DGames Summer Mafia Bash - Day 2 Begins. Deadline Day 2 begins - Deadline 8:00 A.M. CST Monday 6/24

[KevinM]

Also Ran if you decide against it come back and vote Rockin with me. Thanks love you.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

I can see JTB being a ****in narc but all I remember that’s been, like, noteworthy is appreciating his entrance and occasionally chiming in. I can totally see it as noncommittal but I’ll read back on him real quick to get a better look man

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Either way it’s a ****in spiiiiicy take and I love me some freakin spicy takes man!

Yea

 

[Rockin]

Lmao that pretty much obv towns Marshy for me ^

40%jk 60%allday

Bruins lost that sucks, Rockin is still alive that’s bad.

Doop vs Pythag would be B cool but I can’t tell if Doop is scum vibes or new player contradiction vibes.

Macman lurking doesn’t necessarily mean anything yet but he is definitely more indecisive as scum.

JTB smells a lil funky.

Actually down to wagon:
Rockin
JTB
Ranmaru
UP
Nabe
Maven
Doop
Pythag

In that order really.

Wow gotta love a day 1 where I’m cool with half the cast going. That’s how you know it’s gonna be a good day.

Alright KevinM, I'll bite.

Why is it you want to lynch me? What is your case against me?

You've been preaching this for several days now and we're getting closer to Deadline, so I'd like to get informed of the case before it happens.

 

[Rockin]

Ok I'm not wasting anymore time. Let the record state you said the same **** as scum though, Marshy.

Ryker, I don't even care to explain right now. If my reads are ****, no need for me to spend night and day on this game.

I sincerely hope you guys lynch scum today, maybe it is actually Maven. No idea why Nabe has yet to post. I wouldn't mind if he were lynched either.

Unvote; Vote: Maven
Replace out

Adios, I am going to play Splatoon 2 and Smash bros instead.

Instead of taking the comments personally, maybe take a few hours break from the thread? Remember, this is Dgames, and topics WILL get heated at times. If you're that confident about your reads, then persue it. Just be prepared to explain your thought process.

At the end of the day, we're all friends here. I mean, you wouldn't replace out of a Mafia Sleepover game, so why leave from your buds after a long hiatus from one another? :D

 

[#HBC | Kary]

I really wanted to get completely caught up before posting anything substantial but I'm busy this evening and at this point I feel like I'll just catch up during the Night phase. I may have missed anything from page 16 onwards.

My problem with Ryker is that he isn't doing anything that makes me town read him.

I'm not trying to use it as a shield to avoid playing the game.

Yes, it's true that here and there Ryker has questioned people about their reads, c.f. Gorf on Ran, Poyzin on Doops, etc.
But mostly, Ryker is playing waggon police. "More votes good!" he shouts, and while it is true that pushing waggons moves the game forward, generating reactions and opinions, it is equally true that discussion is important. It is not good enough just to vote for someone.

What isn't Ryker doing?
Firstly, I feel like he lacks direction in who he is pursuing as scum. It is reasonable to have several people in your lynch pool on Day 1, but it feels a little disingenuous for Ryker to be pestering people into voting, without offering those people something to vote for. His push on Maven in particular irks me. My own opinion on Maven is that if he were scum, it would not be smart of him to say something controversial during RVS and then dip out completely.
A waggon on a slot that isn't posting doesn't achieve a great deal in my opinion, and so essentially I do not understand what the payoff is supposed to be from Ryker playing activity police.
Secondly, I don't feel like Ryker has asked anything particularly insightful or made any criticism that suggests to me he is trying to evaluate the behaviour of other players. To take an example, his asking Gorf about a Ranmaru read could, in a possible scenario, be a scum Ryker trying to evaluate the prospects of pushing a mislynch, and to my mind is a very general question that doesn't demand a great deal from Gorf's reply.

Now, with all of that said, I don't think the absence of this particular behaviour from Ryker counts against him.
To me (up to page 16), it leaves him at a could-go-either-way null, because frankly I can't tell where his head is at or what his stances are.

Which is why I found marshy's read on Ryker interesting.

with him having probably the most posts of any player, is it unreasonable to see him as a proactive slot? if ryker is "coasting," is that problematic and if so what would/should you expect him to b doing instead in this gamestate?

