Desyncing stuff. Possibly new. Very useful. Read!

[Hylian]

Ok. So I decided to finally sit down and practice some of the more advanced desynching. Mainly the desynch Kakera does in this video:

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Explained nicely by 00-Zero here:

This is true, but only partially. This desync can still be done, even if both nana and popo shield after the dash dance. The way that works is, popo has released his shield as nana gets the input of an OoS attack. The timing for when you release your shield (when they both shield) and attack is a bit different than just popo shielding and nana attacking.
However, the desync you're trying to do, (dash dance>shield>IB/Blizzard) has to do with inputting the attack, right as popo is releasing his shield. It is brought up at the time he finished his dash dance, which is where you're having trouble. (Idk if you know or not, but you should not be holding the shield when you're inputting nana's attack. It is held slightly longer than you would for a powershield.) then released>immediate IB or blizzard, like right as your finger is retracting from you pressing the shield. She'll be occupying the same space as popo when she does the attack, but just behind him when you actually put it in. A good way to get the timing down of when to put up your shield, is to practice dash dance>shield(at the end of popo's dash dance, when he stops)>A-button. If done correctly, nana does her dash attack as popo is releasing his shield. Shielding too early makes nana roll, pressing A too early makes them both grab. This helps you get down the timing for when you're supposed to shield, so that you can eventually replace nana's dash attack with an ice block or blizzard. Finding out when to shield is easy. The harder part is the timing of when drop the shield. On occasion you'll let it go too early and they'll do the same attack with maybe a frame between the two attacks so it seems simultaneous. In that case, try again, but hold up your shield just a split second longer, but not long enough to make nana roll.

One thing I think that Zero has possibly wrong is that you have to drop the shield to do the desynch. If you watch the video at 33 seconds Kakera does his desynch but instead of dropping his shield stays in it while nana blizzards. If Zero knows more about that or anyone can elaborate that would be great .

Anyways. First of all, this desynch is hard :/. I still don't have it down very well at all though I've only been practicing for about 10 minutes lol. It's certainly achievable though as you can tell by the video where kakera does it on command. I recommend everyone learning it as it allows you to apply pressure in ways we couldn't really before and gives you more spacing options. It's pretty much as useful as my desynch but it's actually learn-able to the point of consistency .

Now, as I was practicing this I discovered some things that may or may not be known, but they certainly aren't used lol.

Normally when you dashdance desynch you have to input 3 dashes before they actually desynch which is why I didn't believe people when they said Kakera was dash dance desynching and looked further into this. As I messed around with Kakeras desynch I discovered you can actually desynch straight into things without even going through the whole shielding process. It's not as easy as just inputting the move, there is a specific timing to it and I haven't quite figured out why it works yet.

It seems like it has something to do with my desynch where you input a move while popo is in his running animation but nana is still in her dashing and only nana will do it but at the same time is almost the same motion as kakeras desynch with the dash dance and I can do it wayyy more consistently than I can do my desynch. I don't know if kakeras desynch works because of this or what it's really interesting to think about.

Ok so basically to do this instant dash dance desynch you do one dash dance(not a fox-trot, a dash dance) and you will sort of see nana skip back to popo twice(that's what it looks like lol). You can just do the DD a few times and you will notice her movements. If you hold down with popo right when you come out of the DD he will crouch and nana will still be running back in her dashing animation and you can just hit b to input a blizzard and only nana will do it and you will have the momentum of the dash dance. It's like my desynch but with a visual cue and it seems like you have a lot more frames to do it because I can blizzard straight out of a dash dance with nana VERY consistently after only about 3-4 minutes of practice.

The IB is a little harder to do out of the dashdance without sheilding because it seems like you're just doing my desynch but out of a dash dance instead of just a dash. You still have more visual cues though and it's easier than my desynch so people should be able to do it consistently.

So it's basically like a sped-up version of Kakeras desynch. I think it's easier than kakeras desynch as well because I still don't have his down >_< lol. I still really want to learn his because the shield will be very useful for characters like diddy when you want to shield the nana and still be desynching an IB where as if you just do my sped up version of his you would be hit by the nana.

