DGames Summer Mafia Bash - Day 2 Begins. Deadline Day 2 begins - Deadline 8:00 A.M. CST Monday 6/24

[#HBC | Gorf]

I am purposely being in the driver's seat this phase. That's because Marshy and KevinM are dead, and I want to oppose Ryker's direction, as I scum read him. I'm not sure who else would step up to do so, maybe Macman, but I'm not sure how often he'll be on. (Also he obv town reads Ryker >.<) That is better, Pythag. I'm not sure that's enough for Ryker, though. I remember you stating a 'like' of Ryker much earlier in D1, but that was a very surface level read. You still have a surface level read of Ryker.

yo all due respect but if you take the drivers seat town is gonna drive into a six foot ditch

 

[#HBC | Mac]

Tom so the green text is you explaining why other players might find him scummy?

 

[#HBC | Mac]

and you didn't find it weird that others were using your mistake correction to Ran as flimsy evidence that he was scum?

 

[Tom]

mac wake the **** up dude

i never once said that it was evidence that he was scum

please reread, better yet why dont you quote me and hopefully on the journey you find the friendship along the way

 

[Tom]

oh **** i misread you

one sec i need to eat a whole shoe or something

anyone have a pie?

 

[Tom]

i was on the lookout for people using it as evidence but i dont recall ever catching it. mostly what i ended up doing was evaluating how i felt about peoples TvS and TvT feels.

people definitely poked around about it. marshy asked pythag why I was townier than Ran in #548

 

[#HBC | Mac]

one last question while you're on tonight

Mac how do you feel about Kary

no read on kary huh

what about JTB

do you find them similar

this is super early game ****, but do you remember why you asked me these?

also you said early on that you were interested in my and JTB's responses to the RanvTom. did you get what you were lookin for?

 

[Tom]

Tom so the green text is you explaining why other players might find him scummy?

specifically the green text was me trying to communicate to ran why i feel people thought he was anxious or nervous. i think its a pretty understandable characterization of his posts, but he said it wasn't true, and i felt i could explain

 

[Tom]

one last question while you're on tonight

Tom said:
Mac how do you feel about Kary

Tom said:
no read on kary huh
what about JTB
do you find them similar


this is super early game ****, but do you remember why you asked me these?

also you said early on that you were interested in my and JTB's responses to the RanvTom. did you get what you were lookin for?

Marshy offered for your opinions of doop, kary, and/or poyzin in #296. I felt that I was specifically having a hard time reading Kary - specifically their #276, #285 line of questioning Ryker’s town!read of marshy. (I also started the game reading marshy pretty townie, throughout the Day I would question it).

Kary was overtly skeptical of Ryker’s town!read of marshy. I think its fair to say that read is an ‘earned respect meta.’ I also had one of marshy and Ryker and wanted to dig more into this other party’s opinion of it.

Just before that, Kary and I had a back-and-forth about my town!read of marshy biting doop, in #242, #248, #252, #255, #275. This discussion fed my thoughts about Kary - how should I feel about this line of thought, and of my town!marshy read (and extrapolating further, my town!Ryker read)? How do I feel about Kary?

I saw marshy ask you about her - and others - and I saw i wanted to know your read.

You didn’t have one.

I asked about JTB because I started high on JTB and it faded.

I asked if they were similar, because you didn’t answer my first question, and I thought restrictions might breed creativity on your part.

Hopefully that let's you in a bit. You might need to keep pushing me while you have me.

 

[Tom]

My perspective on the Doop lynch:

I had my vote parked on Rockin the whole entire Day and it started to feel a little long for an RVS-vote-turned-nostalgic-wagon-ride. I was feeling kinda suspect of marshy, who was heavy on doop. I (1286) voiced such suspicions to Kevin, who disagreed (1289). Then the doop wagon hit: Gorf 1299, Ran 1300, marshy 1302. marshy even said to shoot me on scumflip, which broke my heart, but 1307 i corrected him, but felt better about him due to Kevin and so lightened up on the doop lynch. When disagreeing with Lore in 1307, I even found myself defending a doop lynch vs a nabe lynch. The two seemed like real possibilities. Doop /outed 1320 and voted himself 1322 - hella odd. Way odd. Against the grain of the game. I vote him 1326, didn’t even see UP vote 1325 but honestly didn’t care. L-2, game feels like its falling apart, we can get a lynch that has real papertrail value vs one like Nabe that doesn’t. I’m cool. Pythag votes him L-1 - is this a surprise to anyone? Pythag v Doop all day after being set up as opposing lynches mid-Day. JeXs hammers immediately. I laugh kind of in disbelief. I think its a toss up lynch and it goes scum and I grin wide. The next morning my heart breaks. Kevin has been taken from me. Also I was pretty wrong about marshy and he was just a little baby.

