Desyncing stuff. Possibly new. Very useful. Read!

[sirchadakiss18]

Won't physically hurt me

 

[meepxzero]

lol after spending hrs figuring this desynch out... Ive only came up with one conclusion. Its pretty much frame perfect and its at the very beginning of the dash dance. This desynch is easy to pull off at 2/3s speed, but impossible at normal speed. You have to dashdance fast enough so nana doesnt stutter step, but that requires precision on how fast you dashdance on the control stick.

You can see this easily if u dash dance and shield. If you dash dance and shield real quickly and only nana shields thats close to the correct timing. If you dash dance and shield and they both shield ur doing it wrong. Since shield comes out faster than any of the b moves its obvious using b moves requires GREATER precision. Kakera must have godly fast hands to do this perfectly all the time.

 

[Rubberbandman]

1/2 speed makes it even better for me, maybe I don't have fast enough hands.

Also, I find it much easier to do from the opposite direction(i.e. Popo faces left, and I dash to the right to desynch), I don't think I have been able to do it otherwise for now. =(

 

[00-Zero]

Wait, are you referring to the one Kakera mainly does throughout his match with snake? I thought I knew what you were talking about where if you put in an input soon enough, she'll do an attack. I rarely am able to do this consistently, but when you mentioned Kakera, it confused me because he uses the shield drop technique, and that's not hard to do at all.

 

[r3d d09]

I will try this tomorrow if i feel like it, but i'm sure i will be able to do it

 

[ch33s3]

Now, I'm playing with this. I can get everything to happen BUT Nana blizzard or ice block. I can get dash attacks, dash grabs, etc, with Popo standing there, ready to do anything. You can get a sort of weird dash grab that Popo can run after, actually. I've gotten Nana to blizzard and ice block a few times and this is the first time I'm trying. We can all get this down consistently.

 

[Hylian]

micheal hey has been doing this for a while

just sayin

It's possible but I've seen all his videos and never once seen him do any of the 3 desynchs I'm talking about.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXmkZkHfg08

He does a DD desynch to popo IB a few times but that's it. He never does the SD desynch or DD desynch that makes nana attack and not popo.

I remember when I discovered the dash desynch someone said someone else always did it and linked a video and they were just pivot desynching lol. It seems like if you don't play IC's you aren't going to be able to tell the difference between desynchs very easily.

DK can be grabbed while he's in the cargo toss with someone on his back. Not of any worth really, as it wouldn't be smart for him to be doing that in the first place, just a neat little fun fact that I didn't see mentioned anywhere else.

Nice, I didn't know that .

after watching it again, im pretty sure that he only got to hold his shield that one time at 0:33 because of the weird spacing between him and nana due to having done a dash dance thing right before desyncing...

Have you read the thread yet? We've covered what he did at :33 lol. And I'm still pretty sure he did a DD desynch to popo shield instead of the SD desynch.

that would make sense, but that's something good too. space from nana. shield, when she comes in distance, blizz. then you should be able to grab, if they aren't above grab range.

lots of stuff with the DS

I thought most IC's knew about just holding something down when nana was away so she'll do it lol. I start off almost every match like this. Starting desynch to IB chase it with popo, rared bair and when nana catches up I'm already inputting a blizzard for her.

lol after spending hrs figuring this desynch out... Ive only came up with one conclusion. Its pretty much frame perfect and its at the very beginning of the dash dance. This desynch is easy to pull off at 2/3s speed, but impossible at normal speed. You have to dashdance fast enough so nana doesnt stutter step, but that requires precision on how fast you dashdance on the control stick.

You can see this easily if u dash dance and shield. If you dash dance and shield real quickly and only nana shields thats close to the correct timing. If you dash dance and shield and they both shield ur doing it wrong. Since shield comes out faster than any of the b moves its obvious using b moves requires GREATER precision. Kakera must have godly fast hands to do this perfectly all the time.

You are talking about the SD(kakeras) desynch right? I don't think it's frame window is THAT small, he does it very consistently. I'm having trouble learning it as well, though I can do the same thing he does just without the shield now consistently with the DD desynch.

Wait, are you referring to the one Kakera mainly does throughout his match with snake? I thought I knew what you were talking about where if you put in an input soon enough, she'll do an attack. I rarely am able to do this consistently, but when you mentioned Kakera, it confused me because he uses the shield drop technique, and that's not hard to do at all.

It's really hard unless there is some trick >_>. I practiced for a good amount of time and I still can't do the SD desynch consistently. It's not as hard as mine thankfully but it's still one of the more difficult desynchs.

 

[Hylian]

Aim convo might help some people.

