Dealing with Specific Moves

[Crackle]

Character Move: What to do
Note: Thread organized into "The Before" for anticipating the move and "The During" for being hit



:gay man-watch:'s Backair:
The Before
Pull a grenade and attempt to powershield it, or roll right before it starts

The During
DI out and punish back with an aerial (Xeylode)
Quarter Circling the movement stick and Tapping the C-stick should do it fastest (both in same direction)


's Shield Grab:
The Before
Ftilt loses to D3's grab in a direct confrontation, but can be a last resort (Xeylode)
Use platforms and the occasional unpredictable Dacus to get by him closing in on you (Yumewomitoru)
Avoid getting caught by a bair, uptilt, swallow, nair, or rising dair as they all pop you up so that he me go for the grab.
Grenade pull->Land->Spotdodge is the quickest way to dodge an incoming "catch". The grenade pull lets you buffer shield before you land.
Chill at the end of the stage so less dthrow happens when you get grabbed (Solecalibur)

The During
Grenade pull and spotdodge are the fastest options in that order to get out of a messed up chainthrow (Yumewomitoru)
D3 can dthrow you off the ledge and ftilt your second jump if you attempt to just jump back up without an airdodge. He can then proceed to grab or bair your cypher and footstool your c4. (Technical Chase)
"Auto canceled Nair is hard to punish as D3 from what I've learned" (Technical Chase) ******Needs more reasoning


's IAP:
The Before
Get just close enough that you can still reach the end of it with an ftilt or dash attack, then be ready to react. (ProXY GatoR)
Grenade counter wins the IAP battle, and grenade grabbing beats falco's grab as well

The During
Let it go, it hit you and you weren't in range to punish. Running at him when he's not in lag will not do you justice.


's Up-B (from ground):
The Before
*shield, spotdodge, or roll behind it and uptilt*

The During
You're in the air, now avoid or explode the impending tornado or other such followup.



***Suggest moves that give (or gave) you a hard time! Or moves that you feel are important for a certain character to deal with Snake.
Also, TELL ME HOW THE **** TO MAKE GAMEANDWATCH'S ICON!

 

[Underload]

I hate D3's grab. A lot. Its range is just stupid.

G+W's bair is easy to deal with for me. I'm okay at SDI, and it just seems like G+W's bair is especially easy to SDI.

But if there's one move I hate that always gives me trouble, it's Wario's bite. At low percents, if you get eaten and spat out, Wario can do a lot of stupid things to you. I have a bad habit of trying to punish it when I see it coming, even though I know it pretty much out prioritizes everything Snake has.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

You just have to be patient when you're trying to punish it as it does stay out a long time. But once you do its an easy F-Tilt. I prefer to use that because its range is good and in case i miss my timing I'm safe as Wario's range is crap to begin with.

You could also toss a grenade and watch him eat it if your far enough. Easy grab > Nair/Bair/Uair.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

DDD's grab in my opinion is fairly easy to deal with. You simply have to try to get the guessing game right. DDD either tries to force the grab, or only does it in punishment. Either way is easy to deal with.

If he hides in a shield a lot, you want to try grab a lot. Most of the time, the mentality of the person is to react to someone hitting their shield and then grab then. If you never attack the shield you do not have that problem. That means no spacing with Ftilt. My guess would be a lot of grab attempts through the means of dodging/rolling and nade grabs with some jabs -> (followup) to mix it in incase they try to roll or spotdodge when in a shield.

If they try to force the grab, which I see a lot of beginning DDDs do, then that should be easily dealt with by a dodge or roll. DDD's grab is fairly punishable if missed.

G&W's Bair is dealt with like any other mult-hitting move. You DI in the direction that is opposite of moves momentum, or closest way out of the move. If G&W Bairs going up to hit you, then DIing up is a bad idea. You DI down. If he is going down, you DI up. And I think you can come out of it with a Bair/Uair to punish it.

