DGames Summer Mafia Bash - Day 2 Begins. Deadline Day 2 begins - Deadline 8:00 A.M. CST Monday 6/24

[KevinM]

I can’t believe I’m 900% confirmed town and I’ve got to deal with asking people to kill rockin d0 in a 50 man game. 2019 is wild.

 

[ranmaru]

I don't understand how you re-read Maven's only post and changed your read completely.

Kary I think you would understand it better if you read my posts more thoroughly. I have listed a quote below. This is the second time you seem to be missing posts. (First time you missed Uto's post) What's up with that? (Also, the most important factor for me to change my read was the passage of time, and I also wanted to see if Marshy and others would join, etc)

It's a ***** to find these nowadays, especially since Maven isn't in the archive. (Someone should update that) Basically, Maven has a tendency to lurk as mafia, I'm not sure it's commonly known but he does it more so than his town games. (I have misread his town games when he lurked too) After seeing his vote on Marshy, and a reasoning that I couldn't really see, and no follow up, I realized he actually may be scum here, and I thought wagoning him would be of utmost importance. Now in his town game, rarely I see him do this but in this particular one, he was obvious town, and actually finding mafia earlier than anyone else. (A wall post, but a good wall post calling people out) So this is why I'm running him up with only little posts to read him by. If it weren't for his meta, I would not be running him up nor would I pay too much mind to his post, I would still think of him as more of a question mark as I said in my original reads.

Mafia Maven: Gun Mini Game
Mafia Maven: Death Note Mafia
Town Maven: Crossover Mafia

Ran what do you think of Nabe? Because frankly you are tunneling on Maven right now.

I'm actually null on Nabe because I have seen times where he has done exactly this, as town. Usually when he replaces into slots. Totally fine with him dying as a back burner lynch if he doesn't step up to play this game phase.

I don't know if that's because you're town and you're just being daft, or because you were in the spotlight earlier and you need to push on someone else.

Kary, this is the first time you have actually interacted with me in thread, why is this? Why have you not talked to me until now?

 

[ranmaru]

you literally hav the towniest ppl (besides kevin) in me, frozen, ryker as scum and jtb as top town is top 2 worst reads in the game

you are essentially another member of the scumteam and this is a repeat of last years game where your reads were the worst in the game. amazing how you do not learn, sincerely

I take back what I said about scum you saying that. I just looked at Civ 5 Mafia and you said *that's bad* but this reflects more of your town game last time I think. I'm sure this is not out of your range though, you out played me as scum last in Civ 5 so I'm keeping my eyes on you. I think part of my problem with you was I didn't really have any idea of where you were looking. Why did you vote Maven with me? I'll re-read JTB and give my conclusion on him later. You said 'in due time' when I asked you to talk to me. So, is it finally time, or what?

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

JTB

Spoiler

to begin my dissection, i am interested in focusing in on jtb. before this, i felt like he had some formidable early play that has slowly petered down to a point where his contributions have been... harmless. i almost became aloof to him, but paid enough attention to his play to not feel perturbed.

page 5

Spoiler

what's the difference between doop's vote and maven's #115 vote that you didn't acknowledge?

within the context of the thread at this point, i think that this is an interesting question to pose. in fact, it may be the very question that prompted the subsequent wagon around maven. the motivation behind it is not as shiny as i initially felt, though: the beings are telling me that it's nothing more than observational, and i feel compelled to agree with them. scum has just as much access to observation, but the most this tells me is that if jtb is scum, marshy is probably town (however, i would say marshy's shining a spotlight on jtb in the manner he did is more indicative of that).

TL;DR I would like to read your scum game so I can meta you as scum in this one

i dont appreciate the posturing of jexs' post that jtb does here. in reality, jexs' inquisition was an innocuous one, and whether we like to admit it or not, some townies like to meta other townies. there doesnt seem to be much of a want to understand.

aside from that, i dont hate jtbs contributions on this page, but i dont like them. marshy stated recently that

he immediately spins any potential interpretation of an event to a negative one. consistent with a scum mindset of manipulation. townies weigh both sides, scum elect to instead determine how they can make someone look bad in a given situation

and in this instance, the above jex quote is that. unless proven wrong later in the thread, it is like the conclusion is set before the natural phase of trying to decide. now, bullheadedness is a possibility, but oftentimes we can observe that behavior develop over time. in this case, it doesnt.

