Day, Night, and Dusk - Lycanroc for Smash Bros. Ultimate

MasteRMerF

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Phew, been a little overwhelmed. Allow me to get caught up here...


Spirits are essentially the new trophies, and considering Mewtwo and Lucas had trophies in the base version of Smash 4, I think we can safely say it won't be a problem. While Assist Trophies are in a bad spot, I don't think any characters who appear as spirits are out of the running whatsoever. Especially since Sakurai seemed to say that DLC production is just now beginning, meaning any planning was likely very recent and so the list of spirits was made without taking potential DLC into account.


I think...if we get a new 'mon in this wave, it'll be us unless they throw another Plant-style curveball our way. The Dusk form especially has become a very big deal over the course of Ultimate's development, to the point where we overshadow Decidueye both in prominence and in having more unique stuff to offer. Sceptile made a few splashes in the Ballot, but I don't think the level of support was as overwhelming as it was for K. Rool in the like, so I don't think we'd be upstaged in that way either.

We need to get in with this wave, though, because if Wave 2 happens--which, who knows at this point--it'll be starting after the torch will have been passed to Gen 8. Either we make it now, or we're left behind forever like Zoroark was.


On the contrary, I think the reason we haven't seen a full on feral character yet is because...the opportunity just hasn't arisen for it. Ivysaur relies on prehensile vines and plant parts because it makes sense for Ivysaur to do so. Duck Hunt has a bunch of wacky animations and projectiles because the dog and duck are practically cartoon characters. We just haven't had a straight up feral character in the situation the Midday and Dusk forms are in, and the only other such character who comes to mind as a viable option is Amaterasu (who is probably overshadowed on Capcom's end by Monster Hunter and the like).

Correlation does not mean causation, and in this case, connections that may seem like they're there at first glance don't actually apply at all.


Also, how about we officially welcome @Talos_3rd and @KingTorra to the ranks! Thanks for reminding me.
Welcome to the family, guys! Also 61 supporters WOO :happysheep:
 

LukeRNG

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Our situation is extremely dependant of the situacion with dlc:

-If at least half of the dlc characters has been planed, we have a decent chance.

-If all dlc characters have already been picked, then we could have a double-edged sword situation depending on when dlc characters have been chosen: if it was around 2016 then we might have a few issues, if it was around 2017, then i'd say it's our best shot.

-If none of the dlc characters have been picked, we also could have a great shot due to Lycanroc's importance in the first half of this year's anime season.

So dlc picks from 2017 onwards is when we could get our best shot if sakurai sees lycanroc's potential, but as Delzethin said, we have to get in this dlc wave or we're out. It's not imposible, we could get another Fire Emblem situation where Sakurai might hesitate with the inclusion of another pokemon, but prioritizes it's unique moveset + anime popularity and amount of promotion to then include it regardless.

Incineroar was probably an identical situation to Greninja where from all the concept art it looked the most interesting pick from the available gen 7 pokemon (cause pokemon like decidueye and midday lycanroc didn't look very versatile or interesting in their artwork compared to Incineroar), which could tell us one of 2 things:

-Incineroar is about to get the Greninja treatment in the anime (whether it's done right or it's rushed + it has happened before that Ash had one ace in one season and suddenly changes to having another ace in the next season, ie: Turtwig to Chimchar, every time with pikachu to whatever new pokemon ash gets).

-Sakurai picked the pokemon preliminarily from first impresions.

It's all up in the air and all we can do is wait and see what happens. And i'm afraid we might have to wait up till February when Piranha Plant releases.
 

RandomAce

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Look, not trying to be a downer, but don't you think there's a reason that such a build has been "untapped" and that the only "quadrupeds" Smash has specifically have realistic alternative means to work around the issues a "true" quadruped would have?

Midnight is the best bet Lycanroc has.
And honestly?
Would be pretty cool to have both of Cross' Pokémon able to team up in Smash, not going to lie.


A feral werewolf with rock powers and a heavy focus on punishing opponents using fake outs and cheap tricks (which yes, would include baiting with a counter) would be something right up Sakurai's alley.
I’ll counterpoint.

