Deconfirmed characters that keep you salty?

[Ice-N-Space]

Color Splash came out wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy later. It's the same Toad used since Melee, the one from the regular Mario games. They never really updated Toad other than him using more moves. And sometimes can go Metal along with Peach. It's pretty much the Super Mario Bros. 2/Mario Kart/Wario's Woods Toad, the main one overall(but does look enough like your usual SMB1 Toad along with other games that don't use the Main Toad that it's not clear). In addition to that, the Toad in Smash specifically is the one who is under Peach(whether they mean a generic Bodyguard or not is hard to say because the Trophies reference both the generic ones and the Main Toad on different occasions). Either way, we'll never know unless they make a clear decision on which one he is. The problem with Daisy's one is that costume at times was used for the Main Toad, so it seems like they're just both using the two most prominent colors and that's all of note.

Yes, I misremembered the animations. They never came off as terribly different to me, though. They're both throwing a body into the enemy in a downwards motion. Though looking at it again, they're a similar concept anyway. The animations are different due to two different models, but it's pretty much the same concept in usage. No different from how Ganondorf's new Smashes are very similar to the ones in Brawl/4. Though his have slightly different conceptual changes and hitboxes. They're still rather similar at times, especially the Down Smash. The other two don't have extreme changes, but are definitely different to some degree.

"Puts opponent lying face-down on the ground and sits on him/her, knocking them upwards. Good for combos."
"After putting the opponent on the ground, Toad leaps up and headbutts them, sending them upward and behind Peach. Good for starting combos, as it can lead to her back air and forward tilt at low to mid percents."
Quoting aside, these really don't sound that different from each other. Absolutely different animations due to the model factor, so that's true. But I was thinking conceptually they're similar, which was more my train of thought. I clearly said that poorly and I apologize.

This animation theory of yours isn't very good I guess Peach's old down throw is a similar animation to Bowser Bomb both go up and down and use their body to attack... and there is no way I can see Ganondorf's smashes being similar to his smash 4 smashes.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

This animation theory of yours isn't very good I guess Peach's old down throw is a similar animation to Bowser Bomb both go up and down and use their body to attack... and there is no way I can see Ganondorf's smashes being similar to his smash 4 smashes.

...What animation theory? That's not something I was ever getting at. Now, I did missay it in the first post too. I clearly misspoke, as I was referring to how they have similar moves in concept. It also has nothing to do with completely different characters, so the analogies don't fit any context at all. Though there are cases of multiple characters using effectively the same move but different animations, but eh.

But if you want an actual case of two characters using similar moves that are conceptually similar yet different animations, Luigi's Luigi Missile and Pikachu/Pichu's Skull Bush are more or less the same point. They're different in how they work in many ways, but they're the same concept. Charging yourself for a bit and then moving forward like a projectile at the enemy. That's really the difference between Peach's Down Smashes. Likewise, Peach's Forward B is basically throwing herself like a projectile into the enemy, but it doesn't have the ability to charge nor the range. They're similar concepts from the other Forward B's, but still distinct in some way. Incidentally, that's the difference between the Down Throw's. Their animations(slight differences in things like damage and knockback are a thing too), which just has a different character do practically the same move, but in different ways. One lands on them with their hip. One lands on them with their head. In pretty much the same overall way. If Bowser used his Bowser Bomb as a Down Throw like Peach used her Hip, those would be very similar down throw concepts too. They're both slamming into the opponent with a part of their body like a projectile(instead of using a kick, punch, or a weapon, or even an elemental projectile). That's not heavily different ideas. So once again, this isn't an animation theory, but a concept move theory.

I honestly can't explain it any better, anyway. Well, if you don't understand what I mean, fair enough. *shrugs*

 

[Ice-N-Space]

...What animation theory? That's not something I was ever getting at. Now, I did missay it in the first post too. I clearly misspoke, as I was referring to how they have similar moves in concept. It also has nothing to do with completely different characters, so the analogies don't fit any context at all. Though there are cases of multiple characters using effectively the same move but different animations, but eh.