[03:13] chaingrabber: Hey hylian, it's cheese. desynch visual cue: if you tap down, and popo starts to crouch, input downb fast. It'll work
[03:13] chaingrabber: i got it like 85%
[03:13] Hylian88: You mean just from a standing position?
[03:13] chaingrabber: what you just threaded
[03:13] chaingrabber: the one kakera does
[03:13] Hylian88: My thread talks about like 3 desynchs
[03:13] Hylian88: lol
[03:14] Hylian88: The shield drop desynch?
[03:14] chaingrabber: you dont need to shield rop
[03:14] chaingrabber: shield drop
[03:14] chaingrabber: i guess its the instant dash dance one
[03:14] Hylian88: I know, that's the one I found while practicing his and the reason I posted the thread lol
[03:14] Hylian88: They are two different desynchs
[03:15] Hylian88: Oh wait that's a good name for it to avoid confusion
[03:15] Hylian88: the IDD instead of just the DD
[03:15] chaingrabber: IDD is really easy once you realize that as soon as popo starts crouching thats when you input whatever
[03:15] Hylian88: Yeah I know, I posted that in the first post I think lol.
[03:15] Hylian88: I can do it pretty much 100% now
[03:15] Hylian88: Using the crouching as a visual cue
[03:16] chaingrabber: i think whatever kakera is doing
[03:16] chaingrabber: is really similar
[03:16] Hylian88: Blizzard is a lot easier than IB though
[03:16] chaingrabber: and slower
[03:16] chaingrabber: i can ice block
[03:16] chaingrabber: jab
[03:16] Hylian88: Yeah it's very similar
[03:16] chaingrabber: whatever i want
[03:16] Hylian88: But Kakeras is useful because of the shield
[03:16] chaingrabber: its all the same, you can shield out of it
[03:16] Hylian88: Using his you can shield nanas and nades and stuff and follow up with desynchs very effectively
[03:16] Hylian88: It's not all the same
[03:16] chaingrabber: use the same timing
[03:16] chaingrabber: and shield
[03:16] chaingrabber: only popo shields
[03:16] chaingrabber: and nana can do ANYTHING
[03:17] chaingrabber: ive got her rolling through popo's shield
[03:17] chaingrabber: which can grab a diddy glide tossing at you
[03:17] Hylian88: But she will shield as soon as she gets in range, which is why you have to drop it
[03:17] Hylian88: Hence the SD desynch
[03:17] chaingrabber: yea, so drop it?
[03:17] chaingrabber: lol
[03:17] chaingrabber: its the same timing
[03:17] chaingrabber: EXACTLY
[03:17] Hylian88: But it's more inputs
[03:17] Hylian88: So it's harder
[03:17] chaingrabber: you just dont have the cue
[03:17] chaingrabber: you can just tap shield to perfect shield if you want
[03:18] chaingrabber: and theyre desynched
[03:18] Hylian88: You need to hold it a little longer than that to make nana do something
[03:18] Hylian88: You are missing my point though
[03:18] Hylian88: lol
[03:18] Hylian88: Calm down and listen
[03:18] Hylian88:
[03:18] chaingrabber: *breathes*
[03:18] Hylian88: The IDD is really useful yeah, I just went to a smashfest and used it a ton
[03:18] Hylian88: But the SD is more useful in certain situations, especially vs snake and Diddy
[03:18] Hylian88: BECAUSE
[03:19] Hylian88: When you do the SD desynch you shield first and you input whatever nana does next
[03:19] Hylian88: which means you can react better and choose to blizz or IB based on what you are dealing with rather than picking one before
[03:19] Hylian88: Which means better adjusted spacing, zoning, and item control
[03:19] Hylian88: and pressure
[03:20] Hylian88: So it's important to learn both
[03:20] chaingrabber: it's still the same desynch though, just dfferent options out of it
[03:20] chaingrabber: *different
[03:20] chaingrabber: the timing is identical
[03:20] Hylian88: The timing for the shield is identical and easy
[03:20] Hylian88: Dropping the shield and timing that with inputting a desynch for nana is hard
[03:21] Hylian88: Because you can't just tap the shield you need to time it
[03:21] Hylian88: If you do it too early nana rolls
[03:21] Hylian88: if you do it too late she shields or grabs
[03:21] Hylian88: With just the IDD you can just hit b several times without consequence
[03:22] chaingrabber: i think it's an identical mechanic desynching them
[03:22] Hylian88: I think so to. I look at the SD desynch as a variation of the IDD
[03:22] Hylian88: That requires more inputs and stricter timing
[03:23] Hylian88: But pays off better when dealing with projectiles
[03:24] chaingrabber: yea, pretty much. if you have the timing down for the IDD, then you should be able to SD, though. instead of when you would press down b, hold shield about the same time you would hold down, and then drop shield when nana is about to resynch, and do whatever you want. i've gotten her to SHAD a few times, which would catch naners
[03:24] Hylian88: hmm
[03:25] chaingrabber: anything more than IB/Blizzard is HARD though
[03:25] Hylian88: Can you imagine the potential of someone who could use my desynch in conjunction with the IDD/SD desynchs at will in a match?
[03:25] chaingrabber: absurd

 

[Attila_]

who is nothing btw? the **** asked me if i knew him, cause they thought he was pretty good...