The main reason why there wasn’t really any “true” quadrupeds is mainly because there isn’t a lot of viable choices for one to begin with. Ivysaur was extremely lucky to get in due to Pokémon Trainer, and Duck Hunt was a character that wasn’t speculated at all before their inclusion as a retro character. Lycanroc is (or “was” depending on how you see it) one of the few viable characters to also potentially be a quadruped.

Although creating moves for a quadruped is a little more unorthodox than standard characters, it’s not impossible or even that difficult. The Midday and Dusk forms can at least use bites, paw swipes, and/or contort their body for some kicks for moves if needed. They are also able to use stone edge or summon rocks for some others as well using their paws as well. I know we’re not Sakurai, but seeing how he made a moveset for a DLC character I want to forget (Pirahna Plant), I don’t think it would be troubling for him.

In terms of likeliness, Dusk is probably the most likely. But there isn’t anything really stopping Sakurai if he wanted to include the Midnight form, since it did have it’s own time in the spotlight before. Or if he wanted to include all the forms in some way, the possibility is there and can work if enough thought is put into it.

EDIT: Looks like we passed 60 supporters, let’s keep it up.
 
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I’ll counterpoint.

The main reason why there wasn’t really any “true” quadrupeds is mainly because there isn’t a lot of viable choices for one to begin with. Ivysaur was extremely lucky to get in due to Pokémon Trainer, and Duck Hunt was a character that wasn’t speculated at all before their inclusion as a retro character. Lycanroc is (or “was” depending on how you see it) one of the few viable characters to also potentially be a quadruped.
And I'll counterpoint the counterpoint.

"Viable" is the wrong word to use in your point about Ivysaur and Duck Hunt. Viable means they are able to work, which is what I'm in favor of for them and not for a "true" quadruped.
The word you're looking for is "plausible", as that has to do with the possibility rather than functionality.

As for plausibility, that's actually irrelevant to be honest.
It doesn't matter if Ivysaur was "lucky" or not nor does it matter that Duck Hunt wasn't given much discussion as that really changes nothing about the point that they readily had workarounds (Ivysaur having vines and Duck Hunt incorporating a duck as well as the fact the dog is capable of bipedalism) to function properly in not just how they fight, but how they can interact with everything within Smash. If these workarounds weren't there, they wouldn't have been so "lucky".
Midday and Dusk are at a severe disadvantage in that regard with their designs.


Although creating moves for a quadruped is a little more unorthodox than standard characters, it’s not impossible or even that difficult. The Midday and Dusk forms can at least use bites, paw swipes, and/or contort their body for some kicks for moves if needed. They are also able to use stone edge or summon rocks for some others as well using their paws as well.
Not impossible? Agreed.
Not even that difficult? Heavily disagree.

Calling in Thirdkoopa Thirdkoopa here to give his input on the matter, but I will say my piece at least.

One can easily just think of ideas that sound good on a piece of paper or in text, but it's a different story when attempting to execute said ideas. Angelglory gave a good example of this a while back when drafting a K. Rool moveset for his mod; some ideas he had for his moves just wouldn't work when actually trying to animate K. Rool doing them due to his design actively working against being able to perform said moves.

This is where a lot of the concepts given to make a full quadruped like Midday/Dusk Lycanroc "function" in Smash fall flat from my perspective.
Sure, they sound "decent" enough as easy solutions to basic problems, but they are really hard to envision looking right in practice.
 
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GlaceonGD

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While dusk is my favorite of the three forms I really don't mind which one gets in, I still like all their designs. Dusk arguably has the most promotion and the bigger role which is why we've chosen that as our main support but we should look at it from every angle, is it possible that if they did go with lycanroc as a DLC character they chose midnight form because of it's stature and design/because dusk's concept wasn't fully finished? US/UM, Xenoblade Chronicles 2, and Arms were all released 2017 if my memory serves me correct and if Rex and Springman couldn't make it in does that mean dusk is out of the running too? There's no real way to tell yet, and that midnight form concept art, have we seen a midnight form lycanroc fight a lucario in the anime/a movie? I don't watch them so I wouldn't know and while it probably just means nothing maybe it's something worth looking into. It's really late right now and I typically get into my crazy conspiracy/complicated/confusing ideas around this time so feel free to correct me or get me back on track if I'm straying a bit too far here. Will try to post more, sorry for inactivity again. (if that isnt actually the concept art for midnight sorry im way too tired to check)
 
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because dusk's concept wasn't fully finished? US/UM, Xenoblade Chronicles 2, and Arms were all released 2017 if my memory serves me correct and if Rex and Springman couldn't make it in does that mean dusk is out of the running too?
As I've said before, Dusk Lycanroc's best bet is if they were already working on the midday form. Apparently that still holds true in the DLC phase of development.

