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Social Burn With Passion!! -- Incineroar General Discussion (Formerly the Support Thread)

D

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So a question I keep thinking to myself about the Asian mist reference or eye-poking, how should it work in regards to Smash?
How should being "blinded" be represented?
 

Kirbeh

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So a question I keep thinking to myself about the Asian mist reference or eye-poking, how should it work in regards to Smash?
How should being "blinded" be represented?
Honestly I feel like that sort of move is best left out. Nintendo probably wouldn't be too happy about. Snake choking opponents got a pass so maybe they'd allow it, but Brawl was rated T. Smash For on the other hand is E10+ and I feel like they're likely going to stick to that for future titles. Then again Bayo has guns...but everything in the game is still fantasy/cartoon/slapstick violence...but guns...I don't know. I can't tell what's okay or what isn't anymore.
 
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Visually, I think Bravely Default does it really well
(Yeah I think bravely default does something well. WHo would have guessed. Big black cloud is pretty easy to see. Although something like Kirby in all black might be a problem

From an actual mechanical standpoint there is one that is pretty obvious
Quite simply, making all or perhaps only some (based on RNG) of attacks simply do 0 damage and miss. Think like how people with the cloaking device item dont take damage. Although, most likely they would probably not deal knockback.

Something like not being able to pick up items too because you cant see them could be funny as well


Although, im not a fan of gimmickuy moves like that so I would prefer some other idea like it being incorporated into a throw. (EX green mist makes opponent turn around followed by a Tiger Suplex/German suplex)
 

Wolley2xjd

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I think Incineroar should be a grappler fighter, mainly if we don't OoA Impa.
 

Kirbeh

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Oh. I'm assuming I completely missed what the actual idea was. I don't know what asian mist refers to, so my above comment was only referring to jabbing fingers into peoples eyes.

If fighting dirty and just having a blinding move of some sort is the general idea then maybe give him Smokescreen? Though I can't think of a good way to make it function in game other than what Zebei already mentioned which may cause some balance issues. An RNG based whiff/miss mechanic would be really gimmicky in the bad way imo.

Anytime people got blinded they'd probably just avoid attacking altogether until it wore off, plus this could possibly be an unfair advantage depending on how often Incineroar gets to use it. Plus it'd promote campy gameplay if an Incineroar has a percent lead and can then just blind the opponent and run away. And then if the opponent pursues and manages to get an attack in, it can still whiff leaving the Incineroar to just keep whaling on the opponent.

Landing a hit, but not really getting it, seems like a bit of a broken status ailment to put in a fighting game.
 
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D

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Honestly I feel like that sort of move is best left out. Nintendo probably wouldn't be too happy about. Snake choking opponents got a pass so maybe they'd allow it, but Brawl was rated T. Smash For on the other hand is E10+ and I feel like they're likely going to stick to that for future titles. Then again Bayo has guns...but everything in the game is still fantasy/cartoon/slapstick violence...but guns...I don't know. I can't tell what's okay or what isn't anymore.
The eyepoke, probably. (Also would be impractical in some aspects)
But the Asian mist? I don't see anything wrong with that.

Visually, I think Bravely Default does it really well
(Yeah I think bravely default does something well. WHo would have guessed. Big black cloud is pretty easy to see. Although something like Kirby in all black might be a problem

From an actual mechanical standpoint there is one that is pretty obvious
Quite simply, making all or perhaps only some (based on RNG) of attacks simply do 0 damage and miss. Think like how people with the cloaking device item dont take damage. Although, most likely they would probably not deal knockback.

Something like not being able to pick up items too because you cant see them could be funny as well


Although, im not a fan of gimmickuy moves like that so I would prefer some other idea like it being incorporated into a throw. (EX green mist makes opponent turn around followed by a Tiger Suplex/German suplex)
Huh. A cloud over the opponent's face might work visually.
An RNG effect such as cancelling out damage on attacks randomly may need some tweaking, though. For example, if a blinded Mewtwo shot a Shadow Ball that went across the stage to hit an opponent and it just did nothing, it would be a bit messed up.


Oh. I'm assuming I completely missed what the actual idea was. I don't know what asian mist refers to, so my above comment was only referring to jabbing fingers into peoples eyes.