Help me crack this guys! I want to understand these desynchs better and how they work because I think they are by far the most useful desynchs we have. They let us apply pressure and keep momentum (pivoting stops momentum). We can move and desynch constantly...just so many options with these desynchs.

I've already been taking my IC's to new levels every tournament, and I want to see others improve as well. Don't let your game stagnate! We have so many options our games shouldn't ever be at a still.


Discuss.

 

[Hylian]

I guess I'll also use this thread to just post useful stuff I notice while practicing.

So some more stuff:

You can do desynched blizzards right off the edge. Just up-b and mash jump so that only popo jumps while nana is still in her invincibility frames from the up-b then blizzard then right after you blizzard start pressing jump again and then have nana blizzard when she jumps off and popo should just be finishing his blizzard. You can also do this with IB from popo into blizzard from nana and it works out well.

When someone is caught in a desynched blizzard you know how if you grab them in the middle or start they will get hit out by the blizzard? Well if you run past them and pivot grab they stay in your grab while being hit by blizzard. Just thought of this while practicing my sped up kakera desynch because it lets you keep the momentum after blizzard from the dash dance so it's easy to combo into grab, but the pop out, so I just started running past them and pivot grabbing and it works perfectly .

That's all for now.

 

[J4pu]

One thing I think that Zero has possibly wrong is that you have to drop the shield to do the desynch. If you watch the video at 33 seconds Kakera does his desynch but instead of dropping his shield stays in it while nana blizzards. If Zero knows more about that or anyone can elaborate that would be great .

I messed around with this desync a lot one day, I noticed that if you do the desync when you start out with Nana right where she wants to be, by your side, you need the shield drop to get the desync to work, but if she starts off a little off from the spot she's always trying to be in (i don't remember the specifics here as so far as what direction she should be from where she wants to be ie. back or forwards, but I do remember that it doesn't have to be a huge difference from where she tries to be) she ends up getting shaken off of popo even more by the dash dance, allowing popo to get out of her input range or her to be in some weird turn-around animation which allows popo to shield and hold it and get nana to use a special attack as long as you are also holding down the special when nana gets into "input range"

my guess is he's just so used to it that he noticed she was a little off and used the holding shield variation on this occasion.

EDIT- oh, also I think when I managed the hold shield desync I would run farther than the shield drop variation, for shield drop I would always start it right after popo ended his initial dash animation after the dash dance, but I seem to recall running a bit farther for the other one, not entirely sure about this though.

It seems like it has something to do with my desynch where you input a move while popo is in his running animation but nana is still in her dashing and only nana will do it but at the same time is almost the same motion as kakeras desynch with the dash dance and I can do it wayyy more consistently than I can do my desynch. I don't know if kakeras desynch works because of this or what it's really interesting to think about.

when I was trying to do your desync I couldn't get it a single time (at least that I can remember) when I started out running forwards, but when my dash went backwards from the direction i was initially facing I found it fairly easy to get only Nana to perform something, I'm guessing this is what you're noticing here

 

[Corrupted]

When he stayed in his shield he just buffered it really early (4 frame window, but timing isn't hard).

'Normally when you dashdance desynch you have to input 3 dashes before they actually desynch ' isn't true unless i'm doing something different.

 

[sirchadakiss18]

Well Im not sure if Im helping but in the vid it looks like he does the desync I do to make Nana Special attack out of a dash dance

Yall know how do this but if you don't:

Foward dash, Back dash, Foward dash (B) Button

Nana attacks first, Popo can Sheild, then Vice Versa.

 

[Hylian]

When he stayed in his shield he just buffered it really early (4 frame window, but timing isn't hard).

'Normally when you dashdance desynch you have to input 3 dashes before they actually desynch ' isn't true unless i'm doing something different.

Actually looking at it again he just did the sped up version and then shielded after.

And it is true. Just doing a dashdance won't desych your climbers unless you input 3 directions. And I mean without using any moves just desynching them.

Well Im not sure if Im helping but in the vid it looks like he does the desync I do to make Nana Special attack out of a dash dance

Yall know how do this but if you don't:

Foward dash, Back dash, Foward dash (B) Button

Nana attacks first, Popo can Sheild, then Vice Versa.

Thats the dash dance desynch. 3 directions. No, it's not what he's doing.

