DGames Summer Mafia Bash - Day 2 Begins. Deadline Day 2 begins - Deadline 8:00 A.M. CST Monday 6/24

[Tom]

Btw this claim was hella obv from what UP asked Ryker start of Day 2 and it totally influenced my opinion of him in my reread

 

[#HBC | Mac]

#HBC | Gorf , while we wait for Ryker to pop back into thread

do you have any quick thoughts on my #1584

 

[Tom]

I have a setup theory question to ask before this Day ends. If we are comfy with that let me know.

 

[ranmaru]

Hey I am awake now. Interested in seeing Ryker's response. If he is scum, seriously reconsider Kary. That's all I am saying.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

ive been on for a while tn and basically just rereading early game stuff and this **** is taking forever so ill just reconvene tomorrow. kinda annoying tho cuz i feel like i dont currently have a strong mental model for the game, there's so many fresh cases on people (gorf/ryker on ff - which im really interested in, gorf on lore, ran on ryker, a bunch of ppl on jexs, kary on UP) that i've only skimmed and not really considered at all

fwiw you can effectively skip ran on ryker and kary on poyzin (obv). not worth considering

and **** it imma just come out and say that Tom's been on my radar for a while for a couple reasons

• that ran wagon looks even more disgusting on reread and Tom seemed to be a proponent of it
• didn't make sense that someone like Tom would legitimately scumspect Ran for the reasons presented in thread at the time
• tom kept claiming early on that he's waiting to hear how ppl feel about RanvTom, which to me signals that there's specific stuff he's looking to get out of it. but then for the rest of the Day he doesn't bring it back up, he doesn't talk about any findings or question any slots or do anything that shows that he was being truthful. its still unclear what he was looking to get out of it
• tom disappeared when town started calling him townie and referring to ran as TvS and i'm scared that he's just coasting on that goodwill.
  • then unfortunately never got a chance to elaborate on some of the stuff from his catch up posts because the Day happened to end too soon
• and as a bonus the flips (esp marshy's) don't work in his favor

i get your apprehension on the ran wagon, and tbh its weird thinking that tom wasnt pushing ran at least a bit, and if he wasnt, why he didnt try making any branching paths from it. but i can see him setting it up and getting next to nothing from it from the way it transpired. but that all comes from whether or not i buy him scumreading ran at the time. and idk if i honestly do. thinking back on it, he seemed like he was nudging into it predicated on kevins early scum!ran stance. and maybe his language was ambiguous (which wouldve been the point), but i would think hed clarify that he just didnt get anything from it. idk. its worth thinking of though

generally agree that marshys flip doesnt work in his favor. but imo marshy was a pretty solid nk choice from almost anyone so *shrug*

i finally got a couple answers from Tom about the above, and tbh for the most part they check out to me, but i dont put it past tom to come up with solid response.

but my overall sense of that slot is there's been a lack of anything that resembles genuine scumhunting initiative. i'm not able to connect his actions with the sense that he's actively tryna find scum this is also despite going through his reads list and player summary post, it definitely seems like the kinda thing scumTom could just draft up to appear townie and get ppl off his back

i actually think the summary post/what hes done so far toDay actually redeems the earlier game question mark i had for him. his thought processes are clear and his scumreads are well documented. on that front im more curious to see how his play fares out toDay.

ryker / gorf / others does any of the above bother you at all? what am i missing, how are you guys so thouroughly townreading him?

cant say im thoroughly townreading him, but for the short term, hes just kinda low priority. there are other players that i feel like have more going for their case, and in general players like you, tom, ryker, mac and kevin are on my "dont sweat reading until you get a serious ping one way or another" list. and ive gotten no serious pings for the rest of you that are alive.

agreed with you feeling generally better about pythag tho. the doop flip really helps him and his output so far toDay has been solid

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

he obv is all about it with flashcards and ****. It's fun to be a PR and catch somebody and claim too early and then lose

this is an underrated gem

 

[ranmaru]

Gorf, and everyone else, tell me what you think of Kary from my #1512.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

rationalize karys doop bus

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Gorf, and everyone else, tell me what you think of Kary from my #1512.