I think I have answered this sufficiently, I just wanted to point out that I'm not a fan of you to receiving a question about Ryker and borderline asking me to answer it for you.

rykers posts show me hes taking a "big picture" approach. hes interjected in discourse and prodded at people for the sake of drawing more information. hes the main player who has actually demanded people place down votes and hop on wagons with the intent of analyzing it later. not letting people get away with halfassed contributions is one of his highest priorities which is more consistent with a townie trying to hold the town to a certain standard of play vs a scum who doesnt have to put in the legwork that he has to get townread and/or have control. i can tell that hes thinking about the game on a deeper level than most and is quietly thinking to himself on what hes going to do with the wagons and how hes going to prod certain people as we get closer to the deadline for the sake of maximizing results. he has a wide scope and i can tell this by the useful questions hes asked to multiple people. he has a loose plan that hes working on and i expect it will come to fruition as the dayphase becomes meatier. this is a difficult to fake for an extended period of time. this is contrasted to when he is scum where he APPEARS to b doing the same thing at a glance, but it doesnt have the depth. hes more about showmanship, being top dog, and driving an agenda while laying down the foundations for him getting away with **** should anyone challenge him

(w.r.t the bold) I feel like you are giving Ryker the benefit of the doubt for no particular reason. I think you are correct in saying Ryker isn't showing classic scumtells e.g. trying to show off, strong-arm the game, etc. But personally I don't see any evidence of depth from him and I am skeptical of how you managed to get to this read so quickly. It's possible that you just have a better meta on Ryker than me, but this read from you set off red flags for me because it didn't seem genuine. It's more as though you looked at what Ryker was doing and then used that as a basis to give him a town read, rather than you looked at his slot with skepticism and then found reason to believe he was town. Maybe (for example) you're trying to buddy him by giving him a town read.

I have a couple more points about marshy, but they may be rendered obsolete by more recent events, and I'm out of time right this second.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Well, my aunt had some complications with her heart surgery. She should be okay, but I'm going out there like now.

 

[JeXs]

Good luck! I hope she's fine.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I'll try and keep up today, but I dunno what it's gonna look like. @ me with stuff if you absolutely need me.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Driving for now tho

 

[KevinM]

Time to QL Ryker

 

[KevinM]

Err i mean. Good luck

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

So I left on on page 14 and yall have no ****ing idea how happy I was to get to page 20/21 and see people moving to JTB. I get the grimiest ****ing vibe every time I read one of his posts

Jexs still seems to be wayyyy over accommodating and afraid to offend or put anyone off. Which is funny because I remember a post Jex made saying they were reading some slot as town because that slot was unafraid of offending people. Kind of ironic.

For all the people out there scratching their heads over why I moved from Jexs to Maven, it was because I agreed with ryker that we needed to actually have some meaningful wagons. Yeah I had a light scumlean on Jex but it wasn't some crazy ****ing conviction lmao. Maven's slot is in my "can go pile" as is Jex. Jex wagon wasn't getting any traction so my vote was better used elsewhere. I didn't just abandon my belief that Jex was a decent play today.

Really liking Kevin's slight pull pack on his confidence re: Mac town. He had no reason to share those thoughts other than being fully transparent. Like there's no pressure on Mac at all and no one was questioning his townlean on the slot. Kevmo lookin real brownie townie

Ran don't replace out man you're playing fine. Its D1, people are gonna have wildy different reads. I don't know the full context as to why marshy is so frustrated but I think that was just like an off the cuff remark ya know? I mean I followed your reasoning for why you think me/ryker/marshy are scummy but obviously I don't agree with it. But the logic of associating me with them is clear to me based on what you're saying you thought was scummy. So like yeah I mean I agree with marshy I think your reads are pretty off man but it didn't need to be that harsh of a criticism

How quickly are we gonna get an update from mods re: whether or not we can get replacement(s) in quick before deadline? I appreciate maven showing up to formally bow out so we can move along but damn thats frustrating with the clock ticking away and the slot essentially remaining silent.

Unvote: Maven

Vote: JTB

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Updated can go pool:

3. JeXs
6. #HBC | Nabe
13. Maven89
16. JTB


Kary and gorf are putting in enough effort and havent really set off any alarm bells for me so they left the pool. JTB just comes off scummier to me every post. Jexs can still go imo, narrowly behind JTB for top scumpick. Mavens slot is obviously a big fat question mark/liability which is lame. Nabe I don't really have a good reason to want gone but I'm essentially trying to signal that I'd be willing to pressure the slot

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

I'll try to check in again after raid tonight, gonna be hella tied up for the rest of the day at work and since I'll be working late I gotta go straight from work to raid >_<

 

[JTB]

Can you elaborate more on what made you feel it was more likely to be "I want to justify calling you scum with meta" rather than "I'd like to get a feel for your meta to understand and read you better"?

Because meta is something I always disagree with and when asked, a player can easily present themselves as playing one way as a certain alignment and play a completely different way so they wish, making the answer to the question inconsistent on being able to 'understand and read them better.' However, if the person asking it is scum, then it simply gives them ammo to set up a mislynch (this person did x as scum in a previous game and they are doing it now, so they must be scum!).

