Did you like or not like Star Fox Zero?

[Foxus]

He probably rebooted it in attempt to start with a clean slate. Yaknow, the typical reason things get reboots.

In all seriousness, I think most people prefer Fox, Falco, Slippy and Peppy along with the original Star Wolf team over what we've got recently. The new characters don't seem to be especially popular... Krystal has fans, but she's also pretty controversial.

What are we getting a clean slate for?

What's wrong with Krystal? A little controversy never hurts. Other than Samus Aran or Bayonetta, Nintendo really has no other female fighters (Princess Peach and Zelda being more likely susceptible to being victims over heroes). Another female warrior does justice for Nintendo in general, fills in the gender gap.

As annoying as Prince Tricky's character was, he even contributed to the franchise.....somewhat.

 

[IanTheGamer]

Purists ruin everything

 

[Heroine of Winds]

In all seriousness, I think most people prefer Fox, Falco, Slippy and Peppy along with the original Star Wolf team over what we've got recently. The new characters don't seem to be especially popular... Krystal has fans, but she's also pretty controversial.

Not to mention she originally wasn't a Star Fox character to begin with. Star Fox Adventures was originally a completely different game not related to the series at all. I think it's another reason why Krystal has to be wiped out entirely. She was shoehorned into the Star Fox universe all because the original scrapped N64 version had a character that looked like Fox, so they decided to change it into a Star Fox game when it got pushed to the GCN. This is what I got anyway.

What's wrong with Krystal? A little controversy never hurts. Other than Samus Aran or Bayonetta, Nintendo really has no other female fighters (Princess Peach and Zelda being more likely susceptible to being victims over heroes). Another female warrior does justice for Nintendo in general, fills in the gender gap.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Krystal more of a faux action girl? I've never played her debut game (nor any Star Fox game other than the N64 one), but I got this from TV Tropes. For what's wrong with the character? Well, it's her design. It reminds people of a certain group that's into anthropomorphic animals.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

What are we getting a clean slate for?

What's wrong with Krystal? A little controversy never hurts. Other than Samus Aran or Bayonetta, Nintendo really has no other female fighters (Princess Peach and Zelda being more likely susceptible to being victims over heroes). Another female warrior does justice for Nintendo in general, fills in the gender gap.

As annoying as Prince Tricky's character was, he even contributed to the franchise.....somewhat.

You are forgetting like half the female characters in Smash. Let alone Nintendo.

Purists ruin everything

Couldn't one argue that you guys are the purists as well?

I mean you two are clearly post 64 fans.

 

[LancerStaff]

What are we getting a clean slate for?

What's wrong with Krystal? A little controversy never hurts. Other than Samus Aran or Bayonetta, Nintendo really has no other female fighters (Princess Peach and Zelda being more likely susceptible to being victims over heroes). Another female warrior does justice for Nintendo in general, fills in the gender gap.

As annoying as Prince Tricky's character was, he even contributed to the franchise.....somewhat.

Because everything post 64 wasn't really well received, and the story too.

...Doesn't Krystal spend most of Adventures stuck in a crystal? Point is that Krystal herself wasn't well received either.

 

[finalark]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Krystal more of a faux action girl? I've never played her debut game (nor any Star Fox game other than the N64 one), but I got this from TV Tropes. For what's wrong with the character? Well, it's her design. It reminds people of a certain group that's into anthropomorphic animals.

TV Tropes is right on the ball on this one. Aside from the prologue, she's basically a damsel in distress for the entirety of SF Adventures. And in SF Assault she does fight with the rest of the team, but these traits are downplayed so she can fulfill the Diana Troi "Spiritual Alien" archetype.

 

[IanTheGamer]

Couldn't one argue that you guys are the purists as well?

I mean you two are clearly post 64 fans.

No I like SF64, but that doesn't mean every game has to be just like it, I think Nintendo really should try to move the series forward

 

[Swamp Sensei]

No I like SF64, but that doesn't mean every game has to be just like it, I think Nintendo really should try to move the series forward

Couldn't one say the same about the opposition?

 

[PKFreeze89]

Adventures and Assault were two of Nintendo's best games during the GC/PS2 generation and some of my faves too.

As a fan, I am happy with SFZ cause that's exactly the "must have" Wii U game I was waiting for. I love 64 so a follow up or a prequel is more than welcome buuuut sadly, other "fans" weren't happy with the route SF was taking with the GC games and Command and completely boycotted the franchise making Nintendo put on a hold for almost a decade.

Star Fox Zero (pre delay) looked exactly like a SF game was supposed to look. I don't understand nor appreciate this unnecessary nitpicking with the game in general considering Nintendo finally listened to those "fans" and is giving what they wanted, just accept the game the way it is, beggars can't be choosers.

 

[GreenKirby]

Couldn't one say the same about the opposition?

In what way?

 

[~Krystal~]

What are we getting a clean slate for?

Idk. I thought they were on the right track with Assault. Obviously, some ideas could have used more polish, but it's impressive that a game originally intended to be multiplayer centric ended up having a pretty decent single player mode.

What's wrong with Krystal? A little controversy never hurts. Other than Samus Aran or Bayonetta, Nintendo really has no other female fighters (Princess Peach and Zelda being more likely susceptible to being victims over heroes). Another female warrior does justice for Nintendo in general, fills in the gender gap.

It's personal perception. A lot of people don't see a problem with Krystal and a lot of people do. In my mind, the controversy is manufactured. Making mountains out of molehills. You're right about one thing, Krystal is definitively a female warrior. She improvised without her staff as she made her way through Krazoa Palace enroute to releasing the first Krazoa Spirit of the game (somehow seen as functionally useless by people who've never played Adventures), participated in all the space fights with the rest of team Star Fox in Assault, joined Fox in a ground mission to purge the Aparoids from Sauria and earned a reputation in Command for being an ice cold killer. A real warrior through and through and only a damsel in distress for a brief period of time. =3

Anyone who would challenge General Scales barehanded has got some nerve, too. That's part of what I liked about her. There's really no one she'll back down from regardless of the opponent or the circumstance. Her bravery is only rivaled by the compassion she has for others.

As annoying as Prince Tricky's character was, he even contributed to the franchise.....somewhat.

I liked Tricky's upbeat personality. I wouldn't mind seeing more of him, but I think he's best left for an Assault style cameo now that the business in Sauria is concluded.

 

[Foxus]

Because everything post 64 wasn't really well received, and the story too.

...Doesn't Krystal spend most of Adventures stuck in a crystal? Point is that Krystal herself wasn't well received either.

