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Social DGames Social | V/LA |

ranmaru

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 10, 2008
Messages
13,296
Switch FC
SW-0654 7794 0698
Yes, a videogame. I'll keep you in mind then. I intend to learn how to draw at least have some skill to contribute to videogame making.

Obviously wouldn't be anytime soon but I intend to do it. Reading some books about it already and such. I'll send you a PM with questions.
 

Overswarm

is laughing at you
Joined
May 4, 2005
Messages
21,181
Answered PM.


Making video games is really easy and really hard.

It's really hard to make something that is actually enjoyable, especially since you learn really quickly that "really enjoyable" changes depending on the beholder. On top of this, you can have the entire game done, but it needs polish before the "fun" reveals itself... and adding that polish? That last 10% of effort? Takes 90% of the time.

It's really easy in the fact that all the information you will ever want or need is already available to you for the taking. With dedication, you can build something. It just takes time, effort, and dedication.

I've temporarily slowed down some on game making because I was in crunch mode all of Fall working on my VR Dungeon Crawler and wanted a coding break, so I'm looking into opening an Escape Room and spending time with my twins to cool my brain off a while and figure out where I want to move the project forward.

The other hard part of game dev is getting things that you can't do / don't have. This takes talented personnel or money. It's crazy how easy it is when you have either of those things, but also crazy difficult to have either.

Most of the "cost" of gamedev comes from personnel. Indie devs like me work for $0/hour and instead get a revenue share of the game they release, so our ultimate hourly rate is a variable and often very low. If someone said they wanted a Smash Brothers type game with online capability, 3D models, and for it to feel like Melee, I could put something like that together with 3 people and $50,000 - $80,000.

The money seems really small for gamedev, but that's because the 3 people would be working long hours for $0/hour. Having a 3D modeler + animator who is obsessive and takes a craftsmanship approach, a programmer that focuses on the online portion, and a programmer/designer that focuses on literally everything else could finish a game like this with that small budget in about 2 years or so, with a prototype in about 4 months, assuming they all worked on it on a semi-regular daily basis.


Smash is a pretty "big" game.

If you pare that down and instead say "I want to make a platformer like Super Metroid", that takes even less. Maybe $5,000 and two people -- a spriter and a programmer/designer.

Think about what's "in" Super Metroid from a programming perspective.

Want a character that can walk around, jump, and shoot? Less than a day.
Functioning camera system? Done in five minutes, they've already been built a thousand times.
Option to use power bomb, missile, and other projectiles? Maybe two hours at most.
Grappling hook? If you've done it before, an hour or two. Otherwise less than a day.
Saving? Less than a day.
Player health system? Less than a day.
Enemy health system? Less than a day.
Doors that open only if hit with certain attacks? Minutes.
Special abilities like the dash boots and super jump, etc.? A day or two, if not less depending on the number of them.

It goes on like that, but nothing in SMetroid is actually complicated. You can build it pretty fast.

The issue is getting the graphical content and making it "fun", which takes a lot of time, and making sure all those systems interact properly.

Just takes a lot of time.



So if you want to make games, start building. Start with "roll a ball" tutorial in Unity and move from there.
 

#HBC | ZoZo

Shocodoro Blagshidect
Joined
Jan 12, 2009
Messages
9,800
Location
Land of Nether
Not to mention, the last 10% is as much work as the first 90. Plan for 200% of what you initially think the project will cost - though this applies less so to solo projects.
 

BarDulL

Town Vampire
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Messages
5,211
Location
Austin, Texas
I'm working 50~ hours a week, trying to study for the CPA exam, among other things, so that's my excuse.

Ok, ok, I'm also busy flying around in my giant floating castle, searching for Laundry high and low whom has mysteriously disappeared into the mists of DGamesia.

Someday, I will return with Laundry and glorious treasures from the mainland.
 
