#HBC | ZoZo
Shocodoro Blagshidect
You betray your country's big shots, but keeping secrets as such I consider betraying not only your humanity but also the people that make up your country.
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- Thread starter Tom
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Of all the people in dGames you have to be the one to confuse "country" with "government" ... son, I'm disappoint.
#HBC | Gorf
toastin walrus since 4/20 maaaan
yo. i mean like honestly governments do dumb things, but like when your job entails maintaining the privacy of ANYTHING, its morally repugnant to go ahead and expose it, especially when the thing youre maintaining privacy for allows you to live the way you live. like its still a privilege to have the opportunity to live how we live.
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
Even if your job description includes the possibility of doing morally repugnant things, then you still have a moral obligation to expose them. "Just following orders" is never a defense for committing terrible crimes or being an accessory to them.
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Maven89
Smash Master
What terrible crimes was Bradley Manning being forced to do, and how did those relate to leaking thousands of diplomatic cables?
#HBC | Dancer
The nicest of the damned.
Ya! Finals are done and I've aced all all of them! Good semester, good stuff (I'm still not going to play mafia).
On the topic of nails: I know it's weird but all of my life I've kept my nails long. Even if it looks gross to society it just feels natural for me. After cutting my nails all activities that require grasping/typing feel awkward to me, although I quickly get use to it.
On the topic of Manning: I don't actually want to talk about this, because it would require research into the nature of what was leaked by Manning to determine rather I think it was moral or not and I'm not THAT interested in the topic. Instead I want to talk about the meta of talking about whistle blowers.
Show of hands, who here actually changes the way they live based off of leaked information? I know I certainly haven't and I'm willing to bet that almost none of you have either. Like, Snowden revealed the fact that the NSA spies on Americans unconstitutionally. Cool, something that we kinda already knew was confirmed. Now what? Did that do anything for anyone? Has a revolution formed? Nope, not really! Why? Because we just don't really care that much. Our life's are too comfortable as they are now for us to really care. It's only when something threatens that comfort that we choose to act.
Think back to net neutrality. Remember all the times that that was a thing? Remember when those greedy and corrupt server providers wanted to put an end to net neutrality, and how pissed their misleading and backhanded arguments made us (stuff like the "fast lane" which supposedly would have resulted from the abolishment of net neutrality)? When that happened, all of us young people collectively stood together to express our rage to the evil internet providers! Many internet petitions were signed indeed!
So why was this issue so successful in getting us all to act? Because, the internet is extremely involved and entangled in all of our life's. Countless hours of entertainment has been extracted from the internet by all of us in one form or another. Having something like the equality of the internet be threatened would simply not do at all.
But whistle blowers? That **** doesn't really effect our life's in any direct way. The fact that the NSA probably has all of my fetishes on file at this point doesn't even upset me. Face it, the only reason we talk about this stuff so often is because it's fun to talk about. There's nothing wrong with that. Lets just stop pretending that rather or not whistle blower x is a hero or a villain really matters to us that much.
On the topic of nails: I know it's weird but all of my life I've kept my nails long. Even if it looks gross to society it just feels natural for me. After cutting my nails all activities that require grasping/typing feel awkward to me, although I quickly get use to it.
On the topic of Manning: I don't actually want to talk about this, because it would require research into the nature of what was leaked by Manning to determine rather I think it was moral or not and I'm not THAT interested in the topic. Instead I want to talk about the meta of talking about whistle blowers.
Show of hands, who here actually changes the way they live based off of leaked information? I know I certainly haven't and I'm willing to bet that almost none of you have either. Like, Snowden revealed the fact that the NSA spies on Americans unconstitutionally. Cool, something that we kinda already knew was confirmed. Now what? Did that do anything for anyone? Has a revolution formed? Nope, not really! Why? Because we just don't really care that much. Our life's are too comfortable as they are now for us to really care. It's only when something threatens that comfort that we choose to act.
Think back to net neutrality. Remember all the times that that was a thing? Remember when those greedy and corrupt server providers wanted to put an end to net neutrality, and how pissed their misleading and backhanded arguments made us (stuff like the "fast lane" which supposedly would have resulted from the abolishment of net neutrality)? When that happened, all of us young people collectively stood together to express our rage to the evil internet providers! Many internet petitions were signed indeed!
