Day, Night, and Dusk - Lycanroc for Smash Bros. Ultimate

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What was it that convinced each of you here that Lycanroc was worth supporting?
Here we go:
1. All three Lycanrocs are some of my favorite gen 7 designs (aside from alolan Marowak and Sandslash, they also had solid designs).
2. Would be the first earth-user on the roster, and is plenty unique in other ways as well.
3. With the amount of promotion it gets, I was surprised it wasn’t in the base roster, and I’m even more shocked that it isn’t the first thing people associate with the current gen.
4. I know my favorite type has and will always be electric, but I do like rock types, and kind of feel that they always get the short end of the stick, after all, not one has appeared in pokken, and they didn’t exactly come across as hard to beat in the games, being weak to 5 different types and having a relatively low average special defense (which is a weakness that a lot of people will take advantage of). I really want Lycanroc to be the rock type to finally change all this neglection.
 

Questionmark222

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To upend the script and gain more of a following, we need to figure out how to win people over, how to convince them to join our cause.

Perhaps the best way to start is to have an idea of what has worked in the past. To that end, here's a question: What was it that convinced each of you here that Lycanroc was worth supporting? The more specific you can be, the better, as it'd help paint a clearer picture of what to focus on.
1. The uniqueness of his potential fighter archetype. A quadruped earthbender isn't something you often see around the corner.
2. He's one of my favorite Gen 7 Pokemon.
3. Bonus points for being a Rock-type, something the Pokémon roster doesn't have yet.
4. Stealth Rock. IN. SMASH.
At least, I'm pretty satisfied with how :ultincineroar:turned out, despite my initial fears. Sure, I would've preferred Lycanroc (although nothing prevents the two from coexisting, don't quote me on that), but 'Roar's playstyle is pretty appealing to me and I'll definitely experiment with him. But that's not to say I'm giving up hope on our favorite stone wolf just yet, because I most definitely support him with y'all until the end.
 

LukeRNG

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Lycanroc is a prominent generation 7 Pokemon, his inclusion makes sense. Lycanroc has 3 obstacles in his way

#1 Generation 8 is on the way and for DLC Nintendo is probably going to be leaving Lycanroc out in the cold if he isn't one of the first picks.

#2 he doesn't have the promince of Starters or Eevee, Bandana Dee would easily be chosen over him, or even King Boo could be higher priority because of Eevee and King Boo's Seniority

3 Microsoft
You know why
I can see where your coming from, but i can't shake the feeling that your giving King Boo too much credit. King Boo is far from left field compared to Piranha Plant + Sakurai chose from a list given by nintendo and i highly doubt that list was tiny enough for sakurai to pick King Boo over other characters.
King Boo would be an interesting charater, but i just can't see it as it is right now.

And i'd also argue Lycanroc's Prominence, because of how much it was promoted during the sun and moon and even ultra sun and moon days + it's currently ash's main pokemon. And if i remember correctly Dusk Lycanroc was the 5th most popular gen 7 pokemon in a popularity poll in japan in 2017, just behind Alolan Vulpix, Primarina, Mimikyu and Rowlet. Incineroar was barely out of the top 10 placing at 12th place. Lycanroc is only under Rowlet and Primarina, so i don't really see why it isn't prominent. Maybe it's outdated, but it still stands Gamefreak pushed Lycanroc a lot.
 
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I can see where your coming from, but i can't shake the feeling that your giving King Boo too much credit. King Boo is far from left field compared to Piranha Plant + Sakurai chose from a list given by nintendo and i highly doubt that list was tiny enough for sakurai to pick King Boo over other characters.
King Boo would be an interesting charater, but i just can't see it as it is right now.
Id argue that Sakurai would be pick King Boo for different.
1. Nintendo and Sakurai are fine with incorporating more of the horror elements, so why not add the OG?

