Social Burn With Passion!! -- Incineroar General Discussion (Formerly the Support Thread)

Deleted member · Mar 17, 2017

There's always that Black Sheep in the family; the outcast that is often regarded as a disgrace. Of the Starter Pokémon from the Alola region, that Black Sheep is none other than Incineroar, the Heel Pokémon.

When the trio of fully evolved Starters were first leaked months before Pokémon Sun & Moon were released, they all received mixed reception, with poor Incineroar getting the worst of it due to his design. Common complaints were due to being a biped, having the build of a Fighting type (which many feared Incineroar would end up being yet another one of), and the admittedly ridiculous sized hands. While the official reveal of Incineroar being in Sun/Moon helped alleviate some of the fears with the reveal of being a Dark type instead of Fighting due to being based off a wrestling HEEL, it took some time for people to warm up to the tiger while his owl and sea lion companions had easier success at getting better reception.

.....not that Incineroar cares what people have to say about him; the "heat" that comes his way from negativity actually fuels his power and makes him stronger! If there were any Pokémon that would be known to drink the salty tears of his enemies as a refreshing beverage, it'd be this guy!

So why should he be in Smash? Because he was practically designed for it. He'd be Smash's first grappling-based fighter with several different wrestling techniques to be able to combo into such as the Tiger Swing and the Tiger Breaker (tentative name for that backbreaker in his concept art until I can properly translate what it's called), as well as dirty fighting techniques like spitting Embers into opponents' eyes to temporarily blind them, one of its signature moves Throat Chop (though I don't know how it would actually work in Smash context....), using unconventional weaponry like folding chairs and tables (another named technique in his concept art that I have yet to properly translate), and snaring opponents in Fire Spin traps fired from the flaming belt.

And of course, his main signature move, the Darkest Lariat.

Which leads to the special Z-Move (which functions like a Final Smash), Malicious Moonsault.

....just so goddamn awesome.

Anyways, if you think Incineroar shouldn't be in Smash for one reason or another.....

If you think he should, then I'll add your name to this support list:

Mythra

Flavius

Sir Gengar de Èctoplasma

Opossum

Kirbeh

LIQUID12A
@TheSqushiestManatee
@NuzTheMonkey
@Blackwolf666
@Holder of the Heel
@Desdar300
@AustarusIV
@NonSpecificGuy
@CrusherMania1592
@Z1GMA
@Kotor
@MacDaddyNook
@UserKev
@Miifighters4Smash5

The Stoopid Unikorn
S SEGAGameBoy

Walfan

The Legendary Beast

Cetus

Zoljinx_

Takasmash
A AquaSol

Klimax

Noipoi

Flik

toonito

Chrono.

THE 6r

Domino11332
@Kremling Man

Confirmation
@Groomer

Dejime

StormC

Fane

Midnight Torch
@JDogindy

Handy Man

PassePopinjay

spoilerowl

Basty
M Multi-bottle Thief

Pakky

Flyboy

Makotoa

ufufu

CrocoLoco

ButterGeek

Extras:

Palette swap concepts by me:

Palette swap concepts by AlphaSSB:

8-Player Smash Ultimate aesthetic by AustarusIV:

Moveset by The Stoopid Unikorn:

Jab
First hit - A vertical chopping motion with his back paw.
Second hit - A horizontal claw swipe with his front paw.
"Gentleman" - A powerful palm strike with his back paw. A great "get off of me" move. Has a darkness effect.
Infinite jab - A flaming twister coming out of his belt. Visual reference.
Infinite finisher - His belt creates a flame in the shape of an open pair of teeth, which then chomps down on the opponent. About as good as his Gentleman. Based on the Fire Fang move. Visual reference.

Tilts and Dash
Forward tilt - He leans forward with both arms together and swipes, separating his claws on impact. The claws are a sweetspot that deals more damage (but the same knockback) and the only part of the move with a darkness effect. Based on the Cross Chop move.
Up tilt - An overhead arcing swipe with his claws. The claws are a sweetspot that deals more damage (but the same knockback) and the only part of the move with a darkness effect.
Down tilt - He performs a slap while crouching.
Dash attack - He thrusts forward with an arm outstretched, then twists his claws. The claws are a sweetspot that deals more damage (but the same knockback) and the only part of the move with a darkness effect. Visual reference.