Wario's bite typically gets me when I am trying to stay in a shield, or when he manages to combo me from a weak Nair hit. If you get caught in it from a Nair hit, then it seems hard to avoid the move. The other times would be not to be directly below him and hiding in a shield. Wario stops in mid air when they try that. Any other time to punish a missed bite would be to simply wait for the move to end then punish. I mean, wario cannot move and with a move that comes out in 4 frames, you can be able to punish him when the mouth closes.

 

[ProXY GatoR]

For Mk's dash grab, the spot dodge will work for like the first time, maybe 2 times, but expect them to adjust with a pivot grab next time, as soon as they see you will react with a spot dodge, so be ready for that.

Falco's IAP, you have afew different things you could do. If you dash forward from a bit out of it's range to about the middle of it, you can bait it out and get a f-tilt or a dash attack. Also, i don't really do this, but couldn't you just predict and U-tilt? I could see that not working though, if his second laser is delayed and fired closer to the ground, like it should be. I'm pretty sure that would stun you long enough for the side-b to get through before you can attack. Idk.

 

[AfroQT]

DDD's grab is ridiculous...

 

[misterpimp5757]

uh wats IAP?

 

[ProXY GatoR]

Immediate Aerial Phantasm.

 

[Crackle]

DDD's grab is ridiculous...

Does anyone play a good D3 often (and not get wrecked)?

 

[Yumewomiteru]

Does anyone play a good D3 often (and not get wrecked)?

I doooooooo

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I doooooooo

I thought that DDD player wrecked you?

 

[Crackle]

Do you have any suggestions for dealing with his grab range?

 

[Yumewomiteru]

DDD is def a counter against Snake, and his grab is def the thing that breaks the matchup. You should nade camp against DDD, and nade camp alot. But make sure you pull the nade at a far away distance, or else he can punish it with Ftilt or Side-B. DDD's grab > all of Snake's CQC options, grenade grab can work but he can space it with f-tilt. If DDD is on the ground, don't fight him, don't approach, just camp, and run away when he approaches. DACUS is good when he's closing in but he does have options to beat it if you are too predictable. If you are on stages with platforms (esp high ones), abuse them by using them to help you run away from DDD.

The only time you should CQC DDD is when he is trying to land. He cant move horizontally in the air, so you will always know where he will land. But he will mix up his landing with jump stalling, fast fall, fake fast fall jump again, ff ad land, bair/nair landing, and inhale. You should never hold your shield on the ground as he can inhale/bair shieldpoke when your shield gets small.

Snake's recovery and landing options are kinda limited so a good DDD can grab you by making a good read. So always be fluid with your recovery, never predetermine what you will do. A simple thing like moving away from where DDD is can avoid a grab. Other things to do are ff ad, bair, nade reversal, footstool, etc. Sometimes using cypher as you're about to land can break you out of DDD's grab if he running grabs you.

If you do get grabbed nade pull is the fastest way to get out if he messes up, spot dodge is the 2nd fastest. But DDD can punish them hard (Dash attack/Fsmash/roll behind you grab again) if he predicts them, so do it wisely, sometimes DDD will purposely mess up a CG to see how you are trying to escape it.



TL;DR Camp him lots, watch your recovery.


EDIT: Copypasted what I said about dealing with Illusion, apply the same thing to IAP. And add that you can dtilt it, you can also dtilt with a nade in hand.

If Fox likes to Illusion rly high (Above your utilt range, perhaps aiming for a platform, or is good at cancelling it to get max range) you can always sh/fh dj nair to intercept it. But that is if you predict it, for you can't react to it in time. And leave a nade on the ground so if he does illusion low he may get blown up by it. Speaking of which nades are really good way to punish illusion, as long as you leave nades on the ground theres a chance he'll blow it up with illusion or land where the nade is. He can illusion higher to avoid nades on the ground. But if you are in nade stance the nade will be higher and he will blow it up with illusion. In that case it is best to roll towards where he will land with good timing. If he doesnt blow up the nade, and if you avoided the hitbox with your invincibility frames, you can still punish his landing lag. If the fox catches on and illusions to the ledge, leave nades on the stage (dont bother setting up C4 or claymore if you havent already, waste too much time). Nade stance walk to the ledge, then grab the ledge, he'll either get blown up by the nade or die from trying to go for the ledge.

