DGames Summer Mafia Bash - Day 2 Begins. Deadline Day 2 begins - Deadline 8:00 A.M. CST Monday 6/24

[#HBC | Kary]

Because it's WIFOM. It's all WIFOM and I don't think it's very valuable WIFOM.

If it's just WIFOM then why did you bother to address it at all?

This is a good opportunity to question slots like Tom and Poyzin, but you seem content to just stick with the reads you already have.

Read Lore's posts. For better or worse, he took the Doop flip and immediately searched for the rationale that makes UP scum instead of trying to find out what Doop's interactions could mean for progressing his reads.

Yes but that's Hanlon's Razor.

I'm not against a Lore push. I think he's been posting mostly filler ever since he joined. He could do with some pressure, but I don't think he's the only direction we should be looking in.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Quick reply while I have signal, working in a metal building on a critical issue but waiting for a tech to arrive. Will respond to Gorf later, since it'd be longer.



Question on UP.

You did games with me way back in the day. You know how angry and defensive I got on things, how I tilted at the slightest opportunity.

Do you see similarities in UP's behavior and my own past behavior? I worry that I've been barking up a scum tree when it was actually just an angry newbie.


Same question to Kary, since you're voting on UP too. I'm having serious doubts man, and I don't know if it's legit or just personal anxiety.

I see new player uncertain how to react to almost every scenario presented to him. That's null though. What has me not wanting to lynch UP is that WHEN he moves around, he seems to be furthering his reads. As I said earlier, it's really hard for me to pursue someone for doing what I asked them to.

 

[ranmaru]

Damn, I need to sort Kary as well. I generally don't like humoring people chasing me, but I've put that slot off real badly.

I could always OMGUS and call it a day.

:thinking:

I took this as you saying you were side-stepping, unless I'm wrong and you meant something else by 'humoring'.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

If it's just WIFOM then why did you bother to address it at all?

This is a good opportunity to question slots like Tom and Poyzin, but you seem content to just stick with the reads you already have.

I believe I've used this as an opportunity to look at Lore for most of this phase.

I've also been talking about how if I had to pick one of the people on the wagon, it's Pythag.

I also believe that FF did not get due examination and is more likely to be fruitful. I believe as well that my read on you has also developed after a Doop scum flip.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I took this as you saying you were side-stepping, unless I'm wrong and you meant something else by 'humoring'.

I don't generally interact with people who are posting things about me instead of to me, especially early on. There's nothing to gain from it.

Right now, I see you getting into a tunnel. You're proposing a scum team and then tacking me onto it despite the fact I think a theoretical Ryker Scum makes no sense on that squad. I want to nip that in the bud, so you and I need to work this out.


Again, what is it I should have been doing this game?

 

[Rockin]

Rip Marshy and KevinM

I dislike this more as I talk about it.

Luckily, I dislike FF more.


WHY IS FF NOT ON ANYONE ELSE'S RADAR RIGHT NOW?

Nothing FF said really jumped out to me as scummy play and I do like some of his posts.

Before today, my scum reads were (besides doop) JTB and Spak. I have a bunch of nulls and towns as well, but you didn't ask.

#HBC | Ryker : Tell me exactly what your night actions were. Preferably sooner rather than later.

oy

=/

Here's the theory:

KevinM was killed because he was mostly wrong, not right. Especially on UP. I'm thinking scum are using that opportunity to push UP while Kevin was wrong on him. Not only do they get to push UP (who I still think is town), they get to kill KevinM, an aggro player.

Doop self voted because scum may have planned to stay off the wagon entirely. (If there was one scum, it would be Pythag) In the case this happened, I would think Kary, Lore, and Ryker would be the remaining scum.

#806 is a good post from Kary, but Kary doesn't follow up after Ryker side steps it. His #763 was also not a good response to my question. He asked Ryker why he was leaning so hard on Maven but didn't ask about Rockin who had less posts than Maven at the time, while Ryker had stated he'd use two bullets, one on Rockin and one on Maven: #245 Kary's first interaction with me in game is telling me how he doesn't understand how I got the Maven scum read: #773 He mentions that he thinks I'm either a daft townie or just trying to deflect attention off me since I got heat early game. Kary mentions Ryker is town as an answer to why he has not followed up on his case, but it doesn't answer for why he didn't do so Day 1. #1503 So all in all, I think Kary is scum who asks good questions but doesn't have the intention to actually follow up his case. I think the 'daft townie or trying to deflect' post was mostly fud, to defend Maven and he asked if I thought about Nabe instead.

