Data Decisive Games Introduction Thread (make sure to check the new forum rules as well!)

[ranmaru]

I disagree. If somebody becomes a leader it's never wrong to question and challenge him.

Let me re-phrase. I mean to say that we shouldn't question leaders simply to question them, now that we agree that questioning a leader is good. Like "One should always question a leader even if there are no questions in the first place!". That's what I mean. I mean that we should question them, when we actually doubt them. Not actually just doubt them because they might be scum and therefore question there every move (or a few) simply due to the principle.

Now I do agree with your statement, it's never wrong to question them, only if you actually doubt them. It's good to think. But if you think there are nothing that sets him off, and you agree with his points, then I think there is no reason to actually question him just to question him. If actual doubt or questions come up naturally, then they should be asked.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

The fact that he became a leader in the first place is reason enough to question and challenge him.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

im down with gheb

 

[#HBC | Joker]

Why are people only now discovering that "leaders" need to be challenged? This seems like fairly obvious stuff to me. It's why I was so mad at the end of E&A. Everyone thought I was just being salty, but I was legitimately mad that AM was actually playing like ass in the late game, and still nobody questioned them. I still can't believe it. It was a dumb strategy that shouldn't have worked.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Why are people only now discovering that "leaders" need to be challenged? This seems like fairly obvious stuff to me. It's why I was so mad at the end of E&A. Everyone thought I was just being salty, but I was legitimately mad that AM was actually playing like *** in the late game, and still nobody questioned them. I still can't believe it. It was a dumb strategy that shouldn't have worked.

And we knew it would for two reasons: we could avoid the lynch and we could set the game up entirely to our advantage with that. Getting Swords in our pocket practically cemented it. You undervalued how much people simply follow people who are right at whatever point in the game and we knew that we could get so much out of our lynch. Playing like "ass" was never a question--that was intentional in fear of saying too much.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

I enjoy this pretense that we're assuming people legitimately care about trying to win games and find mafia. People don't lose games because they lack mafia intuition, aggressiveness, or investigative abilities. They lose because they don't care. I don't believe that people really care about their reads. They don't care if they are wrong and it's not because it is a work in progress, but they just don't care to question their initial assumptions if they feel that they've 'deduced' a slot as being 'mafia' through their research on the slot through their 'effort.' Zen doesn't like a game that gets reduced to bickering and the conversation has shifted to leadership and who gets precedence in the case of conflicting reads. But I find that to be b.s. because the philosophy of this site is always that someone gets lynched on a given day, an idea of worthless slots, and gradient style read lists as if all three mafia members are going to fall under one unified continuum on the bottom of a rainbow list. It's bloody laughable at what small-time metrics are used to gauge motive with players solely relying on their typical tools in the chest of bandwagon vote logs, pattern votes, and role mechanics. It's surprising what boring and unimaginative lengths people go through to put up the facade that they are playing mafia rather than actually playing the damn game.

It's insulting to presume that one or two actions are sufficient to gauge someone's motive as being inherently one end of the spectrum and not the other. I wouldn't mind it if the community didn't put up a pretense otherwise. And when they do it's laughable. It's laughable because it's absurd. And it's so absurd that it's sickening.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

And we knew it would for two reasons: we could avoid the lynch and we could set the game up entirely to our advantage with that. Getting Swords in our pocket practically cemented it. You undervalued how much people simply follow people who are right at whatever point in the game and we knew that we could get so much out of our lynch. Playing like "***" was never a question--that was intentional in fear of saying too much.

Right, I understand the strategy behind it, and why it worked. I just think it should only have worked for a few days, and by the time it got to lylo, people should have been doubting you more.

 

[FullMetalLynch]

he killed the right people before then.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Actually people aren't incompetent this game is just ********.

 

[ranmaru]

I know i care about reads, and having fun at the same time.

 

[Xivii]

I never cared about having fun. I cared about winning within the parameters of the game. Intrinsically that happened to be fun for me. Now I just care about being right. This may align with winning, but at the core there's something different, and the fun is now just a phantom.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I just care about being right.

Don't confuse "caring about being right" with "being unable to accept when you're wrong". Most people do that.

SWFmafia struggles a lot to just accept it when somebody else happens to be wrong and I don't think I've ever seen anybody admit he himself was wrong. On the contrary, I believe a lot of people have been lynched in the past solely because they were wrong about something and neither the player himself, nor the rest of the players would accept it. That's dangerous because in mafia there is no correlation between being right and being town or being wrong and being scum.

 

[FullMetalLynch]

Like I said, I think it's good that we start to challenge the leaders, but not challenge them out of principle. Sometimes the leader can be town and wrong too, and then challenging them would be a good thing in that situation. Sometimes, the person being challenged is right and then you **** up. (But at least you tried to do what you thought was right, is what matters I think)

I won't be against something that I agree with. In E+A, I liked how you liked me, and I only questioned you guys because it seemed more like you cared more about my role than finding scum, which annoyed me... But again, I didn't really have much else to strengthen that doubt, and if I did, maybe others might have listened.