But if you want an actual case of two characters using similar moves that are conceptually similar yet different animations, Luigi's Luigi Missile and Pikachu/Pichu's Skull Bush are more or less the same point. They're different in how they work in many ways, but they're the same concept. Charging yourself for a bit and then moving forward like a projectile at the enemy. That's really the difference between Peach's Down Smashes. Likewise, Peach's Forward B is basically throwing herself like a projectile into the enemy, but it doesn't have the ability to charge nor the range. They're similar concepts from the other Forward B's, but still distinct in some way. Incidentally, that's the difference between the Down Throw's. Their animations(slight differences in things like damage and knockback are a thing too), which just has a different character do practically the same move, but in different ways. One lands on them with their hip. One lands on them with their head. In pretty much the same overall way. If Bowser used his Bowser Bomb as a Down Throw like Peach used her Hip, those would be very similar down throw concepts too. They're both slamming into the opponent with a part of their body like a projectile(instead of using a kick, punch, or a weapon, or even an elemental projectile). That's not heavily different ideas. So once again, this isn't an animation theory, but a concept move theory.

I honestly can't explain it any better, anyway. Well, if you don't understand what I mean, fair enough. *shrugs*

Yeah sure, a toad popping out of thin air falling then poofing into smoke is so like Peach, Peach who is just standing there now doing nothing so similar to what she did before... nothing.

 

[Quillion]

Actually I do sympathize with Ice-N-Space . People like the way animations are done beforehand and get upset when it's changed. I still think Bowser and Ganondorf had their best animations in Melee and 4 respectively; the former because Bowser was so primal and monstrous, the latter because Ganondorf wasn't pulling out a weapon because he didn't need one.

If there's anything I'm salty about, it's how Bowser, Link, and Ganondorf are changed when people liked their older animations. Though I'm still holding out for a "Classic Link" echo with Link's old moveset.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

Yeah sure, a toad popping out of thin air falling then poofing into smoke is so like Peach, Peach who is just standing there now doing nothing so similar to what she did before... nothing.

It is a very Peach-like thing to do. Toads are her caretakers. They are supposed to guard her (and often fail at doing so). Don't know why are you having a hard time believing this when this can be seen in several Mario games. The Smash team clearly derived from this idea when coming up with those moves and animations.

Smash also isn't the first nor last game to summon other characters as part of a fighter's moveset.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Gonna be honest, us Toad fans wish Peach never added Toad to her moveset either. He'd most likely be a more popular/obvious choice if not for this half way playable nonsense.

Ultimate's update is a little more dignified than Melee/brawl/For but I'd take a moveset removal happily over this half assed playable schtick.

FREE HIM.

Daisy having Toad as well really just draws attention to how unfleshed out Daisy and her kingdom actually is. Give her her own subjects already.

 

[Ben Holt]

Gonna be honest, us Toad fans wish Peach never added Toad to her moveset either. He'd most likely be a more popular/obvious choice if not for this half way playable nonsense.

Ultimate's update is a little more dignified than Melee/brawl/For but I'd take a moveset removal happily over this half ***** playable schtick.

FREE HIM.

Daisy having Toad as well really just draws attention to how unfleshed out Daisy and her kingdom actually is. Give her her own subjects already.

Chrom gives me hope.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Chrom gives me hope.

"Anything can change!"

*Toad, Tom Nook and Fiora fans hope intensifies*

 

[ZAHÍRITΣiΚΛ]

Shadow. It still hurts to this day.

 

[Commendedzuez09]

Toad, Toad, and did I mention Toad?

 

[Laniv]

Toad, Shadow, and Tom Nook are my three big ones, but Bomberman being an Assist Trophy was the first one that really stung.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

Gonna be honest, us Toad fans wish Peach never added Toad to her moveset either. He'd most likely be a more popular/obvious choice if not for this half way playable nonsense.

Ultimate's update is a little more dignified than Melee/brawl/For but I'd take a moveset removal happily over this half ***** playable schtick.

FREE HIM.

Daisy having Toad as well really just draws attention to how unfleshed out Daisy and her kingdom actually is. Give her her own subjects already.

I'm 90% sure that if Toad wasn't in Peach's moveset, he would still not be in Smash. The fact that he is not in at this point clearly shows that he just hasn't drawn that much attention from Nintendo and the Smash team.

It's kinda silly to blame Peach's moveset for that, because that is just an unhealthy coping mechanism people come up with because they don't know how to handle their resentment.