But at the same time, it seems weird that Xenoblade 2 and ARMS are both too new but not Luigi's Mansion 3.
the dog is capable of bipedalism
There are also a couple moments in which Ash's Lycanroc goes on two feet. Example:
358.jpg
 
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Cosmic77

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Honestly, I don't see how we can still have the quad Lycanroc arguement when our first DLC character's generic form doesn't even have real arms or legs. You really think creating a moveset for THAT was easier than coming up with one for Lycanroc?

Don't overthink it. If Sakurai really wants something, he'll make it work, regardless of how weird or funky it looks.
 

RandomAce

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And I'll counterpoint the counterpoint.

"Viable" is the wrong word to use in your point about Ivysaur and Duck Hunt. Viable means they are able to work, which is what I'm in favor of for them and not for a "true" quadruped.
The word you're looking for is "plausible", as that has to do with the possibility rather than functionality.

As for plausibility, that's actually irrelevant to be honest.
It doesn't matter if Ivysaur was "lucky" or not nor does it matter that Duck Hunt wasn't given much discussion as that really changes nothing about the point that they readily had workarounds (Ivysaur having vines and Duck Hunt incorporating a duck as well as the fact the dog is capable of bipedalism) to function properly in not just how they fight, but how they can interact with everything within Smash. If these workarounds weren't there, they wouldn't have been so "lucky".
Midday and Dusk are at a severe disadvantage in that regard with their designs.




Not impossible? Agreed.
Not even that difficult? Heavily disagree.

Calling in Thirdkoopa Thirdkoopa here to give his input on the matter, but I will say my piece at least.

One can easily just think of ideas that sound good on a piece of paper or in text, but it's a different story when attempting to execute said ideas. Angelglory gave a good example of this a while back when drafting a K. Rool moveset for his mod; some ideas he had for his moves just wouldn't work when actually trying to animate K. Rool doing them due to his design actively working against being able to perform said moves.

This is where a lot of the concepts given to make a full quadruped like Midday/Dusk Lycanroc "function" in Smash fall flat from my perspective.
Sure, they sound "decent" enough as easy solutions to basic problems, but they are really hard to envision looking right in practice.
Should’ve worded a bit better than needing a grammar lesson.

I mentioned one thing that makes the Midday and Dusk forms seem more plausible, and that’s Pirahna Plant. Yes, Lycanroc and Pirahna Plant are drastically different from one another but when Sakurai can create a moveset for a characters that’s literally... well... this:

7750088D-6AF8-4E54-B683-5E87DFDFF147.jpeg


A character without really any arms or feet to fight, I don’t think Sakurai may have a hard time with a quadruped Lycanroc that has more things it can do for attacks.
 
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Honestly, I don't see how we can still have the quad Lycanroc arguement when our first DLC character's generic form doesn't even have real arms or legs. You really think creating a moveset for THAT was easier than coming up with one for Lycanroc?
Should’ve worded a bit better than needing a grammar lesson.

I mentioned one thing that makes the Midday and Dusk forms seem more plausible, and that’s Pirahna Plant. Yes, Lycanroc and Pirahna Plant are drastically different from one another but when Sakurai can create a moveset for a characters that’s literally... well... this:

View attachment 175603

A character without any legs or feet to fight, I don’t think Sakurai may have a hard time with a quadruped Lycanroc that has more things it can do for attacks.

You two do realize that having small arms hadn't stopped characters like Jigglypuff and that there is another fighter that doesn't have legs, right?


Piranha Plant is a poor counterargument to be frank....

EDIT: And that's not even getting into the Jr. Clown Car.....
 
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Cosmic77

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You two do realize that having small arms hadn't stopped characters like Jigglypuff and that there is another fighter that doesn't have legs, right?


Piranha Plant is a poor counterargument to be frank....

EDIT: And that's not even getting into the Jr. Clown Car.....
And that's my point. If Sakurai found a way to work with those characters, why would Lycanroc suddenly be too much for him to handle? It's not like Sakurai immediately had an idea of how Bowser Jr would jump and move around if he was constantly in the Jr. Clown Car, or how Duck Hunt would even work as a fighter to begin with.

