the time of Sunshine's release, had been a thing for ages. We'd seen 2D platformers, RPGs, racing games, etc. At that point, just releasing another 2D platformer or whatever would've been kinda lame, since we'd already seen plenty of those before. So of course you release a follow-up to Super Mario 64.
Adventures, however, just kinda came outta left field. I don't think anybody would've groaned at the sight of a full-blown successor to Star Fox 64, since we'd only been a whopping 2 games into the series. There was room for the formula to expand in some ways. Better visuals, cooler boss fights, another vehicle, all that stuff. But instead, Adventures happened. What was once some Rare game called Dinosaur Planet is now suddenly the next game in the Star Fox franchise.
Besides the fact that it just wasn't all that great (especially compared to other games of its type), it didn't feel like Star Fox at all, and there's no denying that. Even the games after it were completely different. It's a total outlier, and not in the Majora's Mask, Mario Sunshine kinda way. It's not just a new location, or a couple new mechanics - it's an entirely different game altogether. It's like if you made a new F-Zero, but it was like, a strategy game.
The fact that Zero is returning to the roots of the series is obviously very exciting to me, and probably a lot of other Star Fox fans. To fans of Adventures, it kinda sucks. A lot. The likelihood of an Adventures 2 happening is probably like, ridiculously low. But then again, Adventures wasn't really Star Fox to begin with anyway.
It reminds me a bit of Fallout, actually. I'm a huge fan of the first 2 Fallout games. Like, both of them are probably in my top 10. Had the series ended after 2, it might be my favorite series ever. But the series (under a new studio) has started to move on, making a significant departure from what I initially loved about it. The Fallout that I, and many others, loved isn't the Fallout that people want anymore. This obviously bothers me a whole lot, but I just have to accept it and move on.
I dunno, that's kinda all I have to say on the matter. Sorry if it felt like I was rambling there. And again, apologies if I offended anyone in some way.
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finalark
SNORLAX
Whether or not you intended to, you've started pointing out exactly why nobody in this thread can agree on anything.
As you said, Fallout 2 and 3 are very different from one another. But fans who started on 1/2 compared to 3 and going to have very different views and opinions on what Fallout should be.
The same thing goes for Star Fox. If you started on the original or on 64 then to you Star Fox is an arcadey rail shooter with cheesy dialog. If you started on Adventures or Assault then you're looking more engrossing campaign where the space shooting is only part of the experience and Fox completing ground missions is a must.
This is why Nintendo will never be able to make a SF game that satisfies everyone.
windlessusher
Smash Journeyman
Sounds similar to the life of a certain speedy blue dude.
Foxus
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Never say never.
Its hard to keep everyone happy, if that's even possible. Moderating between airborne space shooter and ground missions might work. We saw this for a small amount in Assault more so than Adventures. You can't say something won't work until you've tried.
finalark
SNORLAX
They did try. It was called Star Fox Assault.
The fact is, a vast majority of fans of the first two games don't want ground missions period. To this day the rallying cry of 64 fans is "Fox should have never left the cockpit." We're at an impasse with no compromise.
Except maybe the walker mode the Arwings will have in SF Zero. That might work as a middle ground, but we'll see.
IanTheGamer
Smash Champion
There is a compromise, do what they did with Metroid divide the series into two smaller subseries, one is for the people who prefer SF64 developed by EAD and the other is more for those who liked Assault better developed by either Retro or Platinum
Depressed Gengar
Hana Is Best Girl
finalark
SNORLAX
The reason why Sonic's fanbase is in shambles is because there are so many different versions of Sonic that nobody can agree on exactly what the core appeal of Sonic is.What sounds similar, exactly?