If fighting dirty and just having a blinding move of some sort is the general idea then maybe give him Smokescreen? Though I can't think of a good way to make it function in game other than what Zebei already which may cause some balance issues. An RNG based whiff/miss mechanic would be really gimmicky in the bad way imo.

Anytime people got blinded they'd probably just avoid attacking altogether until it wore off, plus this could possibly be an unfair advantage depending on how often Incineroar gets to use it. Plus it'd promote campy gameplay if an Incineroar has a percent lead and can then just blind the opponent and run away. And then if the opponent pursues and manages to get an attack in, it can still whiff leaving the Incineroar to just keep whaling on the opponent.

Landing a hit, but not really getting it, seems like a bit of a broken status ailment to put in a fighting game.
The reason I wanted to go more for the Asian mist-type move rather than something like Smokescreen (other than the fact we see Incineroar doing it in concept art and it's a known illegal maneuver) was because it would have to, like Mewtwo's Disable, hit the opponent dead-on in the face to take effect while Smokescreen would create a layer of smoke that would affect the opponent just by being in it.
 
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The reason I wanted to go more for the Asian mist-type move rather than something like Smokescreen (other than the fact we see Incineroar doing it in concept art and it's a known illegal maneuver) was because it would have to, like Mewtwo's Disable, have to hit the opponent dead-on in the face to take effect while Smokescreen would create a layer of smoke that would affect the opponent just by being in it.
IMO, it would probably be just set to stop normals.

Sure, some specials like Marth's dancing blade wouldn't make sense to not be blinded, but then you would need to do a case by case basis for every single special which is just an absurd amount of work for just one move although an item being added with the same effect to capitalize on the idea wouldn't surprise me).
 

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I'd personally avoid gimmicky moves. Maybe one at most. I assume the idea comes from Incineroar been a heel, but I'd actually prefer it if he were a flashy fighter akin to Captain Falcon.
 
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So a question I keep thinking to myself about the Asian mist reference or eye-poking, how should it work in regards to Smash?
How should being "blinded" be represented?
Could "Dizzy" status work, or is it too far from blinded?

Your cat must be 5'11" and stand on two feet to ride this coaster. :p
Aww... I was hoping I could bring my cat along.
 
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There are so many new pokemon I want in it's great. Incineroar would be an awesome character. I would see him as a sort of heavy/powerhouse style character.
 
D

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Yeah, I meant Stun. Just remembered the name wrong. :facepalm:
Ah.

Honestly, I'd rather it be something else, as the Stun would make the move almost the exact same thing as Mewtwo's Disable.


Also, first known official merchandise for Incineroar relating to the movie.


Surprised Marshadow doesn't have a figure, honestly.
 

Kirbeh

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Moveset - I know nothing about wrestling so be warned on that. My basis for Incineroar's possible moves comes from moves he can actually learn in Pokemon as well as inspiration from other fighting game characters like Alex (Street Fighter), Beowulf (Skullgirls), etc.

Kind of just slapped this one together, so it's not a moveset I can say I'm too happy with, but I thought I'd put it out there anyway. Get some more talk going about how he could work.
Neutral Jab - Incineroar performs two wide claw swings. Strong, but a bit sluggish.

Forward Tilt: Flamethrower - A quick jet of flame bursts from Incineroar's "belt". This serves as a quick normal hit and cannot be held like :4charizard:'s version.

Up Tilt - Incineroar swipes his claw in an overhead arc.

Down Tilt - Incineroar claws at the opponent while crouched.

Dash Attack - Incineroar performs a lariat.

Side Smash: Fire Blast - Incineroar builds up power in his "belt" and fires a close range blast of flame.

Up Smash - Incineroar crouches low and quickly jumps up, tackling opponents.from below with his shoulder. Think Alex's Crouching HP from SFIII and SFV.

Down Smash: Dark Pulse - Incineroar rears his head back and roars, releasing a pulse of darkness that travels outward around him. Hits close to the ground on both sides.

Neutral Air: Cross Chop - Incineroar faces the camera and folds his arms. He then quickly performs two outward chops, hitting around himself.

Forward Air - Incineroar performs a overhead, downward swipe with both claws. Think Beowulf's jumping LP from Skullgirls.

Back Air - Incineroar performs a dropkick.

Up Air: Ember - Incineroar spits an ember upward as a small projectile attack.
Down Air - Incineroar performs a knee drop, dragging the opponent downward like with :4corrinf:'s D-Air.

