DDD Social: we livin' in smash 4

[Bobwithlobsters]

Now that you mention balanced brawl, is there anything still happening with that? That is still my favorite brawl mod. I similarly picked mk originally before the game released and before knowing his tier. I only switched after the mk banned times and now feel torn if I should go back and place better or keep fighting for our favorite king. I personally find ddd to be the most fun character to play as but do feel he limits your potential. He falls in that category of really can't win tourneys as a solo main which is frustrating.

Who would make the best secondary for ddd that isn't just a better character. Ie mk doesn't make a good secondary as he just takes over as your main as he is better in every way.

 

[DewDaDash]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1XxPepCfw4 My new theme song guys, best recognize

 

[ぱみゅ]

Nothing hapenned to BBrawl, its developers didn't want to make any unnecesary change so testing were needed, but as you may know, it was considered one of the highest-quality mods yet lacking of popularity, so didn't see much play, let alone testing,

I swear, if I had a Brawl copy, I'd learn gow to PSA and continue what they did.

 

[Bobwithlobsters]

So any one else getting tons of snow right now? Its mid april and we have well over half a foot up here in minnesota and it ain't done yet. This is absurd, it was eighty degrees by this time last year...

 

[CourageHound]

Well theres not much of that snow stuff down here in Florida so I cant imagine, but I'm guessing it's far from the norm since its nearing summer.

Who would make the best secondary for ddd that isn't just a better character. Ie mk doesn't make a good secondary as he just takes over as your main as he is better in every way.

Sein as I use both Dedede and Yoshi, i'm pretty comfortable with almost every matchup, excluding say Falco, MK, and Diddy. A good secondary for the King, could probably be Wario or Marth.(Of whom I'm looking into)

 

[DewDaDash]

Who would make the best secondary for ddd that isn't just a better character. Ie mk doesn't make a good secondary as he just takes over as your main as he is better in every way.

Tbh MK probally makes the best secondary. your two biggest mu problems are going to be mk and ICs. D3 struggles against ICs, so mk is obviously your best pick, i dont think any other character really counters ics except for a select few, which brings me to the next point. Of those select few that counter ICs, those same characters are pretty much useless in other mus, ex rob and peach. You could use maybe snake but even then snake is like 50-50 with ics and loses the mu against MK. What this brings me to is that by having MK as secondary to counter someone like ICs, you now have good experience with the character and familiarity. You can now apply that character to mk dittos as you wont be winning against Top Caliber Mk players as d3, even though we all strive to do so. I personally feel mk is pretty great lately, also the fact that hes a dreamland character so his moveset and playstyle is rather easy to get accustomed to since its basically like a mix between D3 and Melee marth. If your still looking for a secondary outside of mk if you dont feel it fits you is either ICs or snake. Personally I dont like the feel of ICs, too grab dependent for me, and snake is a bit harder for me to be accustomed to, playstyle wise.

 

[Exdeath]

So any one else getting tons of snow right now? Its mid april and we have well over half a foot up here in minnesota and it ain't done yet. This is absurd, it was eighty degrees by this time last year...

It's regularly in the 90s here.

Tbh MK probally makes the best secondary. your two biggest mu problems are going to be mk and ICs. D3 struggles against ICs, so mk is obviously your best pick, i dont think any other character really counters ics except for a select few, which brings me to the next point. Of those select few that counter ICs, those same characters are pretty much useless in other mus, ex rob and peach. You could use maybe snake but even then snake is like 50-50 with ics and loses the mu against MK. What this brings me to is that by having MK as secondary to counter someone like ICs, you now have good experience with the character and familiarity. You can now apply that character to mk dittos as you wont be winning against Top Caliber Mk players as d3, even though we all strive to do so. I personally feel mk is pretty great lately, also the fact that hes a dreamland character so his moveset and playstyle is rather easy to get accustomed to since its basically like a mix between D3 and Melee marth. If your still looking for a secondary outside of mk if you dont feel it fits you is either ICs or snake. Personally I dont like the feel of ICs, too grab dependent for me, and snake is a bit harder for me to be accustomed to, playstyle wise.

I originally wrote a fuller post but then I deleted it, but I believe that is a better secondary for grounded players due to covering more match-ups.

Stage-wise, if you like flat stages with then is better since you can use him for non-flat stages when you're counter-picked there. If you like non-flat stages with then you'll likewise prefer since you'll have them for that (if your opponent knows that you have a respectable , it can completely eliminate stages like FD before the match even begins, opening up your ability to ban a different stage vs. characters like ).

It mostly comes down to playstyle and even more so what you're willing to put the time into, though.