And Princess Peach has spent a good deal of time behind walls and other places under Bowser's custody. Krystal was held hostage just like Peach has been held hostage.

I hate putting labels on people, especially a fanbase, but as IMG has pointed that, part of the reason Star Fox has become "stuck" for the lack of a better word in the N64 days, is because people in that fanbase are too much into the nostalgia of Star Fox 64 and thus can make themselves susceptible to being purists. Let's stop and think for a moment. Imagine of the people who fell in love with Mario in the NES days wanted to keep Mario there (I'm sure there are some people out there who do).

Had they not let something be, maybe we would not have seen Super Mario Sunshine let alone Super Mario Galaxy? I shiver at the thought, but its something to keep in mind. People can remain in love with Star Fox 64, but its time to move on. Super Mario did it, Star Fox can do it as well.

EDIT: Heh, speaking of General Scales, I once saw a meme of King K. Rool from DK with something like, "I was General Scales" or something like that. Now that I think about it, what would've Fox done if there wasn't a "Staff?" (he couldn't bring/use his Blaster). Go Super Mario style maybe?

 

[LancerStaff]

And Princess Peach has spent a good deal of time behind walls and other places under Bowser's custody. Krystal was held hostage just like Peach has been held hostage.

I hate putting labels on people, especially a fanbase, but as IMG has pointed that, part of the reason Star Fox has become "stuck" for the lack of a better word in the N64 days, is because people in that fanbase are too much into the nostalgia of Star Fox 64 and thus can make themselves susceptible to being purists. Let's stop and think for a moment. Imagine of the people who fell in love with Mario in the NES days wanted to keep Mario there (I'm sure there are some people out there who do).

Had they not let something be, maybe we would not have seen Super Mario Sunshine let alone Super Mario Galaxy? I shiver at the thought, but its something to keep in mind. People can remain in love with Star Fox 64, but its time to move on. Super Mario did it, Star Fox can do it as well.

EDIT: Heh, speaking of General Scales, I once saw a meme of King K. Rool from DK with something like, "I was General Scales" or something like that. Now that I think about it, what would've Fox done if there wasn't a "Staff?" (he couldn't bring/use his Blaster). Go Super Mario style maybe?

Okay... That pretty much takes away the whole "isn't a generic Nintendo girl" thing you were talking about.

I liked Starfox 64 because it's a superb rail shooter. Kinda been waiting for a proper sequel for a while...

I mean, after SM64 people were begging for another 2D Mario for about ten years. NSMBDS was a hyped game because it had been that long. I'm not saying there shouldn't be change, but the core needs to be there and stay strong. Super Mario Sunshine couldn't be less like a real Mario game, and I absolutely can't stand the game because of it. That's not an innovation, and not something interesting on top of Mario, it's forcing something completely different on Mario. 64 too, but it would of been acceptable (considering the size of the series) if they didn't take so darned long with giving us the old Mario back. Galaxy I loved because it was finally a proper innovation to the series. If not for the technical limitations SMG could of legitimately came after SMW, and honestly was the true sequel I was waiting so long for.

I see Starfox the same way. I've been waiting years for the real sequel to 64. I'm not closed to change, but the core needs to be there and be strong. Assault was passable as a real Starfox (rail segments weren't great, focused on multiplayer and the mediocre ground segments too much), and so was Command (flying around shooting stuff for points, but no real rail segments), but we should of seen SF0 a looong time ago. I'd gladly give up everything post 64 to see the series continue like this like Mario did. If 643D was NSMBDS then SF0 must be SMG.

 

[Foxus]

Okay... That pretty much takes away the whole "isn't a generic Nintendo girl" thing you were talking about.

I liked Starfox 64 because it's a superb rail shooter. Kinda been waiting for a proper sequel for a while...

I mean, after SM64 people were begging for another 2D Mario for about ten years. NSMBDS was a hyped game because it had been that long. I'm not saying there shouldn't be change, but the core needs to be there and stay strong. Super Mario Sunshine couldn't be less like a real Mario game, and I absolutely can't stand the game because of it. That's not an innovation, and not something interesting on top of Mario, it's forcing something completely different on Mario. 64 too, but it would of been acceptable (considering the size of the series) if they didn't take so darned long with giving us the old Mario back. Galaxy I loved because it was finally a proper innovation to the series. If not for the technical limitations SMG could of legitimately came after SMW, and honestly was the true sequel I was waiting so long for.

I see Starfox the same way. I've been waiting years for the real sequel to 64. I'm not closed to change, but the core needs to be there and be strong. Assault was passable as a real Starfox (rail segments weren't great, focused on multiplayer and the mediocre ground segments too much), and so was Command (flying around shooting stuff for points, but no real rail segments), but we should of seen SF0 a looong time ago. I'd gladly give up everything post 64 to see the series continue like this like Mario did. If 643D was NSMBDS then SF0 must be SMG.

Considering I once heard a Super Mario Galaxy 3 is in the works, I'm wondering how far they send Mario into space before he has discovered all the planets in the entire universe.

What I was really getting at was the change in environment, that something that sits too long can become stale. Some type of SFU would be interesting. Adventures was on to something, but people complained it was too much on foot (which I think, if applied correctly, the Zelda dynamic could work) and Assault was more like what you said, good enough to pass over as a Star Fox game.

I don't think of Super Mario Sunshine as "less of a Mario game," rather opening up Mario's world away from the Mushroom Kingdom, plus it opened up some suspense at the beginning as Peach wasn't kidnapped right away. Also interacting with characters was nice. It had been the same similarly to the installment before (SM64) by Mario collecting shine sprites and completing objectives in other places to rescue the princess. So ultimately the core of Super Mario is there, its just how you look at it.

Imagine if you got Fox and Wolf to work together in a mission, on both the air rand ground.

 

[LancerStaff]

Considering I once heard a Super Mario Galaxy 3 is in the works, I'm wondering how far they send Mario into space before he has discovered all the planets in the entire universe.

What I was really getting at was the change in environment, that something that sits too long can become stale. Some type of SFU would be interesting. Adventures was on to something, but people complained it was too much on foot (which I think, if applied correctly, the Zelda dynamic could work) and Assault was more like what you said, good enough to pass over as a Star Fox game.

I don't think of Super Mario Sunshine as "less of a Mario game," rather opening up Mario's world away from the Mushroom Kingdom, plus it opened up some suspense at the beginning as Peach wasn't kidnapped right away. Also interacting with characters was nice. It had been the same similarly to the installment before (SM64) by Mario collecting shine sprites and completing objectives in other places to rescue the princess. So ultimately the core of Super Mario is there, its just how you look at it.