 

[r3d d09]

I'd love to try this.... but no brawl disk or wii atm I will try at a friends house when i can. seems way legit. it seems like this might be the thing that puts us over the top like fusion... but that's banned.

 

[toobusytocare]

uhh correct me if im wrong but it appears hes doing the dash desync where you dash back then forward really quick, which i guess isnt a dash dance desync, because that requires 3 dashes(?) and at the end of the dash hes inputing shield instead of an IB <_<

im probably wrong though :\

 

[Rubberbandman]

So I guess you mean to Dash once, shield and throw out an IB/Blizzard? Thats what Im working on right now.

Also, Dash dance desynch is 2 inputs, not including the attack input you throw out.

 

[00-Zero]

I messed around with this desync a lot one day, I noticed that if you do the desync when you start out with Nana right where she wants to be, by your side, you need the shield drop to get the desync to work, but if she starts off a little off from the spot she's always trying to be in (i don't remember the specifics here as so far as what direction she should be from where she wants to be ie. back or forwards, but I do remember that it doesn't have to be a huge difference from where she tries to be) she ends up getting shaken off of popo even more by the dash dance, allowing popo to get out of her input range or her to be in some weird turn-around animation which allows popo to shield and hold it and get nana to use a special attack as long as you are also holding down the special when nana gets into "input range"

my guess is he's just so used to it that he noticed she was a little off and used the holding shield variation on this occasion.

EDIT- oh, also I think when I managed the hold shield desync I would run farther than the shield drop variation, for shield drop I would always start it right after popo ended his initial dash animation after the dash dance, but I seem to recall running a bit farther for the other one, not entirely sure about this though.

That's right. What happened at :33 was he did a sort of dash dance, just entering his running animation, but nana was at the point where she would still receive input, which happened to be running in the opposite direction while popo was in the sliding part of the end of his running animation, which is why she started to run back toward the opponent. That got this initial spacing down so when he did another dash dance, it spaced him and nana even further, allowing him to hold his shield, while holding an attack down so nana receives it when she gets close enough. I do this throughout any one of my matches. When I get knocked out of distance of nana, I'm holding something for nana to do for when she gets close enough. I think it's a key part to staying desynced throughout the entirety of a match. It's all about knowing what to be holding for when she returns. I like to use it in the instance that we both get knocked off and are slightly separated or when just nana gets knocked off the stage, I'll go to her, or vice versa, and will be holding my shield button so nana will airdodge. This helps for syncing back up quickly for the recovery, or serves as a means of desyncing while airborne.

Holding an input for nana to receive is really important in any matchup. Try holding it just slightly before she gets there, or input a move by popo right before she gets there and then hold an attack down right afterwards so you'll still be desynced.Either of you get separated by anything, even by a dash dance, you should be holding something for nana to do when she gets back in range.

As for the shield dropping technique, that's just nana doing something as popo is dropping his shield. Though, in the video, that desync at :33 took a two dash dances to complete. Well kinda. It took more than just a dash dance is what I'm saying. But there is a way to space nana out of input's range immediately. You know that standing nana thing where she slides behind popo a little while he attacks, (or can be done at more precise time so that nana does the attack while sliding backwards while popo does nothing.) But what I'm getting at, is this is done by moving the control stick to one side, and then the opposite, without dashing. The way to spacing them immediately is done almost the same way, except it requires an immediate dash after a full turn around/pivot. You turn to face the opposite direction, without dashing, then immediately after you're facing the opposite direction, you press the control stick back towards the initial facing direction so popo will have done a dash and nana will have slid back, out of input range. You can hold any attack so that she does it when she gets close again, and you can continue on to remain desynced after that.
A key thing with this, is that you can do a ridiculously surprising attack that no on e took notice to when I explained it a little while back. It really looks like a reverse hyphen smash. You input an upsmash as you space them, and nana and popo will both do it but will be spaced incredibly far apart, thus having an upsmash in two separate locations on a stage.
Here is an image:

It serves well as a surprise attack and you have enough time to input something with popo to stay desynced, or you could choose to do nothing with popo but be holding an attack for when nana gets back, such as an ice block.

