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[Tom]

i know where youre coming from, because years ago i also fought so hard against No Lynch 99% of all cases. you can actually see the essays and long posts i wrote in games like Battlestar Galactica Mafia and stuff.

but you will get to a point where you see that it is much more valuable to hold onto people that you believe are town than to lynch them just because you need a lynch each day.

you can optimize all you want, but if you believe someone is a townie and they are being focused on, the scum will keep them alive, which means that you still have someone you think is a townie closer and closer to the end of the game.

if youre asking me how i balance games, i take into account 'best pro-town scenario," "best pro-scum scenario," "best-indy scenario," "most likely scenario (based on percentages)," and i run through a lot of sample games on paper. i also like to couple PRs and give them point values (for example, a cop with guaranteed sanity is equal to a pair of two non-recruiting masons).

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Yep.

You could very easily be wrong, and the losses from a no lynch are too substantial.

You COULD be wrong, but why would you want to eliminate someone who you are very confident is town and would rather keep around to work with?

Let's say that we're dealing with a 12 person setup, 3 of which are scum (arbitrary). 3 out of 12, that's 25% chance of hitting scum that you can NEVER GET BACK. Lynches are a precious resource. Wasting them is a substantial net loss for town.

This completely ignores the percentage of say, that person who you didn't lynch nailing scum with a night ability and therefor guaranteeing you a correct lynch the next day, or the potential of a PR from clearing someone for the next day. Even if you don't take PRs into account, if you don't take that "25% chance" that day and go NL, then in that scenario when its MYLO instead of it normally being LYLO had you lynched, you can just no lynch again.

It all depends on the game. Lynching is not a priori a better town strategy than no lynching. You have to use your discretion. No Lynching simply puts more emphasis on what happens at night than what happens during the day. Typically this isn't the optimal strategy, but it a game with a lot of power roles, or other means of nailing scum through night abilities, etc., going no lynch instead of just forcing yourself to off someone INCREASES your chances of winning, because you aren't shooting yourself in the foot killing off likely town weapons.

You can't just say, there are 3 scum out of 12 people, no lynching means we're throwing away a 25% shot at scum and leave it at that. What about that other 75% chance of failure? Guess what, that HURTS THE TOWN, especially if they're a power role.

There are too many unknowns and confounding factors to just attribute a positive value to lynching people. It's a valuable town tool, yes, and it typically MUST be done for town to win, yes, but that DOES NOT mean that its is 100% always good to lynch someone everyday, and therefore, it CANNOT always be optimal townie play.

 

[Tom]

just to underline the fact, we all agree that lynching is normally and almost always the best idea. we're just saying NL is an important option, situationally, and shouldn't be ****ed. also, ff made other points about statistics and optimal play.

 

[Chaco]

omfg don't remind me about Newbie 1.

I ****ing handed that game to TUSM on a silver platter and he botched it. >_< Adum put it perfectly, it was the most beautifully stupid thing ever. If he had been right, it would've been brilliant, but he WAYYYY over thought the situation, in a NEWBIE GAME of all places lol.

I'm seriously like a curse in Newbie games. Town does fantastic while I'm alive, then I die and it all goes to ****.

/fl ex

 

[Deleted member]

I'm accessing this site from my school.

I find it interesting that this site manage to avoid being blocked while so many other gaming sites (IGN for example) have been blocked. How do you think school manage to avoid this site, especially since it's a well-known gamer site?

 

[Nicholas1024]

Quick note: Calvin from Pen & Sword 2 is epic.

 

[Overswarm]

vote SSBF

Stop fishing

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

THERE IS A TURTLE IN PEN AND SWORDS
A FKING TURTLE
Amaziiiing

 

[Tom]

pen and sword is literally the best game in decisive games

 

[M.K]

I had so much fun reading the Calvin bit just because I LOVE the comics.
<3

 

[Nicholas1024]

V/LA from Monday until the 11th. Probably no internet access whatsoever.(Hopefully I'll find a computer or something every few days to access the thread, post, and send in night actions, but who knows...)