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Spak

Hero of Neverwinter
Joined
Jul 30, 2014
Messages
4,033
Location
Earth
I got a girlfriend and am doing a bunch of collegey stuff, so that's my excuse. I'm still down for a game if anything ever fills, and am anxiously waiting for Laundry to return (hopefully washed).
 

ranmaru

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 10, 2008
Messages
13,296
Switch FC
SW-0654 7794 0698
I think the videogame thing I will put on hold for other goals right now. My goals right now:

Musician
Writer
Blackbelt in Yongmudo Hapkido
Learn to draw and get ok at it

I think those will help me in leading up to making a videogame in the future, though.

Also applying for jobs and stuff. I'm glad we are not playing mafia and stuff, I'd rather focus on me. I was in way too many mafia games.
 

Spak

Hero of Neverwinter
Joined
Jul 30, 2014
Messages
4,033
Location
Earth
Yeah, but it's just kinda sad that DGames is dying (or rather already dead). I've only been here about a year and three fourths and heard that it was much more active before I came, but I've grown to love this place.
 
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#HBC | Gorf

toastin walrus since 4/20 maaaan
Joined
Apr 10, 2009
Messages
6,563
Location
Jacksonville, FL
a quote from me texting marshy:

"dawg straight up im so happy i had mafia when i did. it taught me a lot about analysis and interpreting things"

marshy to me:

"dude **** yeah it did. it made my mind sharper and more logical and able to make decisions."

the influence mafia and dgames had on my life is something i cant ever forget, and tbh it shouldve died a longass time ago cuz this place is old as ****. we gotta dig up eor and find out when he decided to make it
 

BarDulL

Town Vampire
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Messages
5,211
Location
Austin, Texas
It was a fun run, boys. I came sorta midway, but I appreciated it regardless of the sociopolitics, hubris, the every-so-often eating of my own words, getting bippity bopped, bopping the would-be boppers, inherent trash talk, and so on.

Most importantly though, and I hate to admit it, but Gorf showed me that women should never be put on a pedestal, and more often than not, should be held with disdain. Screw women. Screw feminism.
 

Overswarm

is laughing at you
Joined
May 4, 2005
Messages
21,181
Thanks guys :)

Man, I miss dgames, even if I was always the one getting BODIED lmfao
DGames dies when we grow and lose time. :(

Also thanks for your retweet for the VR contest I was in -- I ended up getting 2nd by less than 100 votes and no prize for second, but it was a good learning experience.
 

Overswarm

is laughing at you
Joined
May 4, 2005
Messages
21,181
Okay guys.

Let's brainstorm.

DGames is dead... but why? Ultimately, it's a result of the pros failing to outweigh the cons. But what specifically?

My own personal guesses are:
  • Playing DGames no longer adds any significant benefit in comparison to other activities (e.g., spending time with SO, learning a new skill, studying, working, maintaining a house, exercising, etc.)

  • Playing DGames requires too much of a time investment to be properly enjoyed, and time is not as available as it once was

  • Playing DGames has cyclical issues. Things become "common" and unavoidable. You are mafia and make a great play, but your win is tainted because two Town were inactive during the game. You are town and want to make a case, but "DGames culture" can be unassailable -- inactivity isn't scummy because every game has inactives, thus any mafia member could be inactive and have an unassailable alibi. You are town and make a good play and ultimately win the game, but you were killed on N1 and don't really get to play after your initial burst of energy and catching the first mafia member.

  • Playing DGames has random issues. Mario Party is fun because it is mostly random with key skill-based elements. The overall "victory" is weighted heavily towards random and/or simple choices, but your options increase as your skill at the mini-games increase. In this way you can reduce randomness to increase your chances of victory. DGames is similar in that if you are an excellent townie, you can increase the odds of lynching mafia from 3 in 12 (25%) in a 13 man game to 3 in 7 (42%) on day 2 by carefully positioning other players, tracking votes, and lynching one person -- getting the right level of trust allows you to write off up to 4 people, plus one dying, and your odds increase drastically. That said, they're still odds. Given that, even the best players can't peg all 3 mafia on D2 and it's a war of attrition as time goes on... the result being that, ultimately, there's a % chance that the victor was chosen at random. Even if you've got the final mafia member down and there's only one other townie, your chances of success are at 50%. This means that unless there are direct clues to use, you ultimately will get the wrong result 50% of the time in a LYLO situation. That can be very unrewarding.

