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[#HBC | Joker]

Yea I hated Tales 2, I couldn't even finish it. Was supreme butt.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Nah man, Estelle is basically the same character as Collette, with less face planting. I get that they tried to make her different, but they did not succeed. There's a lot of things about her that just feel completely unfinished. Like, they make it seem like there's some romantic interest between her and Flynn, or between her and Yuri. Unlike most other Tales games there is no system in place to explore either of those relationships, and it disappears completely less than halfway through the game and is never explored. What we're left with, is a character who is ignorant of the world, and needs things explained to her all the time. She's a lot less grating than Collette, but her role in the story, and social role in the group is pretty much identical. She's a moral compass, who doesn't know any better.

The "sheltered" description applies to Luke from Abyss as well, but if you play the game you'll find that even though he's not "stupid", just "ignorant", every single other character treats him like he's ******** the whole first half of the game. Then when they stop treating him like a dumb monkey, and give him some actual responsibility, you figure out that he actually is kinda stupid. He's a pretty irritating "main character", but not everyone can be as awesome as Yuri.

Yeah but Estelle also explains things to other characters yo!

Which Collete does to . . .

Yeah okay, fair enough.

But I'm interested in how you call collete and estelle "moral compasses who don't know any better." I mean, they are definitely moral compasses, but what makes it so that they are the ones that don't know any better? If you ask me, it's the world that doesn't know any better.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

 

[#HBC | Joker]

Yeah but Estelle also explains things to other characters yo!

Which Collete does to . . .

Yeah okay, fair enough.

But I'm interested in how you call collete and estelle "moral compasses who don't know any better." I mean, they are definitely moral compasses, but what makes it so that they are the ones that don't know any better? If you ask me, it's the world that doesn't know any better.

perhaps "naive" is a better word

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Naive is better. Though it's more so she isn't dumb, Estelle isn't dumb at all it's just she has been locked int a castle since birth so she knows nothing of the outside world.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

There's a cute sadist?

Maybe I need to play this game.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Next to Richter she is my favorite character in that game.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

That Hunter x Hunter.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Boo! Shame on you! It piggybacks off of the characters from Symphonia while limiting the character growth that the Tales series is known for. I could not stand either of the protagonists and the monster capture system belongs in Pokemon, not Tales.

hey the monster capture system was way cool
only reason i put as much time into that game as i did ;-;
had so many op critters
was fun

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Bull****. I don't want to have some stupid looking critter when I could have, ya know, a character with emotions that the game acknowledges the existence of.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Oh yeah, I'm not saying it was a proper replacement for characters, just saying that the monsters and everything around it greatly entertained me.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Then you are a simpleton.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Enjoying simple things doesn't make me a simpleton. Sorry boo.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Enjoying simple things doesn't make me a simpleton. Sorry boo.

oh snap

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

WARNING UNPOPULAR OPINION AHEAD

I like Tales of Symphonia: Dawn of The New World.

Emil is a ****ty character but the combat was satisfying as ever, and it ties into the first Symphonia game so it makes up for it anyways. I found the actual story was handled..okayish, but the plot twist was executed well enough where I didn't see it coming, and I felt like it was actually pretty clever. I found myself laughing in a not mocking manner at a lot of the dialogue too, especially the extra character interactions. Emil even gets somewhat better as the game goes on, and the only gripes I can really think of is that you can't level the Symphonia characters and it's still not as strong as the first symphonia overall.

I played it just over halfway, enjoyed it for the most part but didn't care enough to complete it. But I bet if you play them closely for the first time (i.e. PS3), it would be a rewarding experience rather than feeling like a step down. I definitely fully enjoyed pieces of it.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

fire emblem awakening is sooo gooodd

when i don't lose a unit and have to restart the whole mission and bookmarks don't work!

 

[BSL]

Enjoying simple things doesn't make me a simpleton. Sorry boo.

Wouldn't that make Ryker a simpleton for liking you

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Unsure if you're supporting me or insulting me. Too late to worry about it.

 

[BSL]

Unsure if you're supporting me or insulting me. Too late to worry about it.

Merely calling you a hypocrite if you are correct, not passing judgment on your statement.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Go to bed you lying ****head.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Merely calling you a hypocrite if you are correct, not passing judgment on your statement.

