DGames Summer Mafia Bash - Day 2 Begins. Deadline Day 2 begins - Deadline 8:00 A.M. CST Monday 6/24

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Ranmaru

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Town: [Gorf > Macman > Kary > JTB > UP > Rockin]
Null: [Tom > Nabe > Lore]
Null-Scum: [Frozen Flame]
Scum: [Jex > Ryker > Pythag]

Vote: Spak
 

#HBC | Mac

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pour one out for the fallen homies

headed to work and wanna do at least a partial reread now that we have some flips

lmao at that doop hammer, will hopefully take a closer look at that wagon today along with pretty much all the other late day wagons

tom's huge post is like my favorite thing, it has no bearing on his alignment but i loved reading that ****
 

Ranmaru

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wait Ran, remind me why you're scumreading ryker?
I've been re-reading and I'm almost done, but the gist is, Ryker has had pseudo content (doop vs pythag vote calls), has been reactive, and also hasn't put his money where his mouth is at the very end of the day. You'll see me talk more about him in detail soon.
 

#HBC | Kary

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With Doop voting himself yesterday I feel like there was definitely some people bussing him. Basically, I feel like Doop voting himself had to be planned; there was no reason for him to just give up at the point that he did.

Dooplisity (9): Kary, gorf, Ranmaru, Marshy, Dooplisity, Utopian Poyzin, Tom, Pythag, JeXs
I'll admit that my main focus coming into today was going to be marshy. But with his flip I expect the scum to be on the back end of the waggon. Doop was dead in just over an hour of him voting himself. I think a lynch pool of the bolded is a good way to start today.
 

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Vote Count: 12:34 PM CST 6/15 Edition


Rockin (4): Tom, KevinM, Gorf, Ryker,

Marshy (1): JTB

Pythag (1): Doop,

JTB (6): Marshy, JeXs, Mac, FrozenFlame, UtopianPoyzin, Rockin

FrozenFlame (1): Ranmaru

Jexs (1): . Pythag

UtopianPoyzin (1): Lore

Dooplisity (1): Kary


No Lynch (0):

Not Voting (1): Nabe,


Gonna check on prods and a Jexs replacement.

Vote Count: 4:03 PM CST 6/15 Edition


Rockin (2): KevinM, Ryker,

Marshy (1): JTB

JTB (3): , Mac, FrozenFlame, Rockin

UtopianPoyzin (1): Lore

Dooplisity (9): Kary, gorf, Ranmaru, Marshy, Dooplisity, Utopian Poyzin, Tom, Pythag, JeXs


No Lynch (0):

Not Voting (1): Nabe,


A majority of 9/17 has been reached. Dooplissity, mafia goon, has been lynched It is now night time.


It is now night time, no more posting in thread. Night 1 ends at 8:00 AM cst 6/17/19 (40 hours from this post)
When is deadline, are replacements going to come before that if they're coming, and will it be accompanied by a deadline extension #HBC | Red Ryu #HBC | Red Ryu

Im blind. I just saw that deadline is in the title.


Good, I'm taking a nap then.
... Ninja'd. Did I just accidentally hammer?
Due to this and Doop self voting, this seems coordinated. Now, I believe that scum had done this feeling they can benefit from this. I’m guessing scum voted at the very tail end, to make the early part of the wagon be more suspicious (besides the hammer, that’s obvious). This just goes along with a reactive style of play, which I think should have us keeping an eye on those who have been less proactive. Everything in between, I can’t judge too harshly since it comes after Doop self voted, and any townie that sees that might just vote. I’m not discounting that scum may fall within these, though.


Another reason why Jex (Now Spak) is scum and the play, is that JTB (his scumread) has mentioned that he was going to make more posts soon. If Jex truly believes JTB is scum, wouldn’t he want JTB to post more to truly understand his slot? It seems Jex hammered caring less about determining JTB’s alignment further but rather to flip Doop faster regardless of what discussion could come around JTB.


Finally, another person to consider is Ryker. Ryker was trying to get people in competing wagons of Doop vs Pythag, and he voted Doop. Yet here, he stays right off. He’s around, asking about deadline, and realizing when it was and going to nap. Kary is correct in stating (and I have said this before in some manner)
 

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I forgot to actually finish that thought. Kary is correct in stating that Ryker is calling for votes without offering them (a case, or convincing them who is scum) who to vote for. I don't count Doop vs Pythag as offering who to vote for, as he didn't have any reasoning behind it.