page 6

Spoiler

fwiw I had a similar reaction to Doop to that post and I'm okay with him pushing on it. "Reminding" people to breadcrumb, even if you are just mentioning it in goodwill as a refresher, just employs the Streisand effect and has a detriment against those that would follow it

yeah, which is why I took a neutral read to it

I don't like that Marshy didn't mention Maven's vote for the same post and also that Doops hasn't really followed up on his Marshy vote

hm okay

but this chain of events leads me to think that his sights were primarily set on the marshy-doops development, and that he was just looking to throw out quick quips because, well, thats just what some people do early game. despite its brevity, i like this sequence.

page 8

Spoiler

Nevermind, I already feeling a carsick and I don't want to throw up during engagement photos, so I'll keep this short for now

I don't like how Jexs and Ran approached questioning UP as the answers he could potential provide have no bearing how to read his alignment. Specifically, Ran asking the questions I previously quoted and Jexs asking something about UP's scum meta that could just be used as a source to push a mislynch.

HOWEVER Ran stands out far more (and this sucks being on mobile because I can't bring up the posts) but the change in how he was posted from questioning the new player UP (questioning every piece of his posts) versus how he responded to veteran player Kevin (very short responses, no questioning) makes me believe that Ran is attempting to earn town points off picking on someone that won't bite back

How ironic that my RVS vote would end up on the person I have as most scummy currently

i dont necessarily agree with the conclusion in bold here, but this feels like genuine scumhunting. early quips aside, he lays out his gripes with what he gathered from jex and ran in response to people wondering. this reads less as framing something bad outright, and more as an interpretation of events.

page 12

Spoiler

3. JeXs
5. #HBC | Gorf
6. #HBC | Nabe
7. #HBC | Kary
13. Maven89
14. Rockin
16. JTB

All these people can be plays today imo

its interesting to me that ff is pinning jtb on this list of who can be plays in spite of the fact that ff has yet to mention jtb at all. there was some murmurings of jtb suspicions at best, but not much. and this sort of shoehorned read doesnt really fit in with how ff established his personality. nabe, maven, and rockin are simple to chalk up as policy, and jex, gorf and kary had some sort of substantiation for their inclusion. but not jtb. i feel like on a scum!jtb flip this might be worth looking into if this pattern is consistent from ff. unless this stance sees development later on. but that's neither here nor there without a flip.

page 13

Spoiler

Nah you didnt miss a JTB read, and if you asked for one earlier I missed it so if I did my b

JTB is in my "can die" pile but dont have any kind of strong read. Just skimmed all his posts and like what has he given us? A grand total of two reads, one null and one townlean, and a townlean with hedging language like "I cant believe Im townreading this slot so early?! lolteehee"? Other than that I just see a lot of criticizing other slots and asking halfassed questions. So yeah, this slot can go.

Liking marshys most recent reads post. Macs analysis of the ran wagon rings true to me. Probably a wagon worth unpacking a bit, I definitely share the sentiment that Ran was opportunist bait. Probably scum among those trying to steer attention in that direction.

If we'd rather just replace maven instead of doing the inactive wagon dance Im fine with swapping to anyone on my "can die" list

this is actually a pretty glaring representation of marshys aforementioned characterization of jtb's play. hes not looking to weigh both sides, to develop a read, hes pretty much determined a solution and frames it negatively. but even then, the read is weak (he even pretty much admits it) and not very emphasized. if they are scummates, i can definitely see this as a soft distancing from ff.

what meta are you referring to in which you are able to read him as scum with only 6 words posted?

here is a more firm example of negative characterization, but given the circumstances, its pretty understandable to me.

yikes

what does an inactive maven vote do for you here when you have say you have suspicion on active slots?

JeXs do you have any thoughts on the people currently voting Maven?

in fact, these quotes tell me that jtb seems perturbed at a wagon forming on maven in this case. considering maven's output, i can see town!jtb using the formulation of maven suspicion to generate reads here if his future play remains in line with that. its not a towntell, but its closer to that than a scumtell from me.

@Gorf I'm claiming vig, do you have an issue with me shooting Tom right now?

UtopianPoyzin feel free to answer the above question too

Alright, I'll indulge you a bit.

What immediate info do you get out of a townMaven or scumMaven if he died right now?

this line of questioning reads as more vapid to me. to me, its never a good look when a player has a motive established, and uses filler questions to lure out content. marshy actually referred to this in his original post, and when i saw it my thought was "this is ****in bull**** youll townread ran for doing this ******** ass **** but scumread someone else?" but taking a step back from my ego, i can see the silver lining. this essentially reads as packing pe.

page 19

Spoiler

Can you point out where Marshy has been helpful towards determining who's scum and how he's actively progress the game?

this is the first hint of progression toward what will become a marshy vote. at this point, his only vocalized concern have been regarding marshy's opening post debacle. i dont really think its bad yet, though: he sees a read he directly disagrees with, and wants to ask a player he presumably still has as null but had prior history with to further substantiate it.

