Deconfirmed characters that keep you salty?

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What do you mean by 'hints'?
Knuckles being shown as an Assist Trophy while Shadow was MIA and the image with Rathalos that from what I heard appeared to reference Golden Sun.

I put "hints" in quotes since nether of these were direct, foolproof "hints" but they did lead their fans to speculate.
You know how people argue that Goku would open the door to a lot of non-video game crap?

It's the same thing with spinoff characters. No one would want Lana, Linkle, Rowan, Shareena, Fawful, or the Paper Mario partners. I understand certain spinoff characters are popular, but rules should be rules.
This argument hinges on everyone agreeing that these characters shouldn't be playable, despite the fact that plenty of the characters you mentioned have supporters of their own.

The difference between non-video game characters and spin-off characters is that Sakurai himself said, in no uncertain terms, that non-video game players wouldn't be coming to Smash. Absolutely nothing has been said against spin-off characters. This is the prime example of those "fan rules" everyone loves so much.
 
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Quillion

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It's an unwritten fan rule, but it should be an actual rule. Spinoff characters would open the door to a lot of side crap that should not be on the same level of the main series of franchises with little-to-no spinoffs.

You know the correct way to broaden Smash's horizons? More enemies. A lot of them are icons in their own right and they are actually part of the main series most of the time.
 
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It's an unwritten fan rule, but it should be an actual rule. Spinoff characters would open the door to a lot of side crap that should not be on the same level of the main series of franchises with little-to-no spinoffs.

You know the correct way to broaden Smash's horizons? More enemies. A lot of them are icons in their own right and they are actually part of the main series most of the time.
That's your opinion, and you are entitled to it, but it isn't universally shared. Don't treat it as fact and as a way to put down others who do want spin-off characters.
 
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Lenidem

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It's an unwritten fan rule, but it should be an actual rule. Spinoff characters would open the door to a lot of side crap that should not be on the same level of the main series of franchises with little-to-no spinoffs.

You know the correct way to broaden Smash's horizons? More enemies. A lot of them are icons in their own right and they are actually part of the main series most of the time.
I totally disagree.
 

Xelrog

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You know how people argue that Goku would open the door to a lot of non-video game crap?

It's the same thing with spinoff characters. No one would want Lana, Linkle, Rowan, Shareena, Fawful, or the Paper Mario partners. I understand certain spinoff characters are popular, but rules should be rules.
I would want Linkle.

I have perspective and I know she won't happen, but in the fictional universe that she did get dropped into Smash, I'd use her, in the same way Young Link is my favorite Link despite knowing that he's a very unnecessary character and will probably be gone next game. Them's the breaks.
 

Rangez

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What do you mean by 'hints'?
He means by supposed stuff like Knuckles being shown first before Shadow, that one Rathalos tweet that most saw as a reference to Golden Sun, the mystery behind the "psynergy" item from the Wendy's trailer which turned out to be the Healing Sprout, among other things.
 
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It's an unwritten fan rule, but it should be an actual rule. Spinoff characters would open the door to a lot of side crap that should not be on the same level of the main series of franchises with little-to-no spinoffs.

You know the correct way to broaden Smash's horizons? More enemies. A lot of them are icons in their own right and they are actually part of the main series most of the time.
Err, you do realize we already have Daisy in the game right? And no I don't believe in the crap that just because she appeared in Super Mario Land for five seconds it means she's a main-line character. Daisy is remembered because of the spin-off games and is essentially treated as a spin-off character by Nintendo.
 
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I'm not an avid supporter of Isaac or Shadow but their fans DEFINITELY deserved better than having their character shown off as an AT at the very last minute after "hints" that they could make the playable roster.
There were no hints that either Shadow or Isaac were fighters, just speculation taken way too far. Nintendo never intended for people to believe they were in the game.

On another note, it's silly to assume that somehow fans of those characters were duped during the November Direct at the last minute--an argument some salty people made after the massacre. It was just the way the reveals were ordered. Imagine if Isaac and Shadow were shown during E3 but Waluigi and Ashley weren't shown until November. It would be the same thing.

