Day, Night, and Dusk - Lycanroc for Smash Bros. Ultimate

[SmashNStache]

Gentlemen...I am sorry I dragged you all into this.

I'd hoped that I'd found someone worth rallying around.

Instead, all I've done is lead you into a massive joke at our expense.

...All we are to them...just a joke...

From the Incineroar thread here. You don't have to apologize for anything. You and Lycanroc's other supporters backed up a strong, great contender. You guys stuck to your guns and supported Lycanroc to the end. And even then, it's not the end for him as he's still got a chance as a DLC character!

Never give up. You and everyone here are definitely not jokes.

 

[MasteRMerF]

I now some of us aren't happy with the final roster, but dlc can do us a favor.

Also, am i the only one that cried when i saw world of light?

I can't even lie. When the lyrics kicked in, I got real emotional. It gives the song, as well as the game itself, a new meaning, I feel.

 

[DeltaSceptile]

Well guys... it’s been one heck of a ride. I’m not giving up on dlc, but the doubtful (and depressed after seeing so all ballot front runners that aren’t banjo and Geno get knocked out) side of me thinks it won’t happen. I just wish that smash games did something I want just once. ‘Ultimate’ is a pretty hefty term, unless we are getting info on stadium modes post launch. But if those modes just don’t exist in general, I will be a very sad man. The teaser of ‘and even more modes!’ On the official game mode page really makes me think...

 

[Talos_3rd]

Oh boy
Glad to see there is DLC as there still will be a chance.
Fingers crossed and hopefully the dog is able to make it in.

 

[LukeRNG]

So here's where we stand:
Isaac, Shadow, Springman, Rex, Shovel Knight and Bomberman are out of the picture for dlc.
There's 5 more characters as dlc going all the way up till february 2020. If we have a chance to get another pokemon newcomer (Either Decidueye, Lycanroc or even Sceptile), it'll have to be among the first 3 dlc characters or gen 8 will take over for the last few dlc spots. We don't know if most of the dlc will be first party character or third party characters.

Looks like we have ourselves a little over a year left if lycanroc has no presence in spirits mode or pokeballs.

 

[MasteRMerF]

As far as pokeballs go, I think we're safe. If you look on the Pokemon Items page on the official site, it says "See all Pokemon" and Lycanroc isn't on it. Interestingly, though, Tapu Koko is listed and I don't believe it's been announced prior to today. So unless more Pokeballs are added down the road (which I think is highly unlikely, but hey, you never know), I'd say Lycanroc still has a great chance.

 

[Questionmark222]

Gentlemen...I am sorry I dragged you all into this.

I'd hoped that I'd found someone worth rallying around.

Instead, all I've done is lead you into a massive joke at our expense.

...All we are to them...just a joke...

Nope, you led us into probably the best character community ever. I mean, Lycanroc wasn't as high up there as Rayman, K. Rool and Skull Kid amongst my most wanted, he was definitely the next in line, but that support group... While a drop in comparison to the ocean of support towards the likes of Isaac, Shantae and Dee (among others), all of you guys that joined in were so passionate about our favorite stone wolf. As for you, Del, you were the one that made all of us open our eyes to a fighter with amazing and unique moveset potential that had everything going for him. Not to mention everyone's confidence in 'Roc's chances despite Vergeben's claims, which was unheard of in the community... Thanks for leading us through such a wild ride. The dream, while slim, still lives on.

 

[RandomAce]

Gentlemen...I am sorry I dragged you all into this.

I'd hoped that I'd found someone worth rallying around.

Instead, all I've done is lead you into a massive joke at our expense.

...All we are to them...just a joke...

Hey don’t get yourself over this way too much.

I’m honestly quite grateful for being a part of this community, even though Lycanroc isn’t in I still learned a lot from you.

I had a lot of fun, and I’m still going to support our wolf pack. The fact that Sakurai confirmed that DLC was decided sometime prior to Xenoblade 2’s release does give me some hope as Sun and Moon and Lycanroc were at their prime 2017, and Gen 8 (or whatever the 2019 game is) are out of the window for now.