Marshy has been playing very much like a IC (or whatever that term was for newbie games) and he's very active, but i have NO idea what any of his strong reads are outside of hella buddying up to Ryker the past few days. His swap onto Maven was weird as it was all inactivity meta and appears more like trying to get on Rykers good side. so far, the only thing i've gleaned from his play is that he's wanting to make town reads instead of scum

also this

here is jtb's marshy vote. i dont like it. to say hes playing like an ic is a bold claim, and unlike other reads hes given since, its unsubstantiated. i also just fail to see the motivation of getting onto rykers good side, and if hes townreading ryker, well... that means rykers on HIS good side, so hes bound to treat him fairly well. the worst part to me, though, is that hes not willing to extend the same sort of grace onto marshys lack of expressed reads that he seems to for other players. many players have remained quiet about a lot of their reads. i think its a good strategy, and clearly, jtb seems to respect it since hes made no sort of effort to extract reads from anyone (including marshy). why hasnt jtb involved himself with marshy if he felt like marshy wasnt giving reads? the excuse of "not wanting to effect his perception" doesnt really apply here because jtb didnt show his cards in any real way before this. this alone honestly brings my jtb to a null-at-best sort of read, because i have a hard time seeing town try to justify a read in this way but give no effort toward substantiating it well, in spite of previously having done so.

ive been keeping up with developments of peoples interactions with jtb thus far, and will get to a summary of what i think matters later. but one of my strongest question marks on a first glance of the wagon, jex, seems to be fairly consistent in saying that he feels like jtb is null and has been trying to understand why people are townreading him while doing so:

page 20 is where marshy officially posts his case on jtb, and jex and mac immediately hop on. i dont have an issue with how these guys got on. i explained jex earlier but mac had just voiced agreement with kevin putting him on a "can die list" and called ran putting jtb at the top of his town list preposterous. considering how hes played thus far, this is consistent with how he came onto the wagon. jex and mac lent support to the wagon, and they read as "pressure that can go either way, but leaning toward a solid

page 21

Spoiler

So I left on on page 14 and yall have no ****ing idea how happy I was to get to page 20/21 and see people moving to JTB. I get the grimiest ****ing vibe every time I read one of his posts

Jexs still seems to be wayyyy over accommodating and afraid to offend or put anyone off. Which is funny because I remember a post Jex made saying they were reading some slot as town because that slot was unafraid of offending people. Kind of ironic.

For all the people out there scratching their heads over why I moved from Jexs to Maven, it was because I agreed with ryker that we needed to actually have some meaningful wagons. Yeah I had a light scumlean on Jex but it wasn't some crazy ****ing conviction lmao. Maven's slot is in my "can go pile" as is Jex. Jex wagon wasn't getting any traction so my vote was better used elsewhere. I didn't just abandon my belief that Jex was a decent play today.

Really liking Kevin's slight pull pack on his confidence re: Mac town. He had no reason to share those thoughts other than being fully transparent. Like there's no pressure on Mac at all and no one was questioning his townlean on the slot. Kevmo lookin real brownie townie

Ran don't replace out man you're playing fine. Its D1, people are gonna have wildy different reads. I don't know the full context as to why marshy is so frustrated but I think that was just like an off the cuff remark ya know? I mean I followed your reasoning for why you think me/ryker/marshy are scummy but obviously I don't agree with it. But the logic of associating me with them is clear to me based on what you're saying you thought was scummy. So like yeah I mean I agree with marshy I think your reads are pretty off man but it didn't need to be that harsh of a criticism

How quickly are we gonna get an update from mods re: whether or not we can get replacement(s) in quick before deadline? I appreciate maven showing up to formally bow out so we can move along but damn thats frustrating with the clock ticking away and the slot essentially remaining silent.

Unvote: Maven

Vote: JTB

even when he votes for jtb, his approach to reading him is so. glaringly. inconsistent with how hes approached the rest of his reads. everything else he's done has been laid out and made clear. jtb just gets shade. coming from ff, it's incredibly weak.

ut seems to be the last person to hop on the jtb wagon, and itd be hard to pry my townread of him out of my hands so he gets a pass from me. the rest of the page is pretty much jtb responding to pressure and, like, its fine. nothing bad, nothing good.