 

[Arymle Roseanne]

I'm 90% sure that if Toad wasn't in Peach's moveset, he would still not be in Smash. The fact that he is not in at this point clearly shows that he just hasn't drawn that much attention from Nintendo and the Smash team.

It's kinda silly to blame Peach's moveset for that, because that is just an unhealthy coping mechanism people come up with because they don't know how to handle their resentment.

I kinda agree with that since Chrom already broke the being part someone's move set and canonically in Mario there's multiple Toads so it's not like that's stopping him from being able to become playable.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I kinda agree with that since Chrom already broke the being part someone's move set and canonically in Mario there's multiple Toads so it's not like that's stopping him from being able to become playable.

It's a bit of a different situation. Toad is a very active character in the moveset. Chrom only shows up in a cutscene-based Final Smash, so rarely is in gameplay. And well, the Victory Screens. Mario also shows up separately in Piranha Plant's victory screen.

It's a matter of what is treated as "too much like the separately playable model", if you will. Characters who are outright active in the main moveset mean they're onscreen often enough that one can argue they're "too easy to confuse with the playable character". Which may be part of why. But it's more likely that beyond that, Toad's issue is "something they and only they can do", a criteria Sakurai has used before. In other words, Toad's unique moves are possibly the problem. He really doesn't stand out by having his own key abilities from the rest of the Mario cast. Whereas some got in early enough where this wasn't that big of a deal. As the game gets bigger, less newcomers come in. So unique factors can be important too. Chrom literally didn't make it in Smash 4 because he couldn't stand out from Marth or Ike(being somewhat of a combination of both) compared to Robin. Lucina was luckily already a costume and was easy to make into a clone at that point. Captain Toad has some unique stuff alone, so he may have a better chance at this point(and I don't mean just cause Toad is a major part of someone's moveset either), but who knows. He's been reduced to a background element with even lesser of a role than Toad(to be fair, Toad is more active in the Mario games as a whole anyway. And I don't mean the race, but the main Toad in this case).

I'd love to see Toad playable too. But I can see where Sakurai is coming from. Giving him something that another Mario character can't typically do is a bit more difficult. Not just making up moves either, but something he can do alone that at most only another Toad can do(as the race doesn't really do a lot of different things from the main Toad, making it pretty easy to just use whatever they can find among the race and core version of the character respectively). Even if it's just a quick mechanic, it can make an entirely unique moveset off of it. I've seen some really neat movesets too, but most of them required using items that aren't specific to Toad or made-up abilities. There's no denying they're creative and cool, though~ He's honestly the only other missing core Mario-series character to me(Waluigi is the other). Oddly enough, I thought he'd be back before Dr. Mario returned in another game(before Ultimate existed, anyway). Boy, did I call that wrong. XD

 

[YoshiandToad]

I'm 90% sure that if Toad wasn't in Peach's moveset, he would still not be in Smash. The fact that he is not in at this point clearly shows that he just hasn't drawn that much attention from Nintendo and the Smash team.

It's kinda silly to blame Peach's moveset for that, because that is just an unhealthy coping mechanism people come up with because they don't know how to handle their resentment.

Fan demand for Toad was pretty damn high during Post Melee, Brawl and For. Fan demand died out every single time Peach was shown to use Toad in her moveset again.

So yeah, I do actually believe fan demand for Toad would have been higher had he not been included in this semi playable status where for some people that's 'good enough'.

The excitement people had post Melee about the Toad unlock rumour alone proves he was at one point pretty desired by the fan base.

Also, side note: the entire point of this thread is to talk about deconfirmations that make you salty. That's the point. Bemoaning me for pointing to a thing and going "well that deconfirms the character I wanted" seems redundant.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

Fan demand for Toad was pretty damn high during Post Melee, Brawl and For. Fan demand died out every single time Peach was shown to use Toad in her moveset again.

So yeah, I do actually believe fan demand for Toad would have been higher had he not been included in this semi playable status where for some people that's 'good enough'.

The excitement people had post Melee about the Toad unlock rumour alone proves he was at one point pretty desired by the fan base.

About fan demand, that actually gets vastly overestimated for certain characters. And if Peach's Neutral B was enough to quell it, then perhaps people didn't want him as much as you think. And I'm pretty sure that the fanbase and Nintendo held other characters in higher priority at the time.

