Levitibus
Smash Ace
Some Ness beat Tyrant in tourny like at Evo, a NESS, step it up you crying lames, or better yet quit and go away.
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Dear Md/Va
- Thread starter SOVAman
- Start date
Crizthakidd
Smash Champion
why didint they ban melee shiek. or fox.
snake does more dmg to more chars than mk. and he goes even with mk.
btw lil B sig is BEYOND hilarious omfg LOL
snake does more dmg to more chars than mk. and he goes even with mk.
btw lil B sig is BEYOND hilarious omfg LOL
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
Yea ban the Knight.
Coney
Smash Master
I want him banned, but only because I'm selfish.
First off, I'm not in the community to win or to make money--if I wanted that, I'd get weekend job. I'm not in it for recognition or celebrity, I've got other things going on. I'm just in it to enjoy the game and have fun, and MK just inhibits that. I'd estimate that anywhere between ~3/4 and 4/5 of ALL my tourney losses (since i got good, anyway) have been to MK. The other losses are either to those players who are at the top of their respective character's metagames, or players who simply cover me well with their characters. After all this time and effort, I refuse to believe that I'm just not proficient enough in the matchup. My ability to, on a good day, go close to even with Plank, Korn and Forte, then lose to BMX' week-old MK just astounds me.
That's not the only issue, either; to beat MK, I've been told to pick between a handful of chars that go even (or close to it, take your pick) with MK to beat him. Honestly? I don't want to do that. I want to play my own characters, the ones I enjoy playing, do the best I can with them, and lose when I'm not up to snuff. Again, I'm in this community for the thrill of the game, not to be the world's greatest. Oh yeah, boo-hoo, I have to CP a bad matchup, poor me. Like I said, I'm just selfish. I'm willing to CP bad matchups with characters I like to play, which I did against Lie's Falco with G&W. But to pick up an entirely different character that I don't even enjoy playing with, and get proficient enough with them to, at best, go even with MK, it's just too much for my little heart to endure. For absolutely everyone else in the game, I can pick and choose among a list of counters for my awful matchups. For MK, I have to pick from a list of characters I hate to play just to go even with that dude.
That said, I only posted because I was asked to; whether my vote actually means anything, considering I'm speaking from an individual stance and not for the good of our community, is questionable. It'd just certainly be more fun, to me at least, to have him gone.
Also, I want to make something clear: I'm not disillusioned enough to think I'm better than all the MKs that have beaten me, or that I would be placing top 3 at tourneys without them. I just can't ignore the coincidence that, in all honesty, I feel that all the players in MD/VA that I can't AT LEAST go even with are either absolutely incredible players, the ones at the top of their characters metagames...or they main MK.
First off, I'm not in the community to win or to make money--if I wanted that, I'd get weekend job. I'm not in it for recognition or celebrity, I've got other things going on. I'm just in it to enjoy the game and have fun, and MK just inhibits that. I'd estimate that anywhere between ~3/4 and 4/5 of ALL my tourney losses (since i got good, anyway) have been to MK. The other losses are either to those players who are at the top of their respective character's metagames, or players who simply cover me well with their characters. After all this time and effort, I refuse to believe that I'm just not proficient enough in the matchup. My ability to, on a good day, go close to even with Plank, Korn and Forte, then lose to BMX' week-old MK just astounds me.
That's not the only issue, either; to beat MK, I've been told to pick between a handful of chars that go even (or close to it, take your pick) with MK to beat him. Honestly? I don't want to do that. I want to play my own characters, the ones I enjoy playing, do the best I can with them, and lose when I'm not up to snuff. Again, I'm in this community for the thrill of the game, not to be the world's greatest. Oh yeah, boo-hoo, I have to CP a bad matchup, poor me. Like I said, I'm just selfish. I'm willing to CP bad matchups with characters I like to play, which I did against Lie's Falco with G&W. But to pick up an entirely different character that I don't even enjoy playing with, and get proficient enough with them to, at best, go even with MK, it's just too much for my little heart to endure. For absolutely everyone else in the game, I can pick and choose among a list of counters for my awful matchups. For MK, I have to pick from a list of characters I hate to play just to go even with that dude.