Smashes
Forward smash - He rears back and makes a lunging elbow attack. Strong horizontal kill option. Can be tilted. Has a fire effect.
Up smash - A powerful uppercut. Not as strong as his forward smash, but gets the job done. Has a fire effect. Visual reference.
Down smash - He swipes his claws on both sides of his body, one at a time. His fastest, but weakest smash attack. Has a fire effect.

Grabs and Throws
Grab - He holds onto the opponent's head with his claws.
Pummel - A punch to the opponent's gut.
Forward throw - He throws the opponent in the air, then performs a palm strike to send them flying forward. The final strike has his hand glowing purple, giving it a darkness effect. Based on the Throat Chop move. Visual reference.
Back throw - He grabs the opponent's legs, spins them around to lift them off of the ground, then releases them on the other side, tossing them backwards. His best throw for kills or simply sending opponents off the stage. Visual reference.
Up throw - He holds the opponent upside down by the waist, then leaps into the air in a sitting position with the opponent's head between his legs. Spinning rapidly, slams the opponent headfirst into the ground. The impact sends them flying upward. Visual reference.
Down throw - He lifts the opponent up over his shoulders, then slams them onto the ground. Can set up tech chases. Visual reference (first one only).

Aerials
Neutral air - He spreads his arms and legs out wide. Based on a wrestling move called the body press, but unlike a typical body press, it is not affected by gravity, mainly because it's not a down air here. Visual reference.
Forward air - He swipes downward with his claws. The claws are a sweetspot that deals more damage (but the same knockback) and the only part of the move with a darkness effect.
Back air - He turns around to perform a low-angled back slap, with his hand engulfed in darkness. Could work as a kill option. Visual reference.
Up air - He swings his claws in an arch almost exactly like his up tilt. The claws are a sweetspot that deals more damage (but the same knockback) and the only part of the move with a darkness effect.
Down air - An elbow drop. Works as a stall-then-fall meteor smash. Visual reference.

Neutral Special: Darkest Lariat
One of Incineroar's signature techniques. In Smash, it works as a chargeable move similar in fuction to Link's Spin Attack, becoming stronger the more you charge it. As the name implies, it allows him to perform a lariat with a darkness effect. Visual reference. Or alternatively...

Much like Spin Attack, you can't keep the charge and, due to it being a lariat, can't be reversed when unleashing it since it hits both sides anyway. Performing it in the air will put Incineroar into freefall. The attack has some startup and ending lag, but it's a strong KO option when fully charged, making it a move that's more suited for hard reads or shield breaks.

Side Special: Submission
A move that Incineroar doesn't really have in his move list, but given his wrestler motif and his moveset's design as a grappler, it remains a fitting move for him. It essentially works as a combination of command grabs that don't really follow the one-second limit for grabs in order for the move to properly work. Much like Marth's Dancing Blade, you can choose the follow-up you get using the B button and holding a directional input, giving you four different ways to extend the move. With that said, you need to have presice timing in order for the follow-up to work.

Initial grab - He throws his opponent upwards before he leaps towards them and, grabbing their legs, slams them to the ground. Visual reference.
Aerial version - He only does the slam. Can work as a Ganoncide, but can be mashed out of by the opponent.

Neutral/Forward+B - He lifts his opponent one-handed, them slams their face to the ground. Twice. Doesn't require any timing for a follow-up, but as a tradeoff, deals very little damage. Visual reference.
Back+B - He performs a headlock and crushes his opponent repeatedly, salutes with one arm and neck rides the opponent to the ground. The most damaging option, but also the one with the least forgiving timing for follow-ups. Visual reference.
Up+B - He lifts the opponent with one hand and then slams them down to the ground. Twice. The second least damaging option, but has a forgiving timing for a follow-up to compensate. Visual reference.
Down+B - He grabs the foe back up with one hand and slams them behind him. Twice. The fastest option. Damage and timing is in between that of Back+B and Up+B. Visual reference.