  • Playing DGames can quickly become overwhelming in a bad way. Even if you have the time, reading large walls of text or appeals to emotion or the like can be exhausting. Similarly, coming back after 3 days to a game with no progress can feel hopeless.

What else am I missing? I'm wondering if DGames could be distilled to a key essence and then made into a more streamlined experience that, ultimately, could still be played asynchronously.
 

Vinylic.

Woke?
Joined
Jul 15, 2010
Messages
15,866
Location
New York, New York
Switch FC
SW-5214-5959-4787
I really just think this site as a whole is losing activity over time. Facebook, Twitter, Reddit (to an extent), and Discord servers are just taking over by storm. Forums just doesn't look like the fastest way to know what's up to date IMO.

I might be wrong, but I don't frequent this website as much either. A lot of players I know prefer social media over forums. The writers here are doing their best to bring news, and without em, Smashboards might've not lasted long.
 
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#HBC | marshy

wanted for 3rd degree swag
BRoomer
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
3,928
Location
swag
Playing DGames has cyclical issues. Things become "common" and unavoidable. You are mafia and make a great play, but your win is tainted because two Town were inactive during the game. You are town and want to make a case, but "DGames culture" can be unassailable -- inactivity isn't scummy because every game has inactives, thus any mafia member could be inactive and have an unassailable alibi. You are town and make a good play and ultimately win the game, but you were killed on N1 and don't really get to play after your initial burst of energy and catching the first mafia member.
dgames mafia had a lot of irritants. your scummate gets himself killed d1. youre playin hot then die and town fumbles it. you get bingod while making an optimal play. inactivity. the game ends roles are shown and you see imbalances that impacted the outcome. so on and so forth. after repeated exposure to these irritants ive seen most players throw their hands up and step away from mafia for a while if not for good. i call it the salt factor. salt factor + people moving into different life stages/interests + overwhelming feeling you talk about = people bounce its a scientific equation that has been proven repeatedly in labs i tell ya

theres also less ways to get traffic. with the rise of social media hundreds of people who may have stumbled in here otherwise wont cuz smashboards has been replaced with user groups on other sites

ive played mafia offsite and brought a few people with me here and there. ive thought about migrating the whole room elsewhere but that can be complicated and idk how much interest there is in that or if its even doable. and then theres picking the right site. its tricky to integrate with another meta while still retaining the essence that dgames brought to mafia tho i would be down to try it if we found something. another idea is to find an active site that doesnt have mafia then rush people in there start a game and let the community build from there

regardless this room was the **** in its heyday and its nice it can act as a bit of a time capsule from when we were younger and less busy. old games can provide a rich read and some of the plays people made were impressive. its funny how an innocuous forum game can provide a glimpse into someones soul at higher levels of play. there really was some talent and creativity here
 

BarDulL

Town Vampire
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Messages
5,211
Location
Austin, Texas
It was a fun run, boys. I came sorta midway, but I appreciated it regardless of the sociopolitics, hubris, the every-so-often eating of my own words, getting bippity bopped, bopping the would-be boppers, inherent trash talk, and so on.

Most importantly though, and I hate to admit it, but Gorf showed me that women should never be put on a pedestal, and more often than not, should be held with disdain. Screw women. Screw feminism.
In hindsight, I apologize for this bad joke, lmao. Sorry #HBC | Gorf #HBC | Gorf , it was late at night and the troll in me let loose. I am a super troll on a full moon. If it's not cool for me to joke like this with you, lmk.

DGames is dead... but why? Ultimately, it's a result of the pros failing to outweigh the cons. But what specifically?
What else am I missing? I'm wondering if DGames could be distilled to a key essence and then made into a more streamlined experience that, ultimately, could still be played asynchronously.
Edit: I thought over my earlier response to you, and I'm not even sure I'm right about it tbh. I might talk to you about it later via PMs to make my point.
 