Imagine if you got Fox and Wolf to work together in a mission, on both the air rand ground.

I don't want Zelda in Starfox. I want Zelda in Zelda, Starfox in Starfox. It's impossible to keep the core of Starfox in an Adventures type game. Like with SM64 and SMS compared to the rest.

SM64 was a collectathon, but kept the collecting and other objectives to a minimum. There was plenty of traditional Mario platforming throughout, and getting from the start to the finish usually doesn't require wandering around. SMS gave us FLUDD, so now we need to clean things... Like, what does cleaning have to do with Mario? We need to wash goo, manage ammo, spray everything in hopes of some silly secret being hidden somewhere... It's just not fun. Getting around also required more searching for power-ups, and then using them wasn't exactly engaging. Yoshi requires even more item finding just to keep him. Like, Mario isn't about finding a princess, it's about getting from point A to point B without aimless searching. Part of why SMG is such a joy is that you don't need to retread areas often, and the way forward is always clear. Not hand holding, but in the sense that you're always moving forward like in the 2D games.

Starfox isn't about saving the galaxy or whatever, it's shooting the ever living daylights out of monkeys and going for high scores. Saving the galaxy is just a side effect of getting a good score.

 

[ChikoLad]

Since it was brought up about the "preferred Star Fox team"...

I personally thought Assault was the best portrayal of the Star Fox team, by far. In particular because I think Peppy was at his absolute finest in that game, the operator role suited him much better than the piloting role.

It was also great to see how the Star Fox team had developed from "our last resort/all we have left to count on" (everyone but Peppy was a yet to be proven mercenary in 64, and Peppy himself was getting rusty from old age), to "highly respected and experienced mercenary group".

Zero is simply regressing back to how they were in 64 which is a disappointment. Especially since a lot of the lines we've seen so far are LITERALLY the same lines as in 64. Such blatant nostalgia pandering isn't necessary in a new installment when 64 literally got a fairly successful remake not too long ago.

The delay also has me worried mainly because "tone of the cutscenes" and "improving GamePad functionality" are stated by Miyamoto as being part of the reasoning. I fear they translate to "making the cutscenes less interesting and more similar to 64", and "forcing extra GamePad gimmicks that are unnecessary", knowing Miyamoto.

 

[Foxus]

I don't want Zelda in Starfox. I want Zelda in Zelda, Starfox in Starfox. It's impossible to keep the core of Starfox in an Adventures type game. Like with SM64 and SMS compared to the rest.

SM64 was a collectathon, but kept the collecting and other objectives to a minimum. There was plenty of traditional Mario platforming throughout, and getting from the start to the finish usually doesn't require wandering around. SMS gave us FLUDD, so now we need to clean things... Like, what does cleaning have to do with Mario? We need to wash goo, manage ammo, spray everything in hopes of some silly secret being hidden somewhere... It's just not fun. Getting around also required more searching for power-ups, and then using them wasn't exactly engaging. Yoshi requires even more item finding just to keep him. Like, Mario isn't about finding a princess, it's about getting from point A to point B without aimless searching. Part of why SMG is such a joy is that you don't need to retread areas often, and the way forward is always clear. Not hand holding, but in the sense that you're always moving forward like in the 2D games.

Starfox isn't about saving the galaxy or whatever, it's shooting the ever living daylights out of monkeys and going for high scores. Saving the galaxy is just a side effect of getting a good score.

Some parts of SMS were annoying, I'll give you that. Like why did Yoshi have to disappear if you went into a body of water. I do have to say I liked Ricco Harbor and Pinata Village, just about every course really except for the theme park. Keeping your point the core of the series is imperative to its success in mind, thinking out of the box can be a way of making the game more engaging. Going on a "treasure hunt" for these secrets in warp pipes (the ones most likely you had to get the gopher out of) was a way of making the game more challenging (although I got miffed at times of continuously throwing bombs trying to get the gopher out of there).

Lets remember also SMS is responsible for Bowser Jr's debut. I think of SMG as a expanded version of SMS, making the game even more engaging as before. But this isn't a Mario thread, its a Star Fox thread so lets try keeping on topic.

Saying Star Fox is nothing more that shooting at whatever stands in its way reminds me of that arcade game of that triangle-looking ship shooting at asteroids. Maybe that's the way it was originally intended, but as the series progresses, change is inevitable. To keep the audiences interest, you have to be continuously keep the premise of the game fresh. Whether its by introducing new allies/villains (Assault) or expanding the world the franchise lives in (Adventures), it has to stay fresh otherwise it easily becomes stagnant. Each of the SF games post-SF 64 (aka Lylat Wars) has done service to the franchise in one way or another.

This is what I would tell Miyamoto. Take what has been done in Adventures and Assault, while keeping the SF 64 spice, and base the framework of the game from there. Move further away from Andross, maybe introduce a character who is blood relative of Andross whom poses a bigger threat than Andross did. Possibly think of putting the idea in that James McCloud didn't die after all, rather has been hiding out under the radar on another planet. Take influence from SMG, but keep it original.

Bring back and utilize the Warpstone, model Fox after the Adventures version, make both the Staff and Blaster available options and make the game more graphically intensive not just in space, but on the ground. I could go on but I won't waste anymore space.

Even FNAF progressed in a way by introducing more characters and different control room environments.

 

[GreenKirby]

I don't even understand how Krystal can't even be in the reboot as apart of the team since the beginning like everyone else and just make her not Fox's girlfriend

The Wii U version of Sonic and All Stars Racing Transformed allows for 5 player.

If an arcade subdivision under Sega can do that, what on Earth is stopping Nintendo ****ing EAD?

I'd gladly give up everything post 64 to see the series continue like this like Mario did. If 643D was NSMBDS then SF0 must be SMG.

Zero's nothing to Galaxy. Galaxy kept old things, brought in new things, and actually looks like it took effort.

Zero is more like NSMBW. Copy and paste.

And that's my biggest issue with using nostalgia as the selling point. It always allows for the mentality of "Let's put as little effort into this as possible"

And as I said before, Zero will still be seen as inferior to 64 and idiots will still cry about wanting a "faithful" sequel.