I like Gorf's case on Lore. Lore recently has shown to be hard headed with his push on UP, and had forgotten to reply to (me, gorf, jex) before even considering his analysis on UP and everyone else. It just makes him asking us to weigh in as phoning it in. After I asked him to reply, he disagrees entirely with everything and continues to push. This would line up with my theory that scum are trying to benefit off of the KevinM kill by pushing UP. I found Maven's exit reasoning to be valid (and put him to null from it so I could read Lore), but I still feel Maven as scum, would take that long to post and he took a while to replace out as well.

This means that Jex might be town, but Jex should still be discussed further. But more so because I find these players to have a higher chance of being scum, rather then by his own play being townie (as I don't think it was). Luckily, Spak can contribute reads and we can read him from that.

Scum: Kary, Lore, [Ryker/Pythag]

So, I'm cool with voting Lore, and am fine to wagon Kary as well.

Unvote; Vote: Lore

Hmm, I disagree with this theory

KevinM's mainly talking about me and mostly been on my vote. He may have spoke bits of topics here and there, but none were as loud as wanting a lynch on me (joking or not). Therefore, you would have to point out specific posts he made that was 'mostly wrong.' Whoever was scared of KevinM was possibly afraid to bump into him late game (or maybe it was the safest kill target, which is mostly my guess).

The Doop self-vote was stupid, and I feel it was more of a personal decision. D1 early/mid game, I'd be a bit more sold onto it, but with there being an extra day and a half of deadline, I felt it was more like he cut his attachment to the Mafia game and just went out. A more careful mafia member would've been more careful about self voting.

Kary, Lore, and Ryker being the possible remaining scum? I'm not sold on it, currently. As said, Ryker helped pushed the game forward.

 

[Rockin]

I dunno about everyone else, but I'm not a fan of D2 Ranmaru thus far.

 

[ranmaru]

Ryker, I don't know what to tell you. I'm just hoping I'm wrong and it's just Pythag. I really just need to see more from you this phase, I can't be too harsh on you because of Doop's self hammer. What's your current read on Lore now that Gorf posted a case, and I said my piece on him too?

 

[Rockin]

and not just a 'i think he's super scummy' sort of way, just the general sense of how he's playing thus far lol

 

[ranmaru]

Rockin, have you read Gorf's case on Lore? I'm interested in your thoughts on that.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Ryker, I don't know what to tell you. I'm just hoping I'm wrong and it's just Pythag. I really just need to see more from you this phase, I can't be too harsh on you because of Doop's self hammer. What's your current read on Lore now that Gorf posted a case, and I said my piece on him too?

I'd be voting him now if FF had already been in the thread.

So, let's get this straight. You don't have enough from me, so you actively want to prevent me from driving so I don't get to do more?

What. Have. I. Done. Wrong.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

My commentary on not liking the way Lore has treated UP seems self-evident at this point. I think his analysis of Doop's actions in the thread is ridiculous. The only concern is whether or not he's town and just that lost in the sauce. I am not erring on that side though. The tipping point for me is the way he just absolutely kept Doop at arm's reach with that soft defense the entire phase and remained unattached to any other thread developments.

 

[ranmaru]

Fair enough. Not prevent you from driving, but have a counter to your pushes. (Since it's better to choose the option scum don't want, at least, that was the rationale for opposing your direction) I'll let you do your thing with FF for now so I can further develop my read on you. (Also I never said you should not post at all, I said we should both post less, but I'm still have trouble with it so I can't expect you to do so if I can't even do it)

 

[ranmaru]

Also I have already explained why I felt your play was reactive, and mostly pseudo content Day 1. I will say that your Frozen Flame direction is good, so I would like to see how that goes.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Also I have already explained why I felt your play was reactive, and mostly pseudo content Day 1. I will say that your Frozen Flame direction is good, so I would like to see how that goes.

Does that remain true from the point where I started trying to engage people about Pythag and Doop (despite being mostly unsuccessful)? Does that remain true through the JTB wagon and into the early day end?

Does that remain true of this day phase?

I'm NOT gonna play this game like a Three Stooges gag where I'm handcuffed to someone moving in the opposite direction.