Neutral/Forward+B - He picks up the foe, flips them upside down, walks a bit and piledrives. Has very little knockback, setting up for tech chases. Visual reference.
Back+B - He performs a waistlock before backward rolling into two German suplexes, followed by a Power Bomb. The most damaging option. Visual reference.
Up+B - He jumps in the air, holding the opponent, them performs a rack hold before doing an Argentine backbreaker drop, throwing them off afterwards. The least damaging option, but can be followed up with an aerial, dash attack, etc. Visual reference.
Down+B - He brutally slams the opponent to the ground. Twice. The second time strong enough to send them flying. The option with the most knockback. Visual reference.

For both the initial grab and the first follow-up, the proper timing for follow-ups is at the point where the opponent lands on the floor at the end of the command grab.

Up Special: Cross Chop
A simple recovery move in which Incineroar goes to a direction of the player's choosing. As he moves, he crosses its arms to form an "X". If he hits an opponent with his crossed arms, he will push them back with its hands, dealing a good amount of knockback. Visual reference.

The recovery range is similar to that of Wolf's Fire Wolf, but if an opponent gets in the way, the attack will happen early, stopping all momentum. Regardless of when the attack happens, it will put Incineroar into freefall.

Down Special: Bulk Up / Revenge
The down special divides itself in two moves; Bulk Up and Revenge.

The Bulk Up move is one that is defensive in nature. Incineroar flexes his body and a flame from his fire belt travels upwards over his torso, causing his muscles to thicken. In this state, he will receive super armor against the next attack that hits him, similarly to Ryu's Focus Attack. Visual reference.

In addition, by pressing B and holding directional input, Incineroar will be able to perform a command grab. This is the Revenge move, yet another move Incineroar doesn't normally have, but still kinda makes sense give how the move works. However, this only works as soon as Incineroar is hit during Bulk Up, essentially working like a manually-inputted command grab counter.

Neutral/Forward+B - He spins around his opponent, then performs a back drop. Both Incineroar and his opponent end up on the ground and are both in a tech chase situation. Visual reference.
Back+B - He rolls backwards then throws his opponent off. By far the option with the most knockback. Visual reference.
Up+B - He holds his opponent through the collar, spins them around above his head like a lasso and then slams them into the ground. Can set up combos. Visual reference (except he slams them in the same direction he grabbed them).
Down+B - He grabs the opponent's arm and snaps it at the elbow, then turns them around and snaps the neck, then trips them up to the ground. Visual reference. Can set up tech chases. Visual reference (until 0:07).

He can also perform the command grabs in the air, but his options are much more limited, making it similar to Bowser's Koopa Klaw in Melee.

Neutral/Forward/Up+B - He performs a palm strike right at the opponent's gut, sending them forward. The Up+B version instead strikes the opponent's head, causing the angle to be more diagonally upward.
Back/Down+B - He spins around before sending his opponent backward at a downwards angle. Despite said angle, it is not a meteor. Visual reference.

Final Smash: Malicious Moonsault
Incineroar initiates the Final Smash by making a pose. Anyone within a certain range, indicated by a sudden burst of flames, will be trapped into a cinematic Final Smash in which they are in the middle of a wrestling ring. Incineroar, jumping on one of the ring's corners, then leaps high in the air and performs a body press, landing on the opponents and causing an explosion. In other words, his Z-Move. Visual reference.

Moveset by kendikong:

View attachment 164895
Final Smash: Malicious Moonsault

View attachment 164885
Up B: Throat Chop
A recovery move that acts as a command grab similar to Cap. Falcon's up B. The difference is that Incineroar throws the opponent downward and he does not kick back when he does.

View attachment 164887
Down B: Darkest Lariat
Acts similar to a grounded link's up b. Has some invincibility frames and is a good get off me tool. Can be charged to increase power and rpm.

View attachment 164889
Neutral B: Flamethrower
Unlike charizard or bowser's flamethower, this projectile will be a fast, powerful stream of fire. This move must be charged for 2-3 seconds before unleashing. It will deal multihit properties and has final strong hitbox. It travels the same distance of a pk fire and the hitboxes are active for 1-2 seconds.