2. Sakurai would pick King Boo becuase of his unique playstyle of fighting like a ghost.

But, If we want to talk King Boo, let's go to his support thread
 

MasteRMerF

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This has me hopeful and nervous at the same time. With Nintendo doing the DLC, a newcomer pokemon, a character from one of their biggest and most popular series feels like a given, right? Some points that have already been made here, but do you guys think Nintendo will want to add another gen 7 pokemon when we already have incineroar? It's true we have 6 gen 1 pokemon already. I hate that I'm thinking like this, but I feel like there's a very real possibility that they, or Sakurai, are content with the 8 (or 10 if you separate Pokemon Trainer) pokemon we already have and won't want to add anymore. Lycanroc is my favorite Gen 7 and tied for my 2nd all time favorite pokemon of all and, like everyone here, would love to see it make it into Smash and not get left behind like or overlooked :(
In more positive thinking, Lycanroc's popularity is definitely something that Nintendo would be keeping their eyes on, especially with it's new Dusk from in USun/UMoon and it's role in the anime. The fact we haven't gotten a new pokemon stage is also interesting, as we've gotten at least 1 in every game previous. Geez, my thoughts are all over the place :facepalm: what do you guys think?
 

LukeRNG

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Id argue that Sakurai would be pick King Boo for different.
1. Nintendo and Sakurai are fine with incorporating more of the horror elements, so why not add the OG?

2. Sakurai would pick King Boo becuase of his unique playstyle of fighting like a ghost.

But, If we want to talk King Boo, let's go to his support thread
I don't really have much to say about him, it's just my stuborn mindset that can't picture unusual or outlandish charactrs in smash until they happen.

But back on topic, when do you think the first dlc will be announced? i'd say around the time they give us a release date for piranha plant in February, maybe within the first nintendo direct of 2019 if they end up skipping January. If not, then i don't know what place they would announce it.
 

Delzethin

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So it seems like the two big recurring themes are either being a fan of Lycanroc beforehand, or being intrigued by the idea of a playable earthbender. Duly noted.

Meanwhile, it seems the anime has revealed its next few episodes again:
A Japanese magazine has revealed new episode titles for upcoming episodes of the anime. These episodes are due to air on November 18th, 25th, December 2nd and December 9th respectively
Episode 1040: Dartrix the Master!!! Rowlet the Sleeperzzz
Episode 1041: The Duo Splits Up!? Ash & Rotom
Episode 1042: Where is Eevee Going? To the End of the World for the Sake of a Meeting!
Episode 1043: The Lightning that Blocks Wind! Its name is Zeraora
There's also been word that the Zeraora episode is the first half of a two part arc, with the conclusion happening on December 16th.

Needless to say, seems like--barring some supremely suspect writing--the ace role will be ours the whole rest of the way. It's a foothold, at least.
 
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Tuoko

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To upend the script and gain more of a following, we need to figure out how to win people over, how to convince them to join our cause.

Perhaps the best way to start is to have an idea of what has worked in the past. To that end, here's a question: What was it that convinced each of you here that Lycanroc was worth supporting? The more specific you can be, the better, as it'd help paint a clearer picture of what to focus on.
1. They're my favorite Gen 7 designs, and some of my all-time favorite Pokemon.
2. They'd bring more quadruped characters to Smash (Midday/Dusk), which has only two currently.
3. They'd bring in a new typing that doesn't match with any other existing Pokemon in Smash (Rock).
4. All the promotion they've been given in the anime and TCG. Heck, there even was a manga featuring Rockruff before SM even came out.
 

Garteam

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Here's something to talk about: What stage and music do you want Lycanroc to come with?

Stage: Iki Town
Music: Guzma's theme, Ultra Recon Squad Battle Theme, Rocket Boss Giovanni Theme, and two songs from Let's Go Pikachu/Eevee to round things out to 5.
 

LukeRNG

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Here's something to talk about: What stage and music do you want Lycanroc to come with?

Stage: Iki Town
Music: Guzma's theme, Ultra Recon Squad Battle Theme, Rocket Boss Giovanni Theme, and two songs from Let's Go Pikachu/Eevee to round things out to 5.
Speaking of music, i've seen at least 5 songs from sun and moon, 4 of which have confirmed remixes (Wild Battle, Trainer Battle, Kahuna Battle & Title Defense Battle). What if they include most of the popular music from sun and moon + ultra sun and moon? Would you say that's an issue to make music for a stage?