 

[DewDaDash]

I also forgot to add as a d3 main I like going delfino. Sometimes i get cpd mk, the best option in this case would be to go mk as well. going ICs in this case would lose the battle.

 

[Exdeath]

I also forgot to add as a d3 main I like going delfino. Sometimes i get cpd mk, the best option in this case would be to go mk as well. going ICs in this case would lose the battle.

Delfino has different transitions, some of which are 's best stage(s) in the game (e.g. the flat patio area). The only ones that are good for are the metal stage where he can shark and the three pillars. If can avoid when he sharks then it's actually a better stage for in the MU.

 

[Bobwithlobsters]

Picking up ice climbers as a secondary means you will need to learn the ditto which is probably the weirdest ditto in this game... I would take the mk ditto over that even if it is probably the best understood ditto in this game.

 

[Exdeath]

Picking up ice climbers as a secondary means you will need to learn the ditto which is probably the weirdest ditto in this game... I would take the mk ditto over that even if it is probably the best understood ditto in this game.

It's easier to beat mains in the ditto than it is in the ditto. pockets won't beat a main on the same level of play as them, while the same is not historically true for pockets (e.g. N@kat).

 

[Bobwithlobsters]

It's easier to beat mains in the ditto than it is in the ditto. pockets won't beat a main on the same level of play as them, while the same is not historically true for pockets (e.g. N@kat).

Yeah I can agree with that. We should set up an ice climbers ditto training plan so we can best all the ice climbers in the silliest ditto matches.

 

[Exdeath]

Shank Nana and then fondle Popo until Usmash kills.

 

[bubbaking]

Now that you mention balanced brawl, is there anything still happening with that? That is still my favorite brawl mod. I similarly picked mk originally before the game released and before knowing his tier. I only switched after the mk banned times and now feel torn if I should go back and place better or keep fighting for our favorite king. I personally find ddd to be the most fun character to play as but do feel he limits your potential. He falls in that category of really can't win tourneys as a solo main which is frustrating.

Who would make the best secondary for ddd that isn't just a better character. Ie mk doesn't make a good secondary as he just takes over as your main as he is better in every way.

Wow, you are literally me down to the letter (regarding your first paragraph). I find Marth to be a good 2nd for DDD. They cover each other very well. Marth can take out the ICs, Olimar, ZSS, and Pika, and he does very well against MK, compared to the rest of the cast (dare I say, he goes even with him on certain stages if you play and react really well). DDD can take out opposing fellow Marths and can also beat most mid/low tiers much better than Marth can. Personally, I like G&W as a secondary (does better against Olimar, about as well against ZSS, and, most importantly, goes even against fellow DDDs whom I'd rather NOT go through the pain of a ditto against), but a lot of top DDDs (Seibrik, Atomsk, and Coney) have Wario as a secondary, probably because he goes even against all of Top Tier that isn't MK (no one beats him) or Marth (DDD beats him anyway), thus solving DDD's 'Top Tier problem' (all his losing MUs come from Top Tier). In this respect, DDD/Wario is probably nigh perfect coverage, as far as dealing with what you're most likely to see in tournament, but I still think DDD/Marth is a really solid core as well.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

Wow, you are literally me down to the letter (regarding your first paragraph). I find Marth to be a good 2nd for DDD. They cover each other very well. Marth can take out the ICs, Olimar, ZSS, and Pika, and he does very well against MK, compared to the rest of the cast (dare I say, he goes even with him on certain stages if you play and react really well).

wat

 

[CourageHound]

wat

Marth can psuedo go even with metaknight on certain stages like;(correct me if I'm wrong), battlefield and Yoshi's Island. At least I think those would be favorable stages for marth given his flexibility.

 

[Exdeath]

Marth can psuedo go even with metaknight on certain stages like;(correct me if I'm wrong), battlefield and Yoshi's Island. At least I think those would be favorable stages for marth given his flexibility.

Marth main*

Also, YI:B is not conducive to technical landing characters like and especially .

 

[Deleted member 189823]

I have a hard time seeing Marth go even or even -1 against MK unless the player is like, Mikeneko, Mr.R or something. Doesn't MK gimp Marth somewhat easily? I mean, yeah, MK doesn't reach you if you space perfectly- But you have to do it. You have to play perfectly.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Marth is NOT easy to gimp, not even for MK. He can mix up his recovery so much so it can be really difficult. The thing is that any gimp always mean a lot, specially becaose both Marth and MK have trouble scoring kills normally and MK can make it up with gimps while Marth can not unless he gets lucky (GR to spike or a very well placed Fsmash).