 

[Hylian]

who is nothing btw? the **** asked me if i knew him, cause they thought he was pretty good...

He is Micheal Hey(hay?) a California IC player. He's probably top 5 IC's in the US but not many people know him cause he doesn't travel.


Shmot, you should have a conversation with kakera about all this desynching stuff >_> lol. And tell them the stuff I told you to tell them in the other thread.

 

[Attila_]

im sure i could track him down if you really wanted me to... what am i supposed to ask?

keep in mind that all this talk of frame perfect desynching and quick dashdancing is rather hard to translate...

 

[Rubberbandman]

Ask him how he does it, how it is timed, when he discovered it, etc.

 

[r3d d09]

ask him to make a tutorial, then you translate it. Have him give us more advice on this that US players don't know about.

 

[toobusytocare]

Well I'm pretty sure i saw micheal hey doing this at R3, but i wasnt paying much attention to his IC (i had my eye on his ganon O_O) But it certainly wouldnt be surprising because he has such close connections with the japanese players.

also, hylian, idk why i posted that :\ i just felt like talking i guess <_<;

EDIT:
So wait, now you're saying there IS a way to do it without shield drop?

 

[00-Zero]

Ask him how he does it, how it is timed, when he discovered it, etc.

I thought I had explained it nicely. It's really not as hard as you all make it seem. IM me if you need help with it.

ask him to make a tutorial, then you translate it. Have him give us more advice on this that US players don't know about.

The first part, I can do with about a week's time. If it'll really help someone to learn this desync better, I can probably stand to make it. You all just need to know how to do this. It's not so hard. Reread my original post explaining it and IM me if I explained anything badly. The advice part isn't a bad idea either.

EDIT:
So wait, now you're saying there IS a way to do it without shield drop?

You can do this without having to shield drop. Hylian explained it really nicely. You just have to input a third direction for popo to move after a DD. The timing for nana's attack is simple after that.

 

[Hylian]

You can do this without having to shield drop. Hylian explained it really nicely. You just have to input a third direction for popo to move after a DD. The timing for nana's attack is simple after that.

Inputting a third direction is just a normal DD desynch you can do it just like kakeras but without the shield which I call an Instant Dash Dance Desynch or IDD.

Just DD and then you can use crouching as a visual cue for when you need to input whatever. It's really easy with blizzard and I think getting this down will help people with SD(kakeras) desynch as well because the timing for inputting a move for nana with the IDD is the same as when you should put your shield up with popo for the SD desynch.

And if you could make a video for people it would be great .

Shmot, I really want to know what kakera thinks about my desynch and if he can do it consistently . Get him to practice ittttt!

 

[Attila_]

Ask him how he does it, how it is timed, when he discovered it, etc.

the timing and method has already been discussed and discovered. when he discovered it is kinda irrelevant.

ask him to make a tutorial, then you translate it. Have him give us more advice on this that US players don't know about.

thats a amazing request from two people who dont frequent these boards. advice is something i will ask him about though.

Shmot, I really want to know what kakera thinks about my desynch and if he can do it consistently . Get him to practice ittttt!

i did post vids and an explanation posted on their smashboards equivilant, but he didnt reply. perhaps he never saw it. ill investigate.

 

[r3d d09]

Hylian, i knew about the input a move before the game starts, but i never thought about when she gets in range. Just something i never really thought of doing. same with reverse blizzards. Shows how much i play.

 

[Jupz]

Hylian, when you say your desynch, do you mean this one?
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=245462

And what do you input for the DD desynch? Left->right-> attack?

 

[Sieguest]

And what do you input for the DD desynch? Left->right-> attack?

That's it in a nutshell... I think @_@.

 

[00-Zero]

Hylian, when you say your desynch, do you mean this one?
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=245462

And what do you input for the DD desynch? Left->right-> attack?

That would be the one we refer to when we say Hylian's desync. It's absolutely magical!.
As for the DDD, that would be correct, but those are the commands to get popo to start the desync. It's probably the one you see in most in old IC videos. You can input a third direction in and then input an attack to have nana do it.

 

[Jupz]

Ok thanks, is it faster to input 3 directions and have nana do it? also is there a video with these desynchs being used aside from kakera's matches?

Thanks for all the help

 

[r3d d09]

they are hopefully in the process of being made.