That said, I only posted because I was asked to; whether my vote actually means anything, considering I'm speaking from an individual stance and not for the good of our community, is questionable. It'd just certainly be more fun, to me at least, to have him gone.
Also, I want to make something clear: I'm not disillusioned enough to think I'm better than all the MKs that have beaten me, or that I would be placing top 3 at tourneys without them. I just can't ignore the coincidence that, in all honesty, I feel that all the players in MD/VA that I can't AT LEAST go even with are either absolutely incredible players, the ones at the top of their characters metagames...or they main MK.
xxCANDYxx
Smash Lord
PS: every game has a best character...and every game has a character thats easy to play...get over it
obviously hes not gonna get banned
why would he? snakes a better character
obviously hes not gonna get banned
why would he? snakes a better character
CStick
Smash Lord
"BAAAAWWW Shiek is easy to play and can pwn my trashy marth after i worked days and days on those double fairs!"
"BAAWWWW MK makes it so that I actually have to play the game instead of camping and projectile spamming with my ROB, Snake or Falco!"
"BAAAWWW the M16 is a n00b gun and kills too easily despite the fact that I'm using the M40, MP5, or something just as spammable and easy!"
"BAAAAWWW any SMG in World at War is broken despite me using rifled grenades!"
"BAAAWWW Slayer in GG!"
"BAAAWWW Storm, Magneto, and Cable in MvC!"
"BAAWWW ______ in ________, etc."
Dang, it all sounds so familiar...from every somewhat to very competitive game I have ever played...
At least Melee took the Shiek issue as a hint to get better.
"BAAWWWW MK makes it so that I actually have to play the game instead of camping and projectile spamming with my ROB, Snake or Falco!"
"BAAAWWW the M16 is a n00b gun and kills too easily despite the fact that I'm using the M40, MP5, or something just as spammable and easy!"
"BAAAAWWW any SMG in World at War is broken despite me using rifled grenades!"
"BAAAWWW Slayer in GG!"
"BAAAWWW Storm, Magneto, and Cable in MvC!"
"BAAWWW ______ in ________, etc."
Dang, it all sounds so familiar...from every somewhat to very competitive game I have ever played...
At least Melee took the Shiek issue as a hint to get better.
hova
Smash Champion
we should ban MK so that Greg can finally live out his dream of using Jiggs exclusively in tourney
Lobos
Smash Master
I think AWPers in Counter Strike should be banned...........
KORNNNNN~
Smash Master
mk shouldn't be banned.... lol D:
ps, just keep playing olimar, your mk is not going anywhere :o
it was soo much fun LOL "khhhhheaaaa kheeeeeeeaaa!! looks like it's even again !!! "
ps, just keep playing olimar, your mk is not going anywhere :o
yay for my snake vs your mk sets !
it was soo much fun LOL "khhhhheaaaa kheeeeeeeaaa!! looks like it's even again !!! "
SOVAman
Smash Hero
I was just asking what our region thinks it looks to be split obviously
why so offended
BMX
Smash Lord
Wario is clearly the best -_- *scoffs at all of you*
Pyronic_Star
Smash Champion
-EE
a ness omg... that completely destroys my argument... have you ever though about how good of a player the ness had to be... but on top of that, how much more time the ness put into the ness vs mk match up? Find out how much time the ness put into the match up and get back to me... or better yet, think of how surprised everyone was... if anything you aided my argument
-Candy
wtf, i'm over the fact that mk won't be banned... thas why i have put 80% of my time into him alone.. but i still want him banned. and most people are idiots.. how can snake be a better character when mk wins more match ups? and beats snake... weather its via a gimp, or by simply getting him to 200% and winning... you and inui are biased as hell when it comes to the snake vs mk match up, could it be that your just that much better then most of the mk's you play, thus you claim that snake wins the match up
-korn
your biased towards me as a player so your opinion towards me warrants very little weight... but even so, when is the last time we have done a mk ditto? critical hit 4.5? just because i'm an idiot and don't use mk in singles tourny doesn't mean my mk isn't good...