What isn't Ryker doing?

Firstly, I feel like he lacks direction in who he is pursuing as scum. It is reasonable to have several people in your lynch pool on Day 1, but it feels a little disingenuous for Ryker to be pestering people into voting, without offering those people something to vote for. His push on Maven in particular irks me. My own opinion on Maven is that if he were scum, it would not be smart of him to say something controversial during RVS and then dip out completely.

A waggon on a slot that isn't posting doesn't achieve a great deal in my opinion, and so essentially I do not understand what the payoff is supposed to be from Ryker playing activity police.

Secondly, I don't feel like Ryker has asked anything particularly insightful or made any criticism that suggests to me he is trying to evaluate the behaviour of other players. To take an example, his asking Gorf about a Ranmaru read could, in a possible scenario, be a scum Ryker trying to evaluate the prospects of pushing a mislynch, and to my mind is a very general question that doesn't demand a great deal from Gorf's reply.
 

Ranmaru

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Re-read

Jex:


Hi Ran! I'll do my best to talk plenty and be as active as I can, though timezones and my low energy levels might hinder that a little. Do you think the latter is out of the ordinary for Gorf? It's still early game now after all. As for myself, I have a town lean on Gorf.

This is why I harp on the AtE and the excuse of real life. I agree that sometimes things can happen and we should trust our bros when **** happens in real life, because all in all, this is simply a game. Yet, here the only thing happening is sickness. That's fair, but it comes up more than once and he's trying to set an expectation that he won’t be posting too much due to that. I can understand if you post something to that effect pre-game, stating that you are busy due to work or something. I do that because last game Gorf was all like “yo ran why aren’t you here posting” and I’m like ‘you mofo i just got home from work and i’m catching up’.


I'm fine with them. I like Marshy, Ryker and FF. I'm also starting to see glimpses of town Ran.
I think Jex was a little bit too forward with the town reads on Marshy, Ryker, and FF. I think it’s likely because one of them might be his partner in crime. My pick is Ryker.

I am feeling pretty out of my depth tbh. Also, as I stated before I've been dealing with a lot of stuff irl and also fell sick recently. My energy levels are really low and haven't been able to keep up and think about the game as much as I used to be able to.
I think this is more of an excuse, at least the depth part. I think this is important to keep in mind behind the motive of his posting.

I'll get back to you later, I'll be doing a reread of the game. I promise! Can you let me know your thoughts on Rockin in the meantime?

Marshy and Ryker have been helpful and actively trying to progress the game. I like their active attempts to engage/push people. I wouldn't put it past them as scum, but I like them for now and have no issues with them. FF has felt pretty town to me, with his posts and thought process. and I can see him trying to solve the game.

I'm currently on page 9 and I don't agree with your Marshy read, Ran. Did you consider that he could merely be reading you wrongly? I concede that I wrongly remembered most of what he has done, in my memory he was actively engaging people and putting out new thoughts and discussions. Most of what he has done at that point was his interaction with Doop. It brings him down to mild town, I can still see him actively trying to read players. I find his reeling me into the game to be a slight town tell and I don't see him asking this to you as scum. It feels genuine to me.

Jex states he’ll answer the question after he re-reads. So he doesn’t have the answer in mind currently, and nor does he after telling me he disagrees with my read. Another thing is that it takes my big push on Marshy to get Jex to actually do some work. (To also post reasoning as to why he disagrees)


Now, the underlined is the big problem here. He states he remembered the facts wrongly, thinking he was pushing new thoughts and discussions. Ryker states this may have been an error, but to state that Marshy and Ryker are actively pushing and engaging people, and then state he can’t find that information, seems more like wanting to push that he has a town read on them first and then find the facts to support that rather then the other way around, which implies insider knowledge.

I was asked about it. [why I felt marshy was pushing and engaging people] I answered based off of what I remembered. I reread later and it turned out that my memory was wrong, not that it was not available.
Tell me if this is a good response.

Pythag:

Self posts about your own play style always strike me as scummy. It’s like you’re setting yourself up for wifoming yourself.
Pythag states why he finds UP's self meta as scummy, but doesn't consider this is in response to Jex asking UP explaining himself, when he was responding to Ryker.