Also, side note: the entire point of this thread is to talk about deconfirmations that make you salty. That's the point. Bemoaning me for pointing to a thing and going "well that deconfirms the character I wanted" seems redundant.

Then why reply back if you are afraid of discussion? This isn't the unpopular opinions thread where people would tell you "it's disrespectful to argue my opinion because the rules say so". I think you miss the point of what a forum is supposed to be.

 

[Alicorn]

I heard Toon Zelda was suppose to be in Smash 4 still kind of disappointed about that

 

[YoshiandToad]

About fan demand, that actually gets vastly overestimated for certain characters. And if Peach's Neutral B was enough to quell it, then perhaps people didn't want him as much as you think. And I'm pretty sure that the fanbase and Nintendo held other characters in higher priority at the time.



Then why reply back if you are afraid of discussion? This isn't the unpopular opinions thread where people would tell you "it's disrespectful to argue my opinion because the rules say so". I think you miss the point of what a forum is supposed to be.

I'm not afraid of discussion, I'm just unlikely to have my mind changed by your comments and your 90% sure comment makes it seem a fruitless task to bother trying to change yours?

Clearly I want Toad as a fighter and think he'd be a great addition to the Nintendo cast as one of the last missing major faces of the company alongside Dixie, Dee, Tom Nook and Waluigi. Not sure what talking with you about it is going to change having him as my most wanted since Smash 64, but if you really want to we can discuss the merits of Toad at lengths via PM. I'm always up for that.

That said, there's a few people who mentioned this so I'm going to hit some spoiler tags on this.

Spoiler: Regarding Toad moveset potential for those who do want to read some thoughts on him.

Regarding a lack of moveset potential; there's characters with far less moveset potential and fan demand even amongst the Mario crew currently in. Doc is just pre-FLUDD Mario with pills and a few stat tweaks. Daisy literally has nothing unique to her name. Not even her own civilians, which again, is a shame, Daisy needs her kingdom fleshed out more.

Toad meanwhile at least has Wario's Woods and Captain Toad to fall back on for inspiration.

Some of his more unique abilities from these games are;

• Being unaffected by gravity and able to walk up walls,
• Picking up multiple objects at once
• Booting bombs and general immunity to said bombs.
• Using the spore counter Sakurai helped coin alongside Mario Tennis 64 playing with the spore idea and Mario Sports Mix fiddling with it too.
• Minecarts. Yes, DK and Crash also use minecarts but Captain Toad also has minecarts he can still attack from.
• Super pickaxes/Mario Maker hammers as Captain Toad's invincible weapon/The Toads being construction workers for both Mario Maker 2 and the latest Mario Kart Tour adverts.
• Pull switches
• His double cherries(which are used in both 3D World where the Captain had a playable debut and Treasure Tracker itself

• If specifically the Captain you have the additional use of a blinding headlamp, a potential weight altering mechanic with the backpack, turnip cannons and the, IMO, intriguing task of how they translate the whole 'no jump' thing(even though Captain has canonically jumped both in his own game and even wall jumped at speed in Mario Galaxy, but people ignore tend to ignore this).

• Then there's Toadette who has the unique Peachette form, but seems unlikely to get in prior to her counterpart. I feel it'd be like adding Waluigi before Wario or Daisy before Peach.

There's a lot of things you could easily get Toad to do just from those two starring games.
Sakurai not doing it isn't really all that different from any other time he overlooked someone obvious because he had a different vision for them. Villager, Pac-Man, Ridley... Sakurai's stance was non playable was preferrable until someone or something changed his mind.

The hardest choice is deciding which direction to go with him:

Speedy rushdown grappler like SMB2/3D World/Wario's Woods?
Tiny super heavyweight with a large toolkit to pull from like in Treasure Tracker?
Perhaps we capitalize on him being one of the most popular Mario Karters and do a Captain Falcon with some fun item translations?
Or how about we use his existence as one of many(similar to Yoshi) and have him do what Peach does and summon dozens of Toads to overwhelm the opponent with flashy area of attack abilities?
RNG character based off his role as the Mario Party host?

The options for Toad, much like the amount of Toads in Nintendo's Mario games, are endless.

Sorry that was so long, but I've got tons more to say on this particular icon.