Utilt and holding jab are a couple of rly good ways to hit fox out of illusion too.

Haha I know I just wrote an incorrigible wall of text but hope you can decipher it. =p

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Also if you get CGed to the ledge watch what the D3 does. If he D-Throws you, you're in a bad spot. As a mixup good D3s will F-Tilt you and if you get hit there goes your jump. If youre forced to cypher early you risk getting grabbed out of it, or Wall of Pained. Either way you'll end up eating a lot of % so be very careful. Also you can get footstooled out of the bomb jump.

Camp for days like Yume said. Avoid doing anything that puts you at risk of being grabbed if you up close or at mid range. D3's grab/pivot grab range is stupid.

 

[solecalibur]

**Suggest the thread title
Dealing with Specific Moves - D3 Chain grab
then continue to what ever we are talking about


If you are talking about d3 grab , I might suggest always keeping in mind where you are on the stage , like seriously most videos im watching recently you guys will do it correctly but will forget your placing on your stage and get cg all the way across the stage , while I just love chillin towards the end of the stage (normally enough space for only one cg but no dtilt follow up)

another suggestion , learn to take your time as most ppl will get get impatient and go for the DACUS or run towards the opponent or just ftilt thinking they will not get sheild grabbed

as stated b4 jab stops any real follow ups d3 has on snake (other then regrab)

 

[napZzz]

super theory fighter galore in this thread

this move beats that move gg obviously

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

I like pivot grabs as D3 comes back to stage and tries to land. But I rarely go for the grab in this match but it usually yields a positive result if you do manage to get it. Its just risky when D3 is grounded and ready. But I ended up playing a good D3 on FD today. Auto canceled Nair is hard to punish as D3 from what I've learned also. Even if he blocks it, it should push him back.

 

[Yumewomiteru]

Unless he Powershields of course, as all the good DDD should do. But then again he shouldn't even try to grab autocanceled Nair, ftilt is much safer.

 

[Crackle]

It seems like all the info about D3's grab is there, I'll organize it and update. Meanwhile the thread title will indicate the next discussion. Suggestions for what move to discuss next?

 

[Yumewomiteru]

Snake's grenades, god I hate them.

 

[Crackle]

Well, lol...my strategy


Camp Battle with Nades:

1) Learn to judge the safety distance from grenades

2) If they will strip, but not cook, double throw the nade back at them

3) If they're being used as a hitbox block on your option, walking/dropping into it and shielding/dodging might be safer than succumbing to a tough fight by moving into the enemy

4) If they like to cook, that's too bad

5) Always keep more nades on their side, this means shorthopping over their strong throws and throwing with the b button, then stripping when it's safe

6) Never strong throw a nade in a way that can be dodged if they're paying attention, that's a waste of an option that will cost you

Figured why not take the post seriously, I'm bored, this probably isn't really helpful

 

[Yumewomiteru]

I play a plethora of Snakes here in NE so I prob have a decent experience against them, but I think countering nades are something thats hardly discussed because everyone always talk about nados and lasers and CGs, so its something good to know in case your stuck in a ditto.

I also would like to add that grabbing works really well against grenade counter, and I dont think any of Snake's throws will set off the nade.

And if the other Snake is pulling nades kinda close to you, you can hit them with dash attack, you can avoid the nade usually because the nade is high in Snake's hand. Even if you blow it up its a plus because you dealt more damage to him than you take. A tossed nade has alot of lag, but Snake can counter your dash attack strat if he shields from nade pull and your slow on the attack, running grab is usually better in that case.