As for what i would want:
Either Altar of the Sunne/Moone or Aether Paradise and having them connect to ultra space, going to ultra megalopolis.
Music: Showdown-Lusamine, Battle-Ultra Necrozma, Main Theme-Ultra Sun/Moon, Battle-Giovanni, Battle Legends-Red/Blue, Ultra Beast Battle and Totem Battle.
 
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I’d say the stage that most fits Lycanroc is vast poni canyon, due to that being pretty much the only place you can outright catch it. Also, rocks. (Though alter of the sunne would be cool)
As for music: the Gladion rival theme, vs red & blue (battle tree), Tapu battle theme, lake of the sunne/moon, vast poni canyon, champion title defense, and vs Necrozma.
 
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Garteam

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Speaking of music, i've seen at least 5 songs from sun and moon, 4 of which have confirmed remixes (Wild Battle, Trainer Battle, Kahuna Battle & Title Defense Battle). What if they include most of the popular music from sun and moon + ultra sun and moon? Would you say that's an issue to make music for a stage?

As for what i would want:
Either Altar of the Sunne/Moone or Aether Paradise and having them connect to ultra space, going to ultra megalopolis.
Music: Showdown-Lusamine, Battle-Ultra Necrozma, Main Theme-Ultra Sun/Moon, Battle-Giovanni, Battle Legends-Red/Blue, Ultra Beast Battle and Totem Battle.
So far we've only seen music from Sun/Moon, so Lycanroc could bring music for Ultra Sun/Moon and Let's Go Pikachu/Eevee, similar to how the Rex costume is bringing music from Xenoblade Chronicles 2. That's why I tried to focus on non-Sun/Moon music with the exception of Guzma's theme (which would be criminal to not have).

Also, we need to have Gladion's theme. Even if they just stuck to Sun/Moon, it has such a strong OST I wouldn't mind.
 

LukeRNG

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So far we've only seen music from Sun/Moon, so Lycanroc could bring music for Ultra Sun/Moon and Let's Go Pikachu/Eevee, similar to how the Rex costume is bringing music from Xenoblade Chronicles 2. That's why I tried to focus on non-Sun/Moon music with the exception of Guzma's theme (which would be criminal to not have).

Also, we need to have Gladion's theme. Even if they just stuck to Sun/Moon, it has such a strong OST I wouldn't mind.
Which one, the battle theme or encounter theme? Because the official site has Battle Gladion listed on How to play/Music section with an animation in the background listing some songs in the game, but it doesn't say if it's a remix or the original.

Speaking of Gladion, given his popularity & his partner being Silvally, i'm surprised we didn't get a Silvally pokeball assist, cause i think the pokeball pokemon listed on the official site are all of them. Heck, we didn't even get a single ultra beast and most of them are from Sun/Moon. And now that i think about it, what about totem pokemon?
 
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Delzethin

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Here's something to talk about: What stage and music do you want Lycanroc to come with?

Stage: Iki Town
Music: Guzma's theme, Ultra Recon Squad Battle Theme, Rocket Boss Giovanni Theme, and two songs from Let's Go Pikachu/Eevee to round things out to 5.
There're quite a few stages that'd work, especially since we don't have one in the base game.

...Sorry, just thinking about it feels weird.

Anyway, the ideal stage would depend on what kind of role you wanted to fulfill. Something simple like Iki Town (though if you did that then hello walkoffs), something plot-relevant like Aether Paradise or Ultra Space, climactic like Mt. Lanakila (or an "Alolan Pokémon League" stage that cycles between four types), or something with direct ties to Lycanroc like Ten Carat Hill or Vast Pony Canyon. Many different options to work with, and the whole "must be the first level" thing doesn't need apply since it didn't with New Donk City Hall or Moray Towers.

As for music...well, I can't really answer that until we know the full extent of the base game's soundtrack. Ideally, we'd want the new music to plug in gaps that haven't been covered yet, likely including stuff from Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon.
 
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Could I have a thorough explanation as to why Lycanroc still has a decent chance getting in as DLC?

I am kinda confused at the moment, and I have zero expectations for a second 7th Generation Pokemon currently.
For me it depends on when DLC was decided. If it was super early, USUM would've still been relevant enough for Nintendo to say "yeah we wanna promote that stuffs"
 

Cosmic77

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Could I have a thorough explanation as to why Lycanroc still has a decent chance getting in as DLC?