Grab - Swipes with one of his claws, reaching for opponents. Pretty standard.

Pummel - Headbutts the opponent. One of the slowest, but strongest pummels.
Forward Throw - Incineroar spins and throws the opponent similar to :4mario::4luigi::4wario2:'s Back Throws.

Back Throw - Incineroar performs a suplex.

Up Throw - Incineroar performs a back breaker drop.

Down Throw - Incineroar performs a power bomb.

Neutral Special: Bulk Up - A stat buff special that must be charged. Temporarily boosts Incineroar's attack power and armor, allowing it tank even more moves and overpower them with it's own attacks like Darkest Lariat.
Side Special: Throat Chop - A strong move that puts opponents in a crumple state like :4ryu:'s Focus Attack, but is useless on Shields. Incineroar will take a big step forward when using this move similar to Street Fighter's Alex when using Flash Chop.

Up Special: Flame Charge - Incineroar pauses for a moment, builds up flames around his body and then lunges in the direction pressed.
Down Special: Darkest Lariat - Incinceroar's signature move. A spinning clothesline similar to :4luigi:'s Luigi Cyclone, but slower, and much stronger. This move has armor allowing it to power through weak attacks it collides with. It also continues past opponents even when it hits a shield.

Final Smash: Malicious Moonsault - Incineroar's special Z-Move. A short range attack to stun opponents followed by a cinematic Final Smash that pretty much plays out the same as it does in Pokemon Sun & Moon.
 
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I can't help but feel I've seen that Flame Charge concept somewhere.....


But still, interesting moveset concept.
 

Kirbeh

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I can't help but feel I've seen that Flame Charge concept somewhere.....

But still, interesting moveset concept.
Yeah, I knew that comparison would come up, but based on the moves Incineroar can learn, there aren't too many options.

It was either that or Flare Blitz which is already Zard's Side B. Though now that I think about I could've gone with Body Slam or Acrobatics as well. I was a bit too focused on moves that matched his typing. :facepalm:
 
D

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Yeah, remember that Pokémon don't have to use moves exclusive to their type in Smash. :V
 

Kirbeh

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Yeah, remember that Pokémon don't have to use moves exclusive to their type in Smash. :V
It's funny because I still gave him fighting type moves to match the wrestler motif and was actually going to add Vital Throw as a command grab even though Incineroar can't learn it. Then my mind blanked when I got to the Up Special and I just went with Flame Charge knowing it was probably too similar to Fire Fox/Bird.
 

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Flame Charge could be interesting though in the sense it would raise your speed to a certain extent like it does with Pokémon in-game, though not sure how that would translate with Smash balancing.
 

Kirbeh

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Flame Charge could be interesting though in the sense it would raise your speed to a certain extent like it does with Pokémon in-game, though not sure how that would translate with Smash balancing.
Incineroar would likely be pretty slow like it is in Pokemon, so that could maybe give it a small, temporary speed buff to keep things balanced. It's not the sort of move you'd be able to spam either since it'd put you in a helpless state in the air and has a lot of end lag on the ground if we go by how Fire Fox and Fire Bird already work.
 

NuzTheMonkey

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YES! GET ME UP ON THAT SUPPORT LIST!!!! THE BEST GEN 7 STARTER AND THE ONE I PICKED, SO IT DA BEST!
 

Blackwolf666

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Alright, been checking to see what pokemon I would support as a newcommer and Incineroar won me over. Nothing can possibly be more satisfying than killing someone with a pelvic thrust. Then there's the flaming clotheslines... it just sounds like so much fun.
 

Blackwolf666

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just a thought. what if Incineroar's running tackle was a clothesline that spikes? I know what you're thinking how can you ever take advantage of that. my answer make incineroar easy to pivot and able to grab while they're glued to the ground for that split second before they'd be sent flying upwards and also make it able to ko people the same way ganondorf does with his down aerial when damage is high enough. Then of course, if you can pull it off, spike someone at the edge of the stage and laugh at them.
 

Bowserlick

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Poking (and other sneaky moves) can turn off:
*Running
*Dodging
*2nd jump
*Shielding
 

Holder of the Heel

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Can I just have my Torracat instead pls? no? Ok...
Yeah I feel ya, Litten is my all time favorite. Though I do suppose having a kitten fighting on stage would be a bit much...