a ness omg... that completely destroys my argument... have you ever though about how good of a player the ness had to be... but on top of that, how much more time the ness put into the ness vs mk match up? Find out how much time the ness put into the match up and get back to me... or better yet, think of how surprised everyone was... if anything you aided my argument
-Candy
wtf, i'm over the fact that mk won't be banned... thas why i have put 80% of my time into him alone.. but i still want him banned. and most people are idiots.. how can snake be a better character when mk wins more match ups? and beats snake... weather its via a gimp, or by simply getting him to 200% and winning... you and inui are biased as hell when it comes to the snake vs mk match up, could it be that your just that much better then most of the mk's you play, thus you claim that snake wins the match up
-korn
your biased towards me as a player so your opinion towards me warrants very little weight... but even so, when is the last time we have done a mk ditto? critical hit 4.5? just because i'm an idiot and don't use mk in singles tourny doesn't mean my mk isn't good...
KORNNNNN~
Smash Master
I didn't say anything bad to you... lol chill
I basically said that you should stick to your main that's all... I don't really care much about tournaments in the past and I didn't even based my opinion towards old tournaments dude. D: don't assuming ****
Infact, I don't even remember that we played mk ditto at CH4.5...... but I do now because you just mention about it lol
edit: mk can't do much vs campy snake, and don't call me inui because I'm skinny..
edit2: you saying, we havn't play mk ditto since ch4.5 ? ok, next time in tourney just go whatever characters you like olimar/mk/etc vs me, but the results will be the same..
I basically said that you should stick to your main that's all... I don't really care much about tournaments in the past and I didn't even based my opinion towards old tournaments dude. D: don't assuming ****
Infact, I don't even remember that we played mk ditto at CH4.5...... but I do now because you just mention about it lol
edit: mk can't do much vs campy snake, and don't call me inui because I'm skinny..
edit2: you saying, we havn't play mk ditto since ch4.5 ? ok, next time in tourney just go whatever characters you like olimar/mk/etc vs me, but the results will be the same..
TwentyTwo
Smash Ace
Whether or not MK is beatable or not is not the only matter here. We all recognize that he's beatable, but there's other reasons people are aiming to ban MK.
And it's absolutely possible to argue that Snake wins the matchup vs MK. We know why there are more MKs then Snakes though, and that's more than likely because of their learning curve differences, and because of that less top snakes to fight top MKs.
And it's absolutely possible to argue that Snake wins the matchup vs MK. We know why there are more MKs then Snakes though, and that's more than likely because of their learning curve differences, and because of that less top snakes to fight top MKs.
SOVAman
Smash Hero
EDIT: This is Bonk
I am aware every game has a best character and if metaknight is banned there will still be a best character (probably snake).
The fact is that metaknight limits other characters options to the point where it's ban-worthy in my eyes. Metaknight is capable of doing this because his lack of weaknesses meaning there is really only one option to beat metaknight, an option in which the best metaknight players can figure out and cover.
Going back to my analogy, Akuma in HD Remix was definitely beatable because they nerfed many things in this remake, most notably his aerial fireball. But even with those nerf that made him beatable he was still seen as a broken character because of his ability to limit the opponents options. Here is a quick list of things that made akuma too good in most people's eyes:
"Fireball traps on par with ryu's.
Air fireball crossup with 50-50 mixup that kills you if you guess wrong (including a trap into his super Raging Demon).
Jab shoryuken 100% safe, and highly invulnerable."
Are these things beatable, yes, but they are tools that are just too good in the game to limit options. A similar list can most likely be made for metaknight.
I believe metaknight has a similar ability of akuma in which he limits all of the cast's options and can take advantage. Akuma had an advantage or went even on the entire cast and so does metaknight. It's just the difference in the too gaming communities, street fighter community (and other fighting communities) has banned characters in the past, the smash community has not and is stubborn to do so.
In almost every competitive fighting game characters are banned because of there ability to limit options.
examples:
Street Fighter III: 3rd Strike:
Gill is not allowed in tournament play.
Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo HD Remix (and Super Turbo classic)
Akuma is not allowed in tournament play.
Guilty Gear Accent Core (+):
Kliff and Justice are not allowed in tournament play.
Soul Calibur IV
Bonus characters are not allowed in tournament play.
Whether or not Super Smash Bros. series should be compared to other fighters is up to you but I believe that Smash has many of the same traits as other fighting games. That is the only thing that keeps metaknight from getting banned is the stubbornness of the community in handling techniques and characters.
