Dedede Tactical Strategy 20 - IC's Desynchs

[CO18]

Add aim: "mcabreact" play neo lets see how many times you gimp him. Also crashic why would the marth double jump when getting down thrown? Thats just a dumb marth -.- lol

 

[o-Serin-o]

I've been trying to play Neo for the longest. He never replies. Wait, I though I had 777 posts? o.O What the ****?

 

[choknater]

But CG'ing Marth is a ***** D=

mostly cuz they can up-B out right? but if u block it..

ahhh guessing game

lets just cg marth perfectly :D

 

[T3h Albino]

put in a good word for me co lol. Ill try and get in touch with neo this week

 

[CO18]

I dont mess up cging offline at all. Its really not that hard to cg marth imo. Luigi isnt hard for me either.

Only pit using up+b is hard.

 

[CRASHiC]

Really? What exactly is hard about the up b? Is it the air?

 

[T3h Albino]

**** wing push is annoying lol

 

[o-Serin-o]

Simple trick to Pit's Up-B.

If you know he's going to do it, Fullhop a Fair.

 

[Sensei Seibrik]

You cant edgeguard marth unless theyre stupid or were forced to use their double jump already, most u can get is chip damage with waddle dees or if you time it right grab the ledge then punish him as hes forced to up+B over the ledge(which u still cant get all the time)

Though whats the point of doing down throw ftilt for like what 14$? When you can just cg for
20-40 then back throw for another 16?

the point isn't damage as i've said, its about staying in and keeping your range where you want it, throwing him back might give you a bit more % now but will ultimately ruin ur spacing game and put the battle back into neutral position, which is happier for marth than being cornered by a properly spaced DDD.


essentially


___________DDD__M=happy DDD
___DDD________M__=happy marth

waddles dont work cuz smart marths will bait the waddles the punish the enormous ending lag before you can shield.

so its almost always best to say just in ftilt range. less damage NOW from d-throw, but more damage in the long run with less chances to GET damaged.

Think with a brawl mindset, not a melee one.

besides, this thread so far is how to deal with Marth's spacing, not how to damage him fastest. My method, from what i've noticed, is the best way to keep marth's spacing at bay.

 

[o-Serin-o]

Fullhop Waddle throws a bit less punishable.

And more or less, you're right. I got a little off track >.<

 

[Sensei Seibrik]

full hope waddles are prolly more punishable since now ur giving marth a strait run shot to ur face.

 

[Gates]

Throwing Waddle Dees in general is kind of dumb unless you're using it as a followup to an attack and you know they can't punish or you're using them as projectile shields against characters like Toon Link or Snake. Whenever I throw a Waddle Dee, unless the character is slow as **** like Ganon or something, I almost always get punished for it. It's the biggest reason why I didn't put Waddle Dee Toss in my flowchart.

 

[smasher01]

Throwing Waddle Dees in general is kind of dumb unless you're using it as a followup to an attack and you know they can't punish or you're using them as projectile shields against characters like Toon Link or Snake. Whenever I throw a Waddle Dee, unless the character is slow as **** like Ganon or something, I almost always get punished for it. It's the biggest reason why I didn't put Waddle Dee Toss in my flowchart.

Thats why you Waddle Dee Toss when your spaced away from your foe
also with f tilt.

lol dont expect to start a chain of hits from throwing a Waddle Dee.

 

[Jupz]

Great info guys! We have like 4 pages of Marth discussion.

Any ideas for the next topic?

 

[haloman800]

Olimar's side B?

Also, what does "bait the IAP" on Falco's lasers topic mean?

 

[∫unk]

Oh yeah, I do that up b punish by using something seibrik proposed in the metagame thread.

Chaingrab to edge, downthrow, intercept their jump with ftilt, then the marth will up b, then I forward air. I love it

EDIT- Wow, aren't we productive lately.

Also Serin, its sometimes good make a Marth think you can't chaingrab him. He'll have the up b ready, then you punish it.

okay so u intercept their jump then they do a unsweetspot up cause u ledge grab? I don't get it. Either way sounds like the marth is jumpin into the **** which doesn't happen with great marths very often.

as far as the cg u can listen to their controller or watch it when u pummel once then u know what they're doing gg

 

[∫unk]

You cant edgeguard marth unless theyre stupid or were forced to use their double jump already, most u can get is chip damage with waddle dees or if you time it right grab the ledge then punish him as hes forced to up+B over the ledge(which u still cant get all the time)

Though whats the point of doing down throw ftilt for like what 14$? When you can just cg for
20-40 then back throw for another 16?

Or f throw for 13 and now ur still at advantage, unlike b throw which puts the situation in neutral.

Like co said edgeguarding a good marth is really all they have to do is react to what you're doing.

That's why I like f-throw cause then you're dealing with marth coming down off stage or him on the ledge both are good for you.

Edit: if marth starts doing spaced retreating falling neutral airs and u want to grab u should spotdodge cause the shield knockback makes it almost impossble to grab even on a powershield

 

[o-Serin-o]

full hope waddles are prolly more punishable since now ur giving marth a strait run shot to ur face.

Oh, sorry I meant to say that if you angle them down and double jump/fullhop, its a bit less punishable.


Also, next topic, Ledgecampers.

 

[Gates]

Also, next topic, Ledgecampers.

How to deal with ledgecampers:

Get your TOs to institute a ledgegrab limit so they can only "air plank" you instead of actual planking.