I agree with Gorf that its WIFOM AF to just look at the wagon and think “this is where the scum is.” (obv im on the wagon but still) 1 it was a scum lynch and you cannot convince me its better to pick from the people who lynched than it is to use other methods altogether 2 wagon hammer was weird as ****

 

[Tom]

on RanvTom responses: no, i dont really think i got what i was looking for. i feel that it did generate discussion and i did try to use it to evaluate rockin, jexs, pythag, FF.

unfortunately the three most salient things that came from it were - FF never responded on it, i never caught a rabbit in a trap, and you narrowed in on it as important with no rabbit

 

[Tom]

you also asked about Lore's meta, which for respect of the person i do not want to linger on, but also for respect of the person i feel that i can adequately answer your question and lighten lore's view of what i said: sometimes when people get upset, you can use it as a meta tell that they are town. if lore gets visibly upset, i do not take it as a tell that he is town. that's what i mean. i absolutely did not mean "if lore gets upset, he isn't town." so i hope that is cleared up.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Gorf's case reads like he's trying to build a giant case off of tunneling, and I'm really thinking tunneling is all that is proved.
the defenses for my opinion on this however, are built mainly on wifom:
(Mafia wouldn't buddy that early re:maven and doop)
(town and mafia are capable of tunneling, but I would expect mafia to seek to tunnel less, because it's suspicious)


Rockin' you liked some of FF's posts. which one(s) and why?

no it doesnt. if i were to grossly summarize that point, lore is faking scumhunting by focusing lightly on one player and allowing that to develop into what looks like a push and a scumread, without actually making efforts to contribute to just about anything outside of that. instead of rereading the thread and coming into the thread with a wholly broad take on most of what has gone on, he commented on 1) the speed of the jtb wagons start (which he quickly relinquished) and 2) poyzin stuff. and that read developed in real time, hardly based on the actions prior to his entrance. he is not scumhunting. some latch onto a read and tunnel, some spout ad hominems (which lore was doing to poyzin), some just throw out questions that dont do anything for them. but all those things are meant to distract from a lack of motivation to scumhunt. which lore has none of. i dont know how firmly id even call this a tunnel. a tunnel implies that you stared broadly and narrowed in and went too deep. werekill basically started here and has made near zero effort to look elsewhere or explore other reads in thread.

that being said plenty of things involved with the nature of lores stance on poyzin are mad grimy too

re calling widom on maven and doop buddying that early: that wasnt buddying really, it was making an incredibly safe defense against mavens wagon. plus, i put way more weight on how lore was soft defending doop throughout his time alive than i do doops on maven.

I currently challenge anyone to tell me FF's reasons for voting JTB.

I count 3 posts where JTB is just called "scummy" and that's it.

pretty rude of you to challenge people to an impossible task

 

[Tom]

dude i keep calling kary a "her" then a "him" then a "their"

i just want to say i don't know who you are and i love you and im sorry

 

[Tom]

so the rest of my read-list is just my lynch-pool and then #HBC | Nabe

JTB
Spak (JeXs)
Rockin
Lore
#HBC | Frozen

the only comments i have right now are going to be much shorter form. part of this is because im more confident with who i want to keep and then willing to lynch others. part of this is because i feel i need to ISO these folks and that's what i plan to do tomorrow, ISO and answer questions.

but i try some now.

JTB - marshy hated this guy. FF also hates this guy. I felt like I liked him very early and then not much longer. wish i could hear more about it from marshy. haven't heard much from FF
Spak (JeXs) - im really looking forward to this re-read. i was surprised JeXs replaced out. major ISO target for me.
Rockin - he did vote Doop 944. that makes me smile about him a bit. he changed it later but i think it means something to me. maybe he doesn't belong here. he's here for kevin.
Lore - Gorf could easily be on to something and I'd vote with Gorf on Lore. Hard to read this slot. Let me get back to you tomorrow
FF - on JTB lynch HARD. lynchpool narrowed to JeXs, Nabe, Maven, and JTB - pretty weak pool

NABE

 

[Tom]

my vote needs to be somewhere

vote: frozenflame

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

tom as a spiritual navigator i can say that marshy and kevin would be extremely pleased if you voted alongside me on lore. but honestly i love your lynch pool save possibly spak so if youre game to split jobs im game to let you take any of the others. keep doing you homie

 

