Dexter Mafia ~ ...?

[Tandora]

Glyph, I believe you.

VOTE GHEB

 

[Rajam]

parking my vote here for the time being

Vote: Rajam

going through players individually and it seems the only scum pick that Rajam had was WL, and a weak stance at that. he admitted that he wasn't up to date with the game before voting him, don't really like this at all.

ok first, don't fake-bus me. This is terrible weak when you have a guy around who cclaimed a flipped town cop. Srsly this is all? Ryker did something similar D1 but I'll refer to that later

second, the mere fact that you're voting me when Soup just claimed he got a "mafia janitor" result on you... what srsly? you aren't voting Soup? Should I assume then Soupa is telling the truth?

@Gheb: no mass claim. Not D2, because altough we're on a situation of 4 town dead and 1 player missing (Ryker) with no confirmed scum flip, we've: 1 player who cclaimed a flipped town cop, who also claimed having a scum result (on you), and Soupa just claiming he got "mafia janitor" on JTB. The chances of hitting scum toDay are high, and the chance of a disaster like this happening again with 3 townies dying and 1 player going lost next Night should be very unlikely. If D3 we're still in a bad situation, I'll support a mass claim though.

About Ryker: While reading D1 I noted that guy left an ideal situation of a fake-bus on me. He directed my wagon during RVS with very high pressure, and then later he was saying I was town despite I posted little due to being super-behind. He also said I was scum if RR were to flip town, but he gave no reasons at all of that read. I don't like that and I was ready to switch my read on him and charge against. If that guy ever comes back into the game he is probably scum.

toDay: Previous to what Soupa and Glyph claimed I was gonna say that Glyph MUST be lynched, becuse I'd be mad if a guy who cclaimed a flipped-confirmed town cop parroted his way onto living, but, specially now with Soupa (who is one of my strongest town reads due to how much... disconnections with everyone he had D1) claiming janitor on JTB, I'd say we lynch JTB (because janitors are by far the most anti-town role ever... if I learned something in Fire Emblem is how much of a anti-town role a janitor is, probably the most anti-town role), and leave Glyph to a vig or for toMorrow

vote: JTB

Janitors are awful. No flips are the most anti-town thing ever. That said, I'm totally comfortable with Glyph lynch as well because there is no way that someone who cclaimed a confirmed cop is not scum, but janitors must be top priority imo

So far I haven't yet read everything. I was away all day yesterday (went to Paul McCartney concert here in Chile) so I could only advance until page 18. Past that all I know is that Glyph cclaimed Red Ryu; I'm not aware of what else happened after page 18 (40 ppp).

Some reads:
Asdioh: after realizing Ryker is likely scum I don't like Asdioh anymore
Dark Horse: leaning scum. The way he voted RR................... . . . . ... ... .. . .
Gheb: null
J: Among the ones in RR wagon I think he is the most likely to be town
Tandora: mmm null
T-block: null leaning slightly, slightly town.
vVv Choice: Among with Soupamario, into my strongest town reads

Despite I think Soupa & Choice are town, I'm probably not-gonna follow their reads much, since I'm not confident in their scum-reads (sorry)

JTB or Glyph toDay. We can use the Day toDay but please the final lynch MUST BE ONE OF THEM. Do not leave any of them at L-1 yet though or they'll just suicide, "wasting" a Day

Also, @Glyph: even if Gheb flips scum you're not cleared. You cclaimed a cop, you must die

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

@whoever:
Does someone knows what a switch role do?
Am I missing something key from late D1? I was expecting immediate votes and pressure on Glyph since he survived

 

[Rajam]

Probably not a good idea at this point. 1/4 of the players are dead, and they all flipped town. Statistically, we have a pretty good chance of lynching scum toDay, especially if we have solid reads on some of the players. Also, we already have a dead cop and a claimed cop, so I don't see how claiming would help much.

...I was going to say something else but completely forgot what it was. Still waiting on Glyph though!

Oh that's right. Does the fact that there were three kills in one night make you guys consider that two sane cops is a reasonable possibility?