Ryker: @ Doop @UP What do I need to know about you?

UP: Well I'm eccentric blah blah blah

Jex: What do you mean your playstyle is eccentric? How's that differ between town and scum?

Pythag: UP, I find self meta scummy, it's like your setting yourself up for wifoming yourself.

Pythag has a problem with this but doesn't discuss things with Ryker nor Jex. It seems he was more interested in pointing out that UP's self meta was scummy, rather then arguing that with Ryker especially. He could have gone "Yo ryker why are you asking him to explain his own playstyle, how's that going to help you? I don't like that" but that never happens. It feels like he's more just skimming. This is in addition to Pythag not giving a stance on UP nor voting him. Even if he doesn't like to vote as often, he could have given a stance on UP but didn't care to do that. If he's mobile and doesn't have time to do all that, then why post in the first place instead of waiting until he gets home to truly unpack?

#214 He confirms he didn't read the context properly, and Gorf already mentioned that he was forced to respond about his own play.

#530 Pythag admits here that he didn’t read things correctly. I think it’s suspicious that he votes Maven when Gorf was never pushing Maven, which shows he wanted to give up responsibility for his vote yet since Gorf wasn’t pushing Maven, he was more so responsible for it himself but didn’t have a strong reason to Vote Maven anyway, but wanted to. I already mentioned that he’s already not reading thoroughly enough to have better reads (On Ryker), they are surface level.


@Kary


What was I expecting from your post? Nadda. Remember I said I didn't like my opening? that was part of it. I was trying to be somewhat active since I knew the game had started. I even misread your 'real post' as 'big post.' So I played reactionary....yet I hadn't even posted yet. During RVS. Yup. Idiotic. Should've just waited till I returned home.


@ Marshy


why was I willing to hitch my wagon to Gorf? I guess it's cause I think he's playing town, and I like most of his reasoning. However I was wrong in what I initially posted. I read wrong, and Gorf didn't vote for Maven. So I guess I'm not hitching my wagon to his at all. I'm more comfortable with a Maven lynch than a Ran one though, so I'm actually going to keep my vote here. Though I could easily be convinced to switch to Nabe as well. I don't really like inactives.

.
We get more of the same thing, I don’t really get a read on it one way or the other. Him explaining to Kary that he agrees his entrance was not good, and that he should have not posted while he was on the bus. Just more for the point that he wasn’t reading thoroughly and felt the need to post to stay active without just waiting. His explanation to Marshy isn’t good.

Ryker:

#228 This post is actually one I don't like from Ryker. Jex appears to not be voting, but he's asking him what he has to do to get on my wagon, when he doesn't seem to be trying to convince Jex too much about it. This is similar to my point with him asking Gorf about me.

Damn, I need to sort Kary as well. I generally don't like humoring people chasing me, but I've put that slot off real badly.

I could always OMGUS and call it a day.

:thinking:
This post isn't really good. I think Kary has some solid points he needs to actually address.

No, you were stirring the **** with that Ran/Tom TvS nonsense. It came up and you gave it support. I want to know why. You "couldn't put your finger on it" and now I'm asking you to nail it down and tell me how it has developed since.
I actually liked this part from Ryker right here.


Frozen Flame:

As for doop, yeah I did see his response as more town but I agree with marshy that his initial comment on marshy's "incongruence" seemed like a reach so I guess on balance Im still null on doop. I don't have much else to add other than that tho, mostly just gut reactions that Im voicing
Man, you're hbc, you're supposed to come at my ***, not this weak fos. #holding back crew
this is fire and makes me townlean doop
I think he gave a town read to Doop too easily here.

no read on Uto yet and tho I think marshy made a good point early re: doop calling his post "incongruent" (which I think is more town leaning than scummy so I think doops reaction was off there) his response to marshy rehabilitated that read but maybe Im just giving him too much town cred for having "chutzpah" as marshy said

Nah you didnt miss a JTB read, and if you asked for one earlier I missed it so if I did my b


JTB is in my "can die" pile but dont have any kind of strong read. Just skimmed all his posts and like what has he given us? A grand total of two reads, one null and one townlean, and a townlean with hedging language like "I cant believe Im townreading this slot so early?! lolteehee"? Other than that I just see a lot of criticizing other slots and asking halfassed questions. So yeah, this slot can go.

