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Circus · May 30, 2014

#HBC | Acrostic
All I said was that the sentiment of pushing past someone else's hesitation in order to "seal the deal" is a really scary sentiment. It is the kind of sentiment that feeds the idea that women are video games, and inputting the correct code will yield a result desirable for the player. Even Ran laments not kissing some girl at a specific time, in a specific place, as if he dropped a combo or something. Xonar decided to take it farther.

You do not need to have confidence to push past someone's hesitation. If you are picking up vibes of hesitation, on any human being, the correct response is to pause, reflect, and preferably inquire. Not to act anyway.

Edit: in case anyone's curious "Acro" is another smashboards member entirely.

#HBC | Acrostic · May 30, 2014

Ranmaru, Circus isn't talking about dating as a one to one thing. He's addressing male-female relationships as issues of gender empowerment.

#HBC | Gorf · May 30, 2014

:|

Holding myself back because having an opinion that isn't "non white straight males should be coddled to no end" is infraction worthy so it seems.

ranmaru · May 30, 2014

Circus said:
@ #HBC | Acrostic

#HBC | Acrostic

Circus · May 30, 2014

Basic respect of bodily integrity ± coddling

ranmaru · May 30, 2014

I'll consider what you said though, because this last girl wasn't hesitant, and she let me kiss her once before, so I knew she was into me (physically), just was uncomfortable with me hesitating.

I'm not a douche, I do consider if she wants to proceed any further or not and slow down if I have to

#HBC | ZoZo · May 30, 2014

Circus said:
It is the kind of sentiment that feeds the idea that women are video games, and inputting the correct code will yield a result desirable for the player.

This is bull**** - you're oversimplifying a complex situation blabla

#HBC | Gorf · May 30, 2014

I lied.

Circus said:
That much of society considers there to be a distinction between "waiting until you hear no" and "rapist" is exactly the problem.

Dafuq are you going to do if somebody doesn't voice their opinions? Hope for the best! Believe it or not that's called being brave and being noble and the fact that you think that's a problem is a problem.

Who ****in said that this is a deal about entitlement? It's a matter of having the courage to make yourself vulnerable, and a woman is entirely entitled to feel however she wants to about what you just did. A woman should also feel entitled to do what she feels needs to be done to get what she wants done. But women feel that THE MAN NEEDS TO MAKE THE FIRST STEP so that's unfortunately what we gotta do. Watchu gotta say about that Mr. Woman's Man? That you don't think it should be that way? Neither do I! Tell your woman friends to start feeling entitled to making a first move then! There's nothing wrong with it if it's done respectfully and with good taste!

ranmaru · May 30, 2014

Acrostic said:
Ranmaru, Circus isn't talking about dating as a one to one thing. He's addressing male-female relationships as issues of gender empowerment.

I admit I don't totally get it but I think both genders have to be considered with this. I mean not just how we act but how girls expect us to act, or just letting us act that way in the first place.

I impose a rule that any girl state that she likes a man being aggressive or a man asking her about how she feels before proceeding that way we can tell if she likes it safe or aggressive AT ALL TIMES

#HBC | Gorf · May 30, 2014

Circus said:
Basic respect of bodily integrity ± coddling

You are what is wrong with any sort of progressive movement if you REEEEEALLY think you're making a point of respect of bodily integrity and should seriously reconsider your moral views. You have the right mindset. But your views are all sorts of radical and you may as well be Hitler.

Circus · May 30, 2014

Ryker said:
I will not be baited into this discussion again. I will keep this family together, for Kary's sake.

Circus · May 30, 2014

Gorf said:
You are what is wrong with any sort of progressive movement if you REEEEEALLY think you're making a point of respect of bodily integrity and should seriously reconsider your moral views. You have the right mindset. But your views are all sorts of radical and you may as well be Hitler.

My ****ing god, Gorf.

Xivii · May 30, 2014

Ran when you changin your avatar. Horohoro so we can shaman

Circus · May 30, 2014

If you're wondering why you get infracted so much, it's not because your opinion differs from mine. Lots of people's opinions differ from mine. I imagine the mods' opinions often differ from mine.

It's because you say inflammatory **** like that.

#HBC | Acrostic · May 30, 2014

Circus said:
@Acro:
All I said was that the sentiment of pushing past someone else's hesitation in order to "seal the deal" is a really scary sentiment. It is the kind of sentiment that feeds the idea that women are video games, and inputting the correct code will yield a result to desirable for the player. Even Ran laments not kissing some girl at a specific time, in a specific place, as if he dropped a combo or something.

You do not need have confidence to push bast someone's hesitation. If you are picking up vibes of hesitation, on any human being, the correct response is to pause, reflect, and preferably inquire. Not to act anyway.