 

[ranmaru]

Yea I totally feel like Ran's reread is waaaaaaaaay too dependent on material that just straight up doesn't hold weight man! I really don't feel killing my high like poking every hole possible, but just for a few:

-Your marshy tells are founded on a meta that involves how he deals with you, TvT. This is, like, with the confirmation bias of knowing you were both town after the games were done. You, like, admit to having a slow start, and just to play the meta game, isn't that contradictory to your town meta? Why should marshy read you as town for reasons you base your whole game on: meta?
-You say he's playing on the armchair or like an IC and watching the game go by. Yet you neglect the post where his contributions actively push narratives and develop connections. This is a six day Day. If people wanna watch what's unfolding, let them watch what's unfolding. This is almost the exact same thing we can say about Ryker, but he's doing it more actively. Why does Ryker need to pioneer cases that he isn't passionate about while being passionate about various other contributions in the thread? Just because they're not loud, doesn't mean they're scum, man. We don't live in a freakin vacuum!
-Your FF read is 100% contingent on associations that don't matter yet because we don't have a flip on players that you have paper thin cases on.
-Your Maven read is 100% contingent on meta that doesn't apply because he's not lurking, he's just not playing.

And to answer Macman's question, the worst part about this is that this riddled with examples of you being almost too dumb to be scum moreso than its scumminess. Like, I can't imagine feeling like you need to contrive reads and thinking these are good ones. But I can wifom the mess out of myself into thinking it shouldn't matter, take it for what it is, and what it is is not ****ing scumhunting. It's playwriting. It's a soap opera. And that's really really pathetic because instead of lynching you, everybody is going to think you're too stupid to be scum. Your reads are based on ****ing nothing. It's meta you've framed in your own head, contingent on your vantage point, and associations that you hope exist.

Mac, I got bored of pushing Ran. Doop is a way more interesting push to me and I'd like to see where him vs Pythag vs Rockin goes. If I had to order those three, I'd say Doop >>>>> Rockin > Pythag

First, my scum tell for that one, was based on what I did as scum, you forgot to talk about that. I do think it's more likely if a person isn't stepping up for their town reads as much can be more likely scum than not, since it's easy to omit that and let a lynch go through, keeping their hands clean. It's not contradictory to my town meta. I have already stated that I have had very similar games to this one, including Mafia Sleep Over 3, and Dr. Who Mafia. So, to answer this, it was half meta, and half scum tell that I have found usually works. Question: When you were saying that your read topped off because he wasn't stopping your push, were you thinking it was a possible buddy connection, or more confirmation of me being scum to you in your POV because Marshy saw no reason to defend me, therefore TvS in your eyes?

Which post was driving connections and pushing narratives? Please link me, help me understand. What I can certainly say, is they are playing differently than what I'd expect from their town games. I feel like I have been initiating things more than them. Fine, maybe loudness doesn't = Town, but would you be surprised that I would be wary due to this?

Fair enough on this point, I did say it was weak and I didn't like that one paragraph, but contingent on my Ryker and Marshy read, which I was more confident in. I did mention it was weak, but I put it all out there because I want people to consider it, today of all days when everyone is present.

I'd have to disagree. He already made an intro post which includes game content.

---

Finally, I thinks it's unfair for you to call my analysis as *all meta*, it was partially meta, but also scum tells as well. I notice you say UP has had more weight with their logic, so I'm wondering what about my logic you feel is faulty. If you feel it's me using too much meta, I'll try my bestest to strip my reads of meta. Also, after Ryker responds to Kary, I'd like for you to compare Kary's analysis of Ryker and my reads, and just your opinion of it.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

tbh it reeks of a distraction wagon with the goal of derailing JTB pressure, ****in narcs might be afoot here
/QUOTE]
That would be because that's what it is.

I'm not sold on a JTB lynch. I knew this one had some weight, so I moved to a something that could be a competitor. I'd have moved to Rockin if I thought three quarters of the cast wouldn't roll their eyes and ignore that wagon unless it had seven votes.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

my final thoughts regarding the status of jtbs alignment are complex to summarize. it would be disingenuous of myself to not recognize some quality moments from the earlier part of the game coming from him, and recognizing patterns of consistency that would lead me to believe that he is more of an innocent party that is short to speak. his rhetoric has been at least slightly overexaggerated by marshy, but it is understandable given the perception through which marshy sees jtb. as the game progresses, however, his willingness to pad out his play becomes more and more apparent, and a lack of scumhunting does find its way through. i have it in me to suspend my disbelief well enough to consider that he might be wanting to hold some cards closer to his chest (evidenced by how he develops some of his earlier reads), but his expounding on his marshy read is littered with proof of selling a narrative, rather than scumhunting.