Also, grounded Marth outranges almost every option of MK, and deals more damage.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

I'm aware that MK can't really Marth if he's recovering from below to the ledge. But I think he has a really hard time once MK is all over him (AKA, when you stop spacing perfectly) and once he's in the air...yeah. :/

 

[bubbaking]

I have a hard time seeing Marth go even or even -1 against MK unless the player is like, Mikeneko, Mr.R or something. Doesn't MK gimp Marth somewhat easily? I mean, yeah, MK doesn't reach you if you space perfectly- But you have to do it. You have to play perfectly.

You're crazy if you think that Marth:MK is -2 or worse, thus believing that it's as bad as TL:MK or Kirby:MK. Mikeneko and Mr. R are the standard for Marth when it comes to high/top-level play. If they can do well, then it means that other Marths should be able to as well. Marth has some nice tools against MK nonsense, like a frame 1 invincibe upB that he can do OoS (or even after being hit in some cases) if MK is trying to pressure him with 'nado.

Marth is NOT easy to gimp, not even for MK. He can mix up his recovery so much so it can be really difficult. The thing is that any gimp always mean a lot, specially becaose both Marth and MK have trouble scoring kills normally and MK can make it up with gimps while Marth can not unless he gets lucky (GR to spike or a very well placed Fsmash).

Also, grounded Marth outranges almost every option of MK, and deals more damage.

Meh, Marth's recovery can be easy to gimp sometimes if only because you only need to hit him once before he's out for good thanks to its almost full dependence on his mostly vertical upB. I've seen Zero really destroy some Marths' recoveries (including my own) for not being practically psychic while recovering.
However, I don't think Marth has trouble scoring kills normally. You have GR > spike and the GR can combo into easier things than spike if you want. Then you have upB (can be done OoS or during a failed string) and bunch of tippered stuff other than fsmash (dsmash, usmash, uair, bair, nair, SB, DB, and even utilt can kill pretty well at high %'s when fresh).

I'm aware that MK can't really Marth if he's recovering from below to the ledge. But I think he has a really hard time once MK is all over him (AKA, when you stop spacing perfectly) and once he's in the air...yeah. :/

Actually, MK really is no more privileged than anyone else. If he hits Marth's shield, he's going to eat a full DB or DS (probably DB for the sake of practicality) whether he likes it or not. Heck, even usmash OoS might be a nifty response. Besides, that just means you need to space better. :3

 

[Exdeath]

has plenty of ways to gimp and they tend to be 50/50 scenarios that are far in his favor. If you know how to option-select teching into Nair and Up-B then gimping will happen often. It's still even at top level.

EDIT: Good stuff to DewDaDash on placing 2nd in doubles and 3rd in singles on Saturday. I hope you can still make it out to PRElude, but if you don't then that's not a bad note to go out on.

 

[bubbaking]

How do 50/50 scenarios end up in one's favor?

 

[Exdeath]

How do 50/50 scenarios end up in one's favor?

I can't tell if your being serious or not, but when Player A's victory condition is to flip a heads and Player B has to flip a tails and then flip another coin in order to win, the advantage is considerably in Player A's favor.

 

[Bobwithlobsters]

I agree that marth is a fantastic secondary for ddd with regards to matchups but I feel he has a very high upkeep as a character. To play marth at a high level I feel he is one of the higher maintainance characters. The required spacing and movement and just general play style makes it very hard for me to pick up marth.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Marth is definetly not secondary material, the execution level you require with him needs tons of practice.
I have never felt on point with the execution of my Marth, and for me he's pretty much a co-main I have never used on tournament.

 

[bubbaking]

You know you can spend quite a bit of time on a 'secondary', right? You can even spend more time on your 'secondary' than you do on your 'main'. That's what I do and I still feel most comfortable with DDD in a competitive setting (and thus use him for the most sets, confirming that he is indeed my 'main'). Marth may be a tough secondary to develop, but he can still be quite successful as a secondary if you put time into it.

Or you could just main Marth and secondary DDD, since that's easier and Marth still has MUs that DDD could take care of for him.

@Exdeath: You never clarified that one of the choices was simply resetting the situation to neutral. In a 50/50 situation, one of the choices could give one a great reward while the other would net him a harsh punishment. Since we were talking about MK gimping Marth, that's what I assumed, since a mistake on MK's part can end up with him being stage-spiked by DS (I literally just saw this happen to Pink Fresh today ). You should take greater care to make sure your posts are clear and concise. If someone questions what you said, don't just assume he is being silly.