So why was this issue so successful in getting us all to act? Because, the internet is extremely involved and entangled in all of our life's. Countless hours of entertainment has been extracted from the internet by all of us in one form or another. Having something like the equality of the internet be threatened would simply not do at all.
But whistle blowers? That **** doesn't really effect our life's in any direct way. The fact that the NSA probably has all of my fetishes on file at this point doesn't even upset me. Face it, the only reason we talk about this stuff so often is because it's fun to talk about. There's nothing wrong with that. Lets just stop pretending that rather or not whistle blower x is a hero or a villain really matters to us that much.
#HBC | Gorf
toastin walrus since 4/20 maaaan
ya know whats a terrible crime? murder. but put on a uniform and be fed a story that the place youre going to has baddies and you got yourself a "war," which has become totally acceptable. shame on governments far and wide for forcing innocent people to murder, but its a price to pay in order to have the PRIVILEGES that the government gives you.
its taking justice into your own hands. its not like theres gonna be some sort of change. the government will still not be perfect, and will continue to do bad things, just like every single successful government to have ever existed before, that exists now, and that will exist in the future. its part of the job description.
#HBC | Dancer
The nicest of the damned.
With that rant out of the way, please do feel free to carry out the conversation. I genuinely do like to read everyone's arguments.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dj_b3QOEFYU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dj_b3QOEFYU
#HBC | Gorf
toastin walrus since 4/20 maaaan
also i swear sword ninja'd me.
#HBC | ZoZo
Shocodoro Blagshidect
i ****ing love speed levitch. did you see the cruise?
Those 'diplomatic cables' contained evidence of various human rights violations of the worst kind. It's kind of important that the global public gets informed when stuff like that happens and it's kind of important that you don't just keep quiet when you know what kind of **** is going on.
Maven89
Smash Master
Please list these human right violations "of the worst kind" that where leaked with the cables
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#HBC | Gorf
toastin walrus since 4/20 maaaan
its naive of anyone to think that people with positions of power dont abuse it. thats why communism doesnt work. there isnt a government in the world that doesnt "abuse" its power. thats not a secret. the difference between america and a country like, idk, switzerland is that the swiss (is it swiss? idk) people in charge of keeping the government secrets are keeping them.
- About 300 cases of torture during the war against Iraq commited by the US army
- Intentional murdering of civilians and journalists in Iraq commited by the US army
- Pretty much everything regarding a certain concentration camp at Guantanamo Bay
The latter alone is a huge can of worms that includes innumerable violations of human rights - torture and arbitrary arrest without trial are just the tip of the iceberg.
Maven89
Smash Master
1. No it didn't? I never heard of this and searched and couldn't find it. A source please
2. You mean that Apache video? Where you hear the guys on the radio thinking the people had weapons and mistaking a mounted camera for an RPG? How is that "deliberate murder"?
3. It's childish for you to call it a concentration camp. Those existed and you pretending Guantanamo is the same is honestly offensive. But again, Guantanimo being horrible was already known. Even the torture was known.
Then there's the millions of other diplomatic cables the guy threw to the wind, including dossier's on foreign leaders and opinions on foreign countries and their leaders that would never be stated publicly. None of those were needed to be released and served to do nothing but embarrass America. Was it necessary for the world to know that America thought the Afghag President was depressed? That they call Russia a "mafia state?" Not at all. That did nothing but weaken American diplomatic relations because information meant to be private was leaked. And in return for this cluster****. what did the public get? Some information it already had? The kid was clearly unstable, I mean he was seen crying in his barracks clutching a gun to his head, and now he decided to be a woman, and he apparently believed his leaks would "change the world". This is not a freedom fighter, this is clinically depressed person lashing out at a system that didn't accept him. And we see now that the military had damn good reason to not accept him. Finding one or two interesting things in the leaks does not make up for the thousands of other diplomatic cables he released. Praise him for some, if you wish, but you have to criticize him for others.
Oh, and to Adumbrodeus about Asasange: First, he fled the country the same day his lawyer was informed he was going to be arrested (http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052748704422204576129703079523420), second, your claim that he asked Sweden to guarantee he wouldn't be extradited to America is false. He never asked that, he only raises the "fear" of it. And even so, he ***** 2 women. You don't get a pass on ****, no matter what the **** you've done. Would you look your daughter in the eye and say "the man who ***** you leaked important information, so I don't think he should be punished for ****** you. In fact, we're now going to praise him"? Because apparently you think that should apply to other people's daughters.