Not me. These last events suggest mafia+SK+vig+abductor, which is already kinda balanced.

Asdioh what's your take on what's happening with Soupamario, JTB, Glyph, Gheb?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I hope I'm being trolled -.-

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

i kinda don't want to respond

 

[Asdioh]

Most of your post has to do with this "janitor" thing. We'll need Soupa to clarify wtf he was talking about with his janitor post, as the way he worded it was very confusing. Like I said, I took it as him assuming there was a janitor, and I responded saying it was more likely a kidnapper.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Asdioh is correct.

 

[JTB]

Soup claimed I was a janitor? Where?

 

[Rajam]

Asdioh is correct.

??? Do you or do you not have a "mafia janitor" result on JTB? If not why were you claiming that?

 

[Rajam]

JTB, Janitor.

Could you clarify this claim?

Do you think or know for a fact this to be true?

http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Janitor

i know it to be a fact.

^^^ Soup was this you claiming JTB is mafia janitor?

 

[JTB]

He wasn't, he was just responding to my post

sematics bro

 

[Rajam]

brspbrsp kljlkjlk Soupa why are you so confusing lol

unvote
vote: Glyph

 

[Rajam]

Glyph, I believe you.

VOTE GHEB

Do you even know how cclaims work? The guy cclaimed a confirmed cop, how can you believe him >_>

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I love how the people who believe me are all perfectly able to point out how Glyph is most likely lying and why he should be lynched. Whereas people who side with Glyph are like "omg I believe him lolz".

Any logical explanation, guys? Both of the people who joined Glyph have offered no actual insight whatsoever other than "welp I believe him deal with it".

 

[Asdioh]

After seeing the way Pizza ended, I am perfectly content assuming that Glyph is the sane Mafia Cop

 

[T-block]

****ing Pizza mafia >_<

I can devote my full attention to this game now. Sorry about not being around.

Glyph needs to die and I don't see how anyone can say otherwise.

More to come later tonight.

 

[Tandora]

Do you even know how cclaims work? The guy cclaimed a confirmed cop, how can you believe him >_>

I have said since the counterclaim that I fully believe it is possible that there are multiple sane cops in this scenario. Glyph's posts are written in a way that is of a man who's trying to convince people of something he completely believes to be true. I don't get a sense of him lying when he says he got a guilty return on Gheb. It is possible that he's a) mafia cop, b) paranoid cop, or c) cop who won't work without La Guerta, but that is not the read I am getting from him.

Glyph had no good reason as scum to counterclaim RR when he did. Glyph as someone who believed he is a sane cop did have a good reason. He's come forward with his read with no ****ing around.

On another topic, where in the hell is J?

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

Tandora I'm honestly relieved that someone gets it

 

[Asdioh]

I have said since the counterclaim that I fully believe it is possible that there are multiple sane cops in this scenario. Glyph's posts are written in a way that is of a man

a big-muscled man

a) mafia cop, b) paranoid cop, or c) cop who won't work without La Guerta, but that is not the read I am getting from him.

But B or C make no sense after he claimed he was sane

And this is a switch: http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Switch
It seems more like a roleblocker that doesn't target a specific player, but a specific role, if they feel like the role could be used in a way that will harm town. Rather than an "enabler"

Glyph had no good reason as scum to counterclaim RR when he did.

I really hope not. I'm debating whether Glyph thought a 1 cop for 1 scum trade was worth it, especially considering his activity has been low, and that there were 3 NKs last night.. though I doubt one scum faction could have known so many town were killed last night, I believe him being sane cop is more likely.

Tandora I'm honestly relieved that someone gets it

do you have any thoughts on any other players? Like, do you think Soup is very likely Gheb's scumbuddy with the way he's been siding with him?