Now I actually disagree with your post. I somewhat agreed with the 50/50 deal when using my interpretation of it, but if we're using yours, then it's actually something like a 50/25/25, IMO, with the '50' being MK's chance of being rewarded while gimping Marth, '25' being Marth's chance of punishing MK for making the wrong choice, and '25' being the chance of the situation going to neutral completely.

 

[Exdeath]

@Exdeath: You never clarified that one of the choices was simply resetting the situation to neutral. In a 50/50 situation, one of the choices could give one a great reward while the other would net him a harsh punishment. Since we were talking about MK gimping Marth, that's what I assumed, since a mistake on MK's part can end up with him being stage-spiked by DS (I literally just saw this happen to Pink Fresh today ). You should take greater care to make sure your posts are clear and concise. If someone questions what you said, don't just assume he is being silly.

Now I actually disagree with your post. I somewhat agreed with the 50/50 deal when using my interpretation of it, but if we're using yours, then it's actually something like a 50/25/25, IMO, with the '50' being MK's chance of being rewarded while gimping Marth, '25' being Marth's chance of punishing MK for making the wrong choice, and '25' being the chance of the situation going to neutral completely.

I didn't assume that you were being silly. I assumed that you were being condescending for whatever reason. I was explaining the concept, not the situation. I'm also at a loss for how you can think that having a 50% chance of taking a stock vs. a 25% chance of taking ~7 damage is anything but strongly in one's favor. getting stage-spiked shouldn't happen often since he can just rotate shield buttons to option-select it with his attacks.

 

[DewDaDash]

exdeath have you played daisy yet? If you have Id like to discuss what to do in the ICs mu. I know a couple of things but still feel like I could improve in the MU. (Just Mk btw, i dropped d3 in this mu)

 

[Exdeath]

exdeath have you played daisy yet? If you have Id like to discuss what to do in the ICs mu. I know a couple of things but still feel like I could improve in the MU. (Just Mk btw, i dropped d3 in this mu)

I'll catch you on AIM. There's no reason to use vs. instead of haha.

 

[CourageHound]

Hey guys. So I wanted to ask you all, what are your favorite things about King Dedede outside of his brawl character. Just DDD in general?

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I dislike Dedede everywhere that isn't Brawl. :3

 

[Jabejazz]

Hey guys. So I wanted to ask you all, what are your favorite things about King Dedede outside of his brawl character. Just DDD in general?

It'd be faster listing the things I dislike about TripleD :

-Nothing.

 

[CourageHound]

I dislike Dedede everywhere that isn't Brawl. :3

Lolzers. That's respectable

It'd be faster listing the things I dislike about TripleD :

-Nothing.

Awesome~

 

[bubbaking]

He's a noble king who once tried to save Dreamland...........until that annoying pink puffball got in the way (actually not kidding)!

I didn't assume that you were being silly. I assumed that you were being condescending for whatever reason. I was explaining the concept, not the situation. I'm also at a loss for how you can think that having a 50% chance of taking a stock vs. a 25% chance of taking ~7 damage is anything but strongly in one's favor. getting stage-spiked shouldn't happen often since he can just rotate shield buttons to option-select it with his attacks.

Actually, I DO think that is in MK's favor (when partitioned like that). I was disagreeing that the scenario is truly 50/50, and I was also saying that if it was actually 50/50, then it would not necessarily be in MK's favor, depending on what the 'unsuccessful 50' entails.

You say "shouldn't", but the fact of the matter is that it still happens. Even top players are hit by it and the very real possibility of it happening shapes their decision-making when Marth is in position to upB to the ledge. People usually don't really option-select most of their actions with unseen and mostly unused button presses, I think.

 

[Grizzlpaw]

Yo, what's not to like? King D3 knows how to live~

And he's got that swag winter coat that he wears wherever he goes. I'd like to see MK try wearing a big *** coat in the middle of a volcano.

 

[Sunnysunny]

Pros:
He's a fat penguin

Cons:
He sits on my character
He's a fat penguin.

It's quite conflicting.

 

[Grizzlpaw]

You forgot that he's a fat penguin.

Edit: Sunny, do you use D3 by chance?

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Yo, what's not to like? King D3 knows how to live~

And he's got that swag winter coat that he wears wherever he goes. I'd like to see MK try wearing a big *** coat in the middle of a volcano.

The coat breathes really well though, so he can wear it anywhere~

I've been meaning to ask, where did you get your avatar frawm.

Also

did you know your yoshi gif thing has a rouge pixel that appears. i cannot unsee it.

 

[DewDaDash]

Guys you hear that d3 is mid tier now? We can actually win tourneys frequently again! ;D Midtier tournys ftw