 

[Teh Future]

Yeah I actually remember seeing that match and wondering how he desynced with Nana attacking first (cause it just looks like a dash dance desync) but I didnt really look into it much. Hopefully since you typed everything out Ill read all this and see whats up, but I dunno cause Im really lazy and its hard to explain stuff in writing imo anyways LOL

good **** though hylian, I hope this is actually useful

 

[00-Zero]

Ok thanks, is it faster to input 3 directions and have nana do it? also is there a video with these desynchs being used aside from kakera's matches?

Thanks for all the help

It all depends on the situation. Normally, I'm going for Hylian's desync if I have the room and if it can get me a grab. I use the shield drop desync up close, which is the one being used in Kakera's video.

they are hopefully in the process of being made.

I can try making a few, but they'll be crappy and recorded with a digital camera. Is that a problem?

Yeah I actually remember seeing that match and wondering how he desynced with Nana attacking first (cause it just looks like a dash dance desync) but I didnt really look into it much. Hopefully since you typed everything out Ill read all this and see whats up, but I dunno cause Im really lazy and its hard to explain stuff in writing imo anyways LOL

good **** though hylian, I hope this is actually useful

Yeah, he does the shield drop desync throughout his video. I explained it with a big wall of text. It shouldn't be hard to find, especially because it's been quoted a few times as well.

 

[r3d d09]

a video is a video. once i get my wii, i have a very nice capture card and i wouldn't care of making tut's and stuff.

 

[Attila_]

so i did have a rather long chat to kakera over msn last night, and he's a really nice guy. i recommend anyone who speaks any proficiency of japanese to have a chat with him. and he's happy to answer any and all questions you might have.

i asked him about his desyncs, which he says, are just dash dances (as we thought). back, forward then whatever (shield included). nothing overly special there.

he says the best desync is probably hylian's (which he was unaware of), but questions whether or not he'll take the time to learn it. desyncing is already a massive part of his game, and one that he excels at, so trying to drastically introduce something so difficult into his game would be rather hard.

he was shocked by sopo chaingrab percents and plans to utilize them from here on out.

from there we basically just talked about differences between the east and west and stuff like that, so nothing that really applies in this thread.

interesting to note, though, that he spends most of his time on wifi cause he lives out in the middle of nowhere. what a legend

and he loves the fact that we have a thread and multiple discussions devoted to him.

AND finally, he *may* (and that is a big *may*) come to apex2. maybe.

 

[Jupz]

How does he dash dance desynch with nana attacking first and only inputting two directions?

 

[Rubberbandman]

I wish I could speak Japanese even more now, Shmot. =(

I can try making a few, but they'll be crappy and recorded with a digital camera. Is that a problem?

That sounds all the better, there, you can show you hands, I could possibly get it down better if I saw how you timed it.

Thats just how a roll though @_@

 

[r3d d09]

I'm the same RBM. no worries.

 

[00-Zero]

How does he dash dance desynch with nana attacking first and only inputting two directions?

He uses his shield as soon as Popo finhes the DD and inputs an attack for Nana while he's releasing his shield. Nana does the attack in Popo's shield drop animation.

 

[Jupz]

I've seen him do it without the shield, at 0:09 in the video for example. Is that the other desynch Hylian was talking about?

 

[Corrupted]

what hes doing is making popo doing dash->dash other way(fast, dash dance) and let him complete the foxtrot. fox trot has little lag and he soon shields. nana dash -> dash other way-> during initial dash animation he does a ice block/blizzard, a stutter step b move effectively. The imput happen after popos intial dash frame (2nd dash) and before or during the frames of nana's.

 

[Jupz]

Yeah thanks, I've been practicing it and gotten it to work over the last few days. Should have edited my post to let you know i'd found a solution, sorry.

Is the pivot desynch still useful, or is it outclassed? I still find myself using it sometimes even though I can do all these new desynchs consistently (except Hylians, which I land about 1/3rd of the time).

 

[Masterchef1123]

At 5:50 instead of using a forward throw
you could have killed snake with a c-stick double smash

 

[Diddyknight]

so i did have a rather long chat to kakera over msn last night, and he's a really nice guy. i recommend anyone who speaks any proficiency of japanese to have a chat with him. and he's happy to answer any and all questions you might have.

i asked him about his desyncs, which he says, are just dash dances (as we thought). back, forward then whatever (shield included). nothing overly special there.

he says the best desync is probably hylian's (which he was unaware of), but questions whether or not he'll take the time to learn it. desyncing is already a massive part of his game, and one that he excels at, so trying to drastically introduce something so difficult into his game would be rather hard.

he was shocked by sopo chaingrab percents and plans to utilize them from here on out.

from there we basically just talked about differences between the east and west and stuff like that, so nothing that really applies in this thread.

interesting to note, though, that he spends most of his time on wifi cause he lives out in the middle of nowhere. what a legend

and he loves the fact that we have a thread and multiple discussions devoted to him.

AND finally, he *may* (and that is a big *may*) come to apex2. maybe.

Sounds like you were talking to かけら