 

[T-block]

@Soup:

It's perfectly justified to think I'm scum at this point, and your point about me really only taking a stance on Rajam is legitimate. However, your 987 also contains a lot of fluff, and you are taking a lot of things and blowing them way out of proportion. 76 was an inside joke, as I had already explained. My first vote on Rajam was to generate reactions, as I had already explained. I'm not going to respond to everything individually... if you want something addressed mention it again. You had a fine point with the Rajam stance - why are you padding your case with useless reaching? It seems like you're trying too hard. This is not OMGUS - I still hold suspicions on you from yesterDay.

Now, about my inactivity... Obviously there isn't much to say. The only excuse I have for my inactivity is that I was focusing more on pizza mafia in its endgame, as I was in a delicate situation. So, that made me fall behind in this game, and I hate large games, so I felt little desire to catch up. Reads and such will come though. Sorry >_<

I'm about to head to bed. More reading tomorrow, and I'll actually start doing stuff.

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

Asdioh I doubt Soup and Gheb are aligned, but certainly think Soup should die

 

[~ Gheb ~]

So why exactly is anybody believing Glyph?

ARE YOU ALL STUPID? Just look at the stuff he posts.

Just giving some examples in my next post.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

by the way Gheb isn't scum, and glyph is doo doo.

This post alone confirms me as town and Gheb as scum

@town: Just ask yourselves, "Do I really want to have the same train of thought as Soup?"

And this is just blatant appeal to ridicule. "Hey this guy is against me let's make fun of him!"

Why exactly are people listening to that guy again?

Gheb, your defenses are purely speculation based off game mechanics.

What? No, that's completely wrong ... in fact, the complete opposite is the case. It's the idea that you are the cop that's speculation because we know that the cop is already dead. And still there are people who *speculate* on you being the cop for no good reason. There's no sound logic behind that period.

Glyph, if I'm going to side with you, can you at least put more effort into the game? :/

Well, why are you "siding" with him then? What reason do you have to believe him in the first place? I love how this answer goes completely unanswered because I know for a fact that there *is* no logical explanation to this. No, there are not two sane cops in this game, I already explained why it's bull.

Do you follow everybody around who just claims to be cop with a guilty? Even though the real cop has already flipped. I mean it's hilarious that you're literally going against 99% odds without any good explanation and without even *considering* that you could be wrong. I know you're not this stupid, so I have literally no other option than to consider you scum.

After seeing the way Pizza ended, I am perfectly content assuming that Glyph is the sane Mafia Cop

What's wrong with you.

Glyph scum
Asdioh / Ryker scum team

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Asdioh I doubt Soup and Gheb are aligned, but certainly think Soup should die

And why should Soup die then? We are not aligned as you say but at the same time you have a guilty on me. If you don't think he's mafia you have no reason to want him that other than - whoooooooooops, right he's going against your dumb plan and he's good sound reasoning on his side.

You on the other hand just completely discredit whatever goes against it to an extent where you suggest that killing a townie is going to be helpful.

Why isn't this guy dead yet?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Sorry Soup but I gotta keep T-Block on the backburner for now.

Choice, feel free to join a Rajam / Soup / Gheb alliance until one of us three flips scum [though I know I'm town and I'm 90% sure all the other people are town too].

Request J & JTB prod

 

[Choice]

I have said since the counterclaim that I fully believe it is possible that there are multiple sane cops in this scenario. Glyph's posts are written in a way that is of a man who's trying to convince people of something he completely believes to be true. I don't get a sense of him lying when he says he got a guilty return on Gheb.

This post really sticks out to me as weird. The bolded text especially. Honestly, what makes me so difficult to believe Glyph's claims is the way he's writing his posts. It just really seems troll-ish. like in the one post where i asked him to clarify what he meant, i didn't think he was serious at all but even that had some convoluted reasoning. I guess i should be a little easier on glyph, especially since i've never played with him before and it seems like i'm just being nitpicky about his writing style.

btw glyph, i don't think i ever heard a comment from you regarding RR's flip. what do you have to say in regards to that?

Choice, feel free to join a Rajam / Soup / Gheb alliance until one of us three flips scum [though I know I'm town and I'm 90% sure all the other people are town too].