I'll take the next best thing Incineroar. Loved using him in Sun in-game and online. Final Smash, animations, distinct style... all of it begs to be fully realized in a fighting game. Probably would put him as my #1 right now in terms of desirability.

It was mentioned that the final evolution is disappointing because it became bipedal, and I really do get that, felt even at first. But seeing it in motion, all of the personality it gains, which becomes extra flavorful when you know the dex entries behind its attitude. Then I became happy that I was given something that I did not expect.
 

FalKoopa

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Poking (and other sneaky moves) can turn off:
*Running
*Dodging
*2nd jump
*Shielding
I think this might be hard to balance properly.

Instead of turning off some moves, a status effect like slowing down might be better. Or reversing the controls (for a few seconds) if you want hilarity.
 

PF9

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If Incineroar were to get in, a good Amiibo name would be Tiger Claw. I dare you to guess where that is from.
 

Bowserlick

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I think this might be hard to balance properly.

Instead of turning off some moves, a status effect like slowing down might be better. Or reversing the controls (for a few seconds) if you want hilarity.
You can create a blind state where the character holds a hand over its eyes and walks slower and jumps lower for a limited time.
 

Bowserlick

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Incineroar is a heavy grappler character. Three of his specials and one smash have grab commands and his other special move prevents himself from being grabbed while the move is charging. While his smashes are strong enough on their own to throw enemies out of the ring, he can add fire and explosion effects for additional crowd-pleasing carnage. The cat's mechanic allows him to turn any aerial into a falling, ground splashing attack for exciting finishing moves.

Incineroar Mechanic: Finishing Move
– If the (A) button is held during anyone of the cat’s aerial attacks, Incineroar plummets to the floor while performing the attack. He accelerates as long as the (A) button is held. The biggest knockback from the move comes from falling onto a ground opponent. The higher the distance when the feline performs the finishing move, the greater the damage and force.

Aerial Attacks and Finishing Moves

(Neutral Aerial) Performs a body splash similar to King DeDeDe’s neutral aerial. Low damage, pushes the opponent to the side.
(Neutral Finish Move) Splashes onto his stomach and chest and sends the opponent in a horizontal direction.

(Forward Aerial) Incineroar slaps in a downward arc with an open paw. Medium attack.
(Forward Finishing Move) Smacks his paw on the floor creating a small shockwave. Sends the opponent in an arc.

(Back Aerial) Incineroar laces together his paws into a hammerfist and swings his body backwards in an arc. This is an inverse DK’s forward aerial. The fist has a sweetspot meteor effect.
(Back Finishing Move) The cat lands on his back and curled fist. His back sends the opponent outwards, but his fist sends the enemy in a vertical manner for high knockback.

(Down Aerial) The cat laces together his paws and throws down an elbow. This has a meteor effect.
(Down Finishing Move) Lands on his elbow. This move does not have great range, but does tremendous shield damage. Sends the opponent in an arc.

(Up Aerial) The cat performs a vertical dropkick for good knock-back.
(Up Finishing Move) The cat lands on his shoulders and upper back. This is the weakest finishing move.

Specials

(B) Flame Charge – The cat strikes a beckoning pose as his body heats up.
• The heat counters any grab attempt and punishes the opponent with slight hitstun and damage.
• The charge makes Incineroar’s belt glow. The move adds fire effects to the next Smash move that is performed. A full charge adds an explosion.

(Side B) Acrobatics – Incineroar summons two poles attached with three ropes constructed from dark energy. Incineroar leans back on the ropes as the move is charged.
• Once released the cat shoots forward, body parallel to the floor with arms stretched outwards.
• The first part of the move grabs. If he grabs an enemy, he will somersault around them while moving and kick them off at the end.
• After the sweetspot passes, if no one is grabbed, the cat twirls in the air like a drill with outstretched claws inflicting multiple hits to the enemy like Metaknight’s side B.

(Up B) Brutal Swing– Incineroar leaps up in the air with an outstretched paw and grabs his enemy, swinging the victim downwards. Goes 2/3rd’s the distance of Wario’s corkscrew and can be slightly angled left or right in a similar fashion.