I even TRIED to get a night together with you where I could go over several reads, but I got one and then you were gone.

Do NOT sit here and tell me you need more from me and not tell me what more you need.

 

[Pythag]

Gorf's case reads like he's trying to build a giant case off of tunneling, and I'm really thinking tunneling is all that is proved.
the defenses for my opinion on this however, are built mainly on wifom:
(Mafia wouldn't buddy that early re:maven and doop)
(town and mafia are capable of tunneling, but I would expect mafia to seek to tunnel less, because it's suspicious)


Rockin' you liked some of FF's posts. which one(s) and why?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Rockin' you liked some of FF's posts. which one(s) and why?

I like this question. I didn't want to like that post.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Okay, I have got to get out of here and do things today, but I will be back and we still need to talk, Ran.

 

[ranmaru]

Then I was gone? Please go more into that. The only time I had to be gone was when I was at my dad's appointment, and the splatoon 2 tournament.

The reason why I felt it was pseudo content was because you didn't really have much reasoning for it. Yes, you engaged players to get on those wagons, but you didn't try to convince them too hard on it. What can truly help me with you? Is a full reads list with *reasoning*. I'm always willing to talk reads and you only had time to do one read (on tom). You can do so after Frozen Flame replies to you and when you have time. There's nothing else I can do but wait and see how your do the rest of this phase and how Frozen replies.

 

[Rockin]

Rockin, have you read Gorf's case on Lore? I'm interested in your thoughts on that.

Yeah I have, and I felt Gorf's point on Lore was valid. I like it actually It does seem like Lore is reaching and putting unneccesary shade on UP. I still want to see how Lore handles D2 to get a better feel.

 

[ranmaru]

I'm going to nap for now. Sorry Mac I couldn't stop posting, I think I have said enough that there is enough to be said while I'm away.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Then I was gone? Please go more into that. The only time I had to be gone was when I was at my dad's appointment, and the splatoon 2 tournament.

The reason why I felt it was pseudo content was because you didn't really have much reasoning for it. Yes, you engaged players to get on those wagons, but you didn't try to convince them too hard on it. What can truly help me with you? Is a full reads list with *reasoning*. I'm always willing to talk reads and you only had time to do one read (on tom). You can do so after Frozen Flame replies to you and when you have time. There's nothing else I can do but wait and see how your do the rest of this phase and how Frozen replies.

Because you only asked for one. I said which one first. I did one and you appeared completely uninterested.

I can rattle off a full reads list right now. It's not hard. Some of them will be shallow, in fact, many will be because I've not been given much.

Town

Ran, I do not think you're enough of an ass to have an AtE outburst and then fake a replacement as scum. That is some Soup level bull**** and I think your character is far above that.

Gorf, is consistently looking to the same places I am for much the same reasons. Makes cases that are detailed and I like them. Probably my favorite player in the game right now.

Town Lean:

Kary was the first person on that Doop wagon. While Kary has been mostly doing things with little regard for what's in the thread, you can see the process of trying to get a read progressed. I especially liked watching the process on that Marshy read. None of this is an endorsement for Kary's reads which include some things I greatly disagree with.

Mac is someone it's hard to hate. He considers new information when it's brought up and is trying to do things with it. He's pursuing what he thinks needs pursuing. He isn't shying away from what's happening in thread. It's a good slot. Pretty much from the JTB wagon onward, I've like Mac's content when he's here.

Tom I still like. I liked Tom's posts before and the biggest thing that scares me is the irresponsible vote on the Doop wagon and the Marshy shot. Otherwise this slot would be in the above category.

UP? The guy DEFINITELY looks like a new player, but for a new player to go so hard on putting himself out there and involving himself with so much stuff? I can't imagine he's just that brave right now. Closest to my null pile, but still a good enough slot for me.

Null:

Nabe. Duh

Rockin is sitting on the lower end of the spectrum of nulls. Little content and most of it seems to be disagreeable. I don't really see him interacting with things meaningfully. I liken him to Rajam.

JTB I still need to see more from. His last day phase wasn't a show stopper and the day ended before he got involved again. He's the beneficiary of not working well with who I think could be scum right now.

JeXs is probably my favorite null? The slot had the hammer, which was foolish, but it did kill a scummer (much like my analysis of Tom), but I remember seeing the process from this slot midway through when I was interacting with it and UP. This is one of my reads that most needs a citation.