I'll have to turn down your alliance offer, and think its weird that you said such a thing, though i figure its more of a joke. Currently i'm believing your side more, but honestly am wary of agreeing with rajam and soup now that you brought up this alliance stuff. Both rajam and soup were looking scummy to me at the end of yesterDay, soup looks better toDay for sure, and rajam's posts today were just kinda funny (sorry rajam, so much effort and all off of a misinterpretation xD). I think it'd be ignorant of me though to name you guilty by association or anything, too, though.

hmmm
Vote: Glyph
at this moment, i don't think there are two sane cops in this game. everything in my mind tells me that it shouldnt be so. maybe i'm being naive/too-new to dgames, but to me its still mafia and i don't see the game being changed so significantly. if we would get a 2nd cop, it would be like a deputy (bang anyone?) or something that's promoted after the first dies. back-up cop sounds way more likely, but that's not the claim that we have.

i also feel like we're assuming scum team is way stronger than probably it is. 3 kills happened and an abduct, but theres plenty of reasons why that might be. one night-kill ability given to scum, indy, and town each doesnt sound like a bad balance to me. our town aligned killing person probably made a poor decision. its only Day 2, things can't be that bad.

@everyone: post what you think happened last night. multiple factions is possible, but i don't really see it necessary.

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

Goddamit...glyph makes a post showing a bunch of "role pm information" (which could easily be fake) and tan belives him.

Think:

You cc'd cop. Other cop claimed flipped town. You're almost certainly going to die, as two confirmed-sane cops is pretty unorthodox. What are you going to do? FAKE A GUILTY . it pulls attention away from you.

Vote: Glyph

Tan/glyph scum

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Ehhhhhhhh, I think you just put him at L-1 [me, Soup, Raj, Choice and DH are voting him and it takes 6/11 to lynch]. Let's not waste this day already with a quicklynch.

Unvote

To avoid a dumbtown quickhammer or a quick self-hammer

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I'll have to turn down your alliance offer, and think its weird that you said such a thing, though i figure its more of a joke. Currently i'm believing your side more, but honestly am wary of agreeing with rajam and soup now that you brought up this alliance stuff. Both rajam and soup were looking scummy to me at the end of yesterDay, soup looks better toDay for sure, and rajam's posts today were just kinda funny (sorry rajam, so much effort and all off of a misinterpretation xD). I think it'd be ignorant of me though to name you guilty by association or anything, too, though.

The "alliance" thing was kind of a joke because obviously I'm not going to turn a blind eye to any of you and I don't expect you to trust each other completely as well. I just like to have you in my "circle of townies" for now until I'm proven wrong to make it easier to find a good direction for the game to take course on.

I think Soup is town ... my points from D1 still remain and I like his points in regards to T-Block. Plus he's the one who considered all options in the Glyph vs Gheb debate and I think he's truly concerned with doing what's best for town.
Rajam wagon has been sheeped pretty hard at the beginning of D1 and I think the "cases" on him were either lackluster like the one from WL or people were just wagoning him in a suspicious manner like T-Block did. I can only see him as scum if we get confirmation that there's more than one mafia faction.

@everyone: post what you think happened last night. multiple factions is possible, but i don't really see it necessary.

I don't see the point of that tbh. If you really feel the need to go deeper into that make sure to avoid hinting at pro-town PRs though.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Dark Horse, do you see any difference between how Tan has been hopping Glyph's claim and Asdioh did? Why does Tan stand out more? Would you be suspicious of Asdioh if it weren't for his mason claim with Ryker?

 

[Tandora]

I am not being naive in my choice to believe Glyph's cop claim is still legit. With as many kills as there were N1, it would be mechanically balanced to have more than one cop.

When I made my mafia game set up, I was told to consider "What's the worst thing that could happen to town?" and make sure town had at least three mislynches to consider the game balanced. I don't know if Chibo had the same instructions as me, but that is about as basic advice you can get for making a set up.