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#HBC | FrozeηFlame

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Jul 26, 2005
Messages
2,031
Location
Albuquerque, NM
Sup homies

marshy and I were chattin about this place recently and boy did I experience one hell of a nostalgia bomb. Dgames was such a huge part of my life from like age 15 - 22ish and hearing that activity here is waning really makes me sad =(

not all that surprising though considering what vinynlic points out above. Dgames lasted for as long as it did because it had a strong core community that was able to draw in fresh newcomers at a sustainable pace thanks to what used to be smashboards' natural traffic. With the smash community largely communicating through alternate mediums now for social communication and tournament organization (smash.gg, facebook, reddit, discord, twitter), smashboards is no longer the central smash related hub it used to be. No one is logging in to smashboards daily anymore and scrolling around the front page, and happening upon our cool like forum game pocket of the site. Well, not nearly enough people anyway, and certainly not with anywhere near enough frequency for some of those explorers to jump in and stick.

reviving this place probably isn't realistic, atleast not to how this place was in its golden ages. but hell I'd be down to play some more mafia with the core people who are still around. whether we raid someplace offsite or just get some small games going here, I'm down for whatever. Been wayyyyy too long since I played some mafia with some veteran players
 

KevinM

TB12 TB12 TB12
BRoomer
Joined
Jan 30, 2007
Messages
13,625
Location
Sickboi in the 401
Okay guys.

Let's brainstorm.

DGames is dead... but why? Ultimately, it's a result of the pros failing to outweigh the cons. But what specifically?

My own personal guesses are:
  • Playing DGames no longer adds any significant benefit in comparison to other activities (e.g., spending time with SO, learning a new skill, studying, working, maintaining a house, exercising, etc.)

  • Playing DGames requires too much of a time investment to be properly enjoyed, and time is not as available as it once was

  • Playing DGames has cyclical issues. Things become "common" and unavoidable. You are mafia and make a great play, but your win is tainted because two Town were inactive during the game. You are town and want to make a case, but "DGames culture" can be unassailable -- inactivity isn't scummy because every game has inactives, thus any mafia member could be inactive and have an unassailable alibi. You are town and make a good play and ultimately win the game, but you were killed on N1 and don't really get to play after your initial burst of energy and catching the first mafia member.

  • Playing DGames has random issues. Mario Party is fun because it is mostly random with key skill-based elements. The overall "victory" is weighted heavily towards random and/or simple choices, but your options increase as your skill at the mini-games increase. In this way you can reduce randomness to increase your chances of victory. DGames is similar in that if you are an excellent townie, you can increase the odds of lynching mafia from 3 in 12 (25%) in a 13 man game to 3 in 7 (42%) on day 2 by carefully positioning other players, tracking votes, and lynching one person -- getting the right level of trust allows you to write off up to 4 people, plus one dying, and your odds increase drastically. That said, they're still odds. Given that, even the best players can't peg all 3 mafia on D2 and it's a war of attrition as time goes on... the result being that, ultimately, there's a % chance that the victor was chosen at random. Even if you've got the final mafia member down and there's only one other townie, your chances of success are at 50%. This means that unless there are direct clues to use, you ultimately will get the wrong result 50% of the time in a LYLO situation. That can be very unrewarding.

  • Playing DGames can quickly become overwhelming in a bad way. Even if you have the time, reading large walls of text or appeals to emotion or the like can be exhausting. Similarly, coming back after 3 days to a game with no progress can feel hopeless.

What else am I missing? I'm wondering if DGames could be distilled to a key essence and then made into a more streamlined experience that, ultimately, could still be played asynchronously.
OS I love that your posts about why Mafia died are still longer than 99% of my scum write ups, miss you ya idiot
 
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Overswarm

is laughing at you
Joined
May 4, 2005
Messages
21,181
OS I love that your posts about why Mafia died are still longer than 99% of my scum write ups, miss you ya idiot
It helps to have a typing speed floor of around 100 wpm and an insatiable desire to figure things out
 
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