Spoiler

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

fire emblem awakening is sooo gooodd

when i don't lose a unit and have to restart the whole mission and bookmarks don't work!

get gud kid

 

[Raziek]

fire emblem awakening is sooo gooodd

when i don't lose a unit and have to restart the whole mission and bookmarks don't work!

Bookmarks are there to save and resume from if you need to temporarily stop playing . They aren't an "I ****ed up" crutch.

Only FE10 normal has those. (Battle Saves)

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I didn't like the battle safe feature in FF10.

Keep it old school so people can't be reckless.

 

[BSL]

Go to bed you lying ****head.

??????????

 

[Circus]

??????????

yeah same

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Yea I don't play fire emblem b/c of that ****. Do not enjoy playing a mission for like 30 minutes only to lose a unit because I was one square out of place or something.

If I didn't care about my units, it wouldn't really be a big deal.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I make Fe runs where I refuse to restart if someone dies.

Makes me more aware and conscious when I respect the lives of my units.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

Yea I don't play fire emblem b/c of that ****. Do not enjoy playing a mission for like 30 minutes only to lose a unit because I was one square out of place or something. If I didn't care about my units, it wouldn't really be a big deal.

That's the point.

Spoiler

When it comes to strategy games, I've always been under the impression that permanent unit death is an important mechanic for establishing continuity between the game play and the story. Strategy and tactical games mostly occur in a stage of war. These settings are inhumane, unforgiving, and unjust to everyone involved. Simply resetting a battle where you've lost your favorite character sorts it into a sort of short term memory, you learn from the mistake. However, winning the battle with some of your closest character lost parallels the sentiment of war. It allows me as a player to tap into those story scenes where they feel the fatigue and disillusionment over the endless fighting and the people they've lost. If I just reset over and over and over until every battle ended with none of my units dying then I would feel indifferent and distant. I worked hard so that my units wouldn't die and yet they are STILL depressed. Losing units is integral to immersion and integral towards the player understanding the character's story. Dissonance between game play and story is indicative of the game failing to engage the player as a video game. If I wanted to read a story I'd read a book, if I wanted fast paced game play then I would play a multiplayer FPS/mafia, however marriage between both elements is one metric separating meaningful games from the profit driven cash cows.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

@ #HBC | ѕoup

JJBA Stardust is pretty awesome btw.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Such a meh OP compared to the older ones tho

Good ED tho

 

[#HBC | Kary]

That's the point.

Yeah you're probably right.

What I meant was something more like;

my problem is that I don't like losing a unit regardless of how much I actually care about the unit. Hell, I don't like missing an item either.

 

[Circus]

I make Fe runs where I refuse to restart if someone dies.

Makes me more aware and conscious when I respect the lives of my units.

Have done this before. Never on first play through because letting a character die would distract me with an unanswered "what if?" for the rest of the game, but it's an interesting challenge in subsequent runs.

I can relate to the frustration Kary describes though. I remember doing a legit perma-death run in Awakening in which I had pretty much taken every measure possible to keep my units safe while keeping up pressure on my enemy, only to have one of the last enemies get a lethal crit on Gaius (****ing Gaius, you guys!). The game is completely built on probability, and you know that going in. You know that a "1" is not "0," so things like that can happen. But when it does, it feels unfair. No matter how many clutch Sols or Lethality's you may have lucked into yourself.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Idk, I guess if I set myself a rule that was something like, no more than one unit death per stage, or I have to keep a certain number of units alive, maybe I'd enjoy it a lot more. I'm just a lot more used to RPG style systems where you get loot upon loot upon loot.

 

[Circus]

Different RPGs focus on different things. In Strategy RPGs, the fun generally comes from the...strategy. And perma-death adds an extra layer to that, which is why it's usually seen as a welcome addition to those games (though I do think offering more casual players the chance to opt out of that is smart). Then it's not just about figuring out how to carve off your opponents HP before they do the same to you, but how to approach intelligently and carefully. Sure, I can smack this one unit around with my pegasus knight, but is she going to get turned into swiss cheese by archers on the next turn? If likely, then I should probably think of something else. Then I do, and the wish fulfillment of being a master tactician is achieved (and it only took ten mulligans, mom!).

It doesn't work for every RPG though. Borderlands and Pokemon spring to mind (player-induced difficulties like Nuzlocke notwithstanding). There's a reason that you don't lose any progress in those games when you're defeated (aside from some of your limitless money and maybe some traveling depending on the last save station/pokemon center you hit). The thesis for those games isn't "the challenge of leading your team through this entire war alive will be very rewarding." It's "blow **** up real good" and "Is that a SHINY?!" respectively.