JuanHUM
Smash Cadet
Im i the only one that love the star fox series in general exactly for what it is? Star fox 64 is a game that mark my entire life, but i enjoy playing star fox ( snes ) after, and i enjoy star fox anventures for both a rare adventure game and a star fox game i never have fear of what should come next in the series i love so much star fox assault, i played star fox 2 a while ago ( don´t tell nintendo Dx ) and absolutely love the heck of it, the only one star fox game that i didint like much is star fox command, the story of course is magnificant and for my point of being at least for a time is a perfect end for the series ( we even have a multiple endings ), the reason i didint like of star fox comand was of course the controls, the problems for me is not what happen for 64 to adventure, the problem is that command tries to maintan the clasic gameplay of SF but insted the force me to use touch control, for me that ruined the total experience altho i did enjoy the game for a part. The problem for is not the story is the gameplay, this time around im gonna be force to play in the cockpit view all the time, this is a problem for me primarly becouse i like seen the arwing and feel like i control it, i havent played the game yet but i feel like the cockpit view its gonna limit the arwing view, the obstacles that appear in your way ( for the point of a designer ) has to be simplified because you can not posible pay attentien to the two screens so fast you have to maintan your main focus on one screen at the time, that said this aint gonna stop me for buying the game and im sure that im gonna have a great time within. In other hand for the people that love the adventure games and character in and post game, need to think that nintendo is aware of it, star fox zero its and re interpretation of star fox 64, but in the future we probably gonna get the re interpretation or " new point of view " of adventure and assault. Sorry for my bad english.
IanTheGamer
Smash Champion
Here's what I'd have in a new Star Fox game:
Command would be retconned, and the game would take place after Assault A movie quality story, and branching dialouge like Mass Effect or Fallout 4, also explaining character backstories more, Space combat levels have been taken off rails (it's a dying genre) Upgradable weapons and craft A slightly edgier storyline New enemies Different story options (I.e Fox's story, Falco's story, Krystal's story, Star Wolf, etc.) that show the story from another character's perspective and telling their origin stories, they are unlocked after beating the previous story Some team based elements On foot combat returns, but is slightly slower paced, you can switch between 1st and 3rd person views, oh and you can now aim with all weapons (AKA all weapons have iron sights) Online multiplayer with Voice Chat Local Multiplayer
Hidden Lore about Lylat is discoverable based on missions
Team Based Gameplay
Also the story is supposed to be slightly more serious then past games, also gone is the Cheesy dialogue and bad voice acting of past games, replaced with serious dialouge with some humor thrown in. Also gone is the old puppet visuals, replaced with realistic characters.
The different stories also provide backstory
(Fyi: By serious, I mean less campy)
The Great Fox (or Sargasso) would serve as an interactive hub world in between missions, with different characters that provide a useful purpose, (Krystal would use her telepathic abilites to provide intel, Slippy would upgrade weapons and vehicles and develop new vehicles and weapons, and Falco would allow you to train and hone your skills via simulated training).
Character personalities and traits
Fox: Heroic, a Great leader, slightly sarcastic, and slightly cocky
Falco: Sarcastic and arrogant, yet still cares about Fox
Krystal: Calm, collected, level headed, and very compassionate
Slippy: Slightly nerdy, Technical Genius, Doesn't have the best bladder control (played for comic relief)
Peppy: Wise, mature, slightly senile
On foot missions:
Each character has a different playstyle for on foot (Fox plays like Gears of War or Mass Effect, Krystal has gameplay like Star Fox: Adventures)
Though there are on foot missions, the main focus of the game is Aerial combat
The game can be divided up into percentages
Arwing Combat: 75%
On foot: 15%
Landmaster: 5%
Blue Marine: 5%
Oh and Slippy is not a pilot, he's in an Otacon-type role,
The active flight roster is:
Fox, Falco, Krystal, Miyu
Command would be retconned, and the game would take place after Assault A movie quality story, and branching dialouge like Mass Effect or Fallout 4, also explaining character backstories more, Space combat levels have been taken off rails (it's a dying genre) Upgradable weapons and craft A slightly edgier storyline New enemies Different story options (I.e Fox's story, Falco's story, Krystal's story, Star Wolf, etc.) that show the story from another character's perspective and telling their origin stories, they are unlocked after beating the previous story Some team based elements On foot combat returns, but is slightly slower paced, you can switch between 1st and 3rd person views, oh and you can now aim with all weapons (AKA all weapons have iron sights) Online multiplayer with Voice Chat Local Multiplayer
Hidden Lore about Lylat is discoverable based on missions
Team Based Gameplay
Also the story is supposed to be slightly more serious then past games, also gone is the Cheesy dialogue and bad voice acting of past games, replaced with serious dialouge with some humor thrown in. Also gone is the old puppet visuals, replaced with realistic characters.
The different stories also provide backstory
(Fyi: By serious, I mean less campy)
The Great Fox (or Sargasso) would serve as an interactive hub world in between missions, with different characters that provide a useful purpose, (Krystal would use her telepathic abilites to provide intel, Slippy would upgrade weapons and vehicles and develop new vehicles and weapons, and Falco would allow you to train and hone your skills via simulated training).