Scum Lean:

Pythag has been unimpressive and, imo, has the worst vote on the Doop wagon. I'm seeing more of the slot today, but for the most part he's been unimpressive and I can't say I'm the biggest fan of how much involvement he's had.

Scum:

FF and Lore have been talked about a lot today.




Ordered:

Ryker
Ran
Gorf
Mac
Kary
Tom
UP
JeXs
JTB
Nabe
Rockin
Pythag
Lore
FrozenFlame

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

That is from memory, longer than I should've spent here, and has a few that desperately need updating.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

That's not fair. I haven't talked a lot about FF today. I talked a lot about him yesterday and not much has changed with regard to him.

 

[ranmaru]

Alright thanks. I am just going to try to re-read you with this in mind. I am going to nap for now.

 

[Rockin]

Rockin' you liked some of FF's posts. which one(s) and why?

#813

In here, he shares the same thoughts I had with Jex, as well as the problem with the slot. They didn't do a lot of scum hunting D1 and was mostly asking questions in regards of the current topic, or their thoughts about players. I also agree their townie list was too safe, as most of the players were either 'moderate town' or 'mild town.

#814

Agreed that Gorf was putting in work. Semi unsure about Kary. Kary's been posting a lot and stated a few concerns they have, but I'm very unsure where their head is at in the game currently.

#880

Just like him, I never understood the Pythag wagon/dislike (I actually liked his post, excluding the mis-wording from him. If you want me to show the said posts I like from him as well, I will, but it's only like...2 posts). I thought Pythag was fine actually.

 

[Rockin]

Oh and regarding my issue with Jex

I am still interested in that slot being lynched, but I'm willing to wait to hear what Spak have to say, since Jex did replace out.

 

[giraffelasergun]

Vote Count 4:26 PM 6/17 Edition

Lore (2): Gorf, Ranmaru
Utopian (2): Kary, Lore
FrozenFlame (2): Ryker, Pythag
JTB(1): Mac

Not Voting(7): Tom, Spak, Nabe, UtopianPoyzin, FrozenFlame, Rockin, JTB

With 14 alive, it takes 8/14 for majority. Deadline is 6/17/18 at 8:00 A.M. CST

 

[Rockin]

Rockin is sitting on the lower end of the spectrum of nulls. Little content and most of it seems to be disagreeable. I don't really see him interacting with things meaningfully. I liken him to Rajam.

I don't quite understand this, mainly because I forgot who Rajam is (you mentioned him before). Can you give me a bit more info on him and his playstyle? (just so I can understand why I'm null a bit better)

 

[Pythag]

I currently challenge anyone to tell me FF's reasons for voting JTB.

I count 3 posts where JTB is just called "scummy" and that's it.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Vote Count 4:26 PM 6/17 Edition

Lore (2): Gorf, Ranmaru
Utopian (1): Lore
FrozenFlame (2): Ryker, Pythag
JTB(1): Mac

Not Voting(8): Tom, Spak, Nabe, Kary, UtopianPoyzin, FrozenFlame, Rockin, JTB

With 14 alive, it takes 8/14 for majority. Deadline is 6/17/18 at 8:00 A.M. CST

Vote: UtopianPoyzin

please fix

 

[giraffelasergun]

please fix

죄송합니다

 

[#HBC | Kary]

죄송합니다

사과를 받아들이고 싶지만 이제 제 이름을 두 번 썼어요

 

[Spak]

Hey guys! I just got back from work, so I'll be reading through the game. Tag me if you need me for any immediate stuff (although I still haven't read anything, so I'll probably be pretty useless at the moment lol).

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Due to this and Doop self voting, this seems coordinated. Now, I believe that scum had done this feeling they can benefit from this. I’m guessing scum voted at the very tail end, to make the early part of the wagon be more suspicious (besides the hammer, that’s obvious). This just goes along with a reactive style of play, which I think should have us keeping an eye on those who have been less proactive. Everything in between, I can’t judge too harshly since it comes after Doop self voted, and any townie that sees that might just vote. I’m not discounting that scum may fall within these, though.


Another reason why Jex (Now Spak) is scum and the play, is that JTB (his scumread) has mentioned that he was going to make more posts soon. If Jex truly believes JTB is scum, wouldn’t he want JTB to post more to truly understand his slot? It seems Jex hammered caring less about determining JTB’s alignment further but rather to flip Doop faster regardless of what discussion could come around JTB.


