DGames Summer Mafia Bash - Day 2 Begins. Deadline Day 2 begins - Deadline 8:00 A.M. CST Monday 6/24

[#HBC | marshy]

man

this game is lowkey lit

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

#HBC | Gorf Do I need to reanalyze UP?

I may pass out now. @me if you need me and I'll get to it as soon as I see it.

nah, id say up is pretty brownie townie

 

[Lore]

giraffelasergun You're co-modding, right? Mind confirming the screenshot ruling?


But I'll go ahead and state my case before that happens. Unless I am misreading, Utopian has hopped onto nearly every single popular wagon, usually as the 3rd or 4th vote. No other player besides Ryker compares unless I'm misreading my data, and Ryker has pretty clearly stated his intentions to get wagons rolling and spur discussions.

All post numbers will be referencing vote count posts, not the actual posts. The vote counts are what I compiled.

Utopian started on JeXs on #423, jumped to Maven in #577, jumped to Ran in #654, went to Doop in #758 as that ball started rolling, leapt over to JTB in #840, then stayed there while it remained the wagon with the highest vote count and momentum.

This is opportunistic behavior, and it is highly suspicious to me. No other player has this level of wagon-chasing.


Also pop quiz. Who's wagon DIDN'T Utopian jump to? Rockin. Depending on Utopian's flip (which at this point I assume will be Scum), I find Rockin much more suspicious in light of this.

 

[Lore]

not sure that I did Lore

Then I'll reread more later and decide how I feel on this, right now I find Utopian to be much more suspicious. Thanks for the answer though.

 

[Lore]

Ryker's wagon jumping I'm assuming is just aggressive D1 play, but more input is always welcome. But he's spurring discussion, asking questions, and genuinely seems to be scum hunting from my current impression of him.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

Lore actually i looked back at what marshy said and I can see what you may have had an issue with

he said: "Who's down for a Tom wagon alongside JTB's" and I said id be on Tom's in a second, i guess implying that i'd prefer tom over JTB

i hadn't thought about it as moving off JTBs wagon because I'd rather lynch Tom over him. All i was thinking was that I wholeheartedly support Tom getting pressure

anyway i can see what you think is inconsistent now so ya, not as ridiculous as i initially thought when reading your posts

also just wanna say that im feelin pretty good about your slot - I initially came out saying that I liked your first post, and as scum i don't really see you scumspecting the first person who was positive towards you

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

You do a lot of assuming don't you?

I went to Maven per Ryker's advice to move to a wagon, from where my gut intention was on JeXs. I'll give you Ran, Doop, and JTB. Ran wasn't exactly a "wagon" when I joined, and you are neglecting Pythag from your list as well. I'll give you the rest. (I've just been putting pressure on players who are wagoned to see how they'll react. None of these votes are final. Period. Nobody is going to be hammered.)

Rockin didn't make sense, as I've stated numerous times. It was a KevinM bandwagon / (as Doop worded) housecleaning wagon, which makes no sense because both sides do not mean anything. This was going on at the same time as the Maven wagon, so it wouldn't make any sense to flip back and forth between the two. I have a townread on Rockin. If I flip scum, says you, then you all can go after Rockin. If I don't, then literally nothing happens but you lose a townie and you're no closer to finding the scum.

Any other inquiries? I see you have none so I'm making up my own for you. Hence my wordwall over a simple answer which you dread.

 

[giraffelasergun]

giraffelasergun You're co-modding, right? Mind confirming the screenshot ruling?
.

If you're screens shots are just of personal notes in a google spreedsheet/etc it's fine to post. Make sure it;s just info found in the thread and contains no mod data(ie role pm or times mod pms were sent). Also if it's big please spoiler tag it.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

People don’t want to vote Rockin but find everything wrong with his posts. 2019 sucks

the only thing that really excites me about a rockin lynch is the sweet satisfaction of keeping the meme alive. but i will admit his latest string has got me feeling it more and more. would be up for a late game hbc

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

I wholeheartedly feel like you're going in the wrong direction with this whole thing because this is a TvT if I've ever seen one.