Character personalities and traits
Fox: Heroic, a Great leader, slightly sarcastic, and slightly cocky
Falco: Sarcastic and arrogant, yet still cares about Fox
Krystal: Calm, collected, level headed, and very compassionate
Slippy: Slightly nerdy, Technical Genius, Doesn't have the best bladder control (played for comic relief)
Peppy: Wise, mature, slightly senile
On foot missions:
Each character has a different playstyle for on foot (Fox plays like Gears of War or Mass Effect, Krystal has gameplay like Star Fox: Adventures)
Though there are on foot missions, the main focus of the game is Aerial combat
The game can be divided up into percentages
Arwing Combat: 75%
On foot: 15%
Landmaster: 5%
Blue Marine: 5%
Oh and Slippy is not a pilot, he's in an Otacon-type role,
The active flight roster is:
Fox, Falco, Krystal, Miyu
D
Deleted member
Guest
Regarding SFZ being a remake of 64, I found this in a Command interview.
http://ca.ign.com/articles/2006/09/07/star-fox-command-interview?page=2
Cuthbert: The canon ending. Hehe. I think if the game continues it won't pick up where the game ends, but start more in the middle.
Imamura: This storyline, ends here, and if there's a continuation it would start from the middle, so it wouldn't depend on any of the endings.
http://ca.ign.com/articles/2006/09/07/star-fox-command-interview?page=2
Cuthbert: The canon ending. Hehe. I think if the game continues it won't pick up where the game ends, but start more in the middle.
Imamura: This storyline, ends here, and if there's a continuation it would start from the middle, so it wouldn't depend on any of the endings.
GreenKirby
Smash Master
And Zero contradicts Pepper's rise to becoming a general (and generals generally don't go out onto the battle ground), Pigma and Andrew being kicked out of Star Wolf, No sign of Panther, and of course, Andross returning
Fact is, it's pretty much a reboot because it's only grabbing elements from the pre Adventure games and Miyamoto is too bullheaded to use characters and locations he didn't create. And it's not like Nintendo never lied before. It's a Star Fox 64 again.
And let's face it, Zero will STILL be seen as the inferior to 64 because knuckleheads will be too clouded by nostalgia to ever think 64 can be dethroned.
Fact is, it's pretty much a reboot because it's only grabbing elements from the pre Adventure games and Miyamoto is too bullheaded to use characters and locations he didn't create. And it's not like Nintendo never lied before. It's a Star Fox 64 again.
And let's face it, Zero will STILL be seen as the inferior to 64 because knuckleheads will be too clouded by nostalgia to ever think 64 can be dethroned.
finalark
SNORLAX
Unfortunately, this is why SF will never move out of 64's shadow. With Zero Nintendo has all but said that they have no intention of trying to expand on the series and explore new avenues with it. Instead they're going to be rehashing SF64 until the end of the time because certain, very vocal individuals don't want anything else.
IanTheGamer
Smash Champion
Well If I were in charge I'd ignore the vocal fools and tell them shut up and if you don't like the game don't buy it
D
Deleted member
Guest
May I ask where you got this from? I wasn't able to find anything.
GreenKirby
Smash Master
At 0:27 to 0:29, you can see two Wolfen ships with the letters "W" and "A" above them. And at 0:35, you can see another Wolfen with the letter "P" above it and that there's already been gameplay footage featuing Pigma in the Wolfen despite Wolf kicking him off the team in Assault.
And at 2:10 of this video, Pigma says "Andross will pay a pretty penny to see you suffer"
I mean, I can't fathom how anyone can be excited for this. This is worst than Sticker Star's situation because Miyamoto is more involved with Zero. I would like to ask the man how on Earth worldbuilding hinders gameplay.
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D
Deleted member
Guest
Agreed. I was excited at first, but the moment I found out it was a reboot my hype died immediately. By the way, I didn't see Pepper anywhere in the trailer. Did you mean Peppy?
GreenKirby
Smash Master
Yeah I meant Peppy. He was the one promoted to general in Command while Pepper was bedridden
SphericalCrusher
Hardcore Gamer
Very excited for this game. I have not had the chance to try it out, but it looks incredible. Can't wait until it comes out!