But I remember the comments like "Why the hell are you scum reading Ryker/Laundry??" Something like that. Like everyone didn't even consider it.

thats not true i did and told you this.

 

[ranmaru]

I don't remember our own reads but I was mostly talking about the rest of town reacting to us questioning AM. I think I remember Kantrip saying that it was ******** or something that we were questioning them.

But plz remind me what you said tho

 

[BSL]

Don't confuse "caring about being right" with "being unable to accept when you're wrong". Most people do that.

SWFmafia struggles a lot to just accept it when somebody else happens to be wrong and I don't think I've ever seen anybody admit he himself was wrong. On the contrary, I believe a lot of people have been lynched in the past solely because they were wrong about something and neither the player himself, nor the rest of the players would accept it. That's dangerous because in mafia there is no correlation between being right and being town or being wrong and being scum.

I've admitted I was wrong plenty of times and people don't believe me so I quit playing.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

RIP signups thread

you will be missed

 

[Dooms]

I missed Fire Emblem Awakening mafia ;_;

/in small

Let's try this again xD.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Don't confuse "caring about being right" with "being unable to accept when you're wrong". Most people do that.

SWF mafia struggles a lot to just accept it when somebody else happens to be wrong and I don't think I've ever seen anybody admit he himself was wrong. On the contrary, I believe a lot of people have been lynched in the past solely because they were wrong about something and neither the player himself, nor the rest of the players would accept it. That's dangerous because in mafia there is no correlation between being right and being town or being wrong and being scum.

<--- I admit wrong doing to some degree in at least 95% of the mafia games I'm in and so does Joey.

Also this is not a problem that I would pin SWF with exclusively. If you ask me the majority of the human race hates to be wrong and is generally unforgiving when others are wrong.

It's not that people have a hard to to admitting to being wrong, it's that people have a hard time even thinking that they were wrong in the first place. Everyone operates from a perspective that they think is logical, so when others don't see things their way they often can't figure out why not.

Basically, people have a hard time putting themselves in someone else's shoes.

Also, this.

 

[Raziek]

I missed Fire Emblem Awakening mafia ;_;

/in small

Let's try this again xD.

We're probably gonna need a replacement at some point, worry not.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

What even is the next small anyway?

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

ebwop: oh **** it's a gheb game please not gs3 or some **** again i'm terrible at those games

 

[FullMetalLynch]

gs4 setup is last page iirc

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

/in small

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

tempted to join small.
Do i solo or do i hydra, this is the question

 

[Circus]

Kantrip, you should really consider trimming that Large down by a few slots if you can. It's been sitting there for a while and I gotta believe the 17-player sign-up sheet is the main reason (sho ain't the flava cuz the flava's tasty).

If you could get it down to 15, I'd consider joining. If you could get it down to 14, I'd join immediately. And I don't think I'd be the only one.

 

[Kantrip]

You make a good point, and I'll see if I can't trim the setup down a bit to get the queue rolling.

 

[Dastrn]

tempted to join small.
Do i solo or do i hydra, this is the question

I might be interested in a hydra with you, but I need to wait until I find out if I got this new job. 2nd interview is Monday, and if I get it, I won't have time for more than 1 game at a time. Xatres and I will probably hydra every other, and I'll look to hydra with good folk in between. I have a harder time caring if I can't talk through things with a teammate.

 

[ranmaru]

Understand the time stuff. I'm quite busy myself now (more than ever), and hydras are da bess, like masons with half a vote.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Yall are forgetting the "/in small" bit at the end of your posts

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

I might be interested in a hydra with you, but I need to wait until I find out if I got this new job. 2nd interview is Monday, and if I get it, I won't have time for more than 1 game at a time. Xatres and I will probably hydra every other, and I'll look to hydra with good folk in between. I have a harder time caring if I can't talk through things with a teammate.

Alright, good luck ^_^.

/inb4 Rastrn

 

[Circus]

/in to host Small with a setup already approved by Marshy

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

/in small

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Yall are forgetting the "/in small" bit at the end of your posts

I already got it, bro!

 

[ranmaru]

Seriously though, someone has to hydra with me, and we will become

DISCO JESUS

 

[Xatres]

/in to host small

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Seriously though, someone has to hydra with me, and we will become

DISCO JESUS

More like some new Lovable Adorable Kanine, I'd actually make cases and post reads if we hydra'd.

 

[Omni]

Lynch ALL the inactives.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Join my game and lynch them all!

 

[Omni]

What game? But okay.

/inwhatevergameGhebishosting

Unless it's for a replacement then nah.

 

[FullMetalLynch]

GS4,open setup.
Still in signups