 

[JTB]

Why did Ran's responses to Kevin stand out? Kevin basically just said "you're scum" and Ran responded with "no", there wasn't much for him to pick out compared to Poyzin who talks and explains a lot more.

I've explained this previously

 

[Rockin]

Updated can go pool:

3. JeXs
6. #HBC | Nabe
13. Maven89
16. JTB


Kary and gorf are putting in enough effort and havent really set off any alarm bells for me so they left the pool. JTB just comes off scummier to me every post. Jexs can still go imo, narrowly behind JTB for top scumpick. Mavens slot is obviously a big fat question mark/liability which is lame. Nabe I don't really have a good reason to want gone but I'm essentially trying to signal that I'd be willing to pressure the slot

any reason why you don't want gone, seeing as how he posted just as little as Maven?

 

[JTB]

Ok I'm not wasting anymore time. Let the record state you said the same **** as scum though, Marshy.

Ryker, I don't even care to explain right now. If my reads are ****, no need for me to spend night and day on this game.

I sincerely hope you guys lynch scum today, maybe it is actually Maven. No idea why Nabe has yet to post. I wouldn't mind if he were lynched either.

Unvote; Vote: Maven
Replace out

Adios, I am going to play Splatoon 2 and Smash bros instead.

 

[JTB]

vote jtb

strongly believe this flips scum

- hasnt done anything to really scumhunt. pull up his posts, ask yourself if jtb is doing anything to progress the town or make reads

- his comment about me not doing anything but buddying ryker is disingenuous. shows hes not actually analyzing my slot and instead looking to simplify what ive done for the sake of spinning it as scummy

- i do NOT for a second buy that he reads rans case, thinks 'this is solid' and votes me as if thats the best thing he can come up with right now. scummy hopping of the wagon

- strongly disliked his posts a few pages ago where he was shading ran and asking him what he gets out of vigging maven or whatever inactive. feels like hes going thru the motions and thats just a weird way to use ones time

If I wasn't posting my scum reads, then this post would have never occured.

I never said you weren't doing anything outside of buddying Ryker but I have no idea what your reads are OUTSIDE of a strong town Ryker read.

From Ran's vote, I saw an opportunity to put pressure on a slot that I'm wary of and didn't think would happen D1, so I took it. Is that not scumhunting?

Ran literally asked me to shoot Maven right before that question lmao, why would I not follow up on that?

 

[JTB]

#HBC | Ryker do you know how much of a pain it is to tag any of the HBC people? And how close to the deadline would you say scum start floundering to jump onto a wagon?

 

[JeXs]

Because meta is something I always disagree with and when asked, a player can easily present themselves as playing one way as a certain alignment and play a completely different way so they wish, making the answer to the question inconsistent on being able to 'understand and read them better.' However, if the person asking it is scum, then it simply gives them ammo to set up a mislynch (this person did x as scum in a previous game and they are doing it now, so they must be scum!).

I disagree actually. I think it provides some insight into a player and how they are as a person, which also helps in forming reads.

I've explained this previously

I am specifically asking about that post, actually. There was not really anything for Ran to respond to Kevin. How were you expecting Ran to respond to "you're scum"?

 

[KevinM]

Usually they just admit they’re scum, give me the name of their scummates and go to the next set up

 

[JTB]

I disagree actually. I think it provides some insight into a player and how they are as a person, which also helps in forming reads.


I am specifically asking about that post, actually. There was not really anything for Ran to respond to Kevin. How were you expecting Ran to respond to "you're scum"?

We'll agree to disagree on the first point, mafia is a game of deceit and asking players questions that allow them to set the foundation for that makes me very wary.

Regarding his exchange with Kevin, it wasn't so much the responses themselves but how he responded. He was going deep with questioning on Uto (a new player) but when addressed by Kevin (a veteran player) , the answers were short and terse. The change in tone is what caught my eye as my first thought was he was nervous about addressing Kevin anymore than he did.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

somehow this was dropped from my #779, JTB can you respond to:

Not always scummy, depends on the context. If anything, it prompts me to look deeper into the player slot.

this tells me nothing, what was the context in Ranmaru's case that made you lean scum on him?

 

[#HBC | Mac]

Regarding his exchange with Kevin, it wasn't so much the responses themselves but how he responded. He was going deep with questioning on Uto (a new player) but when addressed by Kevin (a veteran player) , the answers were short and terse. The change in tone is what caught my eye as my first thought was he was nervous about addressing Kevin anymore than he did.