Supersteve45
Smash Rookie
I'm super excited for the game, I'm a little disappointed that it was delayed but I guess it's all for the better. I just hope the game doesn't revolve around the gamepad.
LancerStaff
Smash Hero
Myself, I am quite excited for SF0 because it's everything I've wanted from a Starfox game.
I definitely fall into the camp that thinks the first two games are the best (well, never played the original but it's pretty difficult to play legit) but I don't hate every other Starfox game either. Adventures I'm just not interested in, Assault was cool but I would of preferred more/better Arwing gameplay then all the ground segments, and Command really needed some real on-rails segments outside of chasing missiles and one or two bosses.
When it comes to the story... Eh. I very much prefer the cheesy one-liners to how grim Assault and Command generally were. (And Assault pretty much undoing everything at the end didn't help matters.) I would of preferred to of advanced the story then get another retelling but it doesn't make much of a difference.
As long as they can make the game fun with the separated aiming and flying, I'm good to go.
I definitely fall into the camp that thinks the first two games are the best (well, never played the original but it's pretty difficult to play legit) but I don't hate every other Starfox game either. Adventures I'm just not interested in, Assault was cool but I would of preferred more/better Arwing gameplay then all the ground segments, and Command really needed some real on-rails segments outside of chasing missiles and one or two bosses.
When it comes to the story... Eh. I very much prefer the cheesy one-liners to how grim Assault and Command generally were. (And Assault pretty much undoing everything at the end didn't help matters.) I would of preferred to of advanced the story then get another retelling but it doesn't make much of a difference.
As long as they can make the game fun with the separated aiming and flying, I'm good to go.
Foxus
Smash Ace
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The thing about Command is, I think it could have been done better, while in all fairness it is a handheld game, but some things like the scratchy voices (which I think should've been replaced with dialogue than just gibberish) could've been done better.
However, on the plus side, Command's slides of dialogue gave a good opening for another sequel. Fox possibly doing something with his son, Marcus (possibly replacing Slippy, since Slippy falls in love in Command). Yes, a sequel. Not a remake of the N64 days (or as Nintendo has put it, "reimagining").
I suggest you give Adventures a try. It's gameplay and environment adds a whole another dimension to Fox's world.
Tino
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Of course I liked Star Fox Zero and I'm really excited about it so I don't have any reason why I shouldn't be. Of course, this will be the second Star Fox game I'll ever play in the series (after Star Fox 64 3D). I missed out on all the other Star Fox games that came before so the series is still pretty new to me.
D
Deleted member
Guest
I asked Dylan Cuthberg on Twitter what the Canon ending to Command was, however he said Imamura is the one who knows. With all endings confirmed non canon, I can however establish what I believe happened using Brawl's Smash Taunt Conversations.
It seems Krystal and Peppy returned to the team, they built a new Great Fox, the Venomians are on the verge of collapsing and Star Wolf shows up to mess with Star Fox every now and then.
And yeah, it's really a shame that Miyamoto decided to reboot Star Fox after Imamura said that if they would make a new Star Fox game, it would take place during the middle of Command's story. But nope, Miyamoto decided to reboot Star Fox...
Foxus
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This might end up as a unpopular opinion, but I wonder if Star Fox would be given better treatment if it were put in the hands of someone else, still in Nintendo just not in Miyamoto's control.
I feel like Miyamoto is taking life and possibilities out of his own creation.
D
Deleted member
Guest
Definitely. When you look at the Zelda Timeline, it just makes it even more ridicolous that Star Fox is rebooted after four games into the Star Fox timeline. And especially after Imamura said the next Star Fox game would take place in the middle of Command, it just makes me wonder... why did Miyamoto decide to reboot the franchise after Imamura said that?
LancerStaff
Smash Hero
He probably rebooted it in attempt to start with a clean slate. Yaknow, the typical reason things get reboots.
In all seriousness, I think most people prefer Fox, Falco, Slippy and Peppy along with the original Star Wolf team over what we've got recently. The new characters don't seem to be especially popular... Krystal has fans, but she's also pretty controversial.
In all seriousness, I think most people prefer Fox, Falco, Slippy and Peppy along with the original Star Wolf team over what we've got recently. The new characters don't seem to be especially popular... Krystal has fans, but she's also pretty controversial.
IanTheGamer
Smash Champion
Stupid purists
If Krystal gets in Smash via the Ballot, she will be back in the games simple as that