Also I believe metaknight is more broken then IC's infinites because of the bad match-up and many weaknesses IC's have, something that metaknight doesn't have to worry about.
If you think that's the reason why the pro-ban side believes he needs to be banned then well, your wrong.
I am aware every game has a best character and if metaknight is banned there will still be a best character (probably snake).
The fact is that metaknight limits other characters options to the point where it's ban-worthy in my eyes. Metaknight is capable of doing this because his lack of weaknesses meaning there is really only one option to beat metaknight, an option in which the best metaknight players can figure out and cover.
Going back to my analogy, Akuma in HD Remix was definitely beatable because they nerfed many things in this remake, most notably his aerial fireball. But even with those nerf that made him beatable he was still seen as a broken character because of his ability to limit the opponents options. Here is a quick list of things that made akuma too good in most people's eyes:
"Fireball traps on par with ryu's.
Air fireball crossup with 50-50 mixup that kills you if you guess wrong (including a trap into his super Raging Demon).
Jab shoryuken 100% safe, and highly invulnerable."
Are these things beatable, yes, but they are tools that are just too good in the game to limit options. A similar list can most likely be made for metaknight.
I believe metaknight has a similar ability of akuma in which he limits all of the cast's options and can take advantage. Akuma had an advantage or went even on the entire cast and so does metaknight. It's just the difference in the too gaming communities, street fighter community (and other fighting communities) has banned characters in the past, the smash community has not and is stubborn to do so.
In almost every competitive fighting game characters are banned because of there ability to limit options.
examples:
Street Fighter III: 3rd Strike:
Gill is not allowed in tournament play.
Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo HD Remix (and Super Turbo classic)
Akuma is not allowed in tournament play.
Guilty Gear Accent Core (+):
Kliff and Justice are not allowed in tournament play.
Soul Calibur IV
Bonus characters are not allowed in tournament play.
Whether or not Super Smash Bros. series should be compared to other fighters is up to you but I believe that Smash has many of the same traits as other fighting games. That is the only thing that keeps metaknight from getting banned is the stubbornness of the community in handling techniques and characters.
Also I believe metaknight is more broken then IC's infinites because of the bad match-up and many weaknesses IC's have, something that metaknight doesn't have to worry about.
Noraa
Smash Lord
i mean does it matter if he gets banned or not?, the regions will make their own choice to keep him lol
VanillaWaffle
Smash Apprentice
im ok with letting mk's stay, but only if they physically disable their b buttons.
otherwise ban him
otherwise ban him
meepxzero
Smash Master
lil b there is a small difference between the fighting community and brawl when deciding on bans. Most of the bans in other games are because those characters u mentioned are boss characters or characters not intended in arcade (console characters dont matter). Capcom has been better with nerfing boss characters so they can be playable such as Seth in sf4. Its kinda hard to compare other games with banned characters because mk was intended to be in the game and the other half of other games they werent intended.
MK has an option for everything in brawl, but that is limited to the player. m2k is the closest thing to a perfect mk, but even he makes incorrect choices on certain options against people. I know pro-ban has a lot of logical reasons to have him banned, but you know the only reason pro-ban is going to win is because of all the people who cant deal with mk. Im sorry but it is true. I would say a good 80% of top players dont care for a ban so that really just means the rest of the community needs to step it up and not whine.
Even people who use to complain about him endlessly me and neo are anti ban now especially after we just learned to beat him.
MK has an option for everything in brawl, but that is limited to the player. m2k is the closest thing to a perfect mk, but even he makes incorrect choices on certain options against people. I know pro-ban has a lot of logical reasons to have him banned, but you know the only reason pro-ban is going to win is because of all the people who cant deal with mk. Im sorry but it is true. I would say a good 80% of top players dont care for a ban so that really just means the rest of the community needs to step it up and not whine.
Even people who use to complain about him endlessly me and neo are anti ban now especially after we just learned to beat him.
SOVAman
Smash Hero
Meep I didnt post that Bonk did
JCaesar
Smash Hero
Those other games were also designed to be competitive and (somewhat) balanced. Brawl was designed to be a party game, NOT a competitive tournament game. The community has modded it by banning things like items and stages to make it somewhat competitive, but we have no control over the character balance, short of banning characters or hacking.