So far, I've been throwing my vote around, sure. You'll see me on one of the two popular wagons at the time. If that's a problem, I can take it off, but JTB is my current strongest scumread. As more and more developments are made, I change my perspective and my vote. Additionally, I haven't been voting on my strongest scum read, as I've made clear in the past and will go back and fetch a quote if needed. I'm not asking you to reread the whole entire game thus far.

When the game days are 6 days, votes in the first half are a commodity. No 9 players are going to go the same direction on the first day. People end up as the butt of wagons for reasons that differ from case to case. The more pressure there can be, the better. However, I have never endorsed a wagon that doesn't make sense, such as the Pythag/Rockin wagons. I guess FF was also supposed to be a wagon per Ryker but that just never got off the ground. Case in point, these votes don't matter. At least, that's what I have gathered thus far given that almost half of the players have been "wagoned" at some point in the game, regardless if it was sizeable or not.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

If I'm wrong about something, please correct me. I am striving to participate on the same level as the rest of you, but I'm bound to make a false claim at some point.

 

[Lore]

Lore actually i looked back at what marshy said and I can see what you may have had an issue with

he said: "Who's down for a Tom wagon alongside JTB's" and I said id be on Tom's in a second, i guess implying that i'd prefer tom over JTB

i hadn't thought about it as moving off JTBs wagon because I'd rather lynch Tom over him. All i was thinking was that I wholeheartedly support Tom getting pressure

anyway i can see what you think is inconsistent now so ya, not as ridiculous as i initially thought when reading your posts

also just wanna say that im feelin pretty good about your slot - I initially came out saying that I liked your first post, and as scum i don't really see you scumspecting the first person who was positive towards you

That makes a bit more sense, thanks for the explanation. Later I'll reread and settle my feelings on it completely, but after this, I can very much see your point of view.

You do a lot of assuming don't you?

I went to Maven per Ryker's advice to move to a wagon, from where my gut intention was on JeXs. I'll give you Ran, Doop, and JTB. Ran wasn't exactly a "wagon" when I joined, and you are neglecting Pythag from your list as well. I'll give you the rest. (I've just been putting pressure on players who are wagoned to see how they'll react. None of these votes are final. Period. Nobody is going to be hammered.)

Rockin didn't make sense, as I've stated numerous times. It was a KevinM bandwagon / (as Doop worded) housecleaning wagon, which makes no sense because both sides do not mean anything. This was going on at the same time as the Maven wagon, so it wouldn't make any sense to flip back and forth between the two. I have a townread on Rockin. If I flip scum, says you, then you all can go after Rockin. If I don't, then literally nothing happens but you lose a townie and you're no closer to finding the scum.

Any other inquiries? I see you have none so I'm making up my own for you. Hence my wordwall over a simple answer which you dread.

Attempting to rile me up with that first line isn't doing you any favors. Come on.

I did miss Pythag, thanks! I was only looking at vote count posts. So you're saying that out of 5 that you bring up here, only 1 wasn't just a wagon-chasing vote. Not sure how this helps your case.

Pretty large defense of Rockin here too, interesting. You even throw in some WIFOM about your flip to help with it. Even more interesting.

I wholeheartedly feel like you're going in the wrong direction with this whole thing because this is a TvT if I've ever seen one.

So far, I've been throwing my vote around, sure. You'll see me on one of the two popular wagons at the time. If that's a problem, I can take it off, but JTB is my current strongest scumread. As more and more developments are made, I change my perspective and my vote. Additionally, I haven't been voting on my strongest scum read, as I've made clear in the past and will go back and fetch a quote if needed. I'm not asking you to reread the whole entire game thus far.

When the game days are 6 days, votes in the first half are a commodity. No 9 players are going to go the same direction on the first day. People end up as the butt of wagons for reasons that differ from case to case. The more pressure there can be, the better. However, I have never endorsed a wagon that doesn't make sense, such as the Pythag/Rockin wagons. I guess FF was also supposed to be a wagon per Ryker but that just never got off the ground. Case in point, these votes don't matter. At least, that's what I have gathered thus far given that almost half of the players have been "wagoned" at some point in the game, regardless if it was sizeable or not.

If this is a TvT to you after literally only a few hours of me posting in general, you must be psychic.