if, out of the 5 people on the wagon currently, theres scum on the wagon, its ff. in short, ff's history of expressing his read on jtb throughout the game is incredibly inconsistent with how he has done so with the rest of his play. i do not think that he is the play toDay by any means but, upon a scumflip, he becomes the #1 player i want to further dissect.

i would say jtb is a good candidate for lynch, but i am not as convinced on him being the play as i am doop.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Thanks for that post, Gorf. The big one full of quotes because that helps me reanalyze my own read, which still stands. I don't really put stock in that "takes everything as a negative interpretation" because it's Day 1. That was my go to strategy as town for years on Day 1 and the only reason I stopped is because it's a ***** to do every game and you run out of half baked things to string people up for. I think, in general, a reaching point is better than no point on Day 1.

The FF line is intersting, because before reaching your posts, I was trying to think of what FF has actually "said" about JTB other than him just being icky. "His posts all give off scum vibes" I think is the case I remember and I need to go look at it.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

These are all 5 of FF's posts that include JTB in them.

3. JeXs
5. #HBC | Gorf
6. #HBC | Nabe
7. #HBC | Kary
13. Maven89
14. Rockin
16. JTB

All these people can be plays today imo

JTB on the **** list. Simple.

Nah you didnt miss a JTB read, and if you asked for one earlier I missed it so if I did my b

JTB is in my "can die" pile but dont have any kind of strong read. Just skimmed all his posts and like what has he given us? A grand total of two reads, one null and one townlean, and a townlean with hedging language like "I cant believe Im townreading this slot so early?! lolteehee"? Other than that I just see a lot of criticizing other slots and asking halfassed questions. So yeah, this slot can go.

This one is in response to me, I think.

#HBC | Gorf having just gone through JTB's posts, is that an accurate summary of JTB's reads from the thread at this point?

So I left on on page 14 and yall have no ****ing idea how happy I was to get to page 20/21 and see people moving to JTB. I get the grimiest ****ing vibe every time I read one of his posts

Jexs still seems to be wayyyy over accommodating and afraid to offend or put anyone off. Which is funny because I remember a post Jex made saying they were reading some slot as town because that slot was unafraid of offending people. Kind of ironic.

For all the people out there scratching their heads over why I moved from Jexs to Maven, it was because I agreed with ryker that we needed to actually have some meaningful wagons. Yeah I had a light scumlean on Jex but it wasn't some crazy ****ing conviction lmao. Maven's slot is in my "can go pile" as is Jex. Jex wagon wasn't getting any traction so my vote was better used elsewhere. I didn't just abandon my belief that Jex was a decent play today.

Really liking Kevin's slight pull pack on his confidence re: Mac town. He had no reason to share those thoughts other than being fully transparent. Like there's no pressure on Mac at all and no one was questioning his townlean on the slot. Kevmo lookin real brownie townie

Ran don't replace out man you're playing fine. Its D1, people are gonna have wildy different reads. I don't know the full context as to why marshy is so frustrated but I think that was just like an off the cuff remark ya know? I mean I followed your reasoning for why you think me/ryker/marshy are scummy but obviously I don't agree with it. But the logic of associating me with them is clear to me based on what you're saying you thought was scummy. So like yeah I mean I agree with marshy I think your reads are pretty off man but it didn't need to be that harsh of a criticism

How quickly are we gonna get an update from mods re: whether or not we can get replacement(s) in quick before deadline? I appreciate maven showing up to formally bow out so we can move along but damn thats frustrating with the clock ticking away and the slot essentially remaining silent.

Unvote: Maven

Vote: JTB

No cropping on this post so that I can show there isn't further explanation other than grimy vibes.

Updated can go pool:

3. JeXs
6. #HBC | Nabe
13. Maven89
16. JTB


Kary and gorf are putting in enough effort and havent really set off any alarm bells for me so they left the pool. JTB just comes off scummier to me every post. Jexs can still go imo, narrowly behind JTB for top scumpick. Mavens slot is obviously a big fat question mark/liability which is lame. Nabe I don't really have a good reason to want gone but I'm essentially trying to signal that I'd be willing to pressure the slot