I don't know how you could interpret it as scary since the context of a girl being hesitant is a very ambiguous situation. I can understand why you issued your comment if you presumed a situation where a girl had put a serious commitment into being unsure and shared that with the man and he chose to disrespect that solidarity by assaulting her. However, knowing Xonar I know he was referring to the social trending behavior of females being the ones who 'receive' feelings of men and hence play the part of being unsure and wishy washy with committing to the relationship since the gender stereotype is that the male courts the female with the initiative via asking her out on a date and courting her on a long and expensive commitment that is mutually understood.

I also understand your stance behind the idea that women shouldn't be something that's won over. I understand that a big stimulus behind securing a girlfriend is the idea that she's yours and becomes comparative to not just owning a piece of exotic furniture, but winning a coveted trophy and having exclusive interactive privileges with it. Ranmaru wasn't regretting not kissing the girl, but the girl's reactions to having been kissed at what she gauged was the inappropriate time. Again Ranmaru's individual situation could potentially involve so many factors that aren't black and white that it's impossible to draw a comparison to it as a Scott Pilgrim analogy.

I believe that ideas like hesitation, confidence, and inquisition are terms that are too broad to make definitive statements or assumptions in a broader context. I believe that in order to use singular statements as arguments for social stigmas and gender inequality, there should be a strong push to solidify that there is understanding on the situations themselves before we use them as examples of social inequality and discrimination.

ranmaru · May 30, 2014

@

#HBC | Acrostic :

Correction, being not kissed. I kissed her before, she even said "why haven't we kissed yet". I mean the time in the elevator, I hesitated because I was thinking "nah" and so, no kiss. That is why Circus mentioned the "ran even felt like he dropped a combo"

#HBC | Acrostic · May 30, 2014

Ranmaru said:
@ #HBC | Acrostic : Correction, being not kissed. I kissed her before, she even said "why haven't we kissed yet". I mean the time in the elevator, I hesitated because I was thinking "nah" and so, no kiss. That is why Circus mentioned the "ran even felt like he dropped a combo"

Hmm. Can you recap one more time.

ranmaru · May 30, 2014

Yes. We were eating dinner, and then had ice cream, and she was wondering why we haven't kissed yet. So I then kissed her later that day. Next time we meet at school and we are in this elevator for a short time, I play it safe and don't kiss there. Then she's not interested. *Shrug*

ranmaru · May 30, 2014

Zack Fair said:
Ran when you changin your avatar. Horohoro so we can shaman

I got you bro

#HBC | Acrostic · May 30, 2014

Ranmaru said:
Yes. We were eating dinner, and then had ice cream, and she was wondering why we haven't kissed yet. So I then kissed her later that day. Next time we meet at school and we are in this elevator for a short time, I play it safe and don't kiss there. Then she's not interested. *Shrug*

Do you understand why you feel regret. Or do you even feel regret.

#HBC | Acrostic · May 30, 2014

Ranmaru said:
#HBC | Acrostic

I lol'd when I realized that clicking on this led to my profile popping up.

#HBC | Gorf · May 30, 2014

Circus said:
If you're wondering why you get infracted so much, it's not because your opinion differs from mine. Lots of people's opinions differ from mine. I imagine the mods' opinions often differ from mine.

It's because you say inflammatory **** like that.

Mfw you actually think you're of the unpopular opinion. Look outside. It's 2014. Everyone and your mother agrees with the fact that equality is necessary in our world and that humanity spans across all different orientation. Those who feel otherwise are bigots and crazy conservative types. Do you not ****ing get that change takes time and that, if being mad at the law is your gripe, that things take time?

The point of me saying you may as well be hitler is that you're SO ****ing radical it's not even funny. You need a wake up call, my friend. Society isn't nearly as damaged as you feel it is and your answers aren't ALWAYS right. Good direction. Far off answers. I went to an art school so I've dealt with Circus' for four years. The fact is humanity isn't evil, my friend. Evil is rare. We hear about it so much more than good things cuz being good isn't an exciting story. Murder is an exciting story. ****. Discrimination. Hate. Drug crime. All way more entertaining to the public eye. Just because we want to pursue a kiss with a girl doesn't mean we're on the verge of ****. We also don't have to talk about it cuz people like excitement, and it's exciting to be swept off your feet. Talking about it isn't exciting if you're looking for fun. But explaining yourself is absolutely the right thing if you feel the need to do it. Going past that is wrong. But the body isn't as sacred as devout Catholics will have you believe, and we're not terrible people for not thinking so.

ranmaru · May 30, 2014

Yes because I don't really know if that was what sunk me. I wanted her. I think I failed so I regret not doing it right. You know. Adapting to what a girl wants. Sheesh.

#HBC | ZoZo · May 30, 2014

i am considering hiring acro as a xonar translator

#esllife

#HBC | FrozeηFlame · May 30, 2014

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO1ifNaNABY&feature=kp

I'll just leave this here.

And regardless of where you stand on this whole "male entitlement" issue, anyone who thinks that men aren't expected to make the first move if they ever want a chance of escalating a relationship they have with a women from a platonic one to a sexual one is ****ing delusional. You're also ****ing delusional if you think going up to a girl and asking for her explicit permission to escalate intimate contact each and every step of the way is actually going to result in that girl wanting to be intimate with you.