Yeah, you've been throwing your vote around. You've also been the only player doing this, besides Ryker who laid out pretty clear reasons.

The last bit is kinda irrelevant; the wagons making sense doesn't prove or disprove my suspicion of you. Heck, you'd be incredibly dumb as scum to do this behavior to wagons that don't make sense.


After these two posts, I'm further settled into my vote and am very comfortable there.

 

[Lore]

I also forgot to call out the "word wall" mention from you, particularly the "Hence my wordwall over a simple answer which you dread." If these two posts were meant as a defense, then tossing in insults didn't really help.

 

[Lore]

I don't have an "attach image" button here at work, weird. I'll see if I can change that, if not then the vote count sheets will have to come later.

 

[ranmaru]

Gorf, here's what you wanted. Zero meta.

Marshy:

Scumtell: Not stepping up to defend his town read.
Scumtell: Votes Maven along with me, never having progression or addressing Maven.
Scumtell: No real direction shown, before his major scum read of JTB. Before, it was just an FOS on Doop and the Maven vote, which I had to initiate.

Ryker:

Scumtell: Asks Gorf about Ran instead of convincing Gorf of Ran Town
Scumtell: Slightly less direction then Marshy, but still not as noticeable

Frozen:

Nada because it was an associative (Will get back to him after reading your case thoroughly, but on a gut level, I like it)

Jex:

Scumtell: AtE'ing about his health multiple times and their low energy, stating he is skimming for this reason.
Scumtell: Reads have been safe and has not really done his own share of work or digging.
New Scumtell: Expresses memory fuzzyness on what he thinks Marshy has done to progress the game

 

[ranmaru]

I have been reading, as I am too involved in this game now. I am curious as to why Jex and Uto are questioning JTB now rather then before (especially since Jex had a null on him)

Uto, I actually asked you this question too, I'd like an answer.

 

[ranmaru]

ill answer you first thing tomorrow ran. im going to reread pythag as well

Alright it's tomorrow. Talk to me.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Uto, I actually asked you this question too, I'd like an answer.

Thought you dropped out and were making a finishing post, sorry. If I might ask, before what?

 

[ranmaru]

That's fair. I mean, JTB said he wondered why you didn't bring this up when it was a current topic, a few days ago. So wondering why you are fine with voting him now but never mentioned that before, when it was current.

 

[#HBC | marshy]

Alright it's tomorrow. Talk to me.

what do you want to know?

 

[ranmaru]

#883

 

[#HBC | Kary]

is "it looks cooler that way" an acceptable answer?

i had a feeling my jtb push would gain traction and i thought about waiting longer to post it. so i just told the thread "expect me later" so i could publicly log that i was finding someone especially sus. but after ran replaced out i didnt want the game to derail so posted it to keep the discussion going

this explanation raises a lot more questions than it answers.

regardless, you shouldn't be posting this 'secret' stuff in the first place. it denies town a paper trail and gives you room to pivot your reads if you're scum.

You're usually solid at calling out when someone is going down a pretty useless rabbit hole. Mind giving your thoughts on the above? It's just not adding up for me, and I'd appreciate a second perspective.

To be blunt, I intended my asking of your opinion to be an olive branch from last game, where I literally wanted your slot modkilled for the rules violation from (I'm assuming) your other head. We've also butted heads in other games too, iirc, and I wanted to show that I'd like to cooperate and work together.

My having an opinion on whatever problem you have with Mac would require me to be caught up, or in other words, to read your posts.

Of course I could just say that explicitly, but that doesn't answer my questions. Why you are asking me in the first place? You seem to have caught up on the thread in a surprisingly quick amount of time, and I feel as though your asking me this sort of question implies you have me at a town read. There is also the obvious question of why you are pursuing something if you yourself think it could be nothing.

Your explanation answers some of these questions, but this isn't RVS anymore, and I don't think you should be basing your questions around some baggage from a previous game. And I'm not a mind reader, so if you want to offer me an olive branch you could just say as much.

I don't know what to make of your over-reaction, but I expect I will have a better idea after I've actually read up.

 

[ranmaru]

Lore seems like that would involve reading your posts.