Finally, another person to consider is Ryker. Ryker was trying to get people in competing wagons of Doop vs Pythag, and he voted Doop. Yet here, he stays right off. He’s around, asking about deadline, and realizing when it was and going to nap. Kary is correct in stating (and I have said this before in some manner)

i feel like this wifom soap opera surrounding the bus conspiracy is really dumb and shouldnt be taken into nearly as much consideration as youve done here. scum coordinating like this is asinine. itd require doop to let them know he was gonna drop out, them to schedule a time to all/partly be online, and to bounce on the thread with the vote. its not impossible, but imo itd take way too many hurdles to jump through to base my outlook on this narrative rather than just assuming it wasnt coordinated/that the nature of the end play doesnt matter because he was basically confirmed scum by the self vote.

i mean wed need to hear from jex directly but its just as likely that jex realized that doop was confirmed scum and wanted to slap a vote on him because... he was basically confirmed scum with the self vote. waiting to hear from jtb from jexs pov literally didnt matter if that was the case cuz he was gonna live to see the next game anyway. this, again, is another wifom soap opera.

ill look into jex more eventually tho because i remember my interest being piqued from when you brought up your reads without meta yesterDay.

addressed the ryker thing before but to reiterate, its super not fair to consider rykers position on the circumstances scummy imo. he had like two nights of him anticipating to do something to have firmer stances by the end of D1. but that was cut short.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

#HBC | Mac I don't and didn't find Ran scummy. i confirm this in #400. i actually explained before that in #320. i elaborate in detail #467. i got a whiff of ranmaru's playstyle (maybe even for the first time? can't recall) and almost threw up. i was snarky about it and accidentally a whole PvP spotlight - even worse, i thought i was joking around with Kevin the whole time and he wasn't even there. i had previously nit-picked something incorrect he said in the thread - 'brownie points' - which people began to include in their Tom v Ranmaru opinions, and as they began to form, I was interested to see what people made of it. Ryker and Mac both expressed concern over Tom being thought as Town due to interacting with Ranmaru. On the subject of Tom v Ran, KevinM said he thought it was TvS which I hated to hear.

wait... so

your #318 and #320:

this is just a lot

kevin we could lynch ranmaru first

well i sure hope you were just indulging yourself when answering JTB's question about forming a read and that's why you wrote so much about nothing and its not

also #132 was garbage and your big empty post didn't change my mind

also i was totally talking to kevin and its rude of you to interrupt?

these posts seem to explicitly suggest that you find ran scummy... you're saying you were joking here?

your #400 and #467

it doesnt. should i post more or can i wait to see what others say about us

ranmaru, here's the longer form post re: your question "what about being verbose makes me scummy?" things i am adding now (not written last night at time of post #419) are limed



so #315 is the post that was a lot - as in it was a lot of nothing. that doesn't make you town or scum but it makes you onerous, and thats discussion too. so i poked you on it,

in #318 - in context of kevin's jokes (#135-136) about you being obvscum but unfortunately rockin has to die first - i speak openly to kevin about bandwagoning on you. kevin never responded and turned 3rd person on me though, and then also said he thinks you and i might not be Town vs Town. i also call your post a lot.

in #320 i clarify that its your #132 that i think was bad and the 'a lot' post is just empty "so much about nothing"

in #321-322 you've decided i've called you scum over being verbose - this isn't my opinion and i will elaborate re #322:

in #322 specifically you state that im not trying to get reads on you, that im just trying to lynch you. really, im using a discussion with you to get reads on everyone based on our interaction, and our discussion will be papertrail. It involves you, me, to an extent: JTB, KevinM, and anyone else who comments on it (doops at least now, hopefully more like rockin, marshy, etc. when they comment)

in #325 when you post your read on me - i never stated you were scum because you were wrong. also, this might be fundamental difference of opinion, but when you say "he just wants to lynch, and thats scummy," i disagree with you. the lynch is primary tool and i want to use it many ways in a single day, so yes, let's lynch, and let's throw around the lynch too. in the end, though, im not looking specifically for your lynch. i think your defensive responses to me makes you look nervous/anxious - primarily because i was not very aggressive, and also because some of the things you say i've done to paint you as scummy are not correct and probably dont read correct to others - from a perspective, i say your name and the word lynch and you respond calling me scum and start making mistakes.