 

[Blackwolf666]

never been salty over anyone's disconfirmation. But I guess the onesI felt the most disappointment over seeing them as assist trophies (even if it lasted a short time) Shovel Knight, Krystal, Isaac and Bomberman.

 

[Quillion]

If we need any Toad, I just want the Captain. He at least has unique and cool things going for him other than a mess of various spinoff stuff.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

I'm not afraid of discussion, I'm just unlikely to have my mind changed by your comments and your 90% sure comment makes it seem a fruitless task to bother trying to change yours?

Clearly I want Toad as a fighter and think he'd be a great addition to the Nintendo cast as one of the last missing major faces of the company alongside Dixie, Dee, Tom Nook and Waluigi. Not sure what talking with you about it is going to change having him as my most wanted since Smash 64, but if you really want to we can discuss the merits of Toad at lengths via PM. I'm always up for that.

That said, there's a few people who mentioned this so I'm going to hit some spoiler tags on this.

Spoiler: Regarding Toad moveset potential for those who do want to read some thoughts on him.

Regarding a lack of moveset potential; there's characters with far less moveset potential and fan demand even amongst the Mario crew currently in. Doc is just pre-FLUDD Mario with pills and a few stat tweaks. Daisy literally has nothing unique to her name. Not even her own civilians, which again, is a shame, Daisy needs her kingdom fleshed out more.

Toad meanwhile at least has Wario's Woods and Captain Toad to fall back on for inspiration.

Some of his more unique abilities from these games are;

• Being unaffected by gravity and able to walk up walls,
• Picking up multiple objects at once
• Booting bombs and general immunity to said bombs.
• Using the spore counter Sakurai helped coin alongside Mario Tennis 64 playing with the spore idea and Mario Sports Mix fiddling with it too.
• Minecarts. Yes, DK and Crash also use minecarts but Captain Toad also has minecarts he can still attack from.
• Super pickaxes/Mario Maker hammers as Captain Toad's invincible weapon/The Toads being construction workers for both Mario Maker 2 and the latest Mario Kart Tour adverts.
• Pull switches
• His double cherries(which are used in both 3D World where the Captain had a playable debut and Treasure Tracker itself

• If specifically the Captain you have the additional use of a blinding headlamp, a potential weight altering mechanic with the backpack, turnip cannons and the, IMO, intriguing task of how they translate the whole 'no jump' thing(even though Captain has canonically jumped both in his own game and even wall jumped at speed in Mario Galaxy, but people ignore tend to ignore this).

• Then there's Toadette who has the unique Peachette form, but seems unlikely to get in prior to her counterpart. I feel it'd be like adding Waluigi before Wario or Daisy before Peach.

There's a lot of things you could easily get Toad to do just from those two starring games.
Sakurai not doing it isn't really all that different from any other time he overlooked someone obvious because he had a different vision for them. Villager, Pac-Man, Ridley... Sakurai's stance was non playable was preferrable until someone or something changed his mind.

The hardest choice is deciding which direction to go with him:

Speedy rushdown grappler like SMB2/3D World/Wario's Woods?
Tiny super heavyweight with a large toolkit to pull from like in Treasure Tracker?
Perhaps we capitalize on him being one of the most popular Mario Karters and do a Captain Falcon with some fun item translations?
Or how about we use his existence as one of many(similar to Yoshi) and have him do what Peach does and summon dozens of Toads to overwhelm the opponent with flashy area of attack abilities?
RNG character based off his role as the Mario Party host?

The options for Toad, much like the amount of Toads in Nintendo's Mario games, are endless.

Sorry that was so long, but I've got tons more to say on this particular icon.

I wasn't trying to change your mind. I was stating my opinion and my thoughts on the matter. Take it or leave it. Your also not going to change my mind about expressing disdain at certain attitudes I've noticed within the fanbase over the years about requesting characters.


I'm always open for discussion, but I'm not terribly interested in Toad as a character in Smash to discuss a moveset for him, so I'll pass on the offer. For me, Toad is less of a "OMG I need this character" and more of a "Eh, sure, why not?" pick.

Scapegoating Peach's Neutral Special is still silly though.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Dixie, her absence has bugged me since Smash 4. She was supposedly planned for Brawl, then dropped altogether. I don't see why, she has all the reasons to be in.