Besides, I don't want to sound rude, but shouldn't fans of those character be happy they're in the game? I say this considering that neither Isaac nor Shadow were in Smash 4 at all, so at least being an Assist Trophy is an improvement. As a Kirby fan, I'm happy that Bandana Dee at least got to be a Spirit instead of being AWOL like Adeline or Taranza are.
 

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Add me to the list of people salty over Isaac not being in. I get that there were no actual hints for him, but between the Grinch debacle and other things that were hoped to be signs.....yeah, I get to be salty since I had my hopes up. Lol. He has been one of my most wanted characters since I first played the Golden Sun games. C'est la vie.

Am I gonna get my hopes up that Sakurai has a change of heart and puts in a Golden Sun rep before the end of Ultimate? Damn straight. Let me have my hope. =P
 

Arthur97

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Kind of ironic regarding hints since Pair Up being oddly absent led people to speculate Chrom might be in, which he was, but against all logic, he's still in Pair Up so the "hint" was still nothing.
 
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Here are the characters I wish weren't assist trophies,

Waluigi (I was fine with Waluigi being an assist trophy back in Brawl and smash 4 but not anymore)

Knuckles (He was a terrible assist trophy choice)

Shadow (I was fine with Shadow being an assist trophy back in Brawl and smash 4 but not anymore)

Bomberman (He was a terrible assist trophy choice)

Isaac (I was fine with Isaac being an assist trophy back in Brawl and smash 4 but not anymore)

I'm okay with these characters being assist trophies for now, but if they keep getting re-relegated, I will be pissed.

Zero

Takamaru

Akira
 
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I'm now kinda bothered BOTW Zelda isn't playable. Currently at least, her whole princess-esque is a little outdated. BOTW Zelda could have brought a neat survivalist aspect to Smash.
"Zelda from the Legend of Zelda: breath of the Wild is more into research than fighting, so her design is based off of The Legend of Zelda: A Link Between Worlds."

:ultisabelle:
 

Call_Me_Red

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Can we just take this moment to acknowledge and appreciate the 3 characters who started off as Assist Trophies? (Little Mac, Isabelle, Dark Samus)

I'm so proud of them, and honestly it gives me so much hope for all of the ATs that deserve just a little bit more.
 

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"Zelda from the Legend of Zelda: breath of the Wild is more into research than fighting, so her design is based off of The Legend of Zelda: A Link Between Worlds."

:ultisabelle:
He should've just said "I decided to choose character designs from a wider variety of Zelda games this time."
 
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He should've just said "I decided to choose character designs from a wider variety of Zelda games this time."
I mean they had genuine reason for not putting BOTW Zelda in the game if the idea was to not tarnish her image....until they announced Isabelle as a fighter, who has done arguably less fighting than the former. IMO that makes it all the more reasonable to say that Isabelle was added partially for advertising purposes (considering AC 2019 was announced right after).

If the idea was to reach more horizons with Zelda characters by representing a game with no previous characters, I can see that. But it would have made more sense to have a Zelda newcomer alongside that instead of simply re-skinning a character and calling it a day.
 

Ahm Skittish!

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Err, you do realize we already have Daisy in the game right? And no I don't believe in the crap that just because she appeared in Super Mario Land for five seconds it means she's a main-line character. Daisy is remembered because of the spin-off games and is essentially treated as a spin-off character by Nintendo.
Super Mario Land and Super Mario Run are official main-series games by Nintendo themselves. She's more prominent in spin-offs, yes, but she didn't originate in them either. That's pretty much a hard fact here.

If you want a real example, go with Dr. Mario, an actual spin-off character. He's in fact the only one.

-----------------

That said, among the ones straight out deconfirmed, I'm not honestly salty about them. I'd have loved Shadow too, but I rather look at why they didn't happen.