Still null. The presence of good questions is always a net positive for any player, but the posts presented cannot confirm this statement. There is no way of knowing whether Kary's intentions were AGF or no, so therefore I cannot develop a read in either direction for Kary. This quote cannot be properly backed imo:

Kary is scum who asks good questions but doesn't have the intention to actually follow up his case.

And this quote does not qualify as evidence for the aforemention.

I think the 'daft townie or trying to deflect' post was mostly fud, to defend Maven and he asked if I thought about Nabe instead.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

i think youre being extremely selective in what you use to justify your kary scumread. like hes got content pushing marshy and pushing doop. are we just ignoring that when we say he "asks good questions but doesn't have the intention to actually follow up his case?" i think you also hold too much value to the idea of people not doing things the way you approve = scum. hes not pushing ryker on your terms. he cant just wait to evaluate it and change his mind on his read. hes gotta do it on your terms

 

[ranmaru]

Gorf, I am looking at the post and I really can't rationalize it. Due to the early doop push, you might be right. Yet, if Ryker is scum, I still feel Kary should be looked into. But right now, I am also having concerns with Rockin and Pythag especially.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

k

 

[ranmaru]

Lore seems like that would involve reading your posts.

Now this, I feel was unnecessary from Kary if they were trying to patch things up from last game. Just felt like Kary did this to intentionally rile up Lore.

 

[Rockin]

Gorf, I am looking at the post and I really can't rationalize it. Due to the early doop push, you might be right. Yet, if Ryker is scum, I still feel Kary should be looked into. But right now, I am also having concerns with Rockin and Pythag especially.

I'm right here, you know.

 

[ranmaru]

Rockin you mention you don't like me this day phase but you never say why, it reminds me of Day 1 where you said my response to Tom was shoddy without breaking it down, and when you called my posts flustered when I was not.

 

[Pythag]

Rockin you mention you don't like me this day phase but you never say why, it reminds me of Day 1 where you said my response to Tom was shoddy without breaking it down, and when you called my posts flustered when I was not.

Not to discredit your question, but with regard to D1 osts can appear different than how you intend them. While you know you weren't flustered, that's not how Rockin read it. I don't know why that should be a sticking point.

 

[ranmaru]

If he said defensive I would not have a problem with that since I was literally stating I was defending. I certainly do not look flustered there.

 

[ranmaru]

Now that I got you both here, what are your thoughts of recent events?

 

[ranmaru]

#HBC | Mac Talk to me about Rockin and Pythag. I want to re-read them both. Especially Rockin, it feels like he is not caught up and mostly focuses on my posts in a reactive manner rather than being proactive.

 

[Spak]

On page 28 and I have about a thousand words worth of notes on reads so far. It's been a blast seeing some of the old guard playing again, but my goodness it's hard to read so much content in one sitting lol. I'm losing concentration and everything's going in one ear and out the other at this point, so I'll probably just call it for the night and pick up tomorrow. I have a job from around 9-6 PM, then I'll be going to the gym and am making dinner for my apartment, so I'll probably be on around 8:00. Hopefully I'll be all caught up by the end of tomorrow night (given that you guys don't post another 40 pages of stuff ) and I'll actually be able to interact with people. Looking forward to playing with you guys again!

 

[ranmaru]

Alright man. I want you to make sure you complete that catch up before you even consider interacting in thread while catching up. Looking forward to your thousand word post.

 

[Pythag]

no it doesnt. if i were to grossly summarize that point, lore is faking scumhunting by focusing lightly on one player and allowing that to develop into what looks like a push and a scumread, without actually making efforts to contribute to just about anything outside of that. instead of rereading the thread and coming into the thread with a wholly broad take on most of what has gone on, he commented on 1) the speed of the jtb wagons start (which he quickly relinquished) and 2) poyzin stuff. and that read developed in real time, hardly based on the actions prior to his entrance. he is not scumhunting. some latch onto a read and tunnel, some spout ad hominems (which lore was doing to poyzin), some just throw out questions that dont do anything for them. but all those things are meant to distract from a lack of motivation to scumhunt. which lore has none of. i dont know how firmly id even call this a tunnel. a tunnel implies that you stared broadly and narrowed in and went too deep. werekill basically started here and has made near zero effort to look elsewhere or explore other reads in thread.

that being said plenty of things involved with the nature of lores stance on poyzin are mad grimy too

hmmmm. I need to think more on this. Thanks for this.

re calling widom on maven and doop buddying that early: that wasnt buddying really, it was making an incredibly safe defense against mavens wagon. plus, i put way more weight on how lore was soft defending doop throughout his time alive than i do doops on maven.