 

[LukeRNG]

As far as pokeballs go, I think we're safe. If you look on the Pokemon Items page on the official site, it says "See all Pokemon" and Lycanroc isn't on it. Interestingly, though, Tapu Koko is listed and I don't believe it's been announced prior to today. So unless more Pokeballs are added down the road (which I think is highly unlikely, but hey, you never know), I'd say Lycanroc still has a great chance.

As for the contendors for dlc, here's my ideas:

Spoiler: Posible dlc characters

-Pokemon Newcomer (Gen 7, Sceptile or Gen 8)
-Banjo-Kazooie
-Geno
-Sora
-Crash Bandicoot
-Chorus Kids
-Rayman
-Zelda Newcomer (either Impa or someone else)
-Waddle Dee or another Kirby character
-Spyro The Dragon
-Dragon Quest Protagonist
-Octopath Character
-Monster Hunter
-Lloyd Irving
-Elma
-Any other big third party like joker or 2b

The question is who will get in?

Also, that main theme and those gorgeous lyrics, there the stuff of the heavens.

 

[PeridotGX]

It was fun. Shame Lycanroc didn't make it.

 

[MasteRMerF]

As for the contendors for dlc, here's my ideas:

Spoiler: Posible dlc characters

-Pokemon Newcomer (Gen 7, Sceptile or Gen 8)
-Banjo-Kazooie
-Geno
-Sora
-Crash Bandicoot
-Chorus Kids
-Rayman
-Zelda Newcomer (either Impa or someone else)
-Waddle Dee or another Kirby character
-Spyro The Dragon
-Dragon Quest Protagonist
-Octopath Character
-Monster Hunter
-Lloyd Irving
-Elma
-Any other big third party like joker or 2b

The question is who will get in?

Also, that main theme and those gorgeous lyrics.

If I could choose 5 DLC characters from them, mine would be:
Pokemon Newcomer (Lycanroc, obviously, but I would actually love to see Sceptile. Gen 8 is still "EH?" until we see some or any of them)
Geno, Banjo-Kazooie, Chorus Kids and a Zelda Newcomer (Would LOVE to see Toon Ganondorf, Toon Zelda/Tetra or Impa)

 

[Guynamednelson]

How are we supposed to expect DLC?

Gen 8 is coming up, and if there's a ballot, you're gonna have competition with

• Decidueye supporters
• People who want gen 3/5 reps
• People who thought (insert gen 8 Pokemon here) looked cool from a preview
• People who don't want another Pokemon

A promoted AT seems more likely at this point.

 

[LukeRNG]

I know it isn't much, but i felt like doing this after world of light:

Eerily enough, Kirby is right in the middle.

 

[Deleted member]

Maybe a spirit Still was happy to support him always pack.

Glad I was hear.

 

[Mayoman]

Don't feel down, Lycanroc supporters. You weren't the only ones who got turned down

 

[RandomAce]

Oh boy
Glad to see there is DLC as there still will be a chance.
Fingers crossed and hopefully the dog is able to make it in.

It’s a pretty weird coincidence seeing how there doesn’t seem to be a SM stage. Glad it’s there to help fill the criteria for a potential “Lycanroc Bundle” and keeps the DLC possibility afloat at the very least.

A quick question, but are you a new supporter?

 

[LukeRNG]

So, looking at the potential characters, who do you think will be the 5 dlc characters? Especially since they're most likely the only dlc we'll get.

Also, how's everyone feeling about piranha plant?
Cause i was in shock for like an hour.

If there was a big wtf award, it's definitely for that character.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Also, how's everyone feeling about piranha plant?
Cause i was in shock for like an hour.

It made up for any disappointment I had. Also I'm shocked at how much they nailed Ken and still consider him an echo. He even has an MvC reference while Ryu doesn't!

 

[Talos_3rd]

It’s a pretty weird coincidence seeing how there doesn’t seem to be a SM stage. Glad it’s there to help fill the criteria for a potential “Lycanroc Bundle” and keeps the DLC possibility afloat at the very least.