2. You mean that Apache video? Where you hear the guys on the radio thinking the people had weapons and mistaking a mounted camera for an RPG? How is that "deliberate murder"?
3. It's childish for you to call it a concentration camp. Those existed and you pretending Guantanamo is the same is honestly offensive. But again, Guantanimo being horrible was already known. Even the torture was known.
Then there's the millions of other diplomatic cables the guy threw to the wind, including dossier's on foreign leaders and opinions on foreign countries and their leaders that would never be stated publicly. None of those were needed to be released and served to do nothing but embarrass America. Was it necessary for the world to know that America thought the Afghag President was depressed? That they call Russia a "mafia state?" Not at all. That did nothing but weaken American diplomatic relations because information meant to be private was leaked. And in return for this cluster****. what did the public get? Some information it already had? The kid was clearly unstable, I mean he was seen crying in his barracks clutching a gun to his head, and now he decided to be a woman, and he apparently believed his leaks would "change the world". This is not a freedom fighter, this is clinically depressed person lashing out at a system that didn't accept him. And we see now that the military had damn good reason to not accept him. Finding one or two interesting things in the leaks does not make up for the thousands of other diplomatic cables he released. Praise him for some, if you wish, but you have to criticize him for others.
Oh, and to Adumbrodeus about Asasange: First, he fled the country the same day his lawyer was informed he was going to be arrested (http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052748704422204576129703079523420), second, your claim that he asked Sweden to guarantee he wouldn't be extradited to America is false. He never asked that, he only raises the "fear" of it. And even so, he ***** 2 women. You don't get a pass on ****, no matter what the **** you've done. Would you look your daughter in the eye and say "the man who ***** you leaked important information, so I don't think he should be punished for ****** you. In fact, we're now going to praise him"? Because apparently you think that should apply to other people's daughters.
BarDulL
Town Vampire
in general, whistle blowing is important. you'll always hear the argument that if we let the government get too nuts, then we might end up in an orwellian society. whether or not that's true, the NSA having unrestricted access to EVERYTHING that you've done is paramount to an orwellian society's existence and is a huge violation of privacy. then you'll hear people saying "where does it end, what's next? what's the government going to do when it decides that it's ok to dismiss basic rights for the sake of 'national security' and end up taking even more control than it already has? what's going to happen to all our diplomatic ties? are we even going to be safe if this keeps up?" i don't think the government will actually end up getting to that point, but it's a legitimate concern for people to have. people who aren't a little concerned about things like this are pretty naive, especially people residing in the US.
i won't discuss the semantics of whether or not assange, manning, snowden, or other various presumed whistle blowers were in the right. many of them released more information than was actually necessary, but there are times where i feel that they definitely provided a service to the world for providing the info they had at the expense of inadvertent exposure and subsequent weakening diplomatic relations.
an example of this is when snowden revealed that the US had been tapping phones and spying on chinese citizens. like, wow, was that REALLY necessary? the diplomatic footing in that situation was so incredibly awkward. china was just like "so, what do you guys have to say about this?" lol. but i definitely feel that him revealing that our government has been collecting a plethora of information on all of us was important, as seemingly ironic and hypocritical as that seems after complaining about the diplomatic footing the government ended up having with the chinese. naturally we should trust the government and the government should be trusting us, while i feel that it's more sensible for the US government to be wary of individual citizens in foreign countries that may pose threats to our security, because at least then they aren't necessarily betraying anyone's trust or their own policies towards their own citizens. after 9/11, it's sensible for the government to be concerned regarding foreign entities, especially in an ever-evolving world where knowledge is at everyone's fingertips.
i won't discuss the semantics of whether or not assange, manning, snowden, or other various presumed whistle blowers were in the right. many of them released more information than was actually necessary, but there are times where i feel that they definitely provided a service to the world for providing the info they had at the expense of inadvertent exposure and subsequent weakening diplomatic relations.