I'm a little confused by what you're trying to get at. Small arms doesn't stop Jigglypuff, no legs doesn't stop ROB, but being a quad stops Lycanroc because there's absolutely no reason to believe that Sakurai could get creative enough (or rather, take the time) to find a workaround on his own? Kinda feels like another one of those popular "Captain Toad can't jump" arguments.
 
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Garteam

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If Sakurai is really, really struggling to get around certain aspects of Lycanroc being a quadraped, he could always take inspiration from Wham Bam Rock from Kirby Super Star and give him a nifty pair of geokinetic rock hands.

Besides, I think we all know how much Sakurai likes to reference Kirby Super Star in Smash Bros.
 
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SupriceSupplies

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Besides, I think we all know how much Sakurai likes to reference Kirby Super Star in Smash Bros.
As a supporter of a certain character, I've seen that topic come up more times than I can count.

But anyway, after Ridley (a character Sakurai had clearly stated was too difficult to work with prior to Ultimate) and Piranha plant (who I shouldn't even get started on) I don't think there are many characters Sakurai can't make a moveset for.
 

RandomAce

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You two do realize that having small arms hadn't stopped characters like Jigglypuff and that there is another fighter that doesn't have legs, right?


Piranha Plant is a poor counterargument to be frank....

EDIT: And that's not even getting into the Jr. Clown Car.....
I’ll add onto what Cosmic77 Cosmic77 said before.
There’s a lot of characters with limitations that Sakurai had to work around that he was able to implement into the game well.

Having 2/3 of Lycanroc being a quadruped isn’t a big obstacle for Sakurai to the point of not implementing them. I think we’re looking a bit too much into things and undermining Sakurai’s ability with what he and his team can do. There have been many times where Sakurai has even broken his own boundaries when it comes to creating movesets. From Villager, Miis, and Pac Man for Smash 4, and Ridley for Smash Ultimate.

What’s your thought behind Lycanroc though?
 
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Delzethin

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Based on how the Smash Direct described DLC, it sounds like development started just recently. That makes it seem like characters were also chosen within no earlier than the last few months or so.

With that in mind...I've been weighing the idea of us going all in on the Dusk form, since it'd probably be top priority after everything that's happened from 2017 onward. That said, I only want to do so if the rest of you are on board with it, since I know we all have our own preferences for certain forms over others. Thoughts, everyone?
 
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I’ll add onto what Cosmic77 Cosmic77 said before.
There’s a lot of characters with limitations that Sakurai had to work around that he was able to implement into the game well.

Having 2/3 of Lycanroc being a quadruped isn’t a big obstacle for Sakurai to the point of not implementing them. I think we’re looking a bit too much into things and undermining Sakurai’s ability with what he and his team can do. There have been many times where Sakurai has even broken his own boundaries when it comes to creating movesets. From Villager, Miis, and Pac Man for Smash 4, and Ridley for Smash Ultimate.

What’s your thought behind Lycanroc though?
That 1/3 that isn't is precisely why I'm saying Midnight has the best odds.
Yes, Dusk is the one that gets the most exposure due to being what Ash has, but the fact that a version of Lycanroc exists that is far more feasible in design and doesn't require any special workarounds and can offer a unique fighting style on principle of baiting and punishing if the opponent responds incorrectly to the bait given honestly overrides that.

And it's not like Midnight is any slouch in exposure either, considering it had movie status alongside Incineroar and Gladion's Lycanroc in the anime exists with a rivalry with Ash's that has been constantly pointed out in this very thread.
 
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RandomAce

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That 1/3 that isn't is precisely why I'm saying Midnight has the best odds.
Yes, Dusk is the one that gets the most exposure due to being what Ash has, but the fact that a version of Lycanroc exists that is far more feasible in design and doesn't require any special workarounds and can offer a unique fighting style on principle of baiting and punishing if the opponent responds incorrectly to the bait given honestly overrides that.