Just ISO'd pythag to try to figure out whats up with that wagon and frankly idk wtf yall are on. Pythags posts all seem fine to me. Funnily enough, even though I disagree with him, his final line from #778 re: JTB suspicions is exactly how I feel about pythag suspicions lmao "Can someone tell me why they think JTB is scummy? Or at least lynchworthy? Nothing I saw really struck me; I'm not convinced." Like just swap JTB for pythag and that's like verbatim what I was thinking when I saw votes shifting onto pythag

tbh it reeks of a distraction wagon with the goal of derailing JTB pressure, ****in narcs might be afoot here

but seriously if someone has a legitimately good reason to think pythag is a strong scum read I'd love to hear it

but even more seriously people should get on the JTB wagon

and even more more seriously this is legit the most fun but also chill mafia game I've played in in like a long *** time. I'm really like the general tenor of the discourse. obviously playing with the ****in homies is biasing me to the Nth degree but still like this is just a chill af game and I'm likin it

And derailing JTB wagon is bad and wagoning JTB is good.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

JTB is in my "can die" pile but dont have any kind of strong read. Just skimmed all his posts and like what has he given us? A grand total of two reads, one null and one townlean, and a townlean with hedging language like "I cant believe Im townreading this slot so early?! lolteehee"? Other than that I just see a lot of criticizing other slots and asking halfassed questions. So yeah, this slot can go.

and

I get the grimiest ****ing vibe every time I read one of his posts

Are the only explanation I have of his JTB stance.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

The others on that wagon are (in order from latest join time to earliest)

UP - who I doubt I'll be lynching at the moment, and the only one who voted after FF.
Mac
JeXs
and Marshy

I want to run through each of them.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

#HBC | Mac has been poking at JTB all day. It seems he's had an itch to scratch with that slot since early on because he thought the Ran wagon was gross and never got the correct response he wanted to scratch it. There's not much explanation of a JTB read from him, but it's obviously something he's been working on all phase.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

First, my scum tell for that one, was based on what I did as scum, you forgot to talk about that. I do think it's more likely if a person isn't stepping up for their town reads as much can be more likely scum than not, since it's easy to omit that and let a lynch go through, keeping their hands clean. It's not contradictory to my town meta. I have already stated that I have had very similar games to this one, including Mafia Sleep Over 3, and Dr. Who Mafia. So, to answer this, it was half meta, and half scum tell that I have found usually works. Question: When you were saying that your read topped off because he wasn't stopping your push, were you thinking it was a possible buddy connection, or more confirmation of me being scum to you in your POV because Marshy saw no reason to defend me, therefore TvS in your eyes?

Which post was driving connections and pushing narratives? Please link me, help me understand. What I can certainly say, is they are playing differently than what I'd expect from their town games. I feel like I have been initiating things more than them. Fine, maybe loudness doesn't = Town, but would you be surprised that I would be wary due to this?

Fair enough on this point, I did say it was weak and I didn't like that one paragraph, but contingent on my Ryker and Marshy read, which I was more confident in. I did mention it was weak, but I put it all out there because I want people to consider it, today of all days when everyone is present.

I'd have to disagree. He already made an intro post which includes game content.

---

Finally, I thinks it's unfair for you to call my analysis as *all meta*, it was partially meta, but also scum tells as well. I notice you say UP has had more weight with their logic, so I'm wondering what about my logic you feel is faulty. If you feel it's me using too much meta, I'll try my bestest to strip my reads of meta. Also, after Ryker responds to Kary, I'd like for you to compare Kary's analysis of Ryker and my reads, and just your opinion of it.

i notice that you have yet to reiterate your concurrent (at least I assume they are because youre still talking about them) case with 0% meta and 0% associative tells. can you go ahead and do that for me?

re para 1: it is imperative that i ignore the meta talk you bring up, so this is me actively doing that. in isolation, not defending your town tells is a great way of assessing your town tells. and on Day 1, thats like the best time to do it. its almost like, if youre wrong about that town tell, youre doing scums work for them by defending them haphazardly. plus, it looks like a chainsaw defense if you were to flip scum, when it doesnt have to if you just step out of it. and sometimes there are just better things to focus on. to answer your question, id say the latter, but i dont know what youre refering to as being tvs. i saw him not defending you as kind of a go ahead to me by him to push you because he wanted to see how it unfolded. historically, if he didnt feel like watching it unfold, hed tell me. thats not a scumtell for him, thats a he-wants-to-watch-where-it-goes tell. i have full confidence that if i kept pushing you, hed tell me to put effort in better places.

re para 2: ehh i dont really feel like digging through marshys post to show you how hes driving connections and pushing narratives. its just been, like, a passive approach and nudging at interesting places that get people (like jex, for example) talking. i dont think its a towntell, but im not pedaling marshy as hard town.

re final para: a lot has to do with the reliance on meta, but it feels like your reads are spun in such a way where you have a scum read, and EVERYTHING that player does is now officially a scumtell. when you lambast a player so hard to the point where obscuring what the player is actually doing becomes the centerfold, you lessen the weight of your read. thats what i meant before when i said your case reads like a soap opera. its too dramatic.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Holy ****, JeXs has mentioned JTB waaaaaaaay more times than either of the previous two.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