Isaac too, because I still believe he was teased at with the Rathalos 'Golden Sun battle formation' picture. There's also a lot more Golden Sun content, even if Golden Sun is more dead right now than it was when Smash 4 was new. I see no reason to exclude him now.

Impa too, but she was just unlucky with her role in Breath of the Wild, where the roles of BotW and Skyward Sword flipped, am sure she would've made it. Still think it's weird she missed out on being a Echo Fighter honestly.

 

[Arthur97]

As far as Dixie, since she was apparently planned as a tag team with Diddy, they probably haven't considered her much on her own. Oh well, there's always Smash 6.

 

[Curious Villager]

I heard Toon Zelda was suppose to be in Smash 4 still kind of disappointed about that

Toon Zelda was planned for Brawl but then cut due to time constraints.

It would have been nice to see all the planned characters included that couldn't quite make it in past Smash games due to time constraints or technical difficulties etc (Except replace Toon Sheik with Tetra and we're cool...)

 

[Rangez]

Dixie, her absence has bugged me since Smash 4. She was supposedly planned for Brawl, then dropped altogether. I don't see why, she has all the reasons to be in.

Isaac too, because I still believe he was teased at with the Rathalos 'Golden Sun battle formation' picture. There's also a lot more Golden Sun content, even if Golden Sun is more dead right now than it was when Smash 4 was new. I see no reason to exclude him now.

Impa too, but she was just unlucky with her role in Breath of the Wild, where the roles of BotW and Skyward Sword flipped, am sure she would've made it. Still think it's weird she missed out on being a Echo Fighter honestly.

The only reason Dixie was cut back in Brawl was due to a tag-team concept of her alongside Diddy akin the original DKC trilogy that didn't pan out well because some techincal issues with the idea.

 

[Arthur97]

I would rather just have Tetra and cut the Zelda part altogether probably. Unless you want to bring back the two in one concept.

 

[Lenidem]

I would rather just have Tetra and cut the Zelda part altogether probably. Unless you want to bring back the two in one concept.

Tetra would be more than fine by herself - she would be great. Toon Zelda ? What's the point ?

 

[Diddy Kong]

The only reason Dixie was cut back in Brawl was due to a tag-team concept of her alongside Diddy akin the original DKC trilogy that didn't pan out well because some techincal issues with the idea.

That likely would've resulted in the Diddy / Dixie tagteam being removed from Smash 4 as well, because they also couldn't handle the Ice Climbers on that system (technically, only the 3DS tho).

No reason they couldn't have made her a semi-clone after this though...

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

That likely would've resulted in the Diddy / Dixie tagteam being removed from Smash 4 as well, because they also couldn't handle the Ice Climbers on that system (technically, only the 3DS tho).

No reason they couldn't have made her a semi-clone after this though...

Only reason I can think of is Sakurai really wants her as a tag team character. That explains Smash 4(as she's impossible with that style of play to implement), and it would explain why K. Rool was higher priority, since he takes less work in comparison.

Honestly, echo, clone, semi-clone, whatever, I still want her playable. I'll take her as a tag team, no matter if it's even a Kong I'm not a fan of(which in this case... none of the Kongs bother me, so eh). But more that her being there is enough in itself. The other part is a bonus(Cranky would be my first option to pair her with. Kiddy isn't a bad one either, though. Cranky I like cause he feels like the 5th most important character after the current 3 and Dixie. While many others were playable, they were mostly dropped afterwards and not given nearly as much attention. It didn't help that Tiny was pretty much(or at least felt like) a stand-in for Dixie to some degree, same with Chunky for Kiddy. I don't think Lanky has a similar character in previous games, though? And yes, I'd take him too as a partner for Dixie if it means she's playable. Funky too, but for some reason I like the idea of him being alone. Not sure why. I didn't play enough games to remember if, when he was playable, he could be part of a team in some way like the rest. I know the 64 Kongs weren't really partners either, but you still had a form of tag-teaming by switching between characters in the game. It's just far more loose than the original trilogy, where it was a mechanic heavily used in stages, instead of "in-universe", if you will.

Toon Zelda was planned for Brawl but then cut due to time constraints.