Hard to explain, but I don’t like his one sentence here. It just feels like he didn’t have a reason to have JTB in the list, and is trying to fabricate a reason to justify that. Otherwise, the reasoning would sound more convincing, but it doesn’t.

Kary

I really wanted to get completely caught up before posting anything substantial but I'm busy this evening and at this point I feel like I'll just catch up during the Night phase. I may have missed anything from page 16 onwards.


My problem with Ryker is that he isn't doing anything that makes me town read him.

Yes, it's true that here and there Ryker has questioned people about their reads, c.f. Gorf on Ran, Poyzin on Doops, etc.

But mostly, Ryker is playing waggon police. "More votes good!" he shouts, and while it is true that pushing waggons moves the game forward, generating reactions and opinions, it is equally true that discussion is important. It is not good enough just to vote for someone.


What isn't Ryker doing?

Firstly, I feel like he lacks direction in who he is pursuing as scum. It is reasonable to have several people in your lynch pool on Day 1, but it feels a little disingenuous for Ryker to be pestering people into voting, without offering those people something to vote for. His push on Maven in particular irks me. My own opinion on Maven is that if he were scum, it would not be smart of him to say something controversial during RVS and then dip out completely.

A waggon on a slot that isn't posting doesn't achieve a great deal in my opinion, and so essentially I do not understand what the payoff is supposed to be from Ryker playing activity police.

Secondly, I don't feel like Ryker has asked anything particularly insightful or made any criticism that suggests to me he is trying to evaluate the behaviour of other players. To take an example, his asking Gorf about a Ranmaru read could, in a possible scenario, be a scum Ryker trying to evaluate the prospects of pushing a mislynch, and to my mind is a very general question that doesn't demand a great deal from Gorf's reply.


Now, with all of that said, I don't think the absence of this particular behaviour from Ryker counts against him.

To me (up to page 16), it leaves him at a could-go-either-way null, because frankly I can't tell where his head is at or what his stances are.


Which is why I found marshy's read on Ryker interesting.




I think I have answered this sufficiently, I just wanted to point out that I'm not a fan of you to receiving a question about Ryker and borderline asking me to answer it for you.




(w.r.t the bold) I feel like you are giving Ryker the benefit of the doubt for no particular reason. I think you are correct in saying Ryker isn't showing classic scumtells e.g. trying to show off, strong-arm the game, etc. But personally I don't see any evidence of depth from him and I am skeptical of how you managed to get to this read so quickly. It's possible that you just have a better meta on Ryker than me, but this read from you set off red flags for me because it didn't seem genuine. It's more as though you looked at what Ryker was doing and then used that as a basis to give him a town read, rather than you looked at his slot with skepticism and then found reason to believe he was town. Maybe (for example) you're trying to buddy him by giving him a town read.


I have a couple more points about marshy, but they may be rendered obsolete by more recent events, and I'm out of time right this second.
This is a very good post. It needs to be addressed.

MAVEN:

I thought Marshy’s post was unnecessary, we are all veterans and it came off like a forced attempt to gain town credit. As it was the start it was perfect to talk about.


Anyone can check any of my recent games and see that I’m too inactive to play in any of them. I really wanted to play with all you guys but I got really busy right at the start and don’t have the time or will to read everything now, so my bad for joining in.

This actually makes sense. I think I can put him back to null for this, and try to read Lore from his own posts.
 

Lore

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Vote: Utopian

The over reactions, wagon hopping, defensiveness, and the last-minute hop to Doop all reek to me. Especially with Doop's self-vote and Utopian's sudden fervent "realization" about it.

I'm also going to re-read Doop's post. I have a theory that will likely involve having a scum read on Pythag by the end of it, but I want to check my work first before going in on it. For now FoS: Pythag until I finish the reread and confirm/deconfirm my suspicion.
 

Ranmaru

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Gorf, here's what you wanted. Zero meta.


Marshy:


Scumtell: Not stepping up to defend his town read.

ive addressed how this isnt scummy and how youre really just assuming you were a townread of his at the time, which from where i stand, doesnt seem so. not to say you were a scumread of his, but there was plenty of reason (that youve admitted) for you not to be a townread

Scumtell: Votes Maven along with me, never having progression or addressing Maven.

i dont think literally anyone had a real/good reason to vote maven because he didnt exist. it was a wagon to push early in the Day. thats not scummy, thats looking to spark a fire

Scumtell: No real direction shown, before his major scum read of JTB. Before, it was just an FOS on Doop and the Maven vote, which I had to initiate.

is he not allowed to sit back and watch before coming to decisions on where to plant his feet?