 

[LancerStaff]

Some parts of SMS were annoying, I'll give you that. Like why did Yoshi have to disappear if you went into a body of water. I do have to say I liked Ricco Harbor and Pinata Village, just about every course really except for the theme park. Keeping your point the core of the series is imperative to its success in mind, thinking out of the box can be a way of making the game more engaging. Going on a "treasure hunt" for these secrets in warp pipes (the ones most likely you had to get the gopher out of) was a way of making the game more challenging (although I got miffed at times of continuously throwing bombs trying to get the gopher out of there).

Lets remember also SMS is responsible for Bowser Jr's debut. I think of SMG as a expanded version of SMS, making the game even more engaging as before. But this isn't a Mario thread, its a Star Fox thread so lets try keeping on topic.

Saying Star Fox is nothing more that shooting at whatever stands in its way reminds me of that arcade game of that triangle-looking ship shooting at asteroids. Maybe that's the way it was originally intended, but as the series progresses, change is inevitable. To keep the audiences interest, you have to be continuously keep the premise of the game fresh. Whether its by introducing new allies/villains (Assault) or expanding the world the franchise lives in (Adventures), it has to stay fresh otherwise it easily becomes stagnant. Each of the SF games post-SF 64 (aka Lylat Wars) has done service to the franchise in one way or another.

This is what I would tell Miyamoto. Take what has been done in Adventures and Assault, while keeping the SF 64 spice, and base the framework of the game from there. Move further away from Andross, maybe introduce a character who is blood relative of Andross whom poses a bigger threat than Andross did. Possibly think of putting the idea in that James McCloud didn't die after all, rather has been hiding out under the radar on another planet. Take influence from SMG, but keep it original.

Bring back and utilize the Warpstone, model Fox after the Adventures version, make both the Staff and Blaster available options and make the game more graphically intensive not just in space, but on the ground. I could go on but I won't waste anymore space.

Even FNAF progressed in a way by introducing more characters and different control room environments.

Finding secrets can be fun, but it needs to be in small amounts. Mario games nowadays have three main doodads to find and then either stamps or secret exits that can really be anywhere. It's set up so that the extras are optional, and that the extras are often a source of challenge and thought. So it's like "can I jump up there?" or "how do I kick these shells to get that coin out?" rather then "spray random walls and the floor." SMS was secrets for secrets sake, and weren't really clever or fun. Mario Galaxy, rather then secrets to find hidden items it was about utilizing what you're given to move forwards. It was much slower then a 2D Mario, but you still felt rewarded for getting through levels and finding out how to move forward.

It's called Asteroids. <_< Thing is that the core of Starfox is shooting things and getting high scores. It doesn't need to be a rail shooter, it could be a 2D platformer akin to Megaman but instead you're looking to eliminate enemies as fast and effectively as possible rather then just beating stages. Actually, it'd work in 3D too. People didn't like Assault because the ground segments were, again, more about looking around and finding junk rather then getting scores. Wandering around and opening up doors for one enemy is just unsatisfying. Throwing yourself right in the line of fire for five kills plus a +4 because you used a charge shot is fun. Had the grounded segments been more linear and generally taking risks being more rewarding it wouldn't of been nearly as divisive.

A series that did a good job of keeping it's core even after a complete and total genre change is gonna sound biased for this Kid Icarus. The core is progressing through challenging stages, beating up enemies for cash, taking detours for even greater rewards, and generally rewarding playing smart. Most of the changes to the core that Uprising brought were 25 years of improvements brought to gaming in general. I mean... The game wouldn't be nearly as fun if you were locked to one difficultly and death ment losing everything from that round and trying again.

Again, I don't care about Starfox's plot. Until they get the gameplay worked out they really shouldn't be putting much effort into the story.

I don't even understand how Krystal can't even be in the reboot as apart of the team since the beginning like everyone else and just make her not Fox's girlfriend

The Wii U version of Sonic and All Stars Racing Transformed allows for 5 player.

If an arcade subdivision under Sega can do that, what on Earth is stopping Nintendo ****ing EAD?



Zero's nothing to Galaxy. Galaxy kept old things, brought in new things, and actually looks like it took effort.

Zero is more like NSMBW. Copy and paste.

And that's my biggest issue with using nostalgia as the selling point. It always allows for the mentality of "Let's put as little effort into this as possible"

And as I said before, Zero will still be seen as inferior to 64 and idiots will still cry about wanting a "faithful" sequel.

Krystal's problem isn't being Fox's girlfriend, it's that she doesn't really add anything. Like with Sonic and how he has like 30 characters that don't do anything...

What's with the obsession with shoehorning multiplayer into games that don't need it? I don't want time to be wasted on shallow modes I'll play twice instead of the actual gameplay I'm buying it for.

I'd sooner take a new NSMB game over Sunshine 2.

In case you didn't notice, the voice acting we've seen so far has only been in one or two stages, with the rest being untranslated Japanese. Chances are that they're recycling lines just for the demo. Not saying that every line is going to be original, (really, making Slippy tell you to do a barrel roll isn't going to matter much,) but I expect most of it to be new. So far it seems that there's a lot more meaningful conversation instead of just jabbering about the boss's weakness.

I mean, just because SM3DW wasn't as good as SMG doesn't mean it's not worth a purchase. I'll be happy as long as it's even close to 64. Heck, I'd be happy with just porting over the 643D engine and making 15 new levels to play. Pretty clearly they're doing a lot more then that...

 

[Deleted member]

Since it was brought up about the "preferred Star Fox team"...

I personally thought Assault was the best portrayal of the Star Fox team, by far. In particular because I think Peppy was at his absolute finest in that game, the operator role suited him much better than the piloting role.

It was also great to see how the Star Fox team had developed from "our last resort/all we have left to count on" (everyone but Peppy was a yet to be proven mercenary in 64, and Peppy himself was getting rusty from old age), to "highly respected and experienced mercenary group".

True. Here's hoping your Star Fox Timeline is canon

 

[GreenKirby]

Krystal's problem isn't being Fox's girlfriend, it's that she doesn't really add anything. Like with Sonic and how he has like 30 characters that don't do anything...

The other three wingmen add nothing either and Slippy is constantly ****ed about being a hindrance.

And way to use the irrelevant "Sonic has too many characters" reasoning. Sonic was usually the only playable character for a good while until Sonic Boom

What's with the obsession with shoehorning multiplayer into games that don't need it? I don't want time to be wasted on shallow modes I'll play twice instead of the actual gameplay I'm buying it for.

First you complain that games should focus on gameplay and then whine about multiplayer, something that

A) SF64 had
B) Enhances gameplay as well. You might not use it. Other people would though

Not to mention I was just giving an example of why couldn't there be a 5 person Star Fox team.