#HBC | Mac has been poking at JTB all day. It seems he's had an itch to scratch with that slot since early on because he thought the Ran wagon was gross and never got the correct response he wanted to scratch it. There's not much explanation of a JTB read from him, but it's obviously something he's been working on all phase.

importantly, its also consistent with how macs approached the game thus far

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Can go:
Rockin
Nabe
Maven

Would be ok with going:
Pythag
Doop

Not the play:
JeXs
Tom
KevinM
Ranmaru
Marshy
Gorf
Kary
Mac
Ryker
Poyzin
FrozenFlame
JTB

Notably, JTB has moved from not the play to the play in the last 24 hours.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I liked some of their posts and thoughts. But I don't particularly feel one way or another about them yet, so they're null to me for now.

But is a null read. Null reads can stay, it seems (that's fine).

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

#HBC | Gorf having just gone through JTB's posts, is that an accurate summary of JTB's reads from the thread at this point?

if the null is jex, the townlean is doop, "teehee" is poyzin, and the "grand total of two reads" are ran and an early ass marshy read, then yea i think so

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

During my reread yesterday, I gave more attention to Kary and JTB, as they were 2 slots that I felt I liked some stuff, but had no real impression of whatsoever. I came out of it liking Kary more, and JTB not so much. I don't like that he immediately came to the conclusion that I was attempting to justify a scum read on Poyzin with meta, I don't like how he took issues with you saying a simple no to being called scum.

Quoted to continue my chronicle.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

transcendence is inevitable. release inhibitions and let the universe run its course. once you strip your mind of the shackles, inner peace can be achieved.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Vote: JTB

Wanted to let my questions pan out first but I'm onboard this.

Then the vote.


JeXs disagrees with JTB on the value of meta and how to approach Ranmaru. Then moves on to not liking JTB for wanting meta with which to evaluate Poyzin.

This is ehhhhhhhhhhhhh. If this was a less popular wagon or a player I thought more likely to be independent, I really wouldn't like this. Especially the last point, but I expect JeXs to be a follower and not a leader (which isn't inherently a bad thing) and I HAVE been railing that people should be on wagons that matter, so it's hard to hold him accountable.

But it's still so ehhhhhhhhhh.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I need to actual go through Poyzin too, I guess. I could be wrong there, but god I don't want to.

UtopianPoyzin

Explain to me the progression of your JTB read so I have it in one place and only have to read to doublecheck instead of proving a dozen quotes as context.

 

[ranmaru]

I'm currently on page 9 and I don't agree with your Marshy read, Ran. Did you consider that he could merely be reading you wrongly? I concede that I wrongly remembered most of what he has done, in my memory he was actively engaging people and putting out new thoughts and discussions. Most of what he has done at that point was his interaction with Doop. It brings him down to mild town, I can still see him actively trying to read players. I find his reeling me into the game to be a slight town tell and I don't see him asking this to you as scum. It feels genuine to me.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

**** I don't wanna do marshy. I don't want to do marshy. I don't want to do marshy.


OK, so I'm gonna do marshy. I'm gonna predict what is going to happen. I'm going to read it. I'm going to be unsatisfied with it. I'm going to want to shoot him. This is ALWAYS what happens when I try and read motivation into Day 1 Marshy. Tom I'm putting this read on you. Give me a bunch of it. I'm gonna read it and talk with you about it, but I'm gonna let you take the lead on it.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Hey Rockin .

I see you there. Talk to me about FF's read on JTB. I just posted the whole progression. Tell me what you make of it.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Then the vote.


JeXs disagrees with JTB on the value of meta and how to approach Ranmaru. Then moves on to not liking JTB for wanting meta with which to evaluate Poyzin.

This is ehhhhhhhhhhhhh. If this was a less popular wagon or a player I thought more likely to be independent, I really wouldn't like this. Especially the last point, but I expect JeXs to be a follower and not a leader (which isn't inherently a bad thing) and I HAVE been railing that people should be on wagons that matter, so it's hard to hold him accountable.

But it's still so ehhhhhhhhhh.

is the reasoning or the way jexs jtb read progressed ehh

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Vote FrozenFlame

This can be a fun wagon for a little while.

Gorf and Ran, if there's more you want me to look at, let me know.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

ebwop

is it the reasoning or the way jexs jtb read progressed that feels ehh

for clarity

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

is the reasoning or the way jexs jtb read progressed ehh

The reasoning. He's constantly poking around JTB, partly because JTB is constantly poking him and hounding him about the Ran thing.