Side B: Seismic Toss
Command grab and is basically a piledriver move like Bowser Bomb

View attachment 164894
Taunt: Bulk Up
This move gives Incineroar a temporary buff (think of deep breathing). The startup for this move is 3 seconds and cannot be canceled. The buff lasts for 7 seconds and gives incineroar the following: 20% knockback/damage reduction, 20% damage increase. Chargeable specials can be charged 20% faster too.

View attachment 164897
Fair: Cross Chop
Double slash attack with similar frame data to charizard's fair

Nair: Twirl
Quickly twirls in the air in a fetal position

Dair: Body Slam
Does a quick twirl in the air and quickly slams down with his stomach

Uair: Slash
Slashes in a wide circular arc above similar to Ike's new uair. Not as disjointed, but faster startup.

View attachment 164901
Fsmash: Throat Chop (punch variant)
Similar power and frame data to Ryu's Fsmash

Dsmash:
Similar to Bowser's new dsmash, slightly weaker and faster.

USmash:
Slashes high in the air with a small leap like megaman's utilt. Does the twirl as well.

Ftilt:
Quickly kicks forward like captain falcon's ftilt

Utilt:
Quickly punches both arms above his head as if doing a victory pose

Dtilt:
Sweeping leg kick like Ryu's dmash. Weaker and much less end endlag.

Jab: Fury Swipes
Simple 1-2-3 jab similar to Charizard's

Dthrow:
Suplex opponent to the ground but does not cause knockback (like Snake's dthrow)

Uthrow:
Like K Rool's Uthrow

Fthrow:
Similar to Kirby's fthrow

Bthrow:
Similar to Mario's back throw

Art by Cool Guy 36:

(I'll probably touch up on this post over time.)

A Distant Demon · Mar 17, 2017

Favorite pokemon of all time

And that's the bottom line cause Zebei said so
*glass shatters*

Yomi's Biggest Fan · Mar 17, 2017

There's my favorite little hellraiser that's I'd like to support.

I'm all aboard that Incineroar hype train. Malicious Moonsault away!

FalKoopa · Mar 17, 2017

I want my Shere Khan in Smash. Yes please.

My favourite starter Pokémon by a mile.

Cutie Gwen · Mar 17, 2017

Best Alola Starter
Count me in!

Kevandre · Mar 17, 2017

While I'm generally more Team Decidueye, I really would love to see Incineroar due to the fact that he shoots fire out of his crotch as an attack and that sounds like the most exciting Smash character ever. Maybe as a Pokeball summon. He just runs out flame-humping

Opossum · Mar 17, 2017

Decidueye's definitely my guy when it comes to Alola Pokémon in Smash, but I wouldn't mind Incineroar.

Ridley_Prime · Mar 17, 2017

Eh what the hell, I support. May have not been one of my favorite designs (though didn't think it was terrible either like others), but its type and some of its moves more than made up for it in my Sun playthrough.

AwesomeAussie27 · Mar 17, 2017

Kevandre said:
While I'm generally more Team Decidueye, I really would love to see Incineroar due to the fact that he shoots fire out of his crotch as an attack and that sounds like the most exciting Smash character ever. Maybe as a Pokeball summon. He just runs out flame-humping

Wut.

Reaction aside, I wouldn't mind Bara Fire Tony the Tiger at all. This is coming from a hardcore Primarina fan.

Deleted member · Mar 18, 2017

Kevandre said:
While I'm generally more Team Decidueye, I really would love to see Incineroar due to the fact that he shoots fire out of his crotch as an attack and that sounds like the most exciting Smash character ever. Maybe as a Pokeball summon. He just runs out flame-humping

....not sure to add to support list or not......

Same with those that state they "wouldn't mind". Not sure if that's an add to the "support" list or not an add.

Jason the Yoshi · Mar 18, 2017

Well, even though I didn't get very far in Pokémon Sun, I did pick Litten as my starter, so I'll support.

AreJay25 · Mar 18, 2017

Sign me up for this.

Favorite starter from Sun and Moon and just one of my favorites in general.

AwesomeAussie27 · Mar 18, 2017

GoldenYuiitusin said:
....not sure to add to support list or not......

Same with those that state they "wouldn't mind". Not sure if that's an add to the "support" list or not an add.

Sure you can add me.

I find all of the starters' designs appealing oddly enough. Plus who wouldn't want to see a real wrestler in Smash?