I am kinda confused at the moment, and I have zero expectations for a second 7th Generation Pokemon currently.
It's not as likely to happen as base game, but there's a few reasons why it's not completely out of the question to get a second Gen VII rep. Some are specific for Lycanroc, others aren't.

(1) If Nintendo didn't suggest Spring Man and Rex as DLC, it's possible Gen VIII and Three Houses weren't mentioned either.
(2) No Su/Mo stage. Possible Gen VII newcomer with its own stage?
(3) Lycanroc is still a very relevant Pokemon in the anime.
(4) Pokemon appeal to a wider audience, making them an ideal choice for DLC.
(5) Lycanroc is arguably one of the most promoted Gen VII Pokemon.

A lot of these points were inspired by wishful thinking and strawgrasping, but I feel like they're valid arguments regardless.
 
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Delzethin

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Could I have a thorough explanation as to why Lycanroc still has a decent chance getting in as DLC?

I am kinda confused at the moment, and I have zero expectations for a second 7th Generation Pokemon currently.
Well, all of our strengths aside from the "where's the new Pokémon, we always get one" thing still apply. Being one of the faces of Gen 7 and a star player in the anime means Lycanroc would command some kind of attention. We still have the earthbender niche wide open, and with Isaac relegated to Assist Trophy again, we're the only option for a character with earth powers, meaning if they pass us up now they might not get another chance to explore that niche and what it is capable of.

And that is true twice over with Lycanroc in particular, since we have additional niches we can pull from. Depending on the form (or multiple forms) used, there's also the potential for a full on feral quadruped, a pseudo-transforming concept that alters its stats and hitboxes while keeping the same general attacks intact, and the like. Either are exceedingly rare as concepts, and have never been seen in Smash before.

What chances we have are built on the fact that we offer multiple unique thematic ideas. Even one could make for a type of moveset that we've never seen in Smash before, but combined, we offer something no other character at all can come close to. The question is whether it'd be enough to convince the Smash team to prioritize Lycanroc and be okay with double dipping from the same franchise...and, well, they've done the latter before repeatedly.

And while Gen 7 will be passing the torch in a year's time, odds are they wouldn't jump the gun and add a Gen 8 newcomer early. While popular talk assumes it must be true because it feels that way at first glance, truth is they've never deliberately chosen to "promote" a character before their game's release. Only happened to Roy due to his game being delayed late in its development, and Corrin actually wasn't an example, added to Smash over half a year after Fates' Japanese debut.

I wouldn't call us a frontrunner, but if things align the right way, we have some semblance of a chance. If another new 'mon gets in through this wave of DLC, it's likely us unless something strange happens.
 
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Ridrool64

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I'd bet that Incineroar was included as early as 2016, or even 2015, way before Sun and Moon released, and Sakurai simply assumed that it'd be Greninja 2. By the time it turned out that Lycanroc was meant to be the main mon of the Generation as a spiritual Lucario 2, and that Incineroar wasn't as popular as he'd guessed, it was far too late to do anything about it, having already spent massive man-hours on the burning heel. You can tell Incineroar took over a year to develop and get the fur right, maybe even two.

Then again, for some varied reasons I did not follow Gen 7's Anime, nor did I purchase the games. So whether Lycanroc or Incineroar was the next Greninja of the generation is not to my best knowledge.

What I want to know is, how did Verge know that Decidueye and Lycanroc weren't playable before knowing for sure that Incineroar is in? Neither of them are Pokeball summons, nor are Rowlet and Rockruff. There's no Alola stage, which is absolutely ridiculous as it gives Incineroar nowhere to call home, so I would honestly believe that, should your statements be true, Lycanroc is probably the likeliest Pokémon by far for DLC, and the best pick. (Not that the others are bad, but after the death of Isaac, an earth-elemental would be very nicely appreciated).
 