(Down B) Darkest Lariat
– The cat does one rotation in place and then shoots out his arms to either side of him for a grab attempt.
• Incineroar can grab one enemy with each hand.
• Once a grab is completed, Incineroar spins. The cat and his captured swinging prey can be moved left or right during the spin. Tapping B increases the duration and damage. At the end, Incineroar tosses the enemy or enemies.

Smashes

(Forward Smash) Incineroar laces his paws together, takes a step forward and brings down a hammerfist crashing to the floor.

(Down Smash) Incineroar jumps up, splits, and lands on his outstreched legs for a double-leg drop.

(Up Smash) Incineroar arcs both his paws over his head (which does slash damage on the sides) and laces together his claws.
• If the enemy is hit at the apex when the claws come together, Incineroar grabs them and performs a backbreaker, smashing them over his knee and flinging them to the side. High damage.

Attacks

(A)
Slashes.
(A, A) Slashes, and then throws out a knee.
(A,A,A) Slashes, throws out a knee and then performs a spinning backhand.

(Side A) Incineroar cross-slashes with his clawed paws. At the apex, the claws strike each other creating a jet of sparks.
• The slash does medium damage and knock-back.
• The sparks (if it hits the front of the opponent) causes brief stun.

(Up A) Performs a quick slashing uppercut.

(Crouch)
Crouches down on all fours like a cat ready to pounce. Can crawl.

(Down A) Lunges very far forward and swipes with a paw. Pops the enemy up, however the cat crashes onto his shoulder if he misses and suffers lag.

(Running A)
Performs a sliding clothesline. The sweetspot floors the opponent.

Throws
(Grab)
Grabs the opponent by neck and lifts them off the floor.
(Pummel) Jabs the enemy in the side with his unoccupied claws
(Down Throw) Choke slam.
(Up Throw) Three quick uppercuts to the gut, with the last one sending the enemy into the sky.
(Forward Throw) Kicks them forward.
(Back Throw) Releases the opponent, grabs the legs with cat-like reflexes and heaves them in one swing behind him.
[spoiler/]
 
Last edited:
D

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Incineroar is a heavy grappler character. Three of his specials and one smash have grab commands and his other special move prevents himself from being grabbed while the move is charging. While his smashes are strong enough on their own to throw enemies out of the ring, he can add fire and explosion effects for additional crowd-pleasing carnage. The cat's mechanic allows him to turn any aerial into a falling, ground splashing attack for exciting finishing moves.

Incineroar Mechanic: Finishing Move
– If the (A) button is held during anyone of the cat’s aerial attacks, Incineroar plummets to the floor while performing the attack. He accelerates as long as the (A) button is held. The biggest knockback from the move comes from falling onto a ground opponent. The higher the distance when the feline performs the finishing move, the greater the damage and force.

Aerial Attacks and Finishing Moves

(Neutral Aerial) Performs a body splash similar to King DeDeDe’s neutral aerial. Low damage, pushes the opponent to the side.
(Neutral Finish Move) Splashes onto his stomach and chest and sends the opponent in a horizontal direction.

(Forward Aerial) Incineroar slaps in a downward arc with an open paw. Medium attack.
(Forward Finishing Move) Smacks his paw on the floor creating a small shockwave. Sends the opponent in an arc.

(Back Aerial) Incineroar laces together his paws into a hammerfist and swings his body backwards in an arc. This is an inverse DK’s forward aerial. The fist has a sweetspot meteor effect.
(Back Finishing Move) The cat lands on his back and curled fist. His back sends the opponent outwards, but his fist sends the enemy in a vertical manner for high knockback.

(Down Aerial) The cat laces together his paws and throws down an elbow. This has a meteor effect.
(Down Finishing Move) Lands on his elbow. This move does not have great range, but does tremendous shield damage. Sends the opponent in an arc.

(Up Aerial) The cat performs a vertical dropkick for good knock-back.
(Up Finishing Move) The cat lands on his shoulders and upper back. This is the weakest finishing move.

Specials

(B) Flame Charge – The cat strikes a beckoning pose as his body heats up.
• The heat counters any grab attempt and punishes the opponent with slight hitstun and damage.
• The charge makes Incineroar’s belt glow. The move adds fire effects to the next Smash move that is performed. A full charge adds an explosion.