[Tom]

thanks gorf think/hope you're town

a reason im not on the lore-wagon right-the-now is that i can characterize a lot of what you find wrong about lore to just be the way i believe lore plays. specifically your #1573 about tunneling (read: one target so far isn't one target total), loose ad hom, etc. but i am not at all discounting the fact that you're picking up on it, it could be scum, and i like you for the doop lynch and for the majority of day 1. so i guess im saying, i'll ISO just like the others on my list and i'll re-evaluate after a day of discussion

 

[Tom]

DEAD:
Doop - die monster you dont belong in this world

KevinM - cruel world you took him from me

#HBC | marshy -
Kary questions marshy’s town!Ryker.
774-780 he reads Ran as town.
782-796 seems JTB was marshy’s secret scumread. Pushed JTB could die, said Pythag could go over Doop.
854 didn’t townread Gorf for pushing Ran. JTB must die x 100.

 

[Tom]

did anyone else find it funny it was a "secret" scumread until it became a major motion picture JTB MUST DIE

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

thanks gorf think/hope you're town

a reason im not on the lore-wagon right-the-now is that i can characterize a lot of what you find wrong about lore to just be the way i believe lore plays. specifically your #1573 about tunneling (read: one target so far isn't one target total), loose ad hom, etc. but i am not at all discounting the fact that you're picking up on it, it could be scum, and i like you for the doop lynch and for the majority of day 1. so i guess im saying, i'll ISO just like the others on my list and i'll re-evaluate after a day of discussion

ill get back to you on that if you wind up feeling a certain way then

 

[Tom]

Tom is a double voter or is that a miscount?

night 0 i dreamed a dream
as i was walking along the beach with my bro
across the dark sky flashed the wagons of the day,
for each wagon, i noticed two votes
one belonging to me and one to my bro

after day 1 ended
i looked back at the votes
i noticed on the day 1 wagon,
that happened to lynch the scum,
there was only one vote

this really troubled me, so i chilled at our spot about it
"bro, you said we would vote together,
you'd vote with me all the way.
but i noticed when i lynched scum,
there was only one vote of ours.
i dont understand. why didn't you vote with me? are you scum?"

when day 2 began i realized my bro was always there with me
he was confirmed town 5000%
and now that hes dead he cant carry my ass thru lylo

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Oh gosh that was a long day. Can finally get to stuff, hopefully some of you still remember my question I had to Ryker.

Hey #HBC | Ryker , how's it going? (I'll respond to anything else concerning me). You were my secret read that I hinted at here:

Also, i have a scumread that i cant tell any of you about until tomorrow. Let's see how things turn out.

I'm tracker. I tracked you last night. I have the result, however it would be perfectly easy for you to match your result to mine, so I just took a picture of this response in the textbox, as well as my result that I received. If you have an alibi, then I would have no reason to think that you are scum. I will elaborate on my read on you as well as post my result in the next post that I make. If there are inconsistencies with who you say your target is and mine, I will reveal them.

Hey look #HBC | Red Ryu , I didn't claim compcop d1 this time! Aren't you proud of meeee? I claimed D2 instead!

This is probably a terrible move to make this early based off of an early read, but dammit I'm going to get the information I want.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

ive been on for a while tn and basically just rereading early game stuff and this **** is taking forever so ill just reconvene tomorrow. kinda annoying tho cuz i feel like i dont currently have a strong mental model for the game, there's so many fresh cases on people (gorf/ryker on ff - which im really interested in, gorf on lore, ran on ryker, a bunch of ppl on jexs, kary on UP) that i've only skimmed and not really considered at all

and **** it imma just come out and say that Tom's been on my radar for a while for a couple reasons

• that ran wagon looks even more disgusting on reread and Tom seemed to be a proponent of it
• didn't make sense that someone like Tom would legitimately scumspect Ran for the reasons presented in thread at the time
• tom kept claiming early on that he's waiting to hear how ppl feel about RanvTom, which to me signals that there's specific stuff he's looking to get out of it. but then for the rest of the Day he doesn't bring it back up, he doesn't talk about any findings or question any slots or do anything that shows that he was being truthful. its still unclear what he was looking to get out of it
• tom disappeared when town started calling him townie and referring to ran as TvS and i'm scared that he's just coasting on that goodwill.
  • then unfortunately never got a chance to elaborate on some of the stuff from his catch up posts because the Day happened to end too soon
• and as a bonus the flips (esp marshy's) don't work in his favor

i finally got a couple answers from Tom about the above, and tbh for the most part they check out to me, but i dont put it past tom to come up with solid response.