Kary, I want to know why you said this, and why you have a problem reading Lore's posts? Is this a personal problem? If you guys worked it out, why bring this up.

 

[#HBC | marshy]

I take back what I said about scum you saying that. I just looked at Civ 5 Mafia and you said *that's bad* but this reflects more of your town game last time I think. I'm sure this is not out of your range though, you out played me as scum last in Civ 5 so I'm keeping my eyes on you. I think part of my problem with you was I didn't really have any idea of where you were looking. Why did you vote Maven with me? I'll re-read JTB and give my conclusion on him later. You said 'in due time' when I asked you to talk to me. So, is it finally time, or what?

i voted maven cuz at the time my vote was on you. i initially voted you cuz imo you had no vigor to your posts and it felt like you were phoning it in. after you got wagoned, you showed up, voted tom/maven, started engaging people, etc. so i was like 'ok, ran is probably town' and threw my vote on maven because, well, why not? i didnt like mavens entrance in the game and i was more than fine having him return to a wagon on him and seeing what other people would say. it was a vote with the intention of exploring what would happen if i helped put some momentum in his direction

i dont remember the exact circumstances behind me telling you "ill talk to you in due time." i probably townread you and thought it would b more beneficial to let the thread play out than getting into a back and forth with you about stuff that i probably didnt find that useful to talk about. i got what i wanted from you (a townread) so didnt feel too compelled to go much further at the time. i also wanted to see if people would keep pushing you before i went public with a townread on you

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Attempting to rile me up with that first line isn't doing you any favors. Come on.

I don't need favors, thanks.

If this is a TvT to you after literally only a few hours of me posting in general, you must be psychic.

Yeah, you've been throwing your vote around. You've also been the only player doing this, besides Ryker who laid out pretty clear reasons.

First bit is irrelevant, second bit has been established.

Everything else written is a fair analysis. I don't have anything to add.

That's fair. I mean, JTB said he wondered why you didn't bring this up when it was a current topic, a few days ago. So wondering why you are fine with voting him now but never mentioned that before, when it was current.

For a long while, I had JTB as null. I didn't see many problems with his play, it seemed as if he was trying to help town out as much as possible. However, once the JTB wagon started to grow and I wanted to ask him questions why, he sort of deflected them and never got back to them. I wasn't a JTB campaigner from the get-go, but I threw my vote there based on the reasoning of others, such as JeXs, to ask a couple questions of my own. However, I was just upset that I couldn't get a straight answer, which is why I didn't move off. It doesn't matter now though, I'm keeping it on JTB unless there's a better argument out there.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Gorf, here's what you wanted. Zero meta.

Marshy:

Scumtell: Not stepping up to defend his town read.
ive addressed how this isnt scummy and how youre really just assuming you were a townread of his at the time, which from where i stand, doesnt seem so. not to say you were a scumread of his, but there was plenty of reason (that youve admitted) for you not to be a townread
Scumtell: Votes Maven along with me, never having progression or addressing Maven.
i dont think literally anyone had a real/good reason to vote maven because he didnt exist. it was a wagon to push early in the Day. thats not scummy, thats looking to spark a fire
Scumtell: No real direction shown, before his major scum read of JTB. Before, it was just an FOS on Doop and the Maven vote, which I had to initiate.
is he not allowed to sit back and watch before coming to decisions on where to plant his feet?
Ryker:

Scumtell: Asks Gorf about Ran instead of convincing Gorf of Ran Town
same as marshy
Scumtell: Slightly less direction then Marshy, but still not as noticeable
same as marshy

Frozen:

Nada because it was an associative (Will get back to him after reading your case thoroughly, but on a gut level, I like it)
you should, as well as what rykers had to say. its some spicy stuff

Jex:

Scumtell: AtE'ing about his health multiple times and their low energy, stating he is skimming for this reason.
ehh pretty whack scumtell imo, but i get it
Scumtell: Reads have been safe and has not really done his own share of work or digging.
im curious to read more about this, feel free to rehash some quotes and point things out to me
New Scumtell: Expresses memory fuzzyness on what he thinks Marshy has done to progress the game
has he expressed pleasure with marshys posting before this, and is now backpedaling on it? if not plz clarify, if so feel free to give me more to read about this too

yea man i feel like your marshy and ryker reads are super dramaticized and you should sit on those, put them to the backburner. they are not the plays toDay by any means, and focusing attention elsewhere is pertinent if you wanna maintain involvement in the latter part of the Day imo. im down to indulge you on your jex read tho.