(Side B) Acrobatics – Incineroar summons two poles attached with three ropes constructed from dark energy. Incineroar leans back on the ropes as the move is charged.
• Once released the cat shoots forward, body parallel to the floor with arms stretched outwards.
• The first part of the move grabs. If he grabs an enemy, he will somersault around them while moving and kick them off at the end.
• After the sweetspot passes, if no one is grabbed, the cat twirls in the air like a drill with outstretched claws inflicting multiple hits to the enemy like Metaknight’s side B.

(Up B) Brutal Swing– Incineroar leaps up in the air with an outstretched paw and grabs his enemy, swinging the victim downwards. Goes 2/3rd’s the distance of Wario’s corkscrew and can be slightly angled left or right in a similar fashion.

(Down B) Darkest Lariat
– The cat does one rotation in place and then shoots out his arms to either side of him for a grab attempt.
• Incineroar can grab one enemy with each hand.
• Once a grab is completed, Incineroar spins. The cat and his captured swinging prey can be moved left or right during the spin. Tapping B increases the duration and damage. At the end, Incineroar tosses the enemy or enemies.

Smashes

(Forward Smash) Incineroar laces his paws together, takes a step forward and brings down a hammerfist crashing to the floor.

(Down Smash) Incineroar jumps up, splits, and lands on his outstreched legs for a double-leg drop.

(Up Smash) Incineroar arcs both his paws over his head (which does slash damage on the sides) and laces together his claws.
• If the enemy is hit at the apex when the claws come together, Incineroar grabs them and performs a backbreaker, smashing them over his knee and flinging them to the side. High damage.

Attacks

(A)
Slashes.
(A, A) Slashes, and then throws out a knee.
(A,A,A) Slashes, throws out a knee and then performs a spinning backhand.

(Side A) Incineroar cross-slashes with his clawed paws. At the apex, the claws strike each other creating a jet of sparks.
• The slash does medium damage and knock-back.
• The sparks (if it hits the front of the opponent) causes brief stun.

(Up A) Performs a quick slashing uppercut.

(Crouch)
Crouches down on all fours like a cat ready to pounce. Can crawl.

(Down A) Lunges very far forward and swipes with a paw. Pops the enemy up, however the cat crashes onto his shoulder if he misses and suffers lag.

(Running A)
Performs a sliding clothesline. The sweetspot floors the opponent.

Throws
(Grab)
Grabs the opponent by neck and lifts them off the floor.
(Pummel) Jabs the enemy in the side with his unoccupied claws
(Down Throw) Choke slam.
(Up Throw) Three quick uppercuts to the gut, with the last one sending the enemy into the sky.
(Forward Throw) Kicks them forward.
(Back Throw) Releases the opponent, grabs the legs with cat-like reflexes and heaves them in one swing behind him.
[spoiler/]
Not bad at all.

I feel part of Incineroar's thing should be like Tekken's King where he can do multiple slams per grab if the action is timed right. Really emphasize the grappling aspect of his character in comparison to other characters.
 

Desdar300

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@Rider Gwen
How's that moveset you were making coming along?

Don't forget to include a reference to Asian mist.
Its concept art shows it doing something like it.


EDIT: As well as a move where it smashes a table onto someone.

Those are staples in hardcore matches where people use weapons like chairs, tables, ladders, etc.
Just gonna copy-paste what I translated on Bulbapedia
1. He has a wild and gutsy persona
2. He fights dirty- spits embers in his opponents face, isn't above using unconventional items or means, uses Fire Spin from its belt.
3. His belt gets hotter the more passionate he is.
5. It says that he has the move Brutal Swing
Basically he's Tiger Zangief with a heel motif.
 
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Just gonna copy-paste what I translated on Bulbapedia
1. He has a wild and gutsy persona
2. He fights dirty- spits embers in his opponents face, isn't above using unconventional items or means, uses Fire Spin from its belt.
3. His belt gets hotter the more passionate he is.
5. It says that he has the move Brutal Swing
Basically he's Tiger Zangief with a heel motif.
I distinctly see the name "Tiger Swing" (タイがースイング) for the bottom right corner, which was also used for the TCG in both English and Japanese. With the table smash and the backbreaker right above it both starting with "Tiger" as well. Kanji has never been my strong suit, but it irks me that I can't translate the backbreaker since it's in Katakana.

Can you help me out here? I'd love to be able to finally have "official" names for Incineroar's "Tiger" special techniques.
 
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