And it's not like Midnight is any slouch in exposure either, considering it had movie status alongside Incineroar and Gladion's Lycanroc in the anime exists with a rivalry with Ash's that has been constantly pointed out in this very thread.
Yeah, but my counterpoint was that Dusk/Midday Lycanroc isn’t as unfeasible you may think it is, and that if Sakurai wanted to include either the Dusk or Midday form, it isn’t out of his range to do so. I do agree that Midnight and Midday aren’t that far behind, I’ve said it a couple of time before that they had their own eras where they were at the for front, and it’s possible that the Midnight (and /or Midday) form can get in.

However, it’s entirely dependent on how Sakurai wants to represent the character.

At least, I assume that is what you were arguing about.

Based on how the Smash Direct described DLC, it sounds like development started just recently. That makes it seem like characters were also chosen within no earlier than the last few months or so.

With that in mind...I've been weighing the idea of us going all in on the Dusk form, since it'd probably be top priority after everything that's happened from 2017 onward. That said, I only want to do so if the rest of you are on board with it, since I know we all have our own preferences for certain forms over others. Thoughts, everyone?
A lot of Lycanroc’s points do come from Dusk already, so I think we’re fine as is.

And I think it’s best to at least be open to other possibilities and the other forms. Some people may feel left out a bit if our focus is solely on 1 form that may not be their favorite. It happened to me for some time, so I don’t want anyone else to go through that.
 
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Lycanroc is completely absent from the base game just like Bandana Dee.
I think Lycanroc would have been a better inclusion than Incenaroar, though Sakurai had to work with concept art and his movepool.
But now that Lycanroc is popular in the anime, he could be coming.
Also Ash's Torrcat was important during October Anime season.
Near Ultimate's release
 

Cosmic77

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Lycanroc is completely absent from the base game just like Bandana Dee.
I think Lycanroc would have been a better inclusion than Incenaroar, though Sakurai had to work with concept art and his movepool.
But now that Lycanroc is popular in the anime, he could be coming.
Also Ash's Torrcat was important during October Anime season.
Near Ultimate's release
Ash's Torracat didn't do squat in October, and it really hasn't done much since it evolved aside from battling with Masked Royal and Incineroar in one episode.

I guess there's not much of a point in arguing about anime prevalence now that Incineroar is already in Smash, but it still hasn't done anything yet that makes me think it was the best choice. If Incineroar had more of an impact in the 20th movie like Mewtwo and Lucario did in their own film, I might've thought it was more deserving. Instead, it was used for a fight scene and that was pretty much it.

I suppose the anime isn't over just yet though. Maybe they'll suprise me and have Torracat go through some rushed character development or something.
 

Luigifan18

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Hey guys, new tweets from Sakurai came in.


So, who are the lucky contestants? We'll just have to wait and see...
 
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I think then Microsoft characters are now off the table. I think that Lycanroc would be a priority. They will push Pokemon. But it could be a Gen 8 becuase of timing. I also think that exsisting franchises will be high priority. Lycanroc, Bandana Dee, King Boo all will be high priority. Also, Koei Techmo is probably getting a rep. Lycanroc has a big boost
 

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This does definitely give us a bigger chance if we're one of the earlier dlc picks. I do have to wonder who the picks are though, because it was now Nintendo's say on the list of characters to include, with Sakurai saying who they could work with. We now have to put ourselves in the mind of Nintendo and try to think if we could fit in their philosophy, which might be easier said than done.
This would give us 3 posible outcomes:
1-. There's no new pokemon.
2-. They add a pokemon from gen 7 early in 2019.
3-. They add the most advertised pokemon from gen 8 near the end of 2019 or in early 2020, almost like a corrin situation.
I honestly think our situation is now more 50/50, which isn't bad but truly very nerve wracking.

However, i am worried that Nintendo made a list of characters we know nothing about and will be made dlc just to promote future games like: Fire Emblem Three Houses, Pokemon Gen 8, etc. I wouldn't mind one of those as long as we get an interesting character that becomes a fan favorite like Greninja, because i was quite dissapointed with Corrin in smash and he's a bad character in fates.
Not only that, if many of the dlc's are only to promote future releases, gen 8 could have a higher chance to be picked.
Let's just hope Lycanroc is on that list and Sakurai saw the potential in it to choose it.
 