FalKoopa · Mar 19, 2017

lol Flame-humping.

It's that pelvic thrust he uses for some of his attacks (like Flamethrower). I wonder how it was able to get past the censors. It does look rather suggestive.

Diddy Kong · Mar 19, 2017

Much better choice than Decidueye I think, at least he's not shoe-horned and part of a bandwagon train. It's an interessting character choice, though for a wrestler type of character I'd much rather see the Wrestler from Rhytym Heaven (I haven't played either Pokemon Sun / Moon or Rhytym Heaven however). But this isn't a bad idea either. I however doubt it's popularity will become anything significant, much like Decidueye. But a fiery tiger wrestler? Why not? Don't count me as a true supporter yet, but I would like this addition better than just about anything we've gotten in Smash 4, so there's that.

Champ Gold · Mar 19, 2017

Oh yeah, I'm gonna support my favorite Alolan starter

Autumn ♫ · Mar 19, 2017

I definitely want him in. He was my Alola starter, and probably my favorite Alolan Pokemon. I'd love to see him get in.

Mythra · Mar 19, 2017

The True Champ of Alola has my support.

78/10 way better than Reigns.

InsaneAlchemist · Mar 22, 2017

Even though I do support Decidueye, as I mentioned in that thread I'm more Team Incineroar. So I support this for the sheer reason of pure bias, and plus I can see Incineroar as one of the heavyweight characters.

Deleted member · Mar 23, 2017

The true ace of the team is even more a given than before.

INCINEROAR MASTER RACE!

EDIT: By "a given", I meant for Ash's team, not Smash.
None of the Pokémon are really a "given" for Smash at this point in time.

I'm just excited since this is Incineroar-related.

Flavius · Mar 24, 2017

Definitely my number one choice for a Pokemon rep at this point. I support 100%.

Deleted member · Mar 25, 2017

Love the new avatar @GoldenYuiitusin

Deleted member · Mar 28, 2017

While I appreciate that, something like that would be more appropriate for my profile page than in this thread.

Deleted member · Apr 6, 2017

Apologies for double posting (though it's my own thread and it hadn't been posted in over a week, so maybe it's ok?), but we're just hours away from Litten officially being Ash's.

Cutie Gwen · Apr 6, 2017

I'd like to make a moveset for Incineroar, but I know next to nothing about wrestling, could someone be so kind to show some common wrestling moves, preferably dirty moves?

A Distant Demon · Apr 6, 2017

Rider Gwen said:
I'd like to make a moveset for Incineroar, but I know next to nothing about wrestling, could someone be so kind to show some common wrestling moves, preferably dirty moves?

Someone say wrestling?

I would post images of some of these moves, but im in public and people can see my screen and a bunch of nearly naked men is weird so. . .

Malicious Moonsault actually isn't a moonsault, it's a "450" splash. Of course, it's not a 450 because of how many rotations. It's way more than 450 degrees of spin. It's like a 2250 splash

clotheslines (easy option for a dash attack)
Drop kicks (could also be an air move)
Super Kicks
Powerbombs
piledrivers
Suplexes

Air moves
Elbow drops
Moonsaults (real ones)
frog splash

Dirty moves
Eye rakes/pokes
Atomic drops
Low Blows
Hitting someone with a foreign object like a steel chair or brass knuckles

Not a lot of reasons for submission moves other than a grab, which I would suggest a simple headlock. If you want more submission moves for some reason, you can't go wrong with a sharpshooter or Boston Crab

If you want to see how a big man wrestles, just look up a match from Kane or the big show or the Undertaker

If you want to see how the fancy speed guys do it, watch someone like Rey Mysterio or Rob Van Dam

For technical guys all I can recommend is Kurt Angle or Chris Jericho.

Hope this helps

Bowserlick · Apr 6, 2017

Let us not forget the Mandible Claw/Socko. That move should somehow work its way in.

A Distant Demon · Apr 7, 2017

Incineroar getting a decent spot in the new pokemon movie trailer

My tinfoil hat is OFFICIALLY on.

Deleted member · Apr 8, 2017

Zebei said:
Incineroar getting a decent spot in the new pokemon movie trailer

My tinfoil hat is OFFICIALLY on.