 

[IanTheGamer]

Finding secrets can be fun, but it needs to be in small amounts. Mario games nowadays have three main doodads to find and then either stamps or secret exits that can really be anywhere. It's set up so that the extras are optional, and that the extras are often a source of challenge and thought. So it's like "can I jump up there?" or "how do I kick these shells to get that coin out?" rather then "spray random walls and the floor." SMS was secrets for secrets sake, and weren't really clever or fun. Mario Galaxy, rather then secrets to find hidden items it was about utilizing what you're given to move forwards. It was much slower then a 2D Mario, but you still felt rewarded for getting through levels and finding out how to move forward.

It's called Asteroids. <_< Thing is that the core of Starfox is shooting things and getting high scores. It doesn't need to be a rail shooter, it could be a 2D platformer akin to Megaman but instead you're looking to eliminate enemies as fast and effectively as possible rather then just beating stages. Actually, it'd work in 3D too. People didn't like Assault because the ground segments were, again, more about looking around and finding junk rather then getting scores. Wandering around and opening up doors for one enemy is just unsatisfying. Throwing yourself right in the line of fire for five kills plus a +4 because you used a charge shot is fun. Had the grounded segments been more linear and generally taking risks being more rewarding it wouldn't of been nearly as divisive.

A series that did a good job of keeping it's core even after a complete and total genre change is gonna sound biased for this Kid Icarus. The core is progressing through challenging stages, beating up enemies for cash, taking detours for even greater rewards, and generally rewarding playing smart. Most of the changes to the core that Uprising brought were 25 years of improvements brought to gaming in general. I mean... The game wouldn't be nearly as fun if you were locked to one difficultly and death ment losing everything from that round and trying again.

Again, I don't care about Starfox's plot. Until they get the gameplay worked out they really shouldn't be putting much effort into the story.



Krystal's problem isn't being Fox's girlfriend, it's that she doesn't really add anything. Like with Sonic and how he has like 30 characters that don't do anything...

What's with the obsession with shoehorning multiplayer into games that don't need it? I don't want time to be wasted on shallow modes I'll play twice instead of the actual gameplay I'm buying it for.

I'd sooner take a new NSMB game over Sunshine 2.

In case you didn't notice, the voice acting we've seen so far has only been in one or two stages, with the rest being untranslated Japanese. Chances are that they're recycling lines just for the demo. Not saying that every line is going to be original, (really, making Slippy tell you to do a barrel roll isn't going to matter much,) but I expect most of it to be new. So far it seems that there's a lot more meaningful conversation instead of just jabbering about the boss's weakness.

I mean, just because SM3DW wasn't as good as SMG doesn't mean it's not worth a purchase. I'll be happy as long as it's even close to 64. Heck, I'd be happy with just porting over the 643D engine and making 15 new levels to play. Pretty clearly they're doing a lot more then that...

This is what you are sounding like right now:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5AvrBFlJeMs

The other three wingmen add nothing either and Slippy is constantly ****ed about being a hindrance.

And way to use the irrelevant "Sonic has too many characters" reasoning. Sonic was usually the only playable character for a good while until Sonic Boom




First you complain that games should focus on gameplay and then whine about multiplayer, something that

A) SF64 had
B) Enhances gameplay as well. You might not use it. Other people would though

Not to mention I was just giving an example of why couldn't there be a 5 person Star Fox team.

Besides Shadow isn't useless at all, he adds a rival for the main character, Tails and Knuckles are also sidekicks, the only Sonic characters that are useless are Big, and possibly Amy, Team Chaotix, and maybe Rouge

 

[finalark]

Zero is simply regressing back to how they were in 64 which is a disappointment. Especially since a lot of the lines we've seen so far are LITERALLY the same lines as in 64. Such blatant nostalgia pandering isn't necessary in a new installment when 64 literally got a fairly successful remake not too long ago.

Let me paint a fact: Nintendo's entire modus operandi for the WIi U (and to some extent the 3DS) has been selling nostalgia.

NSMB everywhere.

Isometric Mario basically being the same as 2D Mario but with a Z Axis.

DKC Tropical Freeze, which isn't too far removed from the classic DKC games.

A Link Between Worlds relying on ALTTP nostalgia to sell its new ideas.

Pokemon X/Y's abundant gen 1 pandering.

And now we have Star Fox 0.

 

[Kikkipoptart12]

I really not like how star Fox zero is turning out to be. I hate how it just a reimagine/ remake, it just scream lazy to me.
I hate Crystal and/or post star fox games or not that is not a excuse for Star Fox Zero lack luster presentation. They can easily fix the problems that the post star fox had and keep the good things that those games bought. Why are still having no online multiplayer in 2015!? It's already bad that Star fox games are not even long and have little to no replay value but to have a game that have mulitplayer but no online is dumb. what they showed me makes me feel that this game will not be worth the $60 that this game may cost.

Nintendo cannot afford these short no replayability games right not, their console is in the **** weeds right now. Their game droughts are the worst I have ever seen, 5-6 months without a game is ****ing horrendous. They have shown that they really have gave up on the Wii U.

 

[IanTheGamer]

Zero won't sell, a game that short with no multiplayer isn't worth $60, it's worth $10 on the EShop at most

 

[LancerStaff]

The other three wingmen add nothing either and Slippy is constantly ****ed about being a hindrance.

And way to use the irrelevant "Sonic has too many characters" reasoning. Sonic was usually the only playable character for a good while until Sonic Boom




First you complain that games should focus on gameplay and then whine about multiplayer, something that

A) SF64 had
B) Enhances gameplay as well. You might not use it. Other people would though

Not to mention I was just giving an example of why couldn't there be a 5 person Star Fox team.

I've heard more complaints about Krystal in a day then about Slippy in my entire life...

You mean it wasn't a giant problem until (or after) Unleashed?

SF64's multiplayer was trash. Yeah, some people played it, but more people would play additional levels. It's like Luigi's Mansion Dark Moon where they wasted a bunch of time and effort on terrible, terrible multiplayer. Don't need that again.

Zero won't sell, a game that short with no multiplayer isn't worth $60, it's worth $10 on the EShop at most

Short? I've put over 50 hours in just 64. Who plays rail shooters to beat the story once?

 

[Foxus]

Zero won't sell, a game that short with no multiplayer isn't worth $60, it's worth $10 on the EShop at most

Star Fox was the pinnacle for Nintendo's E3. And why not be? Its been ten years since we got a real Star Fox game (Assault). I don't think a video game, let alone a mission based one, needs multiplayer to sell. Nintendo put more focus into the gamepad control over the game itself.