Also, my guess is BOTW Zelda is not presented as a spellcaster like Smash Zelda is, so isn't the same "kind" of adventurer. Researcher seems a silly way to put it, though she does focus on that more than magic, that's for sure. She's a very different character. She still could've worked fine in Smash with the same moveset, even if it seems odd to do so. Maybe that's more of what he meant and he worded is horribly. Well, regardless, we do have a pretty neat variety in designs for the Zelda cast. Maybe it was cause Ganondorf couldn't be transferred over that they went with a design variety alone. And his OOT portrayal is very popular, plus it actually is easier to keep the same moveset. WW Ganondorf is a very different character and would make more sense as a newcomer at that point(besides that, their bodyshapes are widely different in comparison. I do wish WW Ganondorf got more Smash love in general beyond a Trophy or similar status).
 
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I mean they had genuine reason for not putting BOTW Zelda in the game if the idea was to not tarnish her image....until they announced Isabelle as a fighter, who has done arguably less fighting than the former. IMO that makes it all the more reasonable to say that Isabelle was added partially for advertising purposes (considering AC 2019 was announced right after).

If the idea was to reach more horizons with Zelda characters by representing a game with no previous characters, I can see that. But it would have made more sense to have a Zelda newcomer alongside that instead of simply re-skinning a character and calling it a day.
No offense but:ultisabelle: is far from a reskin like:ultdaisy: considering her differences are more significant to be not labeled as an echo.
 

Quillion

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We don't need Zelda one-shots, people. There is a reason why Marx is relegated to boss status and the rest of the Dream Friends in Star Allies have no chance as playable characters.
 

Lenidem

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I mean, a plot point of BotW was how bad Zelda was with magic. Doesn't seem too unreasonable not to use her.
She was, until she's suddenly able to do stuff like putting Link in a magical protecting sleep, and sealing Ganon for a hundred years. Everything suddenly changed at her seventeenth birthday.
 
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Adelto

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I don't know if I'm still "salty" about them but I would say Waluigi, Ashley, Skull Kid, Midna and bomberman. They're all characters that I would love to see in the game (we can add Shantae and Rayman but I'm not sure if spirit are the same as assist trophies) .
 
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No offense but:ultisabelle: is far from a reskin like:ultdaisy: considering her differences are more significant to be not labeled as an echo.
I was referring to Zelda when I talked about skins. I was saying how while changing Zelda's skin from TP to ALBW represented more games it would have made more sense to have an actual newcomer as well.
 

Sebas22

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We don't need Zelda one-shots, people. There is a reason why Marx is relegated to boss status and the rest of the Dream Friends in Star Allies have no chance as playable characters.
Not gonna lie, it's really absolutely incredibly difficult for these to get in, but Adeleine and Taranza still have chances.
 

Ahm Skittish!

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No offense but:ultisabelle: is far from a reskin like:ultdaisy: considering her differences are more significant to be not labeled as an echo.
Not even close. Isabelle actually doesn't do some of the stuff Villager does, though she doesn't use any regular equipment items either, meaning the Fishing Rod and similar stuff is a bit OOC. However, the rest of her actually has unique moves and animations that properly fit who she is. Daisy has almost no differences other than aesthetics in Peach when it comes to gameplay. Same cannot be said about Isabelle, who carries around items that Villager does not normally. She hosts events, is responsible for the creations of various Work Projects, literally has her own unique tie to Gyroids that Villager does not, and has a completely different bodyshape, which makes her impossible to be a reskin anyway. Daisy literally was a reskin(in both Smash and in Mario). Isabelle was a different model based upon the animal villagers, but not the main character, for her design. Besides that, she doesn't fight traditionally in Smash either, having something closer to a "playing a game" personality. Daisy doesn't really have some unique personality related to that. She does stuff cause she can, just like Peach. Plus, they both actually fight. Isabelle doesn't, and it's reflected outright in how she plays, like if she's not actually in a fighting game. The moves aren't just reskinned, they're re-animated with personality changes.