HOLY ****ING ****.

I had a theory that Incineroar was going to be the starter GameFreak wanted to push, but I was not expecting this of all things.

....shame that in the same trailer we see a certain shadowboxer......which means Marshadow is now major competition.

Opossum · Apr 8, 2017

GoldenYuiitusin said:
HOLY ****ING ****.

I had a theory that Incineroar was going to be the starter GameFreak wanted to push, but I was not expecting this of all things.

....shame that in the same trailer we see a certain shadowboxer......which means Marshadow is now major competition.

I mean on one hand, Mythical Pokémon like Marshadow tend to be Poké Ball Pokémon if anything. On the other hand, well...there's a first time for everything.

If nothing else though, this definitely solidified my view of Incineroar as a notable Smash contender, alongside Decidueye and Tapu Koko.

Sir Gengar de Èctoplasma · Apr 8, 2017

While Decidueye is my favorite of the three Alolan starters, I do think Incineroar would a really fun character to play as, too. I support.

Deleted member · Apr 8, 2017

Opossum said:
I mean on one hand, Mythical Pokémon like Marshadow tend to be Poké Ball Pokémon if anything. On the other hand, well...there's a first time for everything.

If nothing else though, this definitely solidified my view of Incineroar as a notable Smash contender, alongside Decidueye and Tapu Koko.

So do you want me to add you to the list of supporters? You hadn't specified.

Opossum · Apr 8, 2017

GoldenYuiitusin said:
So do you want me to add you to the list of supporters? You hadn't specified.

Sure, why not?

~~You know what they say...~~

Deleted member · Apr 8, 2017

Opossum said:
Sure, why not?

~~You know what they say...~~

All toasters toast toast? :troll:

Kirbeh · Apr 8, 2017

Add me to the support list too plz. I'm already in the Primarina support thread, but I like all the starters pretty evenly. I'd be fine with any of them. This definitely gives Incineroar the edge imo, though maybe we're judging too soon? IDK, you never really know when it comes to Smash, especially so with Pokemon it seems. As for Marshadow, I agree with Opossum. I think it'll be a rare Pokeball Pokemon at most, and have a trophy at the least.

Diddy Kong · Apr 8, 2017

I don't think that other Pokemon is much of a treat to Incineroar's chances either. And we don't really know the role of Incineroar in the movie, just that it appears. Ho-Oh and Pikachu seem the most important Pokemon of this upcoming movie, but the fact it appears is good. It just needs to appear more often from now on, which I think it will.

Still like the design and idea of Incineroar far more than Decidueye, and at least Incineroar's support seems far more genuine and less forced than the owl's. So in that regard, I'd far rather see the tiger than the owl, cause I also always wanted a feline fighter in Smash and we didn't have many if any choices (outside of King Caineghis from Fire Emblem Radiant Dawn- which was never a likely pick).

Mythra · Apr 8, 2017

Seems Incineroar is getting a nice push.

>Litten becomes Ash's main Alola starter.
>It fully evolves
>Starts wrecking everyone ala Infernape
>Suplex City *****
>Alola League gets built
>Ash curbstomps everybody with Incineroar to reach the finals again
>Dankest Lariat for the win
>Ash is confident on the power of his big cat until his final opponent is revealed to be:

A Distant Demon · Apr 8, 2017

~~Man Reigns has such a great theme.~~

Honestly, this is the first thing to make me put Incineroar at a >0% chance

Even though it might just be nothing, it is some level of extra visibility, and it makes me happy. Hoping my favorite pokemon of all time manages to get in.

LIQUID12A · Apr 8, 2017

I do want Tapu Koko more than any other Gen 7 mon, admittedly, but I can't argue with angry edgy pelvis thrusting Tony Tiger.

Throw me on that support list.

Yomi's Biggest Fan · Apr 8, 2017

LIQUID12A said:
I do want Tapu Koko more than any other Gen 7 mon, admittedly, but I can't argue with angry edgy pelvis thrusting Tony Tiger.

Throw me on that support list.

Literally the best description anyone would give to mah boi Incineroar.

Social Burn With Passion!! -- Incineroar General Discussion (Formerly the Support Thread)

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