With as bad as town was hit last night, it is within reason to have more than one sane cop. In regards to Choice's question about number of anti-town factions, I believe two. One kill was scum, one was a vig, one was a JOAT, and the abduction is the second anti-town faction. The only way to be certain is to wait for tonight to see how many die.

But I'm not depending only on "good" game mechanics. As I've mentioned several times, you cannot just look at what someone's saying, you have to ask why. RR was probably dead yesterday anyway without a counterclaim. He had been called scummy for too long and we needed a lynch. I've seen a cop claim day 1 and no one counterclaim and he still died.

If Glyph was trolling us, then he would have counterclaimed Ryu and then been inactive today. His activity has actually increased. Gheb being his target is completely believable. Gheb has a rep as an extremely good player and he really wasn't all that active yesterDay. To have investigated him is reasonable.

 

[Rajam]

@Gheb (and whoever wants to respond), excluding yourself, who do you think is the scummiest person alive in RR's wagon? less scummiest in RR's wagon? same questions now but outside RR's wagon

@J, when you made your big 332, you made several questions to WL, nonetheless when he responded he basically told you to shut up (in 375), and you didn't insist. For example you asked why WL "cleared" Ryker by saying Ryker's reaction was genuine. You seeked clarification from WL other times in the same 332; why he considered Tandora scum... were you even following these questions? Why was WL's response acceptable to you?
now, do you think Soupamario is scum?

Asdioh/Glyph/Ryker scum team. If there is a fourth is between Dark Horse, Tandora and JTB, in that order imo

More on Glyph/RR:
RR flipped Town Cop, not "Town Sane Cop" or something like "Town (something) Cop"; just plain "Town Cop". What name did Glyph claimed? Does it fit a cop role? (does Joey Quinn fit cop? I'm not familiar with the show and flavor so I've no idea)

@whoever wondered what reason would Glyph have to cclaim cop:
- less wifomy reason: lynch RR, town cop, and hope somehow to survive later
- more reasons involving wifom slightly: lynch RR and then hope to get NKilled by a vig/sk so mafia could know who is the vig/sk
- reasons a lot more wifomy: "I believe Gyph because the way he worded "
- pure wifom: "insert Tandora and Adioh reasons here"

fact: Glyph cclaimed a guy who flipped plain "Town Cop"
natural conclusion: Glyph must die

 

[~ Gheb ~]

@Gheb (and whoever wants to respond), excluding yourself, who do you think is the scummiest person alive in RR's wagon? less scummiest in RR's wagon? same questions now but outside RR's wagon

What do you mean "excluding yourself"? I am not scummy. Nobody toDay has pointed out how I am supposed to be scummy.

The scummiest players on the RR wagon are Glyph and Ryker as pointed out before. If Ryker was actually killed and janned then replace him with T-Block. I personally am inclined to believe that Ryker is scum though and got hit by an abductor. Who I think is town on this wagon is totally not your business, especially since it's more than clear who i think is town.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

T-Block, mind taking a clear stance on what's happening currently?

 

[T-block]

Yeah, I'm on it. As I said before, Glyph needs to die and I'm surprised anyone is saying otherwise.

Currently reading Tandora and Asdioh for their take on this.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Good boy :3

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

Gheb I like how you use posts I've already stated were jokes and then use them as "evidence" as to why I shouldn't be trusted.

Oh and if you want to maintain that viewpoint, calling out "OMG YOU'RE ALL SO STUPID!!!" is pretty much (as in, exactly) the same thing. Whoops, you just made your own case invalid! Thanks for doing the work for me Gheb, you're a real sweetheart sometimes.

@Town: Its pretty clear that Gheb just wants the cop out of the way and thinks you're all stupid. Is this really the kind of leadership you want? Oh also, the sane cop has a GUILTY on him so we should probably make him dead now.

 

[#HBC | J]

I will be posting when I get home but tbh I haven't read anything since I have been busy since it is finals week and the last week of preformances this weekend. I'm terribly sorry, but no excuses, I should have called V/LA for a couple of days.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Give a solid reason why to keep you alive besides that you are the cop and i'll vote gheb.