A quick question, but are you a new supporter?

Yee
I've been aware of this thread. It was only recently where i decided to say something lol.

 

[GlaceonGD]

Wow, lot of activity since after the direct. I ended up going back to sleep because I was only running on four hours, so sorry for the late response. While lycanroc's chances have dwindled significantly, leaving only DLC as a possibility now, I refuse to give up hope that it can happen. I was glad to have supported the last character left on my wishlist and proud to have at least gone down fighting against all odds instead of dropping out when incineroar was leaked by vergeben. Thanks for the great experience guys, this thread was well worth putting some time into.

 

[KingTorra]

From the Incineroar thread as well. I'm sorry that things aren't looking the best for you all, but for what it's worth, a chance still remains! You guys are definitely one of the most respectable support groups, and you really see the dark side of many when you like Incineroar. So, I'm sure at least all the Incineroar supporters would be glad to join in, and I wish the coolest rock dog the best of luck for DLC! Stay hopeful!

If there is a supporter list, I would gladly join it

 

[Guynamednelson]

I just thought about something: Look at how many (mostly arbitrary fan-made) rules are broken in this game:

• Young and Toon Link coexisting
• PT still being a thing after the removal of transformations
• Third-party series having multiple fighters and assists
• A clone has a clone
• Third-party series being represented with ATs, boss battles, and spirits without playable characters
• Potentially, ATs being promoted to fighters within the same game if Waluigi and hopefully other character fans were loud enough

Maybe "Pokemon gens after 1 can only have one rep" can join them.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Ironically, I think Lycanroc has a bigger chance to be DLC than he had as base game roster.
That said, I'm not diving into DLC speculation myself. The confirmation of Daisy forced me to backseat and looking back on the years I've been speculating, I think now is a good time to actively force myself to back out entirely.

Speculating with Delzethin at the helm has to be one of the best forms of speculating and I have to applaud him for making Lycanroc an amazing choice to support and his input will not be forgotten or belittled and I'm curious to his next endeavour, and of course I'll still watch his videos since they're worth every minute.

I know I'm not in the position or of the grandeur to type out a goodbye speech like this (I still feel like that Nabbit rookie from four years ago), but that's because I truly believe there is no goodbye to be found when it comes to Lycanroc's chances themselves.

We've speculated in the face of multiple credible leaks and it'd be a shame if this thread would stop rolling because of the fire tiger because as we speculated, Lycanroc still has the potential, starpower and now with Rex being a Mii Costume, the timing. Generation 8 won't stop you, and honestly, neither should y'all.

 

[WaddleMatt]

It has been a great ride everyone, Lycanroc may not have made it and I am definitley doubting his chance for DLC. Incineroar is someone I am personally excited for despite this I know many are not. After Piranha Plant, nothing is impossible and all I can say is don't lose hope!

 

[Delzethin]

Everyone...thank you for the kind words.

Gotta say, I'm still not used to having people stick around through such demotivating times. It feels like I was just waiting for the other shoe to drop, but you guys are still here, and for that I cannot thank you enough.

I won't mince words with you, though...this won't be easy. For the first time ever, we've a finite number of character slots to go around. While we might get another wave after this one--too early to say--this is our last chance before the torch is passed to Gen 8. It's now or never, and while several potential competitors were reduced to summons, there're still many others. And now many Smashers are growing resistant, even hostile to the idea of another Pokémon getting in.

I think our best chance lies in what abilities we have that no one else can offer. With Isaac out of the running now (pour one out for our fellow earthbender, everyone), we are all that remains for characters with earth-elemental powers. Furthermore, the Midday and Dusk forms' feral quadrupedal builds are also something untapped in Smash so far (since Ivysaur relies on vines and plant parts, and Duck Hunt on the duck and pulling stuff out of hammerspace), and if they truly felt the need to add a wrestler character despite the wrestling moves we already have all across the roster, it only strengthens our argument here. With a double whammy of rare thematic touches, passing up on us now would likely mean passing up on both for a very long time...and such a now-or-never situation might just give us a chance the way Corrin's rare shapeshifting powers did.