If MK was better than he is now, but still "beatable," would this community ban him then? Does he need an arbitrary title of "boss character" to be bannable?
It doesn't matter though. He won't ever be banned. And I really do hope it stays that way.
Pyronic_Star
Smash Champion
Emblem Lord says it best meep
"Let me just ask something.
In a game not made for competitive play, nay a game where the developers themselves tried their hardest to make the game unfit for competitive play where stages and items and even STRATEGIES (planking/ledge camping) must be banned for the game to be competitive. Is it really such a stretch to think that you might need to ban a character too?"
and one reason neo said he doesn't want him banned is
1) because he said mk is needed to fight ic's, he said if ic's infinite is legal then mk needs to be also
2) he put tons and tons of time into beating this one character, and he doesn't want his time to have been wasted now that he beats mks
"Let me just ask something.
In a game not made for competitive play, nay a game where the developers themselves tried their hardest to make the game unfit for competitive play where stages and items and even STRATEGIES (planking/ledge camping) must be banned for the game to be competitive. Is it really such a stretch to think that you might need to ban a character too?"
and one reason neo said he doesn't want him banned is
1) because he said mk is needed to fight ic's, he said if ic's infinite is legal then mk needs to be also
2) he put tons and tons of time into beating this one character, and he doesn't want his time to have been wasted now that he beats mks
meepxzero
Smash Master
lol if all that were true why arent we playing brawl+. This may be a party game, but some people are making an effort to CHANGE the game competitively. If mk does get banned i hope more people play brawl+ cuz i see this game getting dumber without mk around. Its gonna be all ic infinites and snake grenade camping. Making it slower paced than it already is.
Then when the issue to ban ic infinites come up. Its gonna be even uglier because people are gonna whine harder that they are taking away all the time theyve spent learning the infinites. I dont fairly care because i actually have fun sitting with a lvl 9 and just infiniting all day. It reminds me of the days when i played street fighter and all i wanted to do was work on combos.
PS snake beats ic 70:30. im slightly an exception because ive played that match up to oblivion with candy.
Then when the issue to ban ic infinites come up. Its gonna be even uglier because people are gonna whine harder that they are taking away all the time theyve spent learning the infinites. I dont fairly care because i actually have fun sitting with a lvl 9 and just infiniting all day. It reminds me of the days when i played street fighter and all i wanted to do was work on combos.
PS snake beats ic 70:30. im slightly an exception because ive played that match up to oblivion with candy.
VanillaWaffle
Smash Apprentice
wait hold on now, i didnt read most posts and didnt realize we were yelling and screaming about this, let me join in the fun.
@ candy - YOUR PENMANSHIP IS ATTROCIOUS!!!! **movie quote 10 points to anyone who tells me what movie**
@ ps - you play olimar, HAHA DEAL WITH THAT INSULT!!!!
@ korn - you're too cool for mk, when you gonna make the all d3 switch? we're all waiting for it
@ everyone else - generic insulting argumentative comment here.
@ candy - YOUR PENMANSHIP IS ATTROCIOUS!!!! **movie quote 10 points to anyone who tells me what movie**
@ ps - you play olimar, HAHA DEAL WITH THAT INSULT!!!!
@ korn - you're too cool for mk, when you gonna make the all d3 switch? we're all waiting for it
@ everyone else - generic insulting argumentative comment here.
KORNNNNN~
Smash Master
thanks :o i still play a lot of D3
don't you remember hat's tourney + twin's tourney where i get 4th with all D3 :o
Pyronic_Star
Smash Champion
didn't say neo was right XD just stated something he has said in the past, because you used him in your argument *nods* after watching snakes play you and using logic... i agree that snake has a great chance against ic's... still doesn't change the fact that you kill them off of one grab :s
KORNNNNN~
Smash Master
*grab tomnook's flavor popcorn*
D: lol
D: lol
jjvirus
Smash Champion
Isn't that what R.O.B. is for?