And her core difference was a different bodyshape. The second thing was the personality was too different to quickly reskin the moves. She has completely different moves from Villager while Daisy literally has the same moves with at best aesthetic differences. That's something that's a huge difference in how they're made. Besides even that, Daisy doesn't have any gameplay changes bar a few hurtboxes due to some animations having a few differences and her taunts. No damage or knockback values. She literally is the most re-skinned character in the game. Unless you count literal alt costumes, which is even more re-skins at that point. :p
 
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We don't need Zelda one-shots, people. There is a reason why Marx is relegated to boss status and the rest of the Dream Friends in Star Allies have no chance as playable characters.
That's a fan rule. You can argue that we don't need one-offs, but remember that there a plenty of characters who only had one or two major appearances of their own when they were added, and some characters didn't exist when they debuted in Smash. Nobody ever said a character didn't have a chance in Smash just because off the amount of games they're in.
 

Quillion

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That's a fan rule. You can argue that we don't need one-offs, but remember that there a plenty of characters who only had one or two major appearances of their own when they were added, and some characters didn't exist when they debuted in Smash. Nobody ever said a character didn't have a chance in Smash just because off the amount of games they're in.
Those characters with "one or two major appearances" are important to their franchises, or in the case of Fire Emblem and Pokemon, have rotating casts that swap out old for new.

Zelda is a long-running franchise that only swaps out side characters. Zelda, Link, and Ganon remain consistent.
 
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I think Sakurai stated in the treehouse event afterwards that he wanted the Zelda cast to branch out from each other as well as represent different games in the series this time around, and just went with the design's he liked most.

The whole Zelda's more into research than fighting thing was probably more tongue in cheek more than anything I think, plus probably also to let her keep her iconic regal design and all over the travellers outfit she's more associated with in BotW.


Considering A Link to the Past/A Link Between Worlds is by far my favourite design for Zelda, I'm personally completely fine that they decided to go that route and give that particular design of Zelda some more recognition as I always felt that it was a pretty underrated design of hers.
It would have been nice if she had alts of other iterations of the character though.
 

Arthur97

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She was, until she's suddenly able to do stuff like putting Link in a magical protecting sleep, and sealing Ganon for a hundred years. Everything suddenly changed at her seventeenth birthday.
It had nothing to do with her birthday, it had to do with Link being in mortal peril, and she didn't put Link to sleep, the chamber did that. She did seal the calamity, true, but she may still be terrible at it once there isn't a world ending threat driving her.

Besides, the Zelda we get to see the most is bad at it.
 

Lenidem

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It had nothing to do with her birthday, it had to do with Link being in mortal peril, and she didn't put Link to sleep, the chamber did that. She did seal the calamity, true, but she may still be terrible at it once there isn't a world ending threat driving her.

Besides, the Zelda we get to see the most is bad at it.
The journals we read in the castle don't say something like ''she sucks/I suck, but tomorrow it's her/my seventeenth birthday so she/I can go to the source of Wisdom and let's hope that something will finally happen''? And this very day, Ganon wakes up, and Zelda can suddenly use her power to seal him?

My bad, I thought Zelda had cast a sleeping/healing spell on Link. Guess I have to listen to grandma Impa once again...
 
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I was referring to Zelda when I talked about skins. I was saying how while changing Zelda's skin from TP to ALBW represented more games it would have made more sense to have an actual newcomer as well.
Ok sorry I misunderstood what you said(it would be cool if they actually made the alts of Zelda characters as other incarnations of the characters), I'll admit it's kinda surprising how Zelda has yet to get a newcomer for a long time (Toon Link was considered a newcomer for Brawl but he obviously was a substitute for Young Link) though I wouldn't blame any of the others that were chosen over a new Zelda rep.

Thank you for that information Ahm Skittish! Ahm Skittish! , I still wish :ultdaisy: still have something to make even a little different from :ultpeach: to make her feel significance to choose over her but I suppose it was because she had the exact same role as her in Mario Land 1.
 
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Arthur97

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The journals we read in the castle don't say something like ''she sucks/I suck, but tomorrow it's her/my seventeenth birthday so she/I can go to the source of Wisdom and let's hope that something will finally happen''? And this very day, Ganon wakes up, and Zelda can suddenly use her power to seal him?