what are your current thoughts on jtb, and go ahead and read back from when i posted my fat jtb post (theres some decent connecting thread with ff in there) - like one page ago to get the brunt of ff distaste from me/ryker. id love to hear your thoughts in the comments below

 

[Lore]

My having an opinion on whatever problem you have with Mac would require me to be caught up, or in other words, to read your posts.

Of course I could just say that explicitly, but that doesn't answer my questions. Why you are asking me in the first place? You seem to have caught up on the thread in a surprisingly quick amount of time, and I feel as though your asking me this sort of question implies you have me at a town read. There is also the obvious question of why you are pursuing something if you yourself think it could be nothing.

Your explanation answers some of these questions, but this isn't RVS anymore, and I don't think you should be basing your questions around some baggage from a previous game. And I'm not a mind reader, so if you want to offer me an olive branch you could just say as much.

I don't know what to make of your over-reaction, but I expect I will have a better idea after I've actually read up.

If this is really how you meant your original post, then I deeply apologize. I took it as something completely different, hence my reaction. I very much took it as a direct and insulting "your posts aren't worth reading" type of post.

Thanks for the explanation, and I, again, apologize.

 

[ranmaru]

I'll do that Gorf.

Lore From what I read, at the top of my head, your word choice did seem negative. *Reek* makes it seem negative and made him feel like he had to defend himself. I'm also not sure if we could tell if you were scum reading him there or anything else, it was a little vague. Communication is key, man.

 

[Lore]

I don't need favors, thanks.


First bit is irrelevant, second bit has been established.

Everything else written is a fair analysis. I don't have anything to add.

The condescension is strong with that first line.

First bit is very relevant. In a single phrase of "this is TvT," you establish that you see me as Town and that you're trying to associate yourself as town by proxy. Seeing me as Town this quick, after I've only played for a couple hours and the previous slot-holder had plenty of votes on him? It's weird.

Second bit has been established and not debunked. It's still something that is leading me to a scum read of you.

 

[Lore]

I'll do that Gorf.

Lore From what I read, at the top of my head, your word choice did seem negative. *Reek* makes it seem negative and made him feel like he had to defend himself. I'm also not sure if we could tell if you were scum reading him there or anything else, it was a little vague. Communication is key, man.

Thanks for giving your view as an outside perspective. Yeah, I definitely did poor word choices there. I read Utopian as a newer player who was intimidated by the scale and roster of this game, or at least that was my read at the time. I'll try to do better in the future.

The rest of my read is based on his behavior past that point, plus the voting trends.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

#HBC | Red Ryu Just wanting to confirm before I post them, but we are allowed to post screens of spreadsheets etc that we make, right?

Vote: Utopian and will explain shortly in my next post, will not include spreadsheet screens until mod gives the OK.

Personal notes are fine to post.

What I do not allow for the screenshot rule is role PMs, conversations between hydra partners or out of game conversations related to the game.

 

[JeXs]

Jex:

Scumtell: AtE'ing about his health multiple times and their low energy, stating he is skimming for this reason.
Scumtell: Reads have been safe and has not really done his own share of work or digging.
New Scumtell: Expresses memory fuzzyness on what he thinks Marshy has done to progress the game

I don't want to keep using my irl situation as an excuse to keep skimming and not putting in much effort, which is what caused me to reread the game in the first place, but is having a fuzzy memory that weird when you're dealing with tons of stuff while also being sick?

This is all I'm going to say and I'm not going to engage you, Ran. I'm not having a repeat of Sleepover 3.

 

[Rockin]

why are you flopping from doop, who you voted just last night?