I wasn't referring to doop defending maven, I was talking the 'buddying' as being Maven and Doop with arguments against Marshy.

pretty rude of you to challenge people to an impossible task

Sorry, I'll work on my tact.

If he said defensive I would not have a problem with that since I was literally stating I was defending. I certainly do not look flustered there.

I still don't think that's your call to make for other people. Literally we aren't in control of how other see us.

Re: Current happenings, I'm going to withhold comment rn, I think everyone is waiting for Ryker to respond

 

[ranmaru]

Rockin Why have you never responded to my #442.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

I wasn't referring to doop defending maven, I was talking the 'buddying' as being Maven and Doop with arguments against Marshy.

and in my lore analysis i even said

doop justifies marshy vote by citing maven's post and diving into it to elaborate. then goes on to try to get others' opinion to stir it up. dont think this is hecka incriminating to maven slot but the connection certainly exists coming from scum!doop

that aspect of the connection i dont hold to much value. i just said it exists. the real meat of the connection comes partly doops very simple soft defense of maven when it was easy, but mostly in lores pushback against the doop wagon off the basis of "agreeing with how they read marshys post," and making zero effort to develop a read on him in spite of acknowledging early in his (lores) play that the doop wagon has "decent points" and he might look "weird." to me, the connection is really made in order of priority: lore -> doop, doops wagon -> mavens wagons, doop -> doop -> early ass maven thing

 

[ranmaru]

I don't quite understand this, mainly because I forgot who Rajam is (you mentioned him before). Can you give me a bit more info on him and his playstyle? (just so I can understand why I'm null a bit better)

Rajam took forever to catch up and he would be stuck in the past it was always funny but he eventually reached an end point and had strong conclusions, his end game was much stronger. You have a similar approach but instead you don't have strong conclusions to go with that.

 

[Rockin]

Rockin Why have you never responded to my #442.

I felt it wasn't that important to really respond to it, since the issue I had with the response to Tom seemed more emotional rather than any sort of weight to it from a scum hunting prospective. There was no need to make a break down for why I had an issue with it. I just came respect that you had issues with Tom's statement and was sensitive about it. At the time, I also wanted to focus on other things that were going on in the game. You didn't seem that bothered by it since it away un-noticed for quite some time.

Right now, I'm just waiting here to see what Ryker got to say in regards of all of this.

Spak - NP spak!

 

[ranmaru]

I find it interesting you continue your same opinion of me in #462 but you never cared to address what I have said. It just feels like you weren't truly trying to understand my slot. I don't see how you would think it's not important to respond to if you continue stating the same opinion, that I took it some way after.

 

[ranmaru]

Spoiler

#944

Based on the post, it sounds like he got gut instincts of wanting JTB dead, and less of not having a legit reason of wanting him dead.. It sounded like he was bothered by some words JTB said. I have to look back at the JTB posts, as nothing immediately jumped out to me on my first read through.

and yeah Ryker, sadly it doesn't seem like I can convince enough people in time for a Jex lynch.

Vote: Dooplissity

#947

Oh, taking another look at the JTB posts, I can see why others would be bothered by him. He did get eager when he saw someone voting for Marshy, and thus 'a bandwagon' was formed (he did switch from me to him so quickly lol). so Ryker, I feel that FF's gut is very justified.

Oh I noticed there isn't much of a wagon on doop anymore. I'd be willing to vote for him, but I rather wait for an updated vote tally by the mods so I don't accidenly hammer (so soon I mean). I know you told me to 'vote on something that's' relevant, but I'm currently not feeling a lynch on Pythag, and I don't want to wagon marshy either.