In an ideal world where people hook up for purely rational reasons that might work. But we don't live in that world, and unfortunately this incredibly irrational, subconscious thing called attraction dictates whether or not people are going to be interested in a sexual relationship with another person. If you aren't attractive to someone, chances are they aren't going to be intimate with you. Guess what almost any girl you ask will say is one of their top criteria for finding a man attractive? Confidence. Guess what type of behavior instantly signals to a woman that you aren't confident and thus immediately causes your attractiveness to plummet to a woman? Asking for permission to make any sort of sexually charged contact. There's a reason why sexually aggressive men tend to be rewarded for their behavior with reciprocal sexual interest. Am I saying there's nothing wrong with that? No. Am I saying that there's no limit to how sexually aggressive and forward a man should be? Absolutely not. What I am saying though, is that if women really didn't want men to act that way, they wouldn't hook up with men that do. But the numbers don't lie. Women reward that behavior all the ****ing time.

Now I'm not trying to say that you should never ask for permission to do anything sexual with a girl. In fact, there are many types of sexual contact that you should probably (and some you absolutely ought to, or legally must) ask for her permission before you initiate. But let's not sit here and pretend like it isn't true that a lot of the behavior that people scream about as indicative of "****/entitlement culture that is perpetuated by men" isn't actually encouraged by the manner in which a significant portion of women select who to take to bed with them and who not to.

ohboyherewego.jpg

Kantrip · May 30, 2014

In the most unnecessarily aggressive way, Gorf has a point.

And the FF ninja says it better

Xivii · May 30, 2014

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...5349025193.726655.143006940192&type=1&theater

Circus · May 30, 2014

Gorf, in the spirit of keeping to the Ryker post I quoted before, I will not confront you on the gobs of ridiculous **** in your posts. All I will say is this: If you wonder why I think I have the unpopular opinion here, despite society's decrying of extremes like **** and murder, and general consensus that people like the idea of equality in the abstract, just look at this thread and point to all of the people rabidly agreeing with me (hint: the number you find should be quite low).

My argument was never about how some people just hate equality or anything dumb like that. My argument is that despite all sides recognizing that the scale is imbalanced, one side of the scale seems to be profoundly confused about how many things are actually weighing the other side down, and what they are. That you think the problem starts with women, and that it is up to them to correct the balance, and you are responsible for none of it, is a problem.

The idea that some men have it in their head that the best thing to do about a women's hesitance when it comes to intimacy is confidently ignore it, is the very same idea that cause women to keep their eyes on their drinks while they're at bars, and keep their keys between their fingers when they walk to their car at night.

#HBC | ZoZo · May 30, 2014

Circus said:
The idea that some men have it in their head that the best thing to do about a women's hesitance when it comes to intimacy is confidently ignore it, is the very same idea that cause women to keep their eyes on their drinks while they're at bars, and keep their keys between their fingers when they walk to their car at night.

Circus · May 30, 2014

Xonar said:

#HBC | ZoZo · May 30, 2014

nvm i shouldnt troll

ranmaru · May 30, 2014

I think we are trained to think that way Circus. It's happened with another girl before. I don't know if she liked me or not either.

Anyways. I think sure we can be part of the problem but I think girls are too. Girls force that situation on other girls, methinks. I just recognize that it is a problem but I am probably powerless to help turn it around and simply cave to the norms because I want it.

I'm saying that I would be ok with RISKING IT ALL by opening with a kiss (when I THINK the time is right) and she'll slap me if she didn't want it. Then with much respect I'll back away. Or should I say "May I kiss you my lady?" (oh hey I did say this once before lol) I will be honest and say I won't say that because I fear she'll slap me with the 'oh u corny'

I'd rather risk it all then not know after the fact. It's stressful bro. but not with sex tho. I would take it slow unless she was cool with it.

I will say if saying that is safe and can grant me a kiss without making the girl go 'ugh' then sure I'm fine with doing that. just let me know damn it

Circus · May 30, 2014

I like you, Ran.

Zen, there are very few ways for me to interpret what you're doing right now that don't involve you being a sarcastic asshole.

ranmaru · May 30, 2014

Yeah man it's all just a game and I never implemented it. I'm just letting it play because I want to win.

#HBC | Gorf · May 30, 2014

Dude e cigarettes are THE BOMB

ranmaru · May 30, 2014

Rake and Joey throwing me under the bus there while not even being present in thread. You scumbags.

Xivii · May 30, 2014

Ranmaru said:
Rake and Joey throwing me under the bus there while not even being present in thread. You scumbags.

That was me, Ran. The passwords were really easy to guess.

Xivii · May 30, 2014

Me = 21
Bro = 18

Waitress to Me: What can I get for you, hun?
Waitress to Bro: What can I get for you, sir?

Waitress like 25. Happens every time :[

BSL · May 30, 2014

#SheWantsTheD

#HBC | Gorf · May 30, 2014

nvm i shouldn't troll

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