Ryker:


Scumtell: Asks Gorf about Ran instead of convincing Gorf of Ran Town

same as marshy

Scumtell: Slightly less direction then Marshy, but still not as noticeable

same as marshy








Frozen:


Nada because it was an associative (Will get back to him after reading your case thoroughly, but on a gut level, I like it)

you should, as well as what rykers had to say. its some spicy stuff


Jex:


Scumtell: AtE'ing about his health multiple times and their low energy, stating he is skimming for this reason.

ehh pretty whack scumtell imo, but i get it

Scumtell: Reads have been safe and has not really done his own share of work or digging.

im curious to read more about this, feel free to rehash some quotes and point things out to me

New Scumtell: Expresses memory fuzzyness on what he thinks Marshy has done to progress the game

has he expressed pleasure with marshys posting before this, and is now backpedaling on it? if not plz clarify, if so feel free to give me more to read about this too

Fair enough on the first point. I guess when it's a true scum tell is when it matters, because you make a fair point. (On waiting to see if others push your town read before you defend him)


Fair but I still think that, it adds up. I think in Marshy's case, he actually began to push JTB and that's something we could have read him by. Ryker doesn't really have a push that I can certainly say "ok yeah he's trying to sell me on this person." I do think it's fine to be reactive. I remember Zen barely posting in the beginning of a D1 (as town) and then much much later, coming with a case on who he thought was scum (lol me but I was also town). So I can see town doing that, part of my problem was Marshy was present and doing IC like things. Now, I can't blame him too much for not going too hard on Doop, since Doop was barely even present and readable. I also can blame him for giving Ryker a town read too easily. That was part of my problem with him. I also did like his response to me, it was fair.


Slightly disagree for Ryker asking you about me without doing much else. Alright, Marshy votes along with me, doesn't ask you or others about me without having to convince, and keeps it in his pocket to see how others push me. Ok. Ryker asking you doesn't help with that mindset, and if you answer in the same way, Ryker doesn't have to commit in any different way. I also have another thing very similar to this: #228 I explain in my re-read, but that Ryker is asking Jex what he can do to get him on my wagon when he isn't trying to convince him with reasoning, while not voting me himself.


I explained above that Marshy at least had a JTB push that I can say is his first real push, Doop wasn't really a push, Maven was a 'spark the fire push'. Ryker, had no real push and was just tagging on at the end of pushes, and calling for votes instead of convincing people. I think his Doop vs Pythag call for votes was pseudo content, and then he wouldn't put his money where his mouth is at the every end of the day.


aight on frozen, I did. but as I re-read, he's not looking as bad as Ryker, Pythag, and Jex to me.


Jex quotes in the re-read, I can try talking to you more about Jex. It's pretty easy to tell that the Doop self vote > Jex hammer was coordinated though. All you need is that.

Because their early interaction cant be SvS, you mean? I would think if Doop is scum it more clears Gorf not marshy

No, more so because Marshy wouldn't fit in the scum team I envisioned. I will say it wasn't as certain as Gorf, since Gorf pushed him pretty hard.
 

#HBC | Ryker

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What does second kill narrow on kills (ditto inno child)?

Again, I ask for a spoiler to keep it out of the limelight.

Ran, I was NEVER going to vote on that self vote. I thought there was no way in hell a scumbag would pull that.
 

#HBC | Ryker

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Also, **** you buddy. I had been up all night and I wanted to make sure if I went to sleep, I wasnt going to wake up to deadline having passed. I wanted to make SURE I was able to effect things come EoD, but instead I woke up to a hammered goon who self voted.
 

#HBC | Gorf

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Also, **** you buddy. I had been up all night and I wanted to make sure if I went to sleep, I wasnt going to wake up to deadline having passed. I wanted to make SURE I was able to effect things come EoD, but instead I woke up to a hammered goon who self voted.
uhh yea i think you seem to forget that doop was hammered like a good bit before the Day ends ran. ryker cant be blamed for that.
 