It would have been nice to see all the planned characters included that couldn't quite make it in past Smash games due to time constraints or technical difficulties etc (Except replace Toon Sheik with Tetra and we're cool...)

The interesting thing is she had a file to begin with. And yeah, Toon Sheik would've been kind of awkward, despite being theoretically easier to do(since you have an already done moveset with Sheik. It depends if making an all new moveset for Tetra is easier than making an all new model for Toon Sheik). I figured that Toon Sheik was definitely the original plan(it makes no sense as an actual codename for Tetra. Tetra literally has a trophy in the game, and all the other codenames are far more clear or directly say part of the name of the character, even if it's part of the Japanese name), but I think it was more likely he'd go with Tetra. Who knows though. Toon Zelda was defined by that point as being good with magic, but in WW alone, she couldn't do anything at all besides use a Bow. Even OOT Zelda did a bit more than that, using her magic in more than one way(opening doors, holding Ganon back for a bit. I'm not sure how to categorize her giving Link the Light Arrows. Did she create them? Did the Gods give them to her? It's not specified at all. Even the Silver Arrows by the 3rd game were explained via a Fairy blessing them).

 

[Diddy Kong]

It literally wouldn't make much sense if Dixie was planned with any other Kong besides Diddy or Kiddy honestly. Or DK, because of Tropical Freeze, but that would require Diddy also being demoted to a pair up character, as well as Cranky. I am not a great fan of that.

I mean, the least am asking for with her is her being a sort of Ken styled Echo Fighter. That shouldn't be too hard. Or make her much like Isabelle, that was always a great supported idea of us Dixie supporters.

 

[Curious Villager]

Tetra would be more than fine by herself - she would be great. Toon Zelda ? What's the point ?

What's the point of three Link's? Or four Marth's? Weren't people also asking for a Hilda echo last year? What's the point of anything really?

All I'm saying is that it would have been neat to see "everyone is here" taken the extra mile and also see all the planned past characters as well and what they would have been like if they where never held back by time constraints or past issues but that's just me...

 

[UserKev]

Only reason I can think of is Sakurai really wants her as a tag team character. That explains Smash 4(as she's impossible with that style of play to implement), and it would explain why K. Rool was higher priority, since he takes less work in comparison.

Honestly, echo, clone, semi-clone, whatever, I still want her playable. I'll take her as a tag team, no matter if it's even a Kong I'm not a fan of(which in this case... none of the Kongs bother me, so eh). But more that her being there is enough in itself. The other part is a bonus(Cranky would be my first option to pair her with.

Please don't lump my dream pick Cranky Kong in a tag team duo. *Shivers" Ice Climbers should be the only duo because its anonymously unique to them. They define the team duo aspect of Smash and otherwise, its underwhelming and would take it away from them. My boy Cranky Kong is in an entirely different league of his own.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Only reason I can think of is Sakurai really wants her as a tag team character.

Does he really have to stick to this? I know that Sakurai's attempt at making a unique Chrom felt too much like Marth+Ike to him, but I don't think it was as literal as "Echo of a Marth semiclone with an Ike-esque Up-B".

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Does he really have to stick to this? I know that Sakurai's attempt at making a unique Chrom felt too much like Marth+Ike to him, but I don't think it was as literal as "Echo of a Marth semiclone with an Ike-esque Up-B".

Well, Roy is more or less a combination of Marth and Ike, so it makes sense. And he doesn't. The point is he may be sticking to his plan. Considering he immediately used Diddy despite the plan, there might be other reasons we would have no clue of. We just know why she's scrapped, so logically, the reason he wanted her to be playable in the first place might still be the reason. Plus, we know he scraps concepts to some degree. Remember when Zamus/Samus and Zelda/Sheik were put back together in Ultimate? I don't. Only Pokemon Trainer did, and that was actually a far bigger focus than what the point of Zelda/Sheik was. They weren't tied to a unique "background" character either, and even then, Charizard was temporarily separated. Samus and Zamus just have no real reason to be tied together via a Final Smash at that point, since it just made one character difficult to play as overall at points. Zelda/Sheik at least worked as a core concept, just not very well(PT was the only transformation character, even in Brawl, to decently work out. They were still fairly bad, but the other two transformation characters really really worked poorly overall).