 

[vanderzant]

THERE IS A TURTLE IN PEN AND SWORDS
A FKING TURTLE
Amaziiiing

:D

10 :D's

 

[Tom]

People playing Pen and Sword who haven't posted yet need to step it up!

 

[Clownbot]

I feel like I crammed too much into my portion. I sort of tried to link a lot of stuff together and it might have come out a little messy.

 

[Tom]

I love what you did, especially the linking together of areas. I had thought about doing it myself, in a way!

 

[M.K]

I'm coming soon D:

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

I'm coming soon D:

...
That's what she said!

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

I need a fun mafia game right nooooooow D:
Anyone hosting one of them closed 9man games any time soon? I need a shot of mafias.

 

[Deleted member]

I need a fun mafia game right nooooooow D:
Anyone hosting one of them closed 9man games any time soon? I need a shot of mafias.

Come to think about it, those are infrequent. However, The Muppet Mafia was pretty fun when I got through the massive tunneling I've been encountering for most of Day 1.

 

[Tom]

I need a fun mafia game right nooooooow D:
Anyone hosting one of them closed 9man games any time soon? I need a shot of mafias.

I could host a closed private 9-man if you wanted... I haven't hosted a game to completion in a while!

 

[Handorin]

I'd rather have a marathonish game that I could play in. I can't really play in normal ones since I'm leaving a a few weeks.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

I could host a closed private 9-man if you wanted... I haven't hosted a game to completion in a while!

I'd be totally in for that :D

 

[KevinM]

I can't wait to be home to post my Pen and Swords ENTRY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BONERTOWNNNNNNNNNN!

 

[Riddle]

I could host a closed private 9-man if you wanted... I haven't hosted a game to completion in a while!

You should totally invite me

 

[Overswarm]

I can host a private game if people would want to join. I have a few mafia games saved up. I could always run Chrono Trigger mafia in here once it finishes in the BBR, that's a fun setup.

 

[Tom]

Is it a fairly normal closed 9p? If not, it defeats the whole purpose and we might as well fill up Pikmin Mafia (which is next in line)... I was just going to do a closed 9p with minimal/no flavor.

@Handorin: Maybe I'll set up a Marathon for next Sunday? Would that be a good time for you? I'm sure it could be a good time for other people. I mean, once I pass it by Xiivi. Xonar, I bet that would satisfy your normal craving. Marathons are the ****.

 

[Tom]

4:13:42 PM Thomas McIntire: i thought of an awesome character
4:13:50 PM Thomas McIntire: Ludacris with Lightning hands
4:14:10 PM frozenfarce: lol
4:17:26 PM frozenfarce: I think I'm going to enter Peter Godly in a PNS one of these days
4:17:59 PM Thomas McIntire: i do want to be a gangster rapper with an elemental power
4:18:02 PM Thomas McIntire: Gucci Mane with Fire hands
4:18:04 PM Thomas McIntire: etc.
4:18:12 PM Thomas McIntire: Lil Wayne with Water powers
4:18:19 PM frozenfarce: water hands*
4:18:21 PM Thomas McIntire: haha
4:18:33 PM Thomas McIntire: Fifty Cent with Earth hands
4:18:39 PM frozenfarce: no way
4:18:41 PM frozenfarce: Fifty Cent with
4:18:45 PM frozenfarce: Regeneration hands
4:18:46 PM Thomas McIntire: lol
4:18:50 PM Thomas McIntire: so he can't die trying?
4:18:52 PM frozenfarce: because that's how he survived the gunshots
4:18:52 PM Thomas McIntire: LOL
4:18:54 PM frozenfarce: exactly
4:19:08 PM Thomas McIntire: Get rich or die trying and then come back to life with regeneration hands and get rich
4:19:48 PM frozenfarce: there's your alias

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Is it a fairly normal closed 9p? If not, it defeats the whole purpose and we might as well fill up Pikmin Mafia (which is next in line)... I was just going to do a closed 9p with minimal/no flavor.

@Handorin: Maybe I'll set up a Marathon for next Sunday? Would that be a good time for you? I'm sure it could be a good time for other people. I mean, once I pass it by Xiivi. Xonar, I bet that would satisfy your normal craving. Marathons are the ****.