The best thing that came out of that trailer for me was the Muppet opening.
And really, there's gotta be a better saying than "Do a barrel roll."

 

[ChikoLad]

Let me paint a fact: Nintendo's entire modus operandi for the WIi U (and to some extent the 3DS) has been selling nostalgia.

NSMB everywhere.

Isometric Mario basically being the same as 2D Mario but with a Z Axis.

DKC Tropical Freeze, which isn't too far removed from the classic DKC games.

A Link Between Worlds relying on ALTTP nostalgia to sell its new ideas.

Pokemon X/Y's abundant gen 1 pandering.

And now we have Star Fox 0.

Except each one of those games you listed also did something significantly new more than they did pander to nostalgia.

NSMBU added new power-ups, the Baby Yoshi power-ups, Boost Mode, Miiverse functionality, and was the first Mario platformer to receive DLC, which also introduced playable Nabbit.

3D World introduced fully fledged four player multiplayer to 3D Mario, brought back multiple playable characters with unique abilities and expanded on the concept, had an array of drastically new power-ups, had Miiverse functionality, had lots of brand new bosses, and brand new environment types. Not to mention all of the gimmicks in each level, many of which hadn't been seen in Mario before. Also, the level design was more expansive than 3D Land, so 3D World wasn't just "2D Mario with a Z-Axis", it had a healthy blend of 2D and 3D Mario level design sensibilities, which felt fresh.

DKC is a sequel to Returns that builds off of what made the original good. Also it introduced Cranky Kong as a playable character. Also had more dynamic and cinematic level design, and introduced a brand new set of villains, and the level design went all out and was quite fresh for the series.

ALBW is a legitimate sequel to ALTTP. The game would have sold just as well if it wasn't, new ideas or not. I shouldn't need to go over all of the new stuff that game did, but it being a sequel doesn't diminish it. Linking it to ALTTP meant it was expanding on the lore of the series that already existed.

X/Y was the first fully 3D mainline Pokémon game, and introduced Mega Evolutions, trainer customisation, an array of new Pokémon, a whole new region that was aesthetically unique compared to other regions, and did some groundbreaking stuff for the lore.

Also you seem to be leaving out all of the new IPs we've seen on Wii U and 3DS coming from Nintendo.

Compare all of these to Star Fox: Zero, which is literally a re-imagining of a game that only just got remade anyway. Almost all of the lines of dialogue we've seen are right from 64. The levels we have seen so far are just like their 64 incarnations in terms of aesthetic. Even the big new gimmick, the transformations, is from a cancelled Star Fox game most avid fans of the series have actually played due to it's ROM being leaked and even translated.

The difference between all of these other games and Star Fox: Zero is that these other games either reference the past while building off of it, reference games that came out a decade or two ago, keep the references mostly as secrets or unlockables (meaning they are rewards that simply add to the new experience), and in all cases, the entire foundation of the game isn't nostalgic elements, they are just a small part of a bigger experience.

Star Fox: Zero has the same overall story as 64 (even 3D World had a new plot), same locations, same characters, and 99% of it's mechanics are straight from a previous game. The game it is a "re-imagining" of also just got a literal remake not too long ago. It's a much more jarring case than any of the others you listed, and those other games having a few nostalgic elements doesn't excuse the sheer lack of originality Star Fox: Zero has in every aspect we have seen so far.

Krystal's problem isn't being Fox's girlfriend, it's that she doesn't really add anything. Like with Sonic and how he has like 30 characters that don't do anything...

Sonic's problem wasn't too many characters, it was too many gameplay styles being crammed into one game.

Nobody had a problem with games like S3&K, Sonic Advance, and Sonic Rush. As those games had every character work under the same rough template, but with added abilities.

People have been asking for this for ages and still ask for it today.

 

[finalark]

Anyone who says that Sonic was the only playable character for a long time needs to take a step back and realize that in Sonic 2 could play as Sonic and Tails, just Sonic or just Tails. In 3 you could be Sonic and Tails, just Sonic, just Tails or Knuckes, and then there's the Adventure games.

Litterally, prior to Unleashed, the only main series Sonic game where Sonic was the only playable character was Sonic 1.

ChikoLad gets it right:

Sonic's problem wasn't too many characters, it was too many gameplay styles being crammed into one game.

Star Fox: Zero has the same overall story as 64 (even 3D World had a new plot), same locations, same characters, and 99% of it's mechanics are straight from a previous game. The game it is a "re-imagining" of also just got a literal remake not too long ago. It's a much more jarring case than any of the others you listed, and those other games having a few nostalgic elements doesn't excuse the sheer lack of originality Star Fox: Zero has in every aspect we have seen so far.

You're right, Zero is nostalgia pandering taken to its logical extreme. I think the most obscene part of this whole issue is the fact that the last SF game released was literally Star Fox 64.

 

[IanTheGamer]

Anyone who says that Sonic was the only playable character for a long time needs to take a step back and realize that in Sonic 2 could play as Sonic and Tails, just Sonic or just Tails. In 3 you could be Sonic and Tails, just Sonic, just Tails or Knuckes, and then there's the Adventure games.

Litterally, prior to Unleashed, the only main series Sonic game where Sonic was the only playable character was Sonic 1.

ChikoLad gets it right:






You're right, Zero is nostalgia pandering taken to its logical extreme. I think the most obscene part of this whole issue is the fact that the last SF game released was literally Star Fox 64.

Personally I think EAD is lazy when it comes to that, why bother trying a new story when they can just pander to nostalgia and print easy money

 

[LancerStaff]

Except each one of those games you listed also did something significantly new more than they did pander to nostalgia.

NSMBU added new power-ups, the Baby Yoshi power-ups, Boost Mode, Miiverse functionality, and was the first Mario platformer to receive DLC, which also introduced playable Nabbit.

3D World introduced fully fledged four player multiplayer to 3D Mario, brought back multiple playable characters with unique abilities and expanded on the concept, had an array of drastically new power-ups, had Miiverse functionality, had lots of brand new bosses, and brand new environment types. Not to mention all of the gimmicks in each level, many of which hadn't been seen in Mario before. Also, the level design was more expansive than 3D Land, so 3D World wasn't just "2D Mario with a Z-Axis", it had a healthy blend of 2D and 3D Mario level design sensibilities, which felt fresh.