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This is the ultimate smash game. I’d much rather have our wolf than get stuck with some chair Pokémon (you know it’s coming, we already have household appliance rotom and a ****ing keychain) or rip-off modern charmander
 
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Luigifan18

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Hey! Did Lycanroc get confirmed last night, or-

...
...
...
...That was just me dreaming, huh? I figured as such when Snorlax and 3 other Pokémon joined it...
 

Cosmic77

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In a way, I think this kinda helps us.

...Maybe?

Truth be told, I don't know what to think. If Nintendo is responsible for choosing the reps, then that also opens the door to Gen 8. Would they go with Lycanroc, a Pokemon who's relevant but will certainly be out of the spotlight in less than a year?
 
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Lycanroc's more likely than gen 8. I still don't get why people are saying there's gonna be Edelgard and a gen 8 Pokemon when Sakurai said Rex was too new even for DLC.

Even then, I'm sorry to say, but I'd rather focus on helping Golden Sun fans get their earthbender.
 
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Delzethin

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It's...hard to say what this means for us, with Nintendo being the ones sending suggestions Sakurai's way. Odds are, we'll see a lot of people assume Nintendo must be forcing the Ultimate devs into complying, but...I kinda doubt it'd be like that, you know? Why wouldn't things stay professional between these team leaders who've been colleagues and friends for so long?

If anything, this could mean there'll be more first party picks than we'd initially believed, which would help us indirectly. Beyond that, though...hard to say.

Lycanroc's more likely than gen 8. I still don't get why people are saying there's gonna be Edelgard and a gen 8 Pokemon when Sakurai said Rex was too new even for DLC.
It's another logic trap, so to speak. People see big new games on the horizon, and assume that of course the devs must want to stick a newcomer in from there to advertise the games. It gets to the point where any newcomer from a newer release is assumed to only be in Smash for cross-promotion purposes--just ask Corrin, who gets treated like dirt for it despite actually getting here over than half a year after Fire Emblem Fates' debut in Japan!

And it's actually that window that I think gives us an idea of where we stand. We've seen the Smash devs show wariness about adding characters too quickly--the only time anyone's even joined Smash before their own debut is Roy, and that as only because his game got delayed late in development! Because of these factors, I highly doubt we'll see anyone from Gen 8 until Spring 2020 or so, out of the running unless we get a second season of DLC. We could get a Three Houses character as one of the later picks in this set, though, since it's set to be out this spring, but that's neither here nor there.
 
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I think we're getting Sans as DLC bare with me


Undertale is one of the best Indie games of all time with its revolutionary RPG system of mercy and with a huge fandom, its something Shovel Knight doesnt hold a candle too

And he got in as a assisst


Also Lycanroc is Ash's signature mon but also is a really popular mon

Hes nearly a lock
 
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And it's actually that window that I think gives us an idea of where we stand. We've seen the Smash devs show wariness about adding characters too quickly--the only time anyone's even joined Smash before their own debut is Roy, and that as only because his game got delayed late in development! Because of these factors, I highly doubt we'll see anyone from Gen 8 until Spring 2020 or so, out of the running unless we get a second season of DLC. We could get a Three Houses character as one of the later picks in this set, though, since it's set to be out this spring, but that's neither here nor there.
But then Lycanroc really only has two big competition from first party's

King Boo- who has seniroity and Luigi's Mansion 3 is comming out during DLC window, and because he is first party he will have higher priority


And Bandana Dee
 

LukeRNG

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So does anyone here consider Mii costumes as deconfirmation of a character, cause i completely forgot that the chrom mii costume is back.
Also, while i don't think we're getting too many recent characters in smash (completely forgot sakurai's statements on recent characters), there would be at least 1 at some point + characters from 2017 games have a solid chance to join smash, including Dusk Lycanroc. But i do believe another thing against recent characters from Fire Emblem Three Houses and especially gen 8 is people would be buying characters they know nothing about. Corrin was already known in Japan and even if i don't like him personally, he does have a unique and different look than most of the fire emblem characters in smash. So i don't honestly know which type of characters are possible.

But then Lycanroc really only has two big competition from first party's

King Boo- who has seniroity and Luigi's Mansion 3 is comming out during DLC window, and because he is first party he will have higher priority


And Bandana Dee
I can sort of agree with Bandana dee, but i heavily doubt King Boo's chances. There's so many other characters i would've picked before King Boo, such as: Dixie Kong, Impa, Elma, Bandana Waddle Dee, etc. I don't really know how many people would want King Boo + i don't see having another mario character that's not very talked about when they could pick Geno or even Paper Mario.
 