Last time I checked, and correct me if I'm wrong, R.O.B. was one of ICs hardest matchups. And a lot of people I play and talk to, many of them being Snake mains, say R.O.B. is a difficult matchup for Snake. Only person(s) I can recall saying R.O.B. doesn't beat Snake is Inui, and I can never tell what's going on in his head.
inb4namesearch
B0NK
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Feb 28, 2008
- Messages
- 1,282
I wouldn't be so sure. Well I guess it depends on what you consider as a top player.
Pro- Ban:
Fiction
Reflex
Rookie
CO18
Cowtipper
Edrees
Holynightmare
Lee Martin
Ninjalink
P~S
Rookie
BO X7
melee1
omegawhitemage
Overswarm
xyro
and I'm sure there is more.
And should we consider the top players that only use metaknight, and without metaknight will not place the same?
i.e. M2K, Dojo, Tyrant, DSF, King_Ace, Anti, Infinity, omni and so on
KORNNNNN~
Smash Master
SOVAman
Smash Hero
Rookie is respectable though xD
Also alot of I guess big members of the community are pro ban
like chibo if you consider him a big part
Also alot of I guess big members of the community are pro ban
like chibo if you consider him a big part
VanillaWaffle
Smash Apprentice
i do remember the hats tourney in mentioned, now lets see you do it at an upcoming tourney
you know i love dat sexy penguin.
KORNNNNN~
Smash Master
i still have to play mk most of the time though :/ except for some match-up..i do remember the hats tourney in mentioned, now lets see you do it at an upcoming tourney
yeah it's lame
edit: pretty much lilb :o
SOVAman
Smash Hero
If only he was banned right
gosh darn LOL
JCaesar
Smash Hero
It's pretty simple actually. Brawl+ is a hacked game and isn't mainstream.
Just imagine for a second that things were switched. If Sakurai had made and released a game like Brawl+, and then some dudes who were fed up with combos and character balance went and decided to make a hacked version like the Brawl we have now, do you really think anyone would play that hacked game?
Hint: The answer is no.
You are correct, ROB is one of the toughest matchups for both those characters.
meepxzero
Smash Master
i mean robs hard until he gets grabbed. Then hes gonna whine about infinites like every other character lol. Yea even tho i dont play brawl+ it is an exceptionally better game because no one whines as hard about is as regular brawl and marth is too funnn. I guess it is kinda biased who i think is top player because most of them are mk mains or good against mk mains lol and the ones who i dont think are well suck against mk or whine XD.
But if you look at more than half the pro-ban list they are BAADDD players. Maybe 2-3 notable top players who are voting because of the arguement presented and having no biased. Most of the people on anti-ban are top players and can deal with mk. When i say top players i mean people who get top 10 in nationals. I dont even consider myself there.
But if you look at more than half the pro-ban list they are BAADDD players. Maybe 2-3 notable top players who are voting because of the arguement presented and having no biased. Most of the people on anti-ban are top players and can deal with mk. When i say top players i mean people who get top 10 in nationals. I dont even consider myself there.
hova
Smash Champion
lmao@ Meep
you can't honestly believe that Brawl would be a 'dumber' game without MK; that's pretty ridiculous man
just because the way you and Candy play each other is ******** doesn't me that's the future of the game
without MK there will be plenty of other characters used and they will spice up the game. plenty of characters on the roster are capable of applying tons of pressure
can we get some more solid Luigi and Peach mains??
you can't honestly believe that Brawl would be a 'dumber' game without MK; that's pretty ridiculous man
just because the way you and Candy play each other is ******** doesn't me that's the future of the game
without MK there will be plenty of other characters used and they will spice up the game. plenty of characters on the roster are capable of applying tons of pressure
can we get some more solid Luigi and Peach mains??
MattyP
Smash Apprentice
I know my vote won't count as much since I left for a while, but I think MK should be banned.
Emperor Time
Smash Lord
No ban.
*Leaves*
*Leaves*
Coney
Smash Master
that's another thing actually; if MK were gone, i'd use peach a LOT more. as-is, i keep her in my pocket mostly because i'm terrified of MK. he's really the only thing she has tons of trouble dealing with...
that and a super-campy snake...
oh, and i bet forte would go mostly peach if he were banned!
Reioumu
Smash Lord
No ban. He doesn't have advantage over Snake from what I'm seeing.
-Rei
-Rei