It won't be easy...but it's a chance.


Who knows, despite the rollercoaster of emotions we've run through in the last 24 hours, I'm feeling better than I have in weeks. Though maybe that's because we finally got gameplay footage of Robin overnight and ye gods, the buffs.

Talos_3rd , KingTorra , I'll add you to the support list later today. If I forget, just prod me and I'll get it done.

 

[Garteam]

I've read somewhere that someone said the DLC was decided in the project plan. Can anyway verify this? Or is this just theory crafting off of what Sakurai said regarding Rex?

If this is true either way, this could give us a strong ray of hope. Doubling dipping from Gen 7 doesn't seem too impossible of an idea when framed in late 2015, where the biggest Nintendo game coming up is Sun and Moon. Perhaps that's what they're saving the Alola stage for?

 

[LukeRNG]

I've read somewhere that someone said the DLC was decided in the project plan. Can anyway verify this? Or is this just theory crafting off of what Sakurai said regarding Rex?

If this is true either way, this could give us a strong ray of hope. Doubling dipping from Gen 7 doesn't seem too impossible of an idea when framed in late 2015, where the biggest Nintendo game coming up is Sun and Moon. Perhaps that's what they're saving the Alola stage for?

All i know is that they've just started development of dlc, but i doubt they have more than 1 already decided.

 

[False Sense]

All i know is that they've just started development of dlc, but i doubt they have more than 1 already decided.

I think the opposite. If they've already decided that they're going to be selling a total of 5 DLC fighters over the course of a year, I think they have to have a project plan fully set up already. Actual development will take long enough already.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Were these DLC characters already planned in some form since December 2015, and just considered low priority? I can't imagine any other way that Rex would be too new.

 

[SvartWolf]

So here's where we stand:
Isaac, Shadow, Springman, Rex, Shovel Knight and Bomberman are out of the picture for dlc.
There's 5 more characters as dlc going all the way up till february 2020. If we have a chance to get another pokemon newcomer (Either Decidueye, Lycanroc or even Sceptile), it'll have to be among the first 3 dlc characters or gen 8 will take over for the last few dlc spots. We don't know if most of the dlc will be first party character or third party characters.

Looks like we have ourselves a little over a year left if lycanroc has no presence in spirits mode or pokeballs.

uhm... the only way lycanrock is happening is that he becomes some kind of popularity phenomena akin to k rool or geno, but honestly i don't see that happening.
Also he is not happening this DLC cycle... all of the DLC are already decided,... and i would put good stock that they are going to be either 3rd party big names or new series not present on smash.

There are very strong and reliable rumours regarding at least 3 of them... and none of them points toward a new pokemon .

and finally... the new pokemons getting in aren't decided on popularity. since they usually start being worked on before they got the chance to become popular .

if we getting a new pokemon. it wont be during this DLC cycle, and will very likelye be 8th gen

 

[PeridotGX]

So, looking at the potential characters, who do you think will be the 5 dlc characters? Especially since they're most likely the only dlc we'll get.

Also, how's everyone feeling about piranha plant?
Cause i was in shock for like an hour.

If there was a big wtf award, it's definitely for that character.

Bandana Dee, Tails, Geno, Banjo/Steve, and one more.

 

[LukeRNG]

uhm... the only way lycanrock is happening is that he becomes some kind of popularity phenomena akin to k rool or geno, but honestly i don't see that happening.
Also he is not happening this DLC cycle... all of the DLC are already decided,... and i would put good stock that they are going to be either 3rd party big names or new series not present on smash.

There are very strong and reliable rumours regarding at least 3 of them... and none of them points toward a new pokemon .

and finally... the new pokemons getting in aren't decided on popularity. since they usually start being worked on before they got the chance to become popular .

if we getting a new pokemon. it wont be during this DLC cycle, and will very likelye be 8th gen

Fair enough, but ultimately we don't really know the specifics. All 5 characters could already be chosen or none of them.