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I wouldn't call us a frontrunner, but if things align the right way, we have some semblance of a chance. If another new 'mon gets in through this wave of DLC, it's likely us unless something strange happens.
Things have aligned. Heard of Decetive Pikachu? A live action, feature length film featuring Pokemon, releasing in 2019, May 10th, in DLC Window, coupled with the fact a Gen 7 mon was in the trailer, then Lycanroc would appear and he would be relevant during that time. Seems like we would get a new fighter to tie into the Movie's release......or Decetive Pikachu could come to Pokken but...... I think a Smash Newcomer is more likely
 
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Am i the only one that feels weird that none of the other starters or any of the other popular pokemon like Silvally, Rockruff, Lycanroc & Ultra Beasts appear at all within the game?
Like other than Incineroar being playable, i've only seen a spirit of Rowlet and nothing more. I wonder why so there's many absent pokemon.
There's only 11 new pokemon summons from sun & moon counting 3 alolan forms.

And i have to say i'm really curious hearing about the inclusion of Incineroar from Sakurai. Not because of hate but because i want to see what we might've missed. Maybe it's obvious, but i want to know from the man himself.
 
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BluePikmin11

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This is an incomplete, rushed translation of the latest Famitsu column from Sakurai. There's only snippets for now, and it seems like NE only shared highlight comments on certain topics, one quick translation on Incineroar:

https://nintendoeverything.com/saku...eroar-amiibo-creation-removing-trophies-more/

“I wanted to try making a pro-wrestler character at least once! Mr. Unshō Ishizuka did some new recordings for Incineroar for this game; may he rest in peace.”

As I suspected after the full confirmation of Verge's three sources (during the base game Ultimate speculation period, I should have kept open the possibility that Sakurai might have found the pro-wrestler archetype a unique character that he would want to implement.
 
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Additionally, according to Source Gaming's twitter, they wanted a character to represent a new game.

However, it is worth noting that the game Incineroar is representing is Ultra Sun/Moon, but that doesn't really make a ton of sense (seeing how the project plan was submitted in late 2015, before we even knew Sun/Moon were a thing). Could Incineroar been decided on late in development? Possibly after Ultra Sun/Moon were announced? But then that brings up some new questions: Did Sakurai really change the way he's been developing games since Kirby Super Star by not playing close to the project plan? If the Sun/Moon Pokemon was decided after Gen 7 was public, then why didn't he choose a Pokemon that was more popular? Did the anime have any sort of effect on character selection, or was that really not taken into account?

This whole thing is opening up more questions than it answers. I'm now really curious about this column.
 
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“I wanted to try making a pro-wrestler character at least once! Mr. Unshō Ishizuka did some new recordings for Incineroar for this game; may he rest in peace.”
That probably would’ve worked better had we not had Bowser, K. Rool, and Ridley doing pretty much every type of wrestling move we actually needed. (And those aren’t even the only ones who had some semblance of wrestling in their moveset)
 
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Delzethin

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Figures, doesn't it? After all the talk, all the debating over who would be the most unique choice, it seems like Sakurai wanted to add a full on wrestler character so badly that he found a way to cram one in despite all else. Despite how many times I've had to refute claims of "Sakurai bias" in the past...we seem to legitimately have an example here. No wonder Incineroar feels so much like a derivative moveset carried by personality.

And this outlier came directly at our expense...because of course it did. The exception to the rule, and it kneecapped us in particular. Always seems to happen to me no matter where I go...

Well...we got our work cut out for us now. We still have uniqueness in our favor, especially with the only other notable earthbender in Nintendo's repertoire stuck behind the 8 ball, so to speak. But will being the only caveat-less option for an earthbender and feral quadruped be enough for us to be given an actual fair chance? And will anyone else even bother to listen to what we have to say?

All questions in need of answers.
 
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Well...we got our work cut out for us now. We still have uniqueness in our favor, especially with the other notable earthbender in Nintendo's repertoire being behind the 8 ball, so to speak. But will it be enough to be given an actual fair chance? And will anyone else even bother to listen to what we have to say?
Well as a speculator who did my research I think that uniqueness is not the only thing going for us. Lets Walk through the evidence

- No Alola stage in base game along with no Rowlett and Rockruff

- A Live Action Feature Length Film featuring Alola Pokemon is comming out in DLC release window

- Pokemon will be hype through our the year because of Gen 8 so releasing a Pokemon as DLC Would be good business practice

- The Star of the anime and has more merch than the starters

Seems like a front-runner as he is the face of Gen 7
 
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Figures, doesn't it? After all the talk, all the debating over who would be the most unique choice, it seems like Sakurai wanted to add a full on wrestler character so badly that he found a way to cram one in despite all else. Despite how many times I've had to refute claims of "Sakurai bias" in the past...we seem to legitimately have an example here. No wonder Incineroar feels so much like a derivative moveset carried by personality.