#HBC | Ryker

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Ryker, I want to know who you think is scum today.
Dunno!

Leading guess is either Marshy or Kev died because they were on somebody correctly.

Pythag, Rockin, and Nabe have left me unimpressed.

Maybe I'm wrong on Tom since neither he nor I died.

If I was the vig, I'd be shooting FF today. Probably the one I dislike most off the top of my head without rereading.

Did you expect more?
 

#HBC | Ryker

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I'm really scared to play Kary's bus WIFOM and think it far more fruitful to look into what people were saying the times Doop was up for discussion and that's where I'm gonna focus.
 

Ranmaru

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I don't trust you Ryker. Right now, I think we should actually look at Jex's hammer. Then we can try to think of other directions as well.
 

Ranmaru

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Macman, I'm going to need you here more around please. Talk to me about Ryker, Jex, and Pythag.
 

#HBC | Ryker

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I don't trust you Ryker. Right now, I think we should actually look at Jex's hammer. Then we can try to think of other directions as well.
You haven't trusted me from the start and if I can't do well enough to get myself shot at night, then I probably deserve to lose in LYLO. I'm not worried about it.
 

#HBC | Mac

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ryker, what about tom's late day catchup posts made you town read him ?

Another reason why Jex (Now Spak) is scum and the play, is that JTB (his scumread) has mentioned that he was going to make more posts soon. If Jex truly believes JTB is scum, wouldn’t he want JTB to post more to truly understand his slot? It seems Jex hammered caring less about determining JTB’s alignment further but rather to flip Doop faster regardless of what discussion could come around JTB.
this is actually a decent point. i still have issues with JTB esp since he was able to dodge most of the heat on him by just not posting and somehow got saved by the doop **** at the end of the Day. but then again it's hard to blame ppl for wanting doop dead
 

#HBC | Ryker

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[collapse=POSSIBLE TEAMS]Tracker, Innocent Child, Bodyguard VS NinJOAT, 1-shot vig
JOAT, Innocent Child VS Jailer 1-shot vig
JOAT Innocent Child VS NinJOAT, 1-shot vig[/collapse]

There's only three possible worlds. I assume the shooter is probably scum because it shot either Kev or Marshy and not Nabe or something. If you disagree, cover it quickly and we'll move on.

I'm at a PC now.
 

Ranmaru

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Ryker, if I"m wrong on you, I want you to do three things:

1. Full reads list, with reasoning.
2. Specifically talk to me about what I have said wrt Jex.
3. Respond to Kary's post about you.
 

#HBC | Mac

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Macman, I'm going to need you here more around please. Talk to me about Ryker, Jex, and Pythag.
whats up

uh i still dont got my thoughts in order and need to go through the thread

but ive no issues with Ryker atm (still wanna reread his and gorfs stuff on FF) but will consider what you've said

pythag i still dont like, i initially thought his vote on doopScum at the end of the Day made him look better but i hadn't really considered the whole bussing aspect that you and Kary are raising

jexs i was town reading all of d1, but he's someone ill look at closer on reread
 

Pythag

BRoomer
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@Ran I don't like your case on Ryker,

You're really going after his lack of voting and his supposed lack of scum reads, when, at least to me, it looked like he was pushing wagons to get people to put their feet down SOMEWHERE so that finally they could have something to speak about and question.

I'm not sure what hard scum reads you want from a D1 anyway, it's literally the day with the least amount of information. It's usually all over the place.

Plus, if you're going on that, what about KevinM, who pushed a wagon with no reasoning (sorry kev) Yet clearly he was town. (4,000,000% confirmed if I recall)

I'm looking more at the JexS hammer.

JexS- 4:14
Pythag : 4:16 (vote)
JexS : 4:17 (hammer)
JexS : 4:18 - did I accidentally hammer?

also, marshy writes
so you knew doop was that close to being lynched and voted him anyway?
JexS do you have a response to that?
 

#HBC | Ryker

Netplay Monstrosity
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Sep 16, 2008
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ryker, what about tom's late day catchup posts made you town read him ?
His analysis mostly matched mine. None of his reads failed to match his analysis. None of his analysis seemed forced. If he's scum and he keeps a paper trail like that, he will absolutely hang himself before the game ends. Play like that is protown and deserves a town read.

Cross his reads with his notes and you can see where he's looking. I like that.
 
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