 

[T-block]

Tandora's posts are raising a flag for me atm:

I believe we can accept Asdioh and Ryker as town since Ryker has gone missing. Asdioh, what can you tell us about your mason's activities last night?

Not sure what the motivation behind this question is, but it's fishing for information.

Glyph, what kind of result did you get exactly?

1) Guilty
2) Scum
3) Mafia
4) Not town
5) Other - be specific

With the La Guerta flip as switch, I suspect that she's what is called an enabler character. As mentioned, we had one of these in Pikmin mafia where that character could turn powers on and off. It is possible that Doakes is a Paranoid cop who could only work if La guerta used her ability on him.

Glyph, read your pm and tell me some general things about it. If you're not sure you can answer my questions, ask Chibo first.

Do you have any weird fonts, underlined, italicized or bolded sentences in your pm? Did the last line of your pm say your sanity was confirmed like RR's?



I don't approve of this line of thought at all. It simply discredits Soup by brushing off his playstyle rather than hard facts from the game proper. Scum tactic.

No stance here, and a lot of speculation. Asks Glyph about his PM and the nature of his result. Could be setting up to say she believes him without falling under too much suspicion, as if she believes him because of his answers to these question...

Glyph, I believe you.

VOTE GHEB

...and then after hearing his response, which describes, I assume, all role PMs in this game. His confirmed sanity being on the last line he would have learned from RR. How is his response telling at all? Is this really what allowed her to believe him? If not, why not say she believed him right off the bat, instead of throwing out these questions first? Note also that she accuses him of employing a scum tactic (on what was clearly a joke) just before his response, once again suggesting that his description of his role PM is what allowed her to believe him.

I have said since the counterclaim that I fully believe it is possible that there are multiple sane cops in this scenario. Glyph's posts are written in a way that is of a man who's trying to convince people of something he completely believes to be true. I don't get a sense of him lying when he says he got a guilty return on Gheb. It is possible that he's a) mafia cop, b) paranoid cop, or c) cop who won't work without La Guerta, but that is not the read I am getting from him.

Glyph had no good reason as scum to counterclaim RR when he did. Glyph as someone who believed he is a sane cop did have a good reason. He's come forward with his read with no ****ing around.

On another topic, where in the hell is J?

Super weak defense of Glyph. She doesn't see the point of him lying with a guilty return on Gheb? How about a possible Gheb mislynch? Speculates possibilities for Glyph not being sane, but then just says "not the read I am getting".

scumGlyph having no reason to CC is somewhat legitimate, but I certainly wouldn't clear him on that alone.

I am not being naive in my choice to believe Glyph's cop claim is still legit. With as many kills as there were N1, it would be mechanically balanced to have more than one cop.

When I made my mafia game set up, I was told to consider "What's the worst thing that could happen to town?" and make sure town had at least three mislynches to consider the game balanced. I don't know if Chibo had the same instructions as me, but that is about as basic advice you can get for making a set up.

With as bad as town was hit last night, it is within reason to have more than one sane cop. In regards to Choice's question about number of anti-town factions, I believe two. One kill was scum, one was a vig, one was a JOAT, and the abduction is the second anti-town faction. The only way to be certain is to wait for tonight to see how many die.

But I'm not depending only on "good" game mechanics. As I've mentioned several times, you cannot just look at what someone's saying, you have to ask why. RR was probably dead yesterday anyway without a counterclaim. He had been called scummy for too long and we needed a lynch. I've seen a cop claim day 1 and no one counterclaim and he still died.

If Glyph was trolling us, then he would have counterclaimed Ryu and then been inactive today. His activity has actually increased. Gheb being his target is completely believable. Gheb has a rep as an extremely good player and he really wasn't all that active yesterDay. To have investigated him is reasonable.

More talk of balance... I'm focusing on the last paragraph though. "If Glyph was trolling us, then he would have counterclaimed Ryu and then been inactive today". How does she come to that conclusion? Dangerous assumption to say the least. Admits that Gheb is a strong player... someone scum would want to mislynch...