Also, Hylian, the dash dance desync you're talking about isn't just a regular ddd is it? Because my regular ones just take the two directions inputted for a dash dance to become desynced. But the input of the third direction with an attack should give the effect of only nana doing an attack, right? Much like the way it looks with your desync? If so, then I am doing it right. This is nice though. I will certainly have to use this more. Also, tell me what you think about that spacing technique. I can't really find anything else for it besides a desync that takes a little longer to do. It could be good for mind games though. Putting nana out there, baiting them. That's all I've really been able to do with it.

 

[r3d d09]

some of your explanations are insane. make a video and break it down :D

 

[Rubberbandman]

Or show it to us on webcam, because Icies have to be like the ninjas of Smash Boards, secretive and ready to strike when preparations are complete. <_<;

 

[r3d d09]

Or show it to us on webcam, because Icies have to be like the ninjas of Smash Boards, secretive and ready to strike when preparations are complete. <_<;

we should make a site somewhere else dedicated to this stuff so people can't pick up on it xD

and makes it so new people have to gain our trust before our center of awesomeness is exposed.

 

[ch33s3]

we should make a site somewhere else dedicated to this stuff so people can't pick up on it xD

and makes it so new people have to gain our trust before our center of awesomeness is exposed.

It's called the IC BR, but as I've heard it's dead. There's people in there that shouldn't be, and people who should be, but aren't.

 

[00-Zero]

It's called the IC BR, but as I've heard it's dead. There's people in there that shouldn't be, and people who should be, but aren't.

Well that's no good. Why hasn't anything been done about it?

 

[Jupz]

Wow amazing thread Hylian. I've read through everything but I'm not sure I fully understand. With the shield desynch is Popo shielding, then releasing his shield and during the 7 frames he releases his shield nana inputs an attack?

Also the other desynch (at 0:33) looks similar to the one I use which is where I just dash dance using 2 inputs (back then forward) and at the end of the dash dance I can do anything with Popo. But in this one he shoots an ice block with Nana straight after which I have to try.

 

[r3d d09]

Invite me :D I think i'm worthy :3

 

[Smoom77]

Invite me!!! -rant rant rant-

 

[00-Zero]

Wow amazing thread Hylian. I've read through everything but I'm not sure I fully understand. With the shield desynch is Popo shielding, then releasing his shield and during the 7 frames he releases his shield nana inputs an attack?

Yes. That is right. Except they have to initially spaced using a dash dance. Then you input an attack for nana as he's dropping his shield.

Also the other desynch (at 0:33) looks similar to the one I use which is where I just dash dance using 2 inputs (back then forward) and at the end of the dash dance I can do anything with Popo. But in this one he shoots an ice block with Nana straight after which I have to try.

That's because that's all it is. He was just spaced far enough from nana that he was able to hold his shield to defend against an attack while holding an attack until nana got there to do it.

 

[Jupz]

Oh ok, thanks Zero.

 

[J4pu]

Hylian, fix the IC BR

Spoiler

this includes inviting me :/

although, with IC's BR running the IC boards will be even more dead, which sounds almost impossible.
well i guess recently they've picked up at least.

 

[FrozenHobo]

they picked up because i make then pick up, and they will die when i tell them to die. bow before your overlord!

 

[Sieguest]

they picked up because i make then pick up, and they will die when i tell them to die. bow before your overlord!

Woah, smexy light purple.... @_@

On another note, I've been working a little with this desync, I can't seem to hit shield and then press a special before Nana gets back within range... =/
Wonder if a change in controller setup would change something? Would this be easier with bsticking?

 

[r3d d09]

ha, people that have been around the whole time i've been around... seems to get active when i am actively posting. when i'm not... the ic boards are dead. haha

 

[00-Zero]

Woah, smexy light purple.... @_@

On another note, I've been working a little with this desync, I can't seem to hit shield and then press a special before Nana gets back within range... =/
Wonder if a change in controller setup would change something? Would this be easier with bsticking?

Well the desync hylian was talking about doesn't involve hitting the shield. But just hold your shield and then while holding the shield, hold the b button as well. Just hold the attack until nana comes back close enough. You can press it at any point while she's however far out of range, and just keep holding it and she'll do it when she comes in range.

 

[EverAlert]

I don't have much time to look at it right now, but at first glance it doesn't seem like anything new. Thing at 33s looks like a dashdance to N-Blizz to P-Shield, but again, I'm not really looking at it closely so I could be wrong.