The only part I really don't like the progression is the Poyzin meta thing and I guess I don't see the reasoning there either. It's the same thing. I really don't like how that seems to be a major shift (I think it's just additional justification to join a forming wagon) from this slot's ok enough to keep around to can be the play today. It's just so weak I have trouble thinking it should actually effect something.

 

[ranmaru]

That quote with the red, I dislike. That stands out to me, that Jex wanted to slap a town read on Marshy and throw out some bogus explanation for what he was doing. JTB asks Jex what he has done to progress the game, and that in the red seems more like a backpedal.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Vote FrozenFlame

This can be a fun wagon for a little while.

Gorf and Ran, if there's more you want me to look at, let me know.

pinky promise youll engage me on my doop read when i deep dive on it and you have my support

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I think a major reason JeXs finds fault with JTB is that JTB has actively put himself in JeXs path and is poking and prodding at him.

I may have the context wrong given that I am only reading JeXs posts with JTB in them.

Can you confirm #HBC | Gorf ?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

pinky promise youll engage me on my doop read when i deep dive on it and you have my support

I'm fine with going into Doop, but, full disclosure, I don't hate his opening like a lot of people did. He is very far removed from the old DGames culture and his lawyery attitude matches what I imagine he'd play like even know based on what I knew of him as a person like a decade ago.

However, I do need to revisit my read.

 

[JeXs]

The reasoning. He's constantly poking around JTB, partly because JTB is constantly poking him and hounding him about the Ran thing.

The only part I really don't like the progression is the Poyzin meta thing and I guess I don't see the reasoning there either. It's the same thing. I really don't like how that seems to be a major shift (I think it's just additional justification to join a forming wagon) from this slot's ok enough to keep around to can be the play today. It's just so weak I have trouble thinking it should actually effect something.

I don't like what he was doing with Ran and myself. It came off as him slinging mud at our slots and attempting to slowly form a scum read on us. He'll tell you he had me as null, but I don't believe that at all. If he had the conclusion that I'm asking for meta with scummy intent, he should have had me as a scum lean, at the very least.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Pythag vs Doop were just two slots I thought I could generate something with because they'd posted stuff that had caused some people to react. I'm fine with JTB vs FF or something. I think that what we're getting right now is super interesting and what I was hoping I could start last night.

 

[JeXs]

That quote with the red, I dislike. That stands out to me, that Jex wanted to slap a town read on Marshy and throw out some bogus explanation for what he was doing. JTB asks Jex what he has done to progress the game, and that in the red seems more like a backpedal.

My memory was fuzzy, I did a reread and corrected what I thought wrongly.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I don't like what he was doing with Ran and myself. It came off as him slinging mud at our slots and attempting to slowly form a scum read on us. He'll tell you he had me as null, but I don't believe that at all. If he had the conclusion that I'm asking for meta with scummy intent, he should have had me as a scum lean, at the very least.

Cool!

JTB response?



Also, JeXs, while I have you, can you elaborate on the Poyzin thing with JTB so I'm not misconstruing you. I'm somewhat afraid that I've read your take wrong.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

The reasoning. He's constantly poking around JTB, partly because JTB is constantly poking him and hounding him about the Ran thing.

The only part I really don't like the progression is the Poyzin meta thing and I guess I don't see the reasoning there either. It's the same thing. I really don't like how that seems to be a major shift (I think it's just additional justification to join a forming wagon) from this slot's ok enough to keep around to can be the play today. It's just so weak I have trouble thinking it should actually effect something.

thats fair

im mostly good with jexs progression onto the wagon for now because of how consistent considering jtbs play has been for him (i keep asking myself as scum!jex why would he keep doing that, especially when jtb had no heat on him?), and because i can totally gel with him seeing marshys case and feeling confident going down that route. only semblance of foul play i can see is if there was something fishy going on while marshy was prodding him on his jtb read and how that progressed, and on gut, i doubt theres foul play there.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Hmm.

Working on a reads list on the side.

Ya know, I don't know where JTB goes on it right now. It's gonna look really funny when I go down each member of his wagon, vote someone on it, then put him in null.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

I'm fine with going into Doop, but, full disclosure, I don't hate his opening like a lot of people did. He is very far removed from the old DGames culture and his lawyery attitude matches what I imagine he'd play like even know based on what I knew of him as a person like a decade ago.

However, I do need to revisit my read.

well save the talk for when we revisit him.

Unvote

Vote: Frozenflame