an example of this is when snowden revealed that the US had been tapping phones and spying on chinese citizens. like, wow, was that REALLY necessary? the diplomatic footing in that situation was so incredibly awkward. china was just like "so, what do you guys have to say about this?" lol. but i definitely feel that him revealing that our government has been collecting a plethora of information on all of us was important, as seemingly ironic and hypocritical as that seems after complaining about the diplomatic footing the government ended up having with the chinese. naturally we should trust the government and the government should be trusting us, while i feel that it's more sensible for the US government to be wary of individual citizens in foreign countries that may pose threats to our security, because at least then they aren't necessarily betraying anyone's trust or their own policies towards their own citizens. after 9/11, it's sensible for the government to be concerned regarding foreign entities, especially in an ever-evolving world where knowledge is at everyone's fingertips.
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adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
Again, their personal lives are somehow relevant, we can agree that manning should've presumably been more judicious with her revelations, but I find it extremely hard to justify saying she's just a traitor based on her having mental health issues presumably stemming from being trans and trans people are generally despised seems a bit much.
The fact is that even the revelations you agreed with would've justified this. What is torture no longer an issue when it's confirmed that it's still happening rather then we merely suspect it?
As far as Assange, again whether or not he's a rapist has no bearing on the value of the service that wikileaks provides as a publisher for leaks. If he's a rapist, well then he's a terrible person and also provided an important service, it does not dimish that value if he's a rapist. But he's right to demand assurances that he won't get extradited to the US regardless of the value of these charges. Amnesty international agrees as well, if he's a rapist he needs to be charged and punished.
But even rapists should not become political prisoners of other countries, that's a perversion of the judicial process and even a rapist deserves asylum for that. If Sweden doesn't intend to do that, regardless of the charge's legitimacy, they should call his bluff.
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#HBC | Nabe
Beneath it all, he had H-cups all along
Guys, I know you're being serious and all,
but is anyone picking up Yomi on Steam tomorrow?
but is anyone picking up Yomi on Steam tomorrow?
Raziek
Charging Limit All Day
I already won a copy of it in the pre-release tournament because I'm currently considered the most consistently threatening player in that game's community. (Even though I got 4th in that particular tourney)
People should play it with Ryker and I. <3
Gova
I'm goin' for it!
What's the point of playing it on Steam instead of the actual website?
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#HBC | Nabe
Beneath it all, he had H-cups all along
Offline bots
4x card resolution
The ability to show Steam friends that you are cool via pop-up notifications when they are trying to play HuniePop
Dooms
KY/KP Joey
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Thank god you're not my steam friend. If you interrupted my HuniePop with Yomi, I'd be hella salty.
#HBC | Nabe
Beneath it all, he had H-cups all along
Right back at you~
#HBC | Joker
Space Marine
- Joined
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I think someone else was talking about this in here recently, but is Fire Emblem Awakening a good game to jump into the series? I've played some of Sacred Stones before, but I didn't finish it and it's my understanding that game has nothing to do with the rest of the series anyway.
Raz, judging by recent tournament history, may be the best player in the game and I am sitting in winner's finals of a large event right now. So yes, I do think I'll be playing the Steam client.
FE:Awakening is a fine game to jump into the series, just don't play Lunatic. The game has no idea how to do a hard mode, but the new gameplay twists are very enjoyable.
It and Sacred Stones are the most "new player friendly" FE games, and I think Awakening is better, so.......
Also, almost none of the games have anything to do with each other. FE7 is a prequel to FE6, but just contains nods to FE6. The entire game is self contained. Ike's second game (Radiant Dawn for the Wii) is a sequel to Path of Radiance (Gamecube) and those games could both stand alone, but play better together. Awakening appears to be set in the same universe as FE1 because they refer to Marth as a legendary hero, but that's the only link. The series is generally like Final Fantasy where every sequel has its own story.
Fandangox
Smash Lord
FE1, FE2, FE3 and FE11 (Awakening) take place in the same world. Although 2 is mostly just very disconnected, from what I have seen.
FE 4 and 5 are the same world.
FE 6 and 7 are the same world. 7 was a prequel so lots of characters from 7 get their backstories explained here (including the main villain) and both games share playable characters and locations.
FE 8 is stand-alone.