I'll look at it closer in a couple of days when my internet goes fast again.

 

[r3d d09]

i miss you EA facebook me :D

 

[lain]

There's simply nothing to fix in the IC BR. Most BR's are just dead because there is nothing to talk about.

 

[Rubberbandman]

I don't have much time to look at it right now, but at first glance it doesn't seem like anything new. Thing at 33s looks like a dashdance to N-Blizz to P-Shield, but again, I'm not really looking at it closely so I could be wrong.

I'll look at it closer in a couple of days when my internet goes fast again.

You need to pay REALLY close attention to every desynch.

It took me a couple of times to see exactly what was going on.

When I get home, I will tell the exact time I see this Kakera desynch, bu right now, Im in a class. =/

 

[FrozenHobo]

i like how ever IC wants into the backroom.

 

[r3d d09]

well... ICs are a slow moving character in the advancement category. Lain. tell secrets.

 

[Hylian]

Couple things:

I'm just going to start calling the sped up kakera desynch without a shield a dash dance desynch because that's what it is. It just looks exactly like his desynch but without the shield and I've never seen someone do it before from only the initial dash dance.

I'm going to start calling Kakeras desynch the DS desynch for Dash Shield Desynch. I could say DDS for dashdanceshield but DS sounds better heh.

And I'll refer to my desynch as the Dash Desynch or the OT(One touch) Desynch.

I just don't like naming things after people >_> lol.


I went to a smashfest last night and tried out most of the stuff in the first post and for the most part it was really useful. I still can't do the DS desynch consistently though, I need to put more practice into it. The DD desynch is really useful and I can already do it consistently with blizzard, I'm wondering why I've never seen it before :/. I've watched pretty much every IC video and no one does this. I've seen people do it and have popo only do something, but not just nana.

People need to learn thissss. I'm going to a tournament this weekend. I'm planning on doing well and getting far enough to be recorded lol so hopefully I'll have some videos of all 3 of these desynchs being used in tournament play soon.

 

[r3d d09]

I'm so confused on the names of these >.> I thougth the DDD was already discovers when nana does the move instead of popo? or are you talking about you've never seen someone shield while doing it?

your one touch as in -> b ->?

and isn't the DS just a dashdance with a shield? hmm. looks like i need to try these things out before i keep on asking questions.

 

[Hylian]

I'm so confused on the names of these >.> I thougth the DDD was already discovers when nana does the move instead of popo? or are you talking about you've never seen someone shield while doing it?

DDD is already when nana does it instead of popo I just only see people DDing more than once to achieve it. If you input 3 directions in a DDD it desynchs them without needing to use a move to desynch them, you can actually just see them desynch as nana stops doing the DDs. But just doing it from one DD straight into nana doing IB/Blizzard I never see even though its really useful.

your one touch as in -> b ->?

Yeah but you don't need to keep dashing after the input, though it's useful to do that and to b-reverse it.

and isn't the DS just a dashdance with a shield? hmm. looks like i need to try these things out before i keep on asking questions.

No, it's more complicated than that. You have to shield at a certain moment, and you have to input the move as you are releasing the shield.

 

[toobusytocare]

micheal hey has been doing this for a while

just sayin

 

[00-Zero]

DK can be grabbed while he's in the cargo toss with someone on his back. Not of any worth really, as it wouldn't be smart for him to be doing that in the first place, just a neat little fun fact that I didn't see mentioned anywhere else.

 

[toobusytocare]

after watching it again, im pretty sure that he only got to hold his shield that one time at 0:33 because of the weird spacing between him and nana due to having done a dash dance thing right before desyncing...

 

[r3d d09]

that would make sense, but that's something good too. space from nana. shield, when she comes in distance, blizz. then you should be able to grab, if they aren't above grab range.

lots of stuff with the DS

 

[sirchadakiss18]

I can Desync OoS >_>

Holy shiz!, im on Brawl at the moment and I did the Deysnc when nana IB first the Dashdance one, I chased it with popo and charged a Usmash with it and Nana was running after me and grabbed the CPU after I Usmashed FTK


Amazing <:O

 

[r3d d09]

Double post. infraction coming.