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Corrin was already known in Japan and even if i don't like him personally, he does have a unique and different look than most of the fire emblem characters in smash.
Looking unique might have been for the worse, Corrin is the worst looking fire emblem character on the roster (especially when you know of at least 20 characters from the original fates that look way freakin cooler and are unique to boot) and honestly isn’t to different control wise from the others. I’d actually say Robin and Ike are the most unique fire emblem characters we we have on that roster, and they look a lot more solid for main characters.
I can sort of agree with Bandana dee, but i heavily doubt King Boo's chances. There's so many other characters i would've picked before King Boo, such as: Dixie Kong, Impa, Elma, Bandana Waddle Dee, etc. I don't really know how many people would want King Boo + i don't see having another mario character that's not very talked about when they could pick Geno or even Paper Mario.
Did you expect Piranha Plant to happen though? Seriously, the number one thought to have when speculating dlc for smash: expect the unexpected. King Boo may not be the most popular, but he’s got a lot more going for him than most, due to Luigi’s Mansion 3 being slated for next year and the unique possibilities to work with (he would be the only ghost on the roster). Also he could bring in more casual audiences whereas no one outside of hardcore fans even knows who Geno is, which is just a hard fact; that puppet is not even close to well known outside the smash community, and I doubt that will change anytime soon. Meanwhile Paper Mario is only going downhill from here and a lot of people don’t exactly like how the series was treated during sticker star and color splash. That’s why King Boo is the most likely Mario newcomer (Besides, he’d be a lot cooler to me than the other two anyway, because I’d imagine he’d play like a Gengar, and that’s a pretty solid pokemon).
 
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GlaceonGD

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Personally I'm starting to feel that lycanroc may not have highest priority in terms of pokemon, especially considering how nintendo has chosen the characters apparently. I know he's been technically deconfirmed but I can see nintendo pushing eevee even more due to the games coming out next week I believe and because of how popular it is. Don't get me wrong I am still 100% supporting lycanroc here but in the off chance that nintendo didn't pick him and went with the aforementioned mon you will not see me complaining one bit. Piranha plant is in, any arguments about moveset potential are basically out the door now, and that's why I believe there's a chance we could see this happening. Either way I'll be happy as they're both personal favorites of mine, and honestly it could go either way or we could just not be getting another pokemon at all. It's not over till it's over so until we know for certain lycanroc has no chance, let's keep on pushing.
 
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Nintendo nows we all would ript if a another gen 1 Pokemon was addedd. I think that Bandana Dee will be highest priority for first party's because of the recent Star Allies announcement
King Boo is also up their with Lycanroc because he has a game in the form of Luigi's Mansion 3. Also he would be from Luigi's Mansion, not Mario. And as Nintendo expands horrorr game inclusion in Smash then, why not pick the first Nintendo Horror game
Lycanroc falls at 3 because of his recency and the fact he has all this merch, he is the highest priority Pokemon.
Then Minecraft Steve is highest priority third party Newcomer for all reasons listed in the Wild Roster and is more relevant than Banjo-Kazzoie is nowdays. Waluigi could be chosen because Nintendo sees how much people want him but, isn't priority enough. Lycanroc has to challenge for a spot, 15 other Newcomers : King Boo, Bandana Dee, Isaac, , Minecraft Steve, Katalina, Paper Mario, Banjo-Kazzoie, Eevee, Crash Bandicoot, Rayman, Doomguy, Sora, Slime from DQ3, a new Pikmin Character to comicede with Pikmin 4 and Mach Rider, also in contention are Waluigi and Tetra, but, there not as proirity
 
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Then Minecraft Steve is highest priority third party Newcomer for all reasons listed in the Wild Roster and is more relevant than Banjo-Kazzoie is nowdays.
If that abomination got into smash then I’m pretty sure the internet would malfunction with how much widespread hate he gets. No one has ever said “hey, Minecraft Steve should be in smash” and I doubt Sakurai would even bother trying to put that thing in as to not piss everyone off. Nintendo might be choosing, but I doubt they’d do something that underhanded and cruel, it’s a waste of one of the very limited dlc spots. Also what world do you live in where Doomguy and Sora have a chance? And since Waluigi is already out, there’s no reason to go back on the assist.
 