And this outlier came directly at our expense...because of course it did. The exception to the rule, and it kneecapped us in particular. Always seems to happen to me no matter where I go...

Well...we got our work cut out for us now. We still have uniqueness in our favor, especially with the only other notable earthbender in Nintendo's repertoire stuck behind the 8 ball, so to speak. But will being the only caveat-less option for an earthbender and feral quadruped be enough for us to be given an actual fair chance? And will anyone else even bother to listen to what we have to say?

All questions in need of answers.
What the actual heck? I think this has gotten a bit too personal for you. Take a step back and calm down. “Sakurai bias?” Really? If you think about it, every character is bias, since he’s the director. If your favorite character didn’t get in, it’s okay to feel disappointed, but please don’t throw a fit over it.
 
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Figures, doesn't it? After all the talk, all the debating over who would be the most unique choice, it seems like Sakurai wanted to add a full on wrestler character so badly that he found a way to cram one in despite all else. Despite how many times I've had to refute claims of "Sakurai bias" in the past...we seem to legitimately have an example here. No wonder Incineroar feels so much like a derivative moveset carried by personality.

And this outlier came directly at our expense...because of course it did. The exception to the rule, and it kneecapped us in particular. Always seems to happen to me no matter where I go...

Well...we got our work cut out for us now. We still have uniqueness in our favor, especially with the only other notable earthbender in Nintendo's repertoire stuck behind the 8 ball, so to speak. But will being the only caveat-less option for an earthbender and feral quadruped be enough for us to be given an actual fair chance? And will anyone else even bother to listen to what we have to say?

All questions in need of answers.
1. Daily reminder this isn't your life falling apart. Sakurai picking Incineroar is not something to be taken as personal insult to you specifically. We all agree Incineroar wasn't the best pick, but I'm worried you're taking this too far especially with parts like "this always happens to me" and "will they even listen" which to be fair it will be hard battle but this thread has gone in the face of the biggest leak without becoming the laughing stock like you feared. Saying "ok but what if we get two pokémon" is far less of a stretch than the "what if this leak with a perfect Smash-related track record is false just because it says tiger is in?" and is moreso your average wishful thinking rather than entering conspiracy territory.

2. I'm still waiting for the final wording to pull conclusions for Incineroar. For all we know the actual thing says something closer to "I picked Incineroar and was excited after that to try a pro wrestler" instead of the now presumed "I've dreamed since childhood of making a pro wrestler character"
 
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Figures, doesn't it? After all the talk, all the debating over who would be the most unique choice, it seems like Sakurai wanted to add a full on wrestler character so badly that he found a way to cram one in despite all else. Despite how many times I've had to refute claims of "Sakurai bias" in the past...we seem to legitimately have an example here. No wonder Incineroar feels so much like a derivative moveset carried by personality.

And this outlier came directly at our expense...because of course it did. The exception to the rule, and it kneecapped us in particular. Always seems to happen to me no matter where I go...

Well...we got our work cut out for us now. We still have uniqueness in our favor, especially with the only other notable earthbender in Nintendo's repertoire stuck behind the 8 ball, so to speak. But will being the only caveat-less option for an earthbender and feral quadruped be enough for us to be given an actual fair chance? And will anyone else even bother to listen to what we have to say?

All questions in need of answers.
No offense, but I kind of cringed from reading that post. You should heed the advice of the two posters above me.
 