I also know I also asked you to convince me of stuff as far as wagons, but you're dealing with IRL ****, so I ain't gonna stress you about it.

#716

I remember seeing your 'advertisement' of wanting a bangwagon. If you can convince me to one, I'd appriciate it, as nothing really interest me atm. If you want to sell me on a doop wagon, I'm somewhat interested, but I need a reason. Doop's been saying some poor stuff, but logistically I don't see anything scummy about his post, and gut wise, nothing's ringing. For the time being tho, my vote is going to go over here

Vote: JeXs

I'm sorry that you feel that way. This week I was working 3 days as opposed to the usual two, and the work time is in the evening shift. For the rest of the week however, i'm off so I have free time and can be around whenever.

Vote: JTB

why are you flopping from doop, who you voted just last night?t

#1153

Ryker was telling me to pick a 'relevant wagon.' At the time before that post, my vote was on Jex. Seeing as how it'd be difficult to get a wagon going for Jex, I turned my attention to Doop, who had 2 people based on the last vote count. I didn't initially wanted to jump in on the JTB wagon, cause nothing in particular stuck out to me on the first read on JTB's post, but with deadline being 3 days away, I rather have something than a no lynch. Upon my vote to Doop, I noticed no one was voting for him, so I begrudgingly went on the JTB wagon.

Upon rereading JTB's post, I can somewhat understand why people may want him to go. It's just one of those moments where I prefer someone else on the chopping block.

Also Rockin I want to know where this Doop vote came from, please.

#1221

Initially when I read up on Doop, there was post I found somewhat suspicious, but I wasn't sure if it's because I disliked how it was worded or if there's scummy intent behind it. Either way, it wasn't enough reason to vote at the time, but I said to Ryker that I'd be willing to wagon Doop, but only if he could point out legit reasoning on why he was scummy. I didn't get my answer. With him having IRL issue with his family, and my Jex vote not going anywhere, I moved my vote to somewhere else

#1280

So Gorf (and Ryker) you guys wanted to know of my reads, so here they are


[townlean]

Gorf

[Null to slightly town]

Macman
Ryker
Marshy
Tom
Ranmaru

[Null]

KevinM
Kary
Pythag
Frozenflame
UP
Lore


[Scum Lean]

Jex
Doop

So the people in the 'Null to slightly town' have shown some townie actions and statements, but i'm not confident enough to put them in town leans cause I'm currently having a hard time reading them. Ranmaru I can read a bit better, but i'm not confident enough to call it a townlean due to the gut mostly thinking he's town.

All those there in the null are a bit too big for my liking, and would like to know more about them as far as what they're thinking.

#1315

Is nabe going to be replaced as well?

Hey Rockin .

I see you there. Talk to me about FF's read on JTB. I just posted the whole progression. Tell me what you make of it.

Rockin, you honestly feel a lot to me like Rajam used to. Stuck in a time capsule.

When are you gonna be around at a point where I can play alongside you?

Rockin votes Doop in his #944 after Ryker prompts him to speak in #905. He then switches to JTB after Ryker speaks to him again in #949. He does mention that he can understand why others are bothered by him but he simplies it to him being eager for marshy. Gorf and Kary both question him in #1116 and #1192. Rockin replies that Ryker wanted him on a relevant wagon, and that is why he switched in his #1153 and #1221 (and mentioned as such in #716 and #947)

Here's the problem. Doop has four votes. Kary, Gorf, me, and Marshy. In Rockin's #1315, he asks if Nabe is going to be replaced. This is after the wagon that has sparked on Doop. In his #1280, he has Jex and Doop as scumleans. Yet he's still voting JTB, and doesn't switch to Doop, his scumlean.

Rockin is scum, who preferred to stay off the wagon, rather then bus. This is in addition to Rockin neglecting to respond to my #442, and continuing his same opinion of me in his #462 . It also doesn't make sense that he doesn't respond, considers it not important (#1626), but still says the same thing anyway. He doesn't care to determine my alignment or consider my explanation, he only cares to point out 'ugly' things about me. This comes up again in his #1527. He expresses dislike of my Day 2 play but doesn't point out why, he's content with just stating it to spread fud. He's not being proactive either, as he's present in thread, and reacting to my post concerning him in his #1614. He's essentially a Rajam that never actually catches up, when Rajam actually does so with strong conclusions and reads. Rockin isn't trying to progress the game here.