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Delzethin

Character Concept Creator
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Delzethin
To upend the script and gain more of a following, we need to figure out how to win people over, how to convince them to join our cause.

Perhaps the best way to start is to have an idea of what has worked in the past. To that end, here's a question: What was it that convinced each of you here that Lycanroc was worth supporting? The more specific you can be, the better, as it'd help paint a clearer picture of what to focus on.
 

LukeRNG

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LukeBraginsky
To upend the script and gain more of a following, we need to figure out how to win people over, how to convince them to join our cause.

Perhaps the best way to start is to have an idea of what has worked in the past. To that end, here's a question: What was it that convinced each of you here that Lycanroc was worth supporting? The more specific you can be, the better, as it'd help paint a clearer picture of what to focus on.
For it's 3 things:
1-. It's a new pokemon with the most potential for a unique pokemon character and smash in general, since we don't have many characters that fill in what Lycanroc can do.
2-. It's popularity, it's heavy promotion from Gamefreak with merchandise and game promotion & relevance in the Anime being the main pokemon of Ash.
3-. It's among my favorite Pokemon for it's design + personality.
 
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Lycanroc is a prominent generation 7 Pokemon, his inclusion makes sense. Lycanroc has 3 obstacles in his way

#1 Generation 8 is on the way and for DLC Nintendo is probably going to be leaving Lycanroc out in the cold if he isn't one of the first picks.

#2 he doesn't have the promince of Starters or Eevee, Bandana Dee would easily be chosen over him, or even King Boo could be higher priority because of Eevee and King Boo's Seniority

3 Microsoft
You know why
 
Joined
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To upend the script and gain more of a following, we need to figure out how to win people over, how to convince them to join our cause.

Perhaps the best way to start is to have an idea of what has worked in the past. To that end, here's a question: What was it that convinced each of you here that Lycanroc was worth supporting? The more specific you can be, the better, as it'd help paint a clearer picture of what to focus on.
Lycanroc is worth supporting because he has many qualities exsisting fighters don't, Lycanroc is a quadraped, he has earth based powers, he would have a angled hitbox. In Smash Bros, uniqueness is key, this is how Phrihana Plant, Wii Fit Trainer and Duck Hunt Dog become fighters, because they have potential. Lycanroc already has an incredibly diverse moveset, a quadrapedal build and rage fueled state, he is the perfect inclusion, There is no possible way Sakurai would miss an opportunity like this.

Edit 1 : I love playing as Wii Fit. And second im also an anime fan
 
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GlaceonGD

Smash Cadet
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Messages
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Ayar Region
To upend the script and gain more of a following, we need to figure out how to win people over, how to convince them to join our cause.

Perhaps the best way to start is to have an idea of what has worked in the past. To that end, here's a question: What was it that convinced each of you here that Lycanroc was worth supporting? The more specific you can be, the better, as it'd help paint a clearer picture of what to focus on.
I chose to support for a few main reasons, being that:
A- lycanroc is my third favorite evolution line and currently my top 2 are stuck as pokeball summons (eevee and vulpix, though I know vulpix likely will never be playable due to having such little prominence over other choices for a pokemon rep)
B- we have no rock types on the roster, and I don't like duplicating types and forms (both charizard and incineroar are final evolution fire starters for example, and pichu is just smaller pikachu that damages itself)
C- at the time I just wanted anything that wasn't incineroar, though I have now come to terms with his inclusion and feel he could prove to be a decent addition to the roster
and D- all of my most wanted characters (and the ones people I knew wanted that I was hoping for) had been and are still deconfirmed, lycanroc was all I had left to support (Eevee [most wanted of all time due to being my favorite evolutionary line], Shovel Knight [I liked his character concept], Rex and Pyra [had decided to watch a XC2 playthrough and thought the character would be interesting], Isaac [friend wanted], Geno [friend wanted], Funky Kong [mostly for the joke honestly])

Yeah, those are pretty much my reasons, even though most of them kinda suck and are petty reasons to support. Regardless, as I've stated before, I'm with the rock wolf all the way. (though I would really appreciate if people stopped using the argument that eevee doesn't have moveset potential but then go on to saying literally anything else is possible because "with piranha plant in anything is possible")
 
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