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What the actual heck? I think this has gotten a bit too personal for you. Take a step back and calm down. “Sakurai bias?” Really? If you think about it, every character is bias, since he’s the director. If your favorite character didn’t get in, it’s okay to feel disappointed, but please don’t throw a fit over it.
Well said, every one should be greatful for what we get, I think of a roster of 74, it's okay that we have a character that Sakurai wants to develop
 
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kirbsmash

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Hi, an huge Incineroar fan here, but I still wanna see this guy as playable as well but reading that post, it seems that you're taking this loss a little too personal. Smash isn't this 'famous game that cut some losses that you wanted, and now ruined'. It's just a game that we'll still play for fun. Who knows, Lycanroc (in any form) can be still playable as DLC hopefully. I want to see what it could does with its moves.

Take a small break if you need to. It's just a game, after all. It's fine being mad about not seeing that character as playable. (Hoping for Banjo myself) but just be calm about it helps.
(Sorry if this seems a bit too long or messy )
 
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I've said it before, but I've been using the anime as my gauge for how likely a Pokemon would be for Smash. If Lycanroc didn't get in, Incineroar would be my next guess.

Despite what was said in the column, I don't think we should take what he said at base value. I highly doubt the biggest factor that lead to Incineroar's inclusion was Sakurai telling himself, "Wrestlers are cool. Let's add one in Smash." Clearly Incineroar has gotten more attention than the other two starters, and because starters are arguably the safest choices for a new Pokemon, maybe Sakurai just felt more comfortable with Incineroar in 2016 than he did with Pokemon who weren't guaranteed to be remembered to the same extent.

I won't lie. In terms of moveset, Incineroar feels incredibly underwhelming compared to Decidueye, Mimikyu, and Lycanroc. Still, never let it be said that Incineroar doesn't make sense to me. Even if I think he's a bit generic, he's exactly what I'd expect to see in a Smash game. Lycanroc is more of an oddball choice, moreso than I think we're willing to admit, and even with his anime promotion, trying to create a moveset for Lycanroc is unquestionably more difficult.

I don't know how things will move forward. Will Incineroar stand the test of time and become an understandable addition like Greninja? Will Lycanroc be fortunate enough to get in as one of those five coveted DLC spots? Leaning toward a pessimistic "No" on both questions. Regardless, I'm supporting Lycanroc until the end. I liked him before November 1st, and I liked him after November 1st. That opinion isn't gonna change anytime soon.
 
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kirbsmash

Smash Journeyman
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I've said it before, but I've been using the anime as my gauge for how likely a Pokemon would be for Smash. If Lycanroc didn't get in, Incineroar would be my next guess.

Despite what was said in the column, I don't think we should take what he said at base value. I highly doubt the biggest factor that lead to Incineroar's inclusion was Sakurai telling himself, "Wrestlers are cool. Let's add one in Smash." Clearly Incineroar has gotten more attention than the other two starters, and because starters are arguably the safest choices for a new Pokemon, maybe Sakurai just felt more comfortable with Incineroar in 2016 than he did with Pokemon who weren't guaranteed to be remembered to the same extent.

I won't lie. In terms of moveset, Incineroar feels incredibly underwhelming compared to Decidueye, Mimikyu, and Lycanroc. Still, never let it be said that Incineroar doesn't make sense to me. Even if I think he's a bit generic, he's exactly what I'd expect to see in a Smash game. Lycanroc is more of an oddball choice, moreso than I think we're willing to admit, and even with his anime promotion, trying to create a moveset for Lycanroc is unquestionably more difficult.

I don't know how things will move forward. Will Incineroar stand the test of time and become an understandable addition like Greninja? Will Lycanroc be fortunate enough to get in as one of those five coveted DLC spots? Leaning toward a pessimistic "No" on both questions. Regardless, I'm supporting Lycanroc until the end. I liked him before November 1st, and I liked him after November 1st. That opinion isn't gonna change anytime soon.
thanks for explaining things better than i could,
 

Delzethin

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I took things too far again, didn't I?

Apologies to anyone I set off. It's been a rough week for me due to reasons completely unrelated to Smash, and I suppose some of that seeped through. I'm still getting a hang of trying not to jump to worst case scenarios, as you see. Still got a long way before I can measure up, and the best I can really do is hope these mistakes don't come back to haunt me the way others have in the past.


How about we shift topics to something that won't lead to me sticking my foot in my mouth? What are everyone's thoughts on the Detective Pikachu trailer?
 
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