but my overall sense of that slot is there's been a lack of anything that resembles genuine scumhunting initiative. i'm not able to connect his actions with the sense that he's actively tryna find scum this is also despite going through his reads list and player summary post, it definitely seems like the kinda thing scumTom could just draft up to appear townie and get ppl off his back

ryker / gorf / others does any of the above bother you at all? what am i missing, how are you guys so thouroughly townreading him?
frozenflame thoughts on the above?
pythag thoughts on the above?

anyway all that being said, i do think Tom's earned enough "town cred" just off that one catchup post (seriously i loved that summary ****) to be ok for rn. also it seems like moving forward we're gonna get more from him (already some of the stuff im seeing im liking)... but we should def be wary moving forward



some other quick obversvations:

super early post by UP referring to doop:

This is an interesting, yet insightful, call. I like it.

upon rereading, im initially skeptical that a scumUP would respond so positively to doop early on. I kinda don't see any new scum player doing that unless he was told to. but then again new players can be unpredictable in their badness... there's also some other back and forth with doop that i find hard to believe a new player being comfortable doing with his scummate, even going as far as explicitly defending him in #403

but then (as stated in Tom's #1559), UP starts to switch to softly suspecting doop
#HBC | Kary , Tom what do you guys think of UPs change of heart here and progression into scumreadding doop?


i'm also feeling better and better about pythag just based off the plethora of antagonistic action between that slot and doops. seems like pythag / doop together in a scum team would require them to have planned very early on to bus one another... which is def possible but seems unlikely atm

 

[Tom]

Ah jeez

I dont totally comprehend some of the demand UP just made, re taking a picture?

But I'm pretty sure this is

Unvote

Vote Ryker

Pending Rykers response I do not currently imagine a world or setup where this changes but we'll see

 

[Tom]

Oh man and Mac with a huge ninja about me too

 

[#HBC | Mac]

Oh gosh that was a long day. Can finally get to stuff, hopefully some of you still remember my question I had to Ryker.

Hey #HBC | Ryker , how's it going? (I'll respond to anything else concerning me). You were my secret read that I hinted at here:



I'm tracker. I tracked you last night. I have the result, however it would be perfectly easy for you to match your result to mine, so I just took a picture of this response in the textbox, as well as my result that I received. If you have an alibi, then I would have no reason to think that you are scum. I will elaborate on my read on you as well as post my result in the next post that I make. If there are inconsistencies with who you say your target is and mine, I will reveal them.

Hey look #HBC | Red Ryu , I didn't claim compcop d1 this time! Aren't you proud of meeee? I claimed D2 instead!

This is probably a terrible move to make this early based off of an early read, but dammit I'm going to get the information I want.

lol oh ****, disregard my UP points from above

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

It's just a picture of the thread text box. I took a picture of it along with an index card with my result. This is just proof that I wasn't switching answers, and I haven't yet edited any posts, and don't plan to either.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

poyzin idk if youre tryna post a picture cuz i cant tell from your post but definitely dont for the sake of not running the risk of getting modkilled. like just dont.

but aside from that wooooooooooooooooooow what a bad play bro. you nailed it. im mean congrats now youre officially a universal townread but, like, damn thats a terrible play lmao. you and ran makin this game look like it was 6 v 11 from the start

 

[#HBC | Mac]

UP your post (and subsequent follow up) confuses the **** outta me

but i take it that you caught Ryker red handed?

 

[Tom]

UP do not post any pictures and/or refresh yourself on the rules so you dont get modkilled

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

re taking a picture?

poyzin idk if youre tryna post a picture cuz i cant tell from your post but definitely dont for the sake of not running the risk of getting modkilled. like just dont.

Fair, I won't post the picture. I have it though.

Vote: Ryker

 

[#HBC | Mac]

vote: ryker

 

[#HBC | Mac]

and man i was just thinking how my opinion of townRyker faded a bit after rereading how he interacted with the Ran in RanvTom

 

[Tom]

Do not end the day IMO pls wait for more discussion

 

[Tom]

Mac: I'm in bed on my phone now. I'll respond to you in detail tomorrow. I'm town AF

 

[#HBC | Mac]

of course

 

[#HBC | Mac]

of course

was in response to this:

Do not end the day IMO pls wait for more discussion

Tom happy to see your response but im more interested in what others have to say about it rn

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Do not end the day IMO pls wait for more discussion

agreed

also almost not worth pushing on until ryker responds or poyzin makes a claim (idk why he hasnt outright done it yet when hes already ****ing claimed tracker). all thatll really do is spread fud at this point

 

[Tom]

Let UP do his thing, he obv is all about it with flashcards and ****. It's fun to be a PR and catch somebody and claim too early and then lose Harry Potter Mafia for town and now I'm just crying again