9 and 10 Share the same world. Radiant Dawn is a direct sequel from Path of Radiance, and while Path of Radiance works very well stand alone, I'd say RD really doesn't, I'd recommend playing it after PoR. Also while PoR is easy, both PoR and RD have the best level design and strategy components in the series in my opinion. (Out of the ones I have played, at least)
FE7, 8, and 11 are the best entry-level FE's. I didn't feel like awakening was very good as a strategy game, but at least overall its better than 8, I'd recommend playing awakening or 7 first, and then getting into Path of Radiance the GOAT fire emblem.
Apparently 4 is really good too, but I haven't gotten to play that one yet, if you play awakening first, maybe try playing 4 then, cause some mechanics from 4 were re-introduced in awakening.
A character from the first fire emblem directly appears in Awakening and is playable on both, she references events from the first game.
FE 4 and 5 are the same world.
FE 6 and 7 are the same world. 7 was a prequel so lots of characters from 7 get their backstories explained here (including the main villain) and both games share playable characters and locations.
FE 8 is stand-alone.
9 and 10 Share the same world. Radiant Dawn is a direct sequel from Path of Radiance, and while Path of Radiance works very well stand alone, I'd say RD really doesn't, I'd recommend playing it after PoR. Also while PoR is easy, both PoR and RD have the best level design and strategy components in the series in my opinion. (Out of the ones I have played, at least)
FE7, 8, and 11 are the best entry-level FE's. I didn't feel like awakening was very good as a strategy game, but at least overall its better than 8, I'd recommend playing awakening or 7 first, and then getting into Path of Radiance the GOAT fire emblem.
Apparently 4 is really good too, but I haven't gotten to play that one yet, if you play awakening first, maybe try playing 4 then, cause some mechanics from 4 were re-introduced in awakening.
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#HBC | Kary
Fiend of Fire
how can Raz be the best at a game that involves reading people when he's terrible at mafia?
Kappa
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
IMO 4 was the best of the series but tough as nails. 5 was almost as good but even tougher. As far as entry points, I like 7.
#HBC | Dancer
The nicest of the damned.
While we're on the topic of fire emblem, what do you guys think about if? Apparently on lot of people are peeved that they're making two versions of the game. The controversy arises out of a believe that Nintendo is trying to cash in, plus the fact that you have to make your decision a to what kingdom to fight for before you even play the game.
Personally I don't mind paying up for two different games. It has been stated that each game will have almost as much content as awakening, so to me it's just double the fire emblem goodness. One way one could look at it is that if you're not that interested in playing one way or the other, than you only have to buy one game.
I do, however, take issue with the fact that you have to make your decision in the store buying the game rather than in game based off of what you've experienced thus far. I mean it doesn't bother me too greatly but I can definitely see why other people are angry about it.
p.s. totally going black kingdom first run through.
Personally I don't mind paying up for two different games. It has been stated that each game will have almost as much content as awakening, so to me it's just double the fire emblem goodness. One way one could look at it is that if you're not that interested in playing one way or the other, than you only have to buy one game.
I do, however, take issue with the fact that you have to make your decision in the store buying the game rather than in game based off of what you've experienced thus far. I mean it doesn't bother me too greatly but I can definitely see why other people are angry about it.
p.s. totally going black kingdom first run through.
#HBC | Gorf
toastin walrus since 4/20 maaaan
whys it gotta be black
Which of you two Floridians posting above me are going to come see me in Disney World at some point between Wed and Tue?
Fandangox
Smash Lord
That could almost happen, I am moving to Brandon this week, which is closer to Orlando than Miami, but I have no car, and I will be busy as soon as I get there anyway.
Fire Emblemier
The Crests are to Blame
From what I know on If is that White Kingdom is much more alike Awakening with a World Map, and not as difficult maps or objectives. While Black Kingdom will have no World map and be like the other games in the series with the other map objectives returning.
Dooms
KY/KP Joey
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I thought they were making DLC that would include the other game's story line + a 3rd one? Or was that just a rumor?
#HBC | Dancer
The nicest of the damned.
You'll be here the 13th - 19th? I have Thursday and Friday off, so if your down to clown with a nerd than I'm game on either of those dates. Gorf should come and we can have a hick fest.
#HBC | Dancer
The nicest of the damned.
This is true, but I don't think any details have been released on how they're going to release the game in America. If this is an option then of course I'll take it, otherwise I'll be going with Nohr (at first).