What's the idea of a marathon?

 

[Tom]

We play the game here on the forum, but each day lasts 35~ minutes and each night lasts 10~ minutes. Fire and Ice (Marathon) Mafia by Chaco in the archives was a marathon game, the first and only (and successful).

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

So it's basicly everyone ninjaing everything. Nice, I'm up for that.

edit: http://flockdraw.com/ramses
bored /join? D:

 

[Overswarm]

All my games have flavor and special roles. Vanilla games are boring in comparison.


I've noticed most of the time that the inactive people that COULD be playing but don't are Vanilla roles. mafia members and special roles often want to stay. Giving everyone something special makes them enjoy the game more, so I make the game enjoyable for everyone.

 

[Tom]

So it's basicly everyone ninjaing everything. Nice, I'm up for that.

edit: http://flockdraw.com/ramses
bored /join? D:

I would, but Pen and Sword II :3

All my games have flavor and special roles. Vanilla games are boring in comparison.


I've noticed most of the time that the inactive people that COULD be playing but don't are Vanilla roles. mafia members and special roles often want to stay. Giving everyone something special makes them enjoy the game more, so I make the game enjoyable for everyone.

I've played so many vanilla games that beg to differ! It really depends. The BRoom, for instance, dies of inactivity unless each role is at least somewhat unique. Groups of DGamers have thrived with just vanilla roles and classic PRs though.

There are so many different ways to play a vanilla townie, and even more ways to play a cop or vigilante. Plus, out of nine games with vigilantes, each player will probably only get play it once. So vanilla games can last a group a long time.

But I understand what you mean, and had to tailor games to the BRoom like that.

I suggested a normal 9player game because that's what Xonar requested, and if we were just going to play a tailored game, we would be doing everyone waiting in line in the queue to host tailored games (especially upcoming Pikmin mafia) a total disservice and disrespect.

 

[Evil Eye]

I agree with Tom wholeheartedly. The point of jumping ahead of a queue full of tailored games to host a tailored game being unfair, in particular.

But I also think that the argument about VT's being bland is silly. I do agree that some people probably get bored by them, but I think they are the minority in a larger group of people that just go inactive because they get bored of or stop caring about the game itself.

I mean, how much does having a role with a cool night action, for example, really change your experience? Look at it in the long haul. You read your role PM, you go "oh, neat". Maybe you give special consideration to your role in your Day play... sometimes. But the vast majority of the time you spend playing the game is going to be a vanilla game, if you think about it. Sewing distrust among the townies. Looking for scummy behavior in the town. Unless you have some special win condition that goes way out of the scope of typical town/mafia/indy wincons, the fundamentals are always going to be at the heart of almost everything you do.

Special roles and such, far more often than not, are seasoning.

 

[Evil Eye]

also wtf pen and sword people. Get at it.

 

[Overswarm]

Special roles and such, far more often than not, are seasoning.

You have obviously not played my games, hahaha

 

[Handorin]

@Tom: I'll be out of town from Friday to Monday.

 

[M.K]

Wow, my hand hurts and that's only the first section.

X_X Well we good bruh, this is gunna be fun!

 

[Clownbot]

Spoiler

o_O

Well to say the least my thoughts about how Ayoko would turn out as a character were rather... Inaccurate.

Reading your part was pretty fun.

Spoiler

I didn't expect you to put a spin on things with how she was acting; interesting twist.

 

[M.K]

o_O

Well to say the least my thoughts about how Ayoko would turn out as a character were rather... Inaccurate.

Reading your part was pretty fun though. I didn't expect you to put a spin on things with how she was acting; interesting twist.

LOL omg thanks Clownbot!

Spoiler

Haha, how did you expect her to turn out!?

 

[Clownbot]

Like... I don't know, differently.

Spoiler

It was probably the way she acted in Evil Eye's portion, which I figured was genuine. As your CIS mentioned she doesn't really have much emotion, but how she handled dealing with Cooper made me realize how extreme it really was.

EDIT: Added spoiler tags... Not sure if it was necessary but I want to be safe.