Please don't lump my dream pick Cranky Kong in a tag team duo. *Shivers" Ice Climbers should be the only duo because its anonymously unique to them. They define the team duo aspect of Smash and otherwise, its underwhelming and would take it away from them. My boy Cranky Kong is in an entirely different league of his own.

Honestly, Cranky works as a tag duo or separate. Both are reasonable for him overall. He does act as a partner while playable in at least one game. I wouldn't say lumping in as applying a game mechanic relevant to both him and Dixie as is. Both absolutely work well as that idea. Of course, who knows what'll happen. Dixie could just an Echo with very few differences(maybe just an Up B change and aesthetics). Ken-style Echoes are probably going to be rare to begin with, since they take way more work.

 

[Ben Holt]

The only characters I'd accept as a tag team are Billy & Jimmy, Chorus Kids, Bub & Bob, Baby Mario & Baby Luigi, and Plusle & Minun.
Any other viable characters deserve to be solo (unless there's a Luma or Kazooie situation).

 

[Arymle Roseanne]

Well, Roy is more or less a combination of Marth and Ike, so it makes sense. And he doesn't. The point is he may be sticking to his plan. Considering he immediately used Diddy despite the plan, there might be other reasons we would have no clue of. We just know why she's scrapped, so logically, the reason he wanted her to be playable in the first place might still be the reason. Plus, we know he scraps concepts to some degree. Remember when Zamus/Samus and Zelda/Sheik were put back together in Ultimate? I don't. Only Pokemon Trainer did, and that was actually a far bigger focus than what the point of Zelda/Sheik was. They weren't tied to a unique "background" character either, and even then, Charizard was temporarily separated. Samus and Zamus just have no real reason to be tied together via a Final Smash at that point, since it just made one character difficult to play as overall at points. Zelda/Sheik at least worked as a core concept, just not very well(PT was the only transformation character, even in Brawl, to decently work out. They were still fairly bad, but the other two transformation characters really really worked poorly overall).


Honestly, Cranky works as a tag duo or separate. Both are reasonable for him overall. He does act as a partner while playable in at least one game. I wouldn't say lumping in as applying a game mechanic relevant to both him and Dixie as is. Both absolutely work well as that idea. Of course, who knows what'll happen. Dixie could just an Echo with very few differences(maybe just an Up B change and aesthetics). Ken-style Echoes are probably going to be rare to begin with, since they take way more work.

I smh everytime I see that... I don't feel like arguing about it but as a person who primarily using Diddy already it would feel worthless to have her that way instead at least make her more unique or heavily diversified semi clone like Wolf by relying on her ponytail which was always a strong selling part of her characteristics in her major appearances.

 

[Quillion]

I think we can all agree that at minimum, Dixie needs some kind of spinning recovery and hair grabs/throws. She can be a Diddy semi-echo for all other moves.

 

[Ice-N-Space]

It is a very Peach-like thing to do. Toads are her caretakers. They are supposed to guard her (and often fail at doing so). Don't know why are you having a hard time believing this when this can be seen in several Mario games. The Smash team clearly derived from this idea when coming up with those moves and animations.

Smash also isn't the first nor last game to summon other characters as part of a fighter's moveset.

In Peach's own game she doesn't use her caretakers to fight and toads never engage in a fight not even in their own game, summoners like Lucas & Zelda only have one move dedicated to their summon and it doesn't overshadow them like toad does for Peach. The Smash Team can make mistakes and this is not a Peach like thing to do.

 

[P47]

• Bandana Dee because modern Kirby still has really poor representation (no stage, no remixes, missing spirits of several main characters, not nearly as much music as there should be)
• Skull Kid because of how he was deconfirmed for the base game (left to rot on the website). At least his Mii costume is one of the best

Hoping they'll be considered for DLC

 

[Mamboo07]

• Bandana Dee because modern Kirby still has really poor representation (no stage, no remixes, missing spirits of several main characters, not nearly as much music as there should be)
• Skull Kid because of how he was deconfirmed for the base game (left to rot on the website). At least his Mii costume is one of the best

Hoping they'll be considered for DLC

Same thing as me with Bandana Dee, and Poochy too. (My other wanted fighters are Shake King from Wario Land, Corviknight from Sword/Shield and the T. Rex from Mario Odyssey.)