Man i feel like i've heard this talking point from far too many slots, I wonder who was the first

also really curious to hear tom's thoughts on the current wagons

 

[Maven89]

Ok I'm not wasting anymore time. Let the record state you said the same **** as scum though, Marshy.

Ryker, I don't even care to explain right now. If my reads are ****, no need for me to spend night and day on this game.

I sincerely hope you guys lynch scum today, maybe it is actually Maven. No idea why Nabe has yet to post. I wouldn't mind if he were lynched either.

Unvote; Vote: Maven
Replace out

Adios, I am going to play Splatoon 2 and Smash bros instead.

Before you replace out

We’re going to need your balls

 

[JTB]

somehow this was dropped from my #779, JTB can you respond to:


this tells me nothing, what was the context in Ranmaru's case that made you lean scum on him?

The context was other things he was doing in the game, aka the interaction w/ Kevin that stood out to me. Hence why I had null on Jexs for doing the same thing.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Ok you can disregard my #756 I found the answer




I just think it's strange that you decided to share a read without any prompting. Particularly when that read is a null that you says needs development.
My normal thought process when I have a null read is 'what can I ask this person to improve my read on them' not 'better tell everyone I have a null read'.

I guess that's a fair call. I should keep my hand to myself in terms of reads. I posted it coming right after a mega response post from Ran after people were looking into him, and i was just throwing my opinion into the ring. I had been doing some mulling on my own and didn't want my thinking to be discounted, regardless of whether it was too insightful or not at the time.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Vote JTB
I don't see a huge difference between Ran and JeXs whereas clearly you do. I also don't really enjoy how you used the interactions Ran had with Kevin and I as evidence.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

How were you expecting Ran to respond to "you're scum"?

JTB humor me with an answer here? What should town!Ran have said to Kevin?

 

[JTB]

holy moly ive already said this multiple times, literally just read my 824

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

holy moly ive already said this multiple times, literally just read my 824

My b, you are right. Sorry about the needless question

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

holy moly ive already said this multiple times, literally just read my 824

My b, you are right. Sorry about the needless question

 

[JTB]

Before you replace out

We’re going to need your balls

this is really uncalled for tbh

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

JTB humor me with an answer here? What should town!Ran have said to Kevin?

holy moly ive already said this multiple times, literally just read my 824

Phoenix Wright: HOLD IT

You actually didn't answer the question. You just said that you noticed that the answers became short and terse; I say that is meaningless in this instance, because it's a yes or no question "are you scum". Obviously we would all answer "no" to that question, unless you would like to make the word really long with filler between the letters.


Also sorry about the double-of-the-same post, not sure how that happened.

 

[JeXs]

Phoenix Wright: HOLD IT

You actually didn't answer the question. You just said that you noticed that the answers became short and terse; I say that is meaningless in this instance, because it's a yes or no question "are you scum". Obviously we would all answer "no" to that question, unless you would like to make the word really long with filler between the letters.


Also sorry about the double-of-the-same post, not sure how that happened.

This is exactly the issue I'm having with JTB right now. What did he expect from Ran other than a simple "no"? Was the tone change because Ran just said "nah"? Because that's exactly how I would expect pretty much anyone to respond to "you're scum"

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

This is exactly the issue I'm having with JTB right now. What did he expect from Ran other than a simple "no"? Was the tone change because Ran just said "nah"? Because that's exactly how I would expect pretty much anyone to respond to "you're scum"

I'm glad you called that, because you're right on the money with this one. If Ran said anything more, it would've looked bad on his end. I feel a bit better about ran's spot now.

 

[JTB]

And I fail how to see my perception of this is an issue

1) Ran goes hard on asking Uto questions to help develop his read
2) Kevin interjects and Ran completely changes the way he posts

If you don't want to see this as an issue, then don't. I saw something that I felt was off (possibly being nervous about responding to Kevin) and used it as a means to push Ran at the time.

I would be more curious in hearing why the two of you are bringing up your concern with this now instead of 2 days ago when I first started pushing Ran.

 

[giraffelasergun]

Vote Count: 5:56 pm CST 6/13 Edition

Rockin (2): KevinM, Tom, ,
Marshy (2): Maven89, JTB
Pythag (2): Kary, Doop
Ranmaru (1): Pythag
Maven (1): Ranmaru
Dooplissity (2): Ryker, Gorf,
JeXs (1): Rockin
JTB (5): Marshy, JeXs, Mac, FrozenFlame, UtopianPoyzin,
No Lynch (0):

Not Voting (1): Nabe,

Deadline June 17th 7:00pm CST. Takes 9/17 to lynch.

The mods are in the process of finding replacements for maven and ran.