 

[Fandangox]

That Hunter x Hunter.

where

 

[Gova]

@SRPG thing, I feel like permanent death can also get in the way of actually having a strategy too though, because game(s) becomes unbeatable unless you had kept everyone alive. Which is dumb in my opinion because that means strategies come with the stipulation of keeping all your units alive; anything else is not worth exploring. That's why I prefer Advances Wars over FE anyways. I can actually change my strategy on the fly without having to reset and losing however much time I spent on that chapter.

 

[BSL]

i missed out on backgrounds last time you guys did them

just updated mine:

Spoiler

special thanks to @ Gova for showing me this: http://a.pomf.se/wakmki.swf (warning: volume)

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Well, so far I've made it to chapter 6 with only two or three major casualties (Kellam, Maribelle, Donnel) without any need of guides on hard. I know I complained earlier about having to restart, but I honestly love that aspect of the game. It makes you well aware that if you **** up, you ****ed up. It's trial and error, and eventually, through countless moments of ****ing up, you'll get it right eventually, and even learn from all the other ****-ups and eventually get better at the game. I thought about playing on Beginner but I was already aware of the Fire Emblem games so I didn't want to hinder the experience.

Chapter 5 still remains one of the most stressful game experiences I've ever had to face before.

Current lineup: Avatar Lvl. 11 (Speed buff), Chrom Lvl. 9, Sumia Lvl. 9, Vaike Lvl. 8, Stahl Lvl. 7, Lon'qu a.k.a Crits Mcgee Lvl. 10(?), Lissa Lvl. 9, Virion Lvl. 9, Frederick Lvl. 3

I have Avatar and Chrom at support B and Chrom/Sumia also at B; Lissa and Frederick at C. I find Virion works surprisingly well with Avatar (Support B) and I'm amused by their support interactions so far. Everyone else is a unsociable prick and refuses to interact despite me pairing them like 5 times now (LOOKING AT YOU VAIKE AND STAHL)

edit: Levels aren't exact because I don't have my 3ds on me and are just a guesstimate from fuzzy memory of staying up until 2 am

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Well, so far I've made it to chapter 6 with only two or three major casualties (Kellam, Maribelle, Donnel) without any need of guides on hard. I know I complained earlier about having to restart, but I honestly love that aspect of the game. It makes you well aware that if you **** up, you ****ed up. It's trial and error, and eventually, through countless moments of ****ing up, you'll get it right eventually, and even learn from all the other ****-ups and eventually get better at the game. I thought about playing on Beginner but I was already aware of the Fire Emblem games so I didn't want to hinder the experience.

Chapter 5 still remains one of the most stressful game experiences I've ever had to face before.

Current lineup: Avatar Lvl. 11 (Speed buff), Chrom Lvl. 9, Sumia Lvl. 9, Vaike Lvl. 8, Stahl Lvl. 7, Lon'qu a.k.a Crits Mcgee Lvl. 10(?), Lissa Lvl. 9, Virion Lvl. 9, Frederick Lvl. 3

I have Avatar and Chrom at support B and Chrom/Sumia also at B; Lissa and Frederick at C. I find Virion works surprisingly well with Avatar (Support B) and I'm amused by their support interactions so far. Everyone else is a unsociable prick and refuses to interact despite me pairing them like 5 times now (LOOKING AT YOU VAIKE AND STAHL)

edit: Levels aren't exact because I don't have my 3ds on me and are just a guesstimate from fuzzy memory of staying up until 2 am

Must, resist, urge, to be, elitist, prick

failing, to resist . . .

. . .

sheez u bad

You're only on chapter 6 and you've already let three characters die? I mean, play the game how you want, but you're missing out. Especially on Kellam. Have fun playing the game without a brick wall that can easily block out several choke points. When those chapters that obviously intend for you to camp come up you'll see.

Maribelle isn't as big of a loss because you already had Lissa. However as soon as I got Maribelle I traded Lissa in for the healer with movement.

Donal is a long term investment, that's for sure. He can become an AMAZING character, you just need to supa babby him for a long time to get him there.

Also, chapter five was "one of the most frustrating game experiences you have faced?" get gud kid