DKC is a sequel to Returns that builds off of what made the original good. Also it introduced Cranky Kong as a playable character. Also had more dynamic and cinematic level design, and introduced a brand new set of villains, and the level design went all out and was quite fresh for the series.

ALBW is a legitimate sequel to ALTTP. The game would have sold just as well if it wasn't, new ideas or not. I shouldn't need to go over all of the new stuff that game did, but it being a sequel doesn't diminish it. Linking it to ALTTP meant it was expanding on the lore of the series that already existed.

X/Y was the first fully 3D mainline Pokémon game, and introduced Mega Evolutions, trainer customisation, an array of new Pokémon, a whole new region that was aesthetically unique compared to other regions, and did some groundbreaking stuff for the lore.

Also you seem to be leaving out all of the new IPs we've seen on Wii U and 3DS coming from Nintendo.

Compare all of these to Star Fox: Zero, which is literally a re-imagining of a game that only just got remade anyway. Almost all of the lines of dialogue we've seen are right from 64. The levels we have seen so far are just like their 64 incarnations in terms of aesthetic. Even the big new gimmick, the transformations, is from a cancelled Star Fox game most avid fans of the series have actually played due to it's ROM being leaked and even translated.

The difference between all of these other games and Star Fox: Zero is that these other games either reference the past while building off of it, reference games that came out a decade or two ago, keep the references mostly as secrets or unlockables (meaning they are rewards that simply add to the new experience), and in all cases, the entire foundation of the game isn't nostalgic elements, they are just a small part of a bigger experience.

Star Fox: Zero has the same overall story as 64 (even 3D World had a new plot), same locations, same characters, and 99% of it's mechanics are straight from a previous game. The game it is a "re-imagining" of also just got a literal remake not too long ago. It's a much more jarring case than any of the others you listed, and those other games having a few nostalgic elements doesn't excuse the sheer lack of originality Star Fox: Zero has in every aspect we have seen so far.



Sonic's problem wasn't too many characters, it was too many gameplay styles being crammed into one game.

Nobody had a problem with games like S3&K, Sonic Advance, and Sonic Rush. As those games had every character work under the same rough template, but with added abilities.

People have been asking for this for ages and still ask for it today.

SF0 is adding more then X/Y and NSMBU combined LMAO. The controls for starters are immediately different. Rather then aiming and shooting being tied to the control stick, you have control over them separately. And then you have the TV and gamepad having two totally different views, which we already know will lead to interesting situations just from looking at the first boss. You can fly into the thing and take it down from the inside. Then there's the other transformations and the new vehicles, which I'm sure we haven't seen all of yet. I mean, that was just the announcement trailer. Mario Maker wasn't just twelve items and two themes, was it?

The main plot is the same, yes, but what actually happens on each planet is different. We didn't save General Pepper in 64, we didn't fight these sand worms on Titania (with Slippy too), and we didn't have to infiltrate this giant base in a helicopter. Who knows, we might get some real backstory to Fox and Wolf's rivalry or how Bill and Katt know the gang.

I mean, you're judging a game we've seen little of pretty hard.

 

[ChikoLad]

SF0 is adding more then X/Y and NSMBU combined LMAO. The controls for starters are immediately different. Rather then aiming and shooting being tied to the control stick, you have control over them separately. And then you have the TV and gamepad having two totally different views, which we already know will lead to interesting situations just from looking at the first boss. You can fly into the thing and take it down from the inside. Then there's the other transformations and the new vehicles, which I'm sure we haven't seen all of yet. I mean, that was just the announcement trailer. Mario Maker wasn't just twelve items and two themes, was it?

The main plot is the same, yes, but what actually happens on each planet is different. We didn't save General Pepper in 64, we didn't fight these sand worms on Titania (with Slippy too), and we didn't have to infiltrate this giant base in a helicopter. Who knows, we might get some real backstory to Fox and Wolf's rivalry or how Bill and Katt know the gang.

I mean, you're judging a game we've seen little of pretty hard.

Star Fox: Zero definitely is not doing more than those games.

The controls aren't new. 64 3D had a gyro mode and people have said Zero controls very similarly to that (and I can gather as much just by watching people play it). I'm pretty certain they added that gyro mode to 64 3D to test the waters for Zero.

The dual screen mechanic doesn't actually add much to the game. It seems more like it would be nice to give spectators a more cinematic view on the TV, but other than that it adds very little to the actual gameplay.

All of the other stuff you mentioned are very minor differences in level scenarios (also the first boss in Zero is a direct copy of the enemy base bosses from Star Fox 2. Even the aesthetic design of the core is similar) that once again emphasises how this really doesn't feel like a new, fresh title, and just a slightly different version of one we've already played.

Don't get me wrong, I'm still looking forward to Zero and I'm sure I'll get some enjoyment out of it. But it really isn't a fresh experience. I could have forgiven ALL of this if the game had online, or at LEAST a proper co-op feature or something, but it doesn't even have those.

It's sad that I can legitimately say that something like Kingdom Hearts 2: Final Mix feels more like a progression to it's series than Star Fox: Zero looks to be. The former is literally a remixed version of an existing game and released on the same system as the original, yet it actually felt really different in a lot of ways. Star Fox: Zero is on a console a few generations forward from 64, yet it still barely seems any different.

 

[Heroine of Winds]

I'd never got why a game made in 2015 doesn't have online multiplayer. Sure it's Miyamoto's idea, but something like Star Fox should have online and not be a game that was like it's made in the 90's.

With that logic, maybe Star Fox Zero shouldn't have been a $60 release.

 

[ChikoLad]

I'd never got why a game made in 2015 doesn't have online multiplayer. Sure it's Miyamoto's idea, but something like Star Fox should have online and not be a game that was like it's made in the 90's.

With that logic, maybe Star Fox Zero shouldn't have been a $60 release.

This is kind of my mindset.

There is no point going around it - this game's story mode will be 5 hours long, tops. Star Fox games (not counting Adventures) are known for being really short. This game will be no exception, especially with Miyamoto at the helm.

Now, with Platinum Games working on it, I bet it will have a lot of replayability too, but I still would have it be a decently long story mode as well as having that replayability.

 

[IanTheGamer]

I think that Platinum should develop the next Star Fox game independent of EAD, with Miyamoto in a minor advisory role, Since Platinum likes strong female characters, they'd do a really good job with Krystal

 

[LancerStaff]

Star Fox: Zero definitely is not doing more than those games.

The controls aren't new. 64 3D had a gyro mode and people have said Zero controls very similarly to that (and I can gather as much just by watching people play it). I'm pretty certain they added that gyro mode to 64 3D to test the waters for Zero.