Question, does a character with a spirit in spirits mode become deconfirmed? Because i just noticed that Geno is a spirit.

 

[False Sense]

Fair enough, but ultimately we don't really know the specifics. All 5 characters could already be chosen or none of them.

Question, does a character with a spirit in spirits mode become deconfirmed? Because i just noticed that Geno is a spirit.

There's no official word on the subject, but my guess is no. Spirits are effectively the equivalent of Trophies in this game, which didn't stop characters like Mewtwo and Lucas from being DLC. Spirits are arguably even less significant considering that they're just artwork with an assigned effect; they can and have been mass produced to the point that the vast majority of potential first-party DLC candidates (and even some Third Party) have probably been included.

Perhaps some new info will come to light that changes this, but as of now I'm saying they don't matter.

 

[Garteam]

Fair enough, but ultimately we don't really know the specifics. All 5 characters could already be chosen or none of them.

Question, does a character with a spirit in spirits mode become deconfirmed? Because i just noticed that Geno is a spirit.

It's to tell at this point:

On one hand, spirits are the direct replacement of trophies, and both Mewtwo and Lucas had a trophy in the base games of Smash for but still made it as DLC down the road. Plus, one jpeg shouldn't have a huge impact on DLC choice.

On the other hand, spirits are intentionally designed to be way to give players a way to fight against characters who didn't make the cut. Plus, if you believe in the "DLC was all decided in 2015" theory, then it doesn't make a ton of sense to give characters you know will be playable at a later date a spirit. There's also the whole "the playable cast is stated to be the last set of characters that aren't spirits" thing, but at the same time I don't think will have an impact on whoever the choice is.

 

[LukeRNG]

So to get some thoughts all around, what are the chances that the following pokemon will get in as dlc in the chance that there is a pokemon dlc character?
-Decidueye
-Lycanroc (Any)
-Sceptile
-Grovyle (Mystery Dungeon)
-Gen 8 Pokemon

I know some of these aren't happening, but just wanted to throw some ideas to see what you all think.
I feel like Grovyle and Decidueye have lost their chances at this point, because mystery dungeon may be dead at this point and Decidueye isn't the greninja of sun and moon + pokken could heavily hinder it's chances. Plus i think the fact that Rowlet is heavily popular in japan but Decidueye isn't nowhere close could be a big factor.

So for me it comes down to Lycanroc, Sceptile or gen 8.

 

[WaddleMatt]

So to get some thoughts all around, what are the chances that the following pokemon will get in as dlc in the chance that there is a pokemon dlc character?
-Decidueye
-Lycanroc (Any)
-Sceptile
-Grovyle (Mystery Dungeon)
-Gen 8 Pokemon

I know some of these aren't happening, but just wanted to throw some ideas to see what you all think.
I feel like Grovyle and Decidueye have lost their chances at this point, because mystery dungeon may be dead at this point and Decidueye isn't the greninja of sun and moon + pokken could heavily hinder it's chances. Plus i think the fact that Rowlet is heavily popular in japan but Decidueye isn't nowhere close could be a big factor.

So for me it comes down to Lycanroc, Sceptile or gen 8.

Lycanroc is the most likely, we still don't have an earthbender on the roster and Isaac is an AT. I doubt Sceptile did that great on the ballot in all honesty and the Pokemon Company probably would rather have a newer Pokemon featured. If DLC was planned back when the base roster was I doubt we will see a Gen 8 Pokemon.

 

[Garteam]

I had a random though. Granted, its kinda a straw grasp, but hey:

CoroCoro said there were 108 stages, when in reality there were only 103, right?

Well, could CoroCoro have gotten a complete list of stages which included the DLC, seeing how we're getting 5 DLC stages? If so, this would mean that DLC's choices would've been determined by at least August 2018.

 

[RandomAce]

I had a random though. Granted, its kinda a straw grasp, but hey:

CoroCoro said there were 108 stages, when in reality there were only 103, right?