 

[ranmaru]

Unvote; Vote: Rockin

 

[ranmaru]

Also the more I think about it the more I think Gorf and I are wrong on Lore.

 

[ranmaru]

Scum: Ryker, Rockin, Pythag. I am leaning towards UP having caught Ryker red handed and Ryker just stalling right now. I'm fine with him being the lynch today if his actions don't line up. If Ryker is scum, then Rockin is certainly scum.

 

[ranmaru]

With Pythag, people are semi-clearing him because of his early interactions with Doop, saying that it would have to be planned. I do think it was planned, because it's beneficial to scum if one or the other is lynched, the other would be considered semi-cleared. This chance is higher if Ryker is scum with them. Don't discount Pythag from that and look at his play individually. I can explain more of this, and Gorf will berate me for it, but yes meta is involved here (Ryker wise) but we would likely lose the game without it.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I cant stop f5ing this page.

Oh gosh that was a long day. Can finally get to stuff, hopefully some of you still remember my question I had to Ryker.

Hey #HBC | Ryker , how's it going? (I'll respond to anything else concerning me). You were my secret read that I hinted at here:



I'm tracker. I tracked you last night. I have the result, however it would be perfectly easy for you to match your result to mine, so I just took a picture of this response in the textbox, as well as my result that I received. If you have an alibi, then I would have no reason to think that you are scum. I will elaborate on my read on you as well as post my result in the next post that I make. If there are inconsistencies with who you say your target is and mine, I will reveal them.

Hey look #HBC | Red Ryu , I didn't claim compcop d1 this time! Aren't you proud of meeee? I claimed D2 instead!

This is probably a terrible move to make this early based off of an early read, but dammit I'm going to get the information I want.

My "target" is that my ass stayed at home. This is an awful claim if you're town, and if you're scum, thanks for the contribution, I guess?

 

[Rockin]

I felt it wasn't that important to really respond to it, since the issue I had with the response to Tom seemed more emotional rather than any sort of weight to it from a scum hunting prospective. There was no need to make a break down for why I had an issue with it. I just came respect that you had issues with Tom's statement and was sensitive about it. At the time, I also wanted to focus on other things that were going on in the game. You didn't seem that bothered by it since it away un-noticed for quite some time.

Right now, I'm just waiting here to see what Ryker got to say in regards of all of this.

Spak - NP spak!

Oh and to clarify, when I mean 'see what Ryker got to say in regards of all of this,' I'm talking about the reveal with UP. Not this thing between me and Ranmaru.

 

[Rockin]

oh **** I've been ninja'd? LOL

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Okay, so set-up analysis time for counterclaim scenario.


Possible teams are

Tracker, Inno Child, Bodyguard vs NinJOAT, 1-shot Vig
Inno Child, JOAT vs NinJOAT, 1-shot vig
Inno Child, JOAT vs Jailer, 1-shot vig



The first is the world that UP is claiming we live in.

The last is a world we could be living in where scum know all the power roles.

Town JOAT should not CC him if we exist in one of those worlds and mafia is the one who took the second shot. Town JOAT should be shooting someone with their vig ability and when we have a third kill go off, we know that UP is lying.

Town Tracker should CC immediately if we live in that world. Bodyguard will give you another phase and we have nailed a second scumbag.



If no one CCs, we should go one more day to see if another player turns up dead, THEN lynch Poyzin.

Double check me.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Left alone all night to wait for UP.

C'est la vie

 

[Lore]

I'll be replying a bit slower today depending on what tickets come in (I work IT and mondays are slow here), but I'm here.

Okay, so set-up analysis time for counterclaim scenario.


Possible teams are

Tracker, Inno Child, Bodyguard vs NinJOAT, 1-shot Vig
Inno Child, JOAT vs NinJOAT, 1-shot vig
Inno Child, JOAT vs Jailer, 1-shot vig



The first is the world that UP is claiming we live in.