#467 seems to clearly indicate that you find ranmaru scummy

just to make sure I understand your answer to my question - you're saying that initially, you purposefully pointed out stupid **** regarding ranmaru and suggested his lynch not because you think he was scummy but because you were A. joking, and/or more importantly B. trying to generate discussion and see if people would latch on to the bad arguments you presented for Ranmaru?

wouldn't the greentext in #467 suggest that even if you were initially joking that you found Ranmaru scummy because of his reaction to his wagon? (requoted below for context)

i think your defensive responses to me makes you look nervous/anxious - primarily because i was not very aggressive, and also because some of the things you say i've done to paint you as scummy are not correct and probably dont read correct to others - from a perspective, i say your name and the word lynch and you respond calling me scum and start making mistakes.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Next, Doop repeated "Pythag Pythag Pythag" extremely consistently, even when the wagon ran out of steam. If this was town, it'd be considered tunneling. But Doop is scum. This means that the Pythag push was either meant to misdirect towards a townie or earn townie points if Pythag flipped later; Doop wasn't the top lynch candidate for a lot of the day, and it's easy to assume that Doop hoped he would live.

did you ever consider the possibility that doop found something from a townie he can justify latching onto and ride it through because hey at least its content

 

[Tom]

hey im working on this game and writing a fair amount, i want to post what i have so far and also my response to mac, and then i'll keep working on the rest

 

[Tom]

TOWN:
Tom

Ranmaru - I inherited this from marshy and Ryker and it makes my life easier. I don’t agree with much of what Ranmaru says but I don’t sense bad intent either. | His scumdar of 1135 was Marshy, Ryker, FF, JeXs. | Don’t think he was ever on Doop.

#HBC | Gorf - I feel Gorf (655, 694, 707, 789, 849-850) benefits the most from Doop’s lynch (see Pythag for benefits most from Doop’s reread).

#HBC | Ryker - Ryker (628, 636, 639, 645, 706, 740) was suspicious of Doop early and often. I generally approve of Ryker and I think town benefits from keeping him alive. I have small fears where he’s scum but usually those fears are reserved for Mac. (They were marshy Day 1)


SAFE FOR NOW:
Pythag - Doop (633-634, 676, 702) against Pythag does not feel like SvS. I feel that Pythag benefits the most from re-reading Doop (see Gorf for Doop’s lynch) and have moved him into SAFE FOR NOW. He was anti-Doop (530, 778, 979, 987). And not just in comparison as Ryker’s proposed wagon options mid-Day, but actually opposed.

UtopianPoyzin - Good to lynch Doop (631, 659, 1098). I’m very cool with keeping UP around. I appreciate being able to read where he’s at and even when I disagree I’m good.

#HBC | Kary - Disliked Ryker and marshy. IIRC on Doop very early. Kary is hard for me to read but I believe has produced.

#HBC | Mac - Verbally liked Doop (779, 783). I don’t feel I learned a lot from Mac and I also don’t feel that I know much about him. He’s a player that I am worried is scum because he’s seriously good scum and you’re never confident when you vote him. But he’s Mac so I’m good with it Day 2.

 

[Tom]

#HBC | Mac #1156:

first, i pointed out a mistake he made.

(i also pointed out a mistake you made.)

that was totally separate from his #315 which was a huge post about nothing.

kevin made a joke that ran could go.

after #315 i joked to kevin that ran could go. im not about reading 500 words literally about drawing a read from nothing.

this generated a lot of blowback from ran immediately, and then became a focus of discussion.

obviously i didn't intend to do that. but it was there. so i might as well read what people say and try to make hay.

to address your most pertinent point, requoted by you: i specifically included that point (limed because i developed it after the rest of the post and wanted to be overt about it) because other players started to say that he looked nervous, and while i didnt imagine that he was nervous, i found his reaction to be super defensive and its what i believe the other players characterized as nervousness. (JeXs in #421 calls him "anxious and flustered;" Rockin #440 calls Ran "flustered," #462 rockin says ran took my comments "some kind of way").

so that limed paragraph is really an addendum of thoughts to what i felt was more important, and what i originally ended my post with: "in the end, though, im not looking specifically for your lynch." Then later, after Ran's almost-replacement and Ryker's #849-850, as well as marshy's salty "youre dumb town" response to Ran, I felt and feel pretty happy with keeping him around.