My bad, I thought Zelda had cast a sleeping/healing spell on Link. Guess I have to listen to grandma Impa once again...
Except the spring didn't seem to do much (go watch that scene again, not very indicative that it worked), and the Calamity won. She wasn't able to do anything until Link nearly died protecting her. You know, after they lost.
 

Lenidem

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Except the spring didn't seem to do much (go watch that scene again, not very indicative that it worked), and the Calamity won. She wasn't able to do anything until Link nearly died protecting her. You know, after they lost.
Yeah, it was late, but in the end she proved that she had in fact tremendous magical powers. I mean, she single-handedly sealed Ganon for a hundred years! Isn't THAT powerful?

So if he wanted, Sakurai could have decided that his Smash Zelda was the one after the end of BotW. That would have actually be kinda fitting, since we know that this princess has been to the three springs, so that could explain her special moves... except the armor-one...
 

Ahm Skittish!

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Krystal should have made it in back in Brawl...
Why in the world did they take out Peach's down throw for a generic toad!
Kind of hard to say if it's generic or not. Red and Blue are the colors the main Toad has, and has been used interchangeably in games. The one Peach uses does match the Main Toad among the franchise, including stuff like Mario Kart. The trophies kind of go back and forth by not bothering to separate the Main Toad from the other bodyguards.

That said, isn't the animation fairly similar anyway? Meaning not much changed besides having the second character she's with doing more than block one move?
 
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Kind of hard to say if it's generic or not. Red and Blue are the colors the main Toad has, and has been used interchangeably in games. The one Peach uses does match the Main Toad among the franchise, including stuff like Mario Kart. The trophies kind of go back and forth by not bothering to separate the Main Toad from the other bodyguards.

That said, isn't the animation fairly similar anyway? Meaning not much changed besides having the second character she's with doing more than block one move?
Its a generic toad go play Mario Color Splash.

If you think Peach's down throw animation is fairly similar then that's like calling a car fairly similar to a big truck just play Smash Wii U to see what it really looks like or just have a look at my profile picture and all of her grabs got crippled by this generic... thing not just this one.
 

Ahm Skittish!

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Its a generic toad go play Mario Color Splash.

If you think Peach's down throw animation is fairly similar then that's like calling a car fairly similar to a big truck just play Smash Wii U to see what it really looks like or just have a look at my profile picture and all of her grabs got crippled by this generic... thing not just this one.
Color Splash came out wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy later. It's the same Toad used since Melee, the one from the regular Mario games. They never really updated Toad other than him using more moves. And sometimes can go Metal along with Peach. It's pretty much the Super Mario Bros. 2/Mario Kart/Wario's Woods Toad, the main one overall(but does look enough like your usual SMB1 Toad along with other games that don't use the Main Toad that it's not clear). In addition to that, the Toad in Smash specifically is the one who is under Peach(whether they mean a generic Bodyguard or not is hard to say because the Trophies reference both the generic ones and the Main Toad on different occasions). Either way, we'll never know unless they make a clear decision on which one he is. The problem with Daisy's one is that costume at times was used for the Main Toad, so it seems like they're just both using the two most prominent colors and that's all of note.

Yes, I misremembered the animations. They never came off as terribly different to me, though. They're both throwing a body into the enemy in a downwards motion. Though looking at it again, they're a similar concept anyway. The animations are different due to two different models, but it's pretty much the same concept in usage. No different from how Ganondorf's new Smashes are very similar to the ones in Brawl/4. Though his have slightly different conceptual changes and hitboxes. They're still rather similar at times, especially the Down Smash. The other two don't have extreme changes, but are definitely different to some degree.

"Puts opponent lying face-down on the ground and sits on him/her, knocking them upwards. Good for combos."
"After putting the opponent on the ground, Toad leaps up and headbutts them, sending them upward and behind Peach. Good for starting combos, as it can lead to her back air and forward tilt at low to mid percents."
Quoting aside, these really don't sound that different from each other. Absolutely different animations due to the model factor, so that's true. But I was thinking conceptually they're similar, which was more my train of thought. I clearly said that poorly and I apologize.
 
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