One thing I disagree with is the strong throw, even if they dodge it it leaves the field pretty quickly letting you get another nade back. And even if it doesnt blow up it deals damage just by hitting him. And if it does or hits his shield it will stay near him so he will have to worry about it. Of course thats if your talking about your own nade. If you just hit your opponent off in the air and they dropped a pretty fresh nade near by def throw it at them.

 

[Crackle]

super theory fighter galore in this thread

this move beats that move gg obviously

Well I'm focused more on
- Shutting down the option preemptively if you read it coming or it is working well on you
- Dealing with it if it sets you up in a terrible position
- Punishing it if it can be punished on reaction, as this means free damage

And well, there are "this move beats that move" moments in the game, it's not like we're fighting people that do nothing but roll, dodge, or stand there. Ftilt beats dash grab, for instance, and pivot grab does beat run up -> spotdodge (that's a hell of a read though).

 

[Crackle]

A year and 11 days later, it is time to do this thread right.

Got a new perspective to twist on this now. Time to edit and get back to the drawing board with whatever Snakes pay attention.

 

[Wilmenz]

Good i'll help a bit in this thread.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Well, here is a suggestion for a move to discuss.
Wolf's Bair.
I honestly don't see how that's easily punished. On shield, the move cannot be grabbed, (unless extremely poorly spaced or powershielded) and wolf has an advantage out of it of some effect if you try to do anything after dropping shield. Off of shield, Snake is such a huge target it's not very hard to hit snake.

 

[Crackle]

Definitely a good one. A lot of Wolfs centralize their baits and switch-ups on their Bair.
Wolf jumps backwards at Snake and then the Wolf can
- Rising Bair on shield and land relatively safely
- Rising Bair on Snake's face and followup with a chase and positional advantage
- Land in front of Snake and do a turnaround grab
- Land behind Snake and watch Snake do his defensive reaction
- Change up timing and land a Down-B stun
- Airdodge and fade away

To address the move itself:
- There's early rolling, uptilting, powershielding, spotdodging...
- Softlobbing a nade or having one on a platform nearby gives Wolf something to think about whether he kicks it or catches it


I'll think more about this later I'm actually writing up my chemical presentation today.

 

[False]

I hate D3's grab. A lot. Its range is just stupid.

G+W's bair is easy to deal with for me. I'm okay at SDI, and it just seems like G+W's bair is especially easy to SDI.

But if there's one move I hate that always gives me trouble, it's Wario's bite. At low percents, if you get eaten and spat out, Wario can do a lot of stupid things to you. I have a bad habit of trying to punish it when I see it coming, even though I know it pretty much out prioritizes everything Snake has.

Actually it's quite easy to space Wario's bite with an up tilt. >_>

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

lol I find irony in the fact that we are continuing a conversation from over a year ago.
Doesn't bite act like a grab? If you hit wario the moment you get touched by bite, it will win every time.

 

[False]

It does act as a grab, his mouth has to come in contact with our physical hitbox in order to nomnom us.

If you space an uptilt, the warped gravity part will hit him. :DD

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

lol Or use those knee extensions Snake had implanted.
Generally, I don't see wario use bite unless he is right on top of you, in which case it's better to avoid being near him all together.

 

[False]

lol Or use those knee extensions Snake had implanted.
Generally, I don't see wario use bite unless he is right on top of you, in which case it's better to avoid being near him all together.

A lot of Warios will use it after spot dodging as well.. and it works. -_-

 

[Kuro~]

Tilt beats wiffed bite.

You just got to start thinking like a wario. I play wario so i can generally tell when he's gonna come down with a bite.

Bite is amazing vs. snake though. It's sooo good.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Tifa beats wiffed bite.

This is what I thought it said at first. Yep.

 

[Crackle]

I took out the Wario bite discussion from the first post because the bite is generally only useful on strong reads against Snake. If you get read it's your own damn fault, and if you are under or in a bite it's because you got predictable.

Wolf's Bair is worth discussing, however, as if it stands unaddressed Wolf has a very safe spacing game against Snake (bair and laser).