Ryker was telling me to pick a 'relevant wagon.' At the time before that post, my vote was on Jex. Seeing as how it'd be difficult to get a wagon going for Jex, I turned my attention to Doop, who had 2 people based on the last vote count. I didn't initially wanted to jump in on the JTB wagon, cause nothing in particular stuck out to me on the first read on JTB's post, but with deadline being 3 days away, I rather have something than a no lynch. Upon my vote to Doop, I noticed no one was voting for him, so I begrudgingly went on the JTB wagon.

Upon rereading JTB's post, I can somewhat understand why people may want him to go. It's just one of those moments where I prefer someone else on the chopping block.

 

[Pythag]

You do a lot of assuming don't you?

I went to Maven per Ryker's advice to move to a wagon, from where my gut intention was on JeXs. I'll give you Ran, Doop, and JTB. Ran wasn't exactly a "wagon" when I joined, and you are neglecting Pythag from your list as well. I'll give you the rest. (I've just been putting pressure on players who are wagoned to see how they'll react. None of these votes are final. Period. Nobody is going to be hammered.)

Rockin didn't make sense, as I've stated numerous times. It was a KevinM bandwagon / (as Doop worded) housecleaning wagon, which makes no sense because both sides do not mean anything. This was going on at the same time as the Maven wagon, so it wouldn't make any sense to flip back and forth between the two. I have a townread on Rockin. If I flip scum, says you, then you all can go after Rockin. If I don't, then literally nothing happens but you lose a townie and you're no closer to finding the scum.

Any other inquiries? I see you have none so I'm making up my own for you. Hence my wordwall over a simple answer which you dread.

Peeyew, this post does reek.

Defensive, aggresive, dismissive, it's got it all!

I don't really like your defense either.
You're essentially implying your vote doesn't mean anything until you want it to. Or that votes for pressure don't mean anything.

Might I suggest that if you're literally stating you vote for pressure, that defeats the purpose?

That just kinda confuses me.
Also because, what if the wagon continued and someone did get hammered. you get to claim that you were on it all along?

Seems like heads you win, tails we lose.

My question to you is, how do you determine to the town what is your final vote?

 

[#HBC | marshy]

lmao theres been a lil bit of attitude in this game thus far (but not like too much)

dgames is always best served with a pinch of salt

 

[Lore]

I don't want to keep using my irl situation as an excuse to keep skimming and not putting in much effort, which is what caused me to reread the game in the first place, but is having a fuzzy memory that weird when you're dealing with tons of stuff while also being sick?

This is all I'm going to say and I'm not going to engage you, Ran. I'm not having a repeat of Sleepover 3.

Quick chime in to say that I agree with this post, I think it's better for the community to trust people when they say irl things are happening.

But if they're found to be abusing it or lying, they shouldn't be allowed into further games. It'd be ****ed up to lie about, and these games run on trust when it comes to irl situations.

 

[ranmaru]

Jex, I do think it is weird. Why confidently answer that you can find those aspects of his play if it's not available in your memory? Also, I hope you do feel better. Lore It's not really whether he was having irl troubles or not. I'll leave it at this. I do agree that we should trust each other when irl **** happens, not sure if that's actually a general rule we follow though. :thinkingemoji:

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Ryker was telling me to pick a 'relevant wagon.' At the time before that post, my vote was on Jex. Seeing as how it'd be difficult to get a wagon going for Jex, I turned my attention to Doop, who had 2 people based on the last vote count. I didn't initially wanted to jump in on the JTB wagon, cause nothing in particular stuck out to me on the first read on JTB's post, but with deadline being 3 days away, I rather have something than a no lynch. Upon my vote to Doop, I noticed no one was voting for him, so I begrudgingly went on the JTB wagon.

Upon rereading JTB's post, I can somewhat understand why people may want him to go. It's just one of those moments where I prefer someone else on the chopping block.

wtf are your reads

 

[ranmaru]

#HBC | Ryker Thoughts on this?

 

[Lore]

Jex, I do think it is weird. Why confidently answer that you can find those aspects of his play if it's not available in your memory? Also, I hope you do feel better. Lore It's not really whether he was having irl troubles or not. I'll leave it at this. I do agree that we should trust each other when irl **** happens, not sure if that's actually a general rule we follow though. :thinkingemoji:

No worries, just wanted to bring it up as a general thought and less as a targeted thing.