Well, could CoroCoro have gotten a complete list of stages which included the DLC, seeing how we're getting 5 DLC stages? If so, this would mean that DLC's choices would've been determined by at least August 2018.

Yeah, a lot of people noticed that when Sakurai announced that there would be 5 DLC characters in the mean time, and seeing how DLC was decided fairly early on, development could’ve started somewhere in August when the game was mostly done and all that was needed was polishing.

Anyways, anything new to discuss here for today?

 

[Deleted member]

Furthermore, the Midday and Dusk forms' feral quadrupedal builds are also something untapped in Smash so far (since Ivysaur relies on vines and plant parts, and Duck Hunt on the duck and pulling stuff out of hammerspace)

Look, not trying to be a downer, but don't you think there's a reason that such a build has been "untapped" and that the only "quadrupeds" Smash has specifically have realistic alternative means to work around the issues a "true" quadruped would have?

Midnight is the best bet Lycanroc has.
And honestly?
Would be pretty cool to have both of Cross' Pokémon able to team up in Smash, not going to lie.


A feral werewolf with rock powers and a heavy focus on punishing opponents using fake outs and cheap tricks (which yes, would include baiting with a counter) would be something right up Sakurai's alley.

 

[Delzethin]

Phew, been a little overwhelmed. Allow me to get caught up here...

Question, does a character with a spirit in spirits mode become deconfirmed? Because i just noticed that Geno is a spirit.

Spirits are essentially the new trophies, and considering Mewtwo and Lucas had trophies in the base version of Smash 4, I think we can safely say it won't be a problem. While Assist Trophies are in a bad spot, I don't think any characters who appear as spirits are out of the running whatsoever. Especially since Sakurai seemed to say that DLC production is just now beginning, meaning any planning was likely very recent and so the list of spirits was made without taking potential DLC into account.

So to get some thoughts all around, what are the chances that the following pokemon will get in as dlc in the chance that there is a pokemon dlc character?
-Decidueye
-Lycanroc (Any)
-Sceptile
-Grovyle (Mystery Dungeon)
-Gen 8 Pokemon

I know some of these aren't happening, but just wanted to throw some ideas to see what you all think.
I feel like Grovyle and Decidueye have lost their chances at this point, because mystery dungeon may be dead at this point and Decidueye isn't the greninja of sun and moon + pokken could heavily hinder it's chances. Plus i think the fact that Rowlet is heavily popular in japan but Decidueye isn't nowhere close could be a big factor.

So for me it comes down to Lycanroc, Sceptile or gen 8.

I think...if we get a new 'mon in this wave, it'll be us unless they throw another Plant-style curveball our way. The Dusk form especially has become a very big deal over the course of Ultimate's development, to the point where we overshadow Decidueye both in prominence and in having more unique stuff to offer. Sceptile made a few splashes in the Ballot, but I don't think the level of support was as overwhelming as it was for K. Rool or the like, so I don't think we'd be upstaged in that way either.

We need to get in with this wave, though, because if Wave 2 happens--which, who knows at this point--it'll be starting after the torch will have been passed to Gen 8. Either we make it now, or we're left behind forever like Zoroark was.

Look, not trying to be a downer, but don't you think there's a reason that such a build has been "untapped" and that the only "quadrupeds" Smash has specifically have realistic alternative means to work around the issues a "true" quadruped would have?

Midnight is the best bet Lycanroc has.

On the contrary, I think the reason we haven't seen a full on feral character yet is because...the opportunity just hasn't arisen for it. Ivysaur relies on prehensile vines and plant parts because it makes sense for Ivysaur to do so. Duck Hunt has a bunch of wacky animations and projectiles because the dog and duck are practically cartoon characters. We just haven't had a straight up feral character in the situation the Midday and Dusk forms are in, and the only other such character who comes to mind as a viable option is Amaterasu (who is probably overshadowed on Capcom's end by Monster Hunter and the like).

Correlation does not mean causation, and in this case, connections that may seem like they're there at first glance don't actually apply at all.


Also, how about we officially welcome Talos_3rd and KingTorra to the ranks! Thanks for reminding me.