The dual screen mechanic doesn't actually add much to the game. It seems more like it would be nice to give spectators a more cinematic view on the TV, but other than that it adds very little to the actual gameplay.

All of the other stuff you mentioned are very minor differences in level scenarios (also the first boss in Zero is a direct copy of the enemy base bosses from Star Fox 2. Even the aesthetic design of the core is similar) that once again emphasises how this really doesn't feel like a new, fresh title, and just a slightly different version of one we've already played.

Don't get me wrong, I'm still looking forward to Zero and I'm sure I'll get some enjoyment out of it. But it really isn't a fresh experience. I could have forgiven ALL of this if the game had online, or at LEAST a proper co-op feature or something, but it doesn't even have those.

It's sad that I can legitimately say that something like Kingdom Hearts 2: Final Mix feels more like a progression to it's series than Star Fox: Zero looks to be. The former is literally a remixed version of an existing game and released on the same system as the original, yet it actually felt really different in a lot of ways. Star Fox: Zero is on a console a few generations forward from 64, yet it still barely seems any different.

643D doesn't let you aim separately from controlling the ship, 0 doesn't let you even control the ship with the gyro. Not even close... Heck, they've even rearranged all the buttons so you can effectively play with twin sticks if you'd like.

The dual screens lets you lock on to a target but then chase something else. Like in the Star Wolf fight (you know there's going to be one) you could lock on to Wolf but then get Andrew off of Slippy. It also lets you look at enemies that would normally be offscreen without just simply losing sight of what you're flying at, or easily get at nooks and crannies. I think there's a lot of potential to be had here.

Most people have never played Starfox 2, though. I don't see anything wrong with using scraped ideas anyhow...

Legitimately curious, why is multiplayer such a big deal for Starfox? I always just saw it as the shoddy minigame thing you'd play twice in all the games from the 2000s. Starfox's mechanics always made it completely devoid of depth... Outside of Assault, but the Arwings weren't the main focus there. Heck, the biggest problem with Assault was that the multiplayer took up too much of the game. The campaign was hilariously short and wasn't fun enough to replay. Same major complaint with Metroid Prime Hunters, since the story mode was so weak.

I'd never got why a game made in 2015 doesn't have online multiplayer. Sure it's Miyamoto's idea, but something like Star Fox should have online and not be a game that was like it's made in the 90's.

With that logic, maybe Star Fox Zero shouldn't have been a $60 release.

People said the exact opposite for Splatoon. <_< Campaign is ridiculously short and no replay value, shouldn't of been 60$, yadda yadda yadda...

Again, I want a focused experience. Not something that tries and fails to do it all like LMDM.

 

[ChikoLad]

Star Fox is literally a game about aerial dogfighting.

Why wouldn't someone want that to be online?

Also this game has the Walker which would add to the depth of the game.

But Star Fox is the sort of game that could easily be like, Nintendo's Battlefront. Assault was already a miniature version of that.

Also Assault may have a short campaign but I'd still say it's the best in the series. The story is actually captivating, the voice acting is superb, and in terms of gameplay it had the most variety. Replaying on harder difficulties and going for those scores challenges and S-Flags is also a blast.

 

[Foxus]

I think that Platinum should develop the next Star Fox game independent of EAD, with Miyamoto in a minor advisory role, Since Platinum likes strong female characters, they'd do a really good job with Krystal

Nah Rare should do it.

Nintendo wasn't in the position then (but is now) to buy Rare from Microsoft. Rare and Nintendo intertwined like thorns back in the day. I like their way of modeling (like Fox as my avatar), and probably in my humble opinion, have developed Star Fox best over Namco and Platinum. They could have made Fox's ears a bit pointier, they look too much like mouse ears.

Btw maybe you could use a brighter text color, its a bit hard for me to read. Just a suggestion.

 

[LancerStaff]

Star Fox is literally a game about aerial dogfighting.

Why wouldn't someone want that to be online?

Also this game has the Walker which would add to the depth of the game.

But Star Fox is the sort of game that could easily be like, Nintendo's Battlefront. Assault was already a miniature version of that.

Also Assault may have a short campaign but I'd still say it's the best in the series. The story is actually captivating, the voice acting is superb, and in terms of gameplay it had the most variety. Replaying on harder difficulties and going for those scores challenges and S-Flags is also a blast.

Metroid Prime was a FSP yet people rather clearly did not want multiplayer.

Again, 64, 643D and Command's multiplayer always seemed completely devoid of any depth to me. There's just... Nothing. No thought, no strategy, just fly at each other and mash A. I can do that by myself in single player, but it's actually interesting because there's skill to be had. It's just one of those sad games only a kid can have fun with because he can make up enough scrub rules to make it coherent. Adding in more players just makes it a perpetual dogpile on whoever's leading.

I beat the higher difficulty or difficulties or whatever... Arwing gameplay wasn't really fun, grounded gameplay wasn't special either. Plot was generic, somehow even more generic then 64's. Didn't have enough spine to kill anybody but Pigma and maybe Andrew. Voice acting was okay, but the lines weren't special. Didn't feel a shred of emotion past "Uncle Androoooss!!!" in the first stage. Would of much rather dug out the N64 instead of pixel hunting those flags... Was there even a reason to get high scores?

 

[Foxus]

Metroid Prime was a FSP yet people rather clearly did not want multiplayer.

Again, 64, 643D and Command's multiplayer always seemed completely devoid of any depth to me. There's just... Nothing. No thought, no strategy, just fly at each other and mash A. I can do that by myself in single player, but it's actually interesting because there's skill to be had. It's just one of those sad games only a kid can have fun with because he can make up enough scrub rules to make it coherent. Adding in more players just makes it a perpetual dogpile on whoever's leading.

I beat the higher difficulty or difficulties or whatever... Arwing gameplay wasn't really fun, grounded gameplay wasn't special either. Plot was generic, somehow even more generic then 64's. Didn't have enough spine to kill anybody but Pigma and maybe Andrew. Voice acting was okay, but the lines weren't special. Didn't feel a shred of emotion past "Uncle Androoooss!!!" in the first stage. Would of much rather dug out the N64 instead of pixel hunting those flags... Was there even a reason to get high scores?

So Star Fox isn't necessarily fit for multiplayer so what? That doesn't necessarily mean its in for a death sentence. It's not like Smash, where multiplayer capabilities are endless. Its also not a PC game, which is where a lot of the multiplayer demand spawns from.