The last is a world we could be living in where scum know all the power roles.

Town JOAT should not CC him if we exist in one of those worlds and mafia is the one who took the second shot. Town JOAT should be shooting someone with their vig ability and when we have a third kill go off, we know that UP is lying.

Town Tracker should CC immediately if we live in that world. Bodyguard will give you another phase and we have nailed a second scumbag.



If no one CCs, we should go one more day to see if another player turns up dead, THEN lynch Poyzin.

Double check me.

FoS: Ryker

For your vig kill confirm theory, why are you not accounting for the fact that Scum might not have used their one shot Vig? Heck, doesn't the NinJOAT have a one shot too or am I misunderstanding the role?

 

[Lore]

you also asked about Lore's meta, which for respect of the person i do not want to linger on, but also for respect of the person i feel that i can adequately answer your question and lighten lore's view of what i said: sometimes when people get upset, you can use it as a meta tell that they are town. if lore gets visibly upset, i do not take it as a tell that he is town. that's what i mean. i absolutely did not mean "if lore gets upset, he isn't town." so i hope that is cleared up.

Ah, that makes much more sense. I was super confused at the original take lol.


Going back and replying to people who responded to me yesterday, but I want to Unvote as well. I hate using meta as reasoning, but Utopian gets very fervent when he gets power roles. His overreaction makes more sense in that context.

I truly believe that he's either tracker or jailer. Leaning tracker for now and would like to see flips/night actions on D3+ before that is confirmed. If we have a bodyguard (which we would if we have tracker), that bodyguard should protect Poyzin toNight. If we don't, that means we have a jailer and we should have a mass "I'm not the bodyguard" counterclaim toMorrow to prove Poyzin is jailer.

Best case, we have a Town power role in Poyzin that will be protected toNight. Worst case, Poyzin is a Scum power role and dies toMorrow.

 

[Lore]

Please let me know if I missed anything.

Lore, what's your read on Kary right now? (With reasoning)

Null leaning town. Kary's reaction at the end of D1 felt genuine. I doubt Scum would have been that miffed by a quick lynch (where there is less time to slip up and reveal themselves), and Kary seemed genuinely annoyed at the quick wagon along with Poyzin's reactions to it.

There is the possibility that Kary was setting up a mislynch on Poyzin, but for me it's like Doop in early game. I had a similar stance while reading Poyzin's content, and I am town. Therefore, it is possible in my eyes for town to be that fervent on Poyzin and isn't a scum tell imo.

if we go with that, the amount of time that you spent going in on poyzin shouldve been spent, like, reading the thread and getting an overall feel. instead, you found something on poyzin, kept up with poyzin and latched onto a small thing and continued to build stronger suspicion with the posts he was making in real time. without having put focus on reading the thread. because i can swear the only thing that was brought up about poyzin from before you joined the game was that page 11 blurb. even if it wasnt, you still decided to drive your read home in real time instead of reading the thread and getting better acquainted with the ecosystem of the game so far. you pursued a read, then decided to get a better feel for the thread. it doesnt change the fact that your pursuit of wagoning poyzin was a scummier choice than to read the game as a whole and have a better set of thoughts about the game as a whole BEFORE doing that. i see it as an opportunistic approach to scumhunting (latching onto a player for so little before getting a feel for the thread as a whole) especially considering how it unfolded with poyzin.

im curious about what posts im bringing up as "why is he bringing this up now," i really dont know what youre refering to.

This actually perfectly explains the "why is he bringing this up now" bit, thanks. It was the posts where you went in against me based on how you believe I should have read the whole thread first rather than spitting incomplete hot takes, and this post here explained it for me. I've got no issue with that take now.

All I can say here is that I agree. I tunneled, and I tunneled ****ing hard. I should have read the whole thread and taken things slow rather than diving in with an incomplete understanding. I'll try to do that better if I replace in to another game.



Unrelated to the above, but can NinJOAT track? It may ruin my theory from a post ago about how we should wait for toNight.