End of discussion.

As for what we should discuss next week, I agree with Olimar's sideB.

 

[Jupz]

ok olimars side B discussion go!!!


ill update the OP on the weekend with the grabs and marths topics.

 

[CRASHiC]

You WANT to get hit by his side b. Here is why.

Olimar camps the edge like a *****. However, we also live for ever like a *****, with the only real threat for a KO being the purple Olimar. If you allow him to hit you with his side b, attaching pikman to you, then you use uptilt to kill all pikman attached, he will be forced to pull pikman, which is when he is most vulnerable. That's how I view it. A good oli is rare though. So I'd rather hear a more experienced DDD discuss this than me.

 

[T3h Albino]

i play this match agressive as hell. I rush through them and go for the grab. Knowing sometimes he'll spot dodge because im rushing him i get the grab > offstage > damage rack/gimp.

 

[Tekk]

i play this match agressive as hell. I rush through them and go for the grab. Knowing sometimes he'll spot dodge because im rushing him i get the grab > offstage > damage rack/gimp.

**** YEAH

...Sorry xD

What I usually do is simply staying in the air and doing Fairs to kill the pikmins, then I land on the ground while he's picking another pikmins up and I grab/FF'd bair him.
...But Oli's usually **** me, so....xD

 

[Commander_Beef]

If we don't want to put up tilt in the attack queue, it's better to do up-airs to detach the Pikmin. I usually don't try to hit the Pikmin off except the white ones because it stalls time and I would rather not distract myself from my approach to Olimar since it can be hard sometimes because we are slow. I usually ignore the Pikmin attacking me in that way and try to keep Olimar off the ground as much as possible instead, because it's a hard otherwise.
Never try to match Olimar's projectile with yours because ours is so laggy and a single waddle dee toss can only block one Pikmin thrown, and next thing you know, you'll have two more Pikmin on you. Only occasionally throw a waddle dee.

 

[∫unk]

Waddle dees fail in general

 

[o-Serin-o]

Waddle Dees are epic. Wtf are you talking about?

 

[Commander_Beef]

Waddle dees fail in general

Waddle dees do not fail... only the lag of the move does.

 

[Sensei Seibrik]

In Hale.

That is all.

 

[T3h Albino]

killin pikmin like a boss

 

[o-Serin-o]

Inhale? Really? If you inhale Olimar's Fsmash, it acts like a ****ing missile. >.<

Holy **** Alby, you changed your avatar... into... a rapper I don't know >.>

 

[T3h Albino]

Corleone 4 lyf

 

[o-Serin-o]

=x Exactly. =D

 

[Sensei Seibrik]

fsmash, and spaced usmash are just about the whole moves to beat inhale, everything else, including grabs, and about 80% of his evasive manuevers get beaten by inhale.

also if u inhale his 2nd jump after a d-throw, and walk off low, and shoot
he doesnt get his jump back, and can barely even reach the ledge with his up b, regardless of if ur hogging it.

woo legit gimps..


IN HALE!

 

[Technodeath]

that's something handy to keep in mind, thanks Seib. i only recently picked D3 up, so im learning things here and there.

 

[.AC.]

fsmash, and spaced usmash are just about the whole moves to beat inhale, everything else, including grabs, and about 80% of his evasive manuevers get beaten by inhale.

also if u inhale his 2nd jump after a d-throw, and walk off low, and shoot
he doesnt get his jump back, and can barely even reach the ledge with his up b, regardless of if ur hogging it.

woo legit gimps..


IN HALE!

wow nice advice.

 

[Tekk]

Yea Inhale actually works well on olimars...
But this freaking Side B is so annoying, I go from 0% to 69 in like 5 seconds...

 

[Jupz]

Yeah the side B racks up damage extremely fast. Remember attacking with Utilt decays it and using Uair is not a good idea as if you short hop it you get lag and if you fullhop it he can come under and usmash you. Sh Nair doesn't deal enough damage but isn't that bad. Fair is a very good idea and its what I usually use.

Nice ideas seibrik.

 

[Sensei Seibrik]

I usually use nair or bair depending where on my body the pickmen are, cuz i like to stay in the air and destroy them as i approach, stnading still with utilt makes urself to stationary, he's just gona side b you again.

so i take the little extra damage i get from the possible two moves i have to do isntead of one, but at least im closing distance and im not in range of his side b again.

getting from 0-69 in 5 seconds isn't a big deal since it USUALLY only happens about once a stock, since once i do get in, i usually stay in, and he can't rack up much damage after that OR kill me until about 130-140 with a fresh move and good DI.

meanwhile olimar runs the risk at dying at 20 just from BEING olimar.



another reason why inhale is so good to edgeguard, is cuz half the time they're waiting for attacks to time their down b for, and since they have super armor, and inhale is a grab, inhale always wins no question.

then when they give up on down b mid match, thats when u throw in the bair.

always edgeguard backwards, and use reverse inhale, that way they always have to guess when ur bairing or inhaling.

 

[T3h Albino]

thats really ****ing smart. Inhaling backwards to mindgame the olimar <___<

 

[Commander_Beef]

Man... where have you been Albino? B-reversalling inhale should be part of your game already, as it is in mine -_-.

If you inhale Olimar's Fsmash, it acts like a ****ing missile. >.<

LOL!! You're funny when you're mad .
I'm never funny when I'm in a bad mood or when some people here almost make it permament on me.