Day, Night, and Dusk - Lycanroc for Smash Bros. Ultimate

[Deleted member]

Hey guys going to be posting here again till game launch, happy to support the rock wolf despite everything, even if it dosen't get in. I was happy to be a part of such a great pack and that means a lot.

All-Sar mode huh? Would think it'd be thought out and done well rocky terrain and all for Lycanroc.

Was happy to support it too despite how speculation went.

 

[KingTorra]

Hey guys, it's me again. Just so everyone remembers, there's no reason why gen 7 won't run well into 2019, and possibly even into 2020. Pokemon XYZ had run all the way to January 21st, 2017, 2-3 months after Sun and Moon came out. So, I don't see why a similar situation can't happen once again. Not to mention new XYZ merchandise was still being made and released even after S&M's release date.

Incineroar and Lycanroc are still up in the running!

 

[Delzethin]

Hey guys, it's me again. Just so everyone remembers, there's no reason why gen 7 won't run well into 2019, and possibly even into 2020. Pokemon XYZ had run all the way to January 21st, 2017, 2-3 months after Sun and Moon came out. So, I don't see why a similar situation can't happen once again. Not to mention new XYZ merchandise was still being made and released even after S&M's release date.

Incineroar and Lycanroc are still up in the running!

Oh, yeah, of course. There's still an option for a Gen 7 newcomer all the way up until the release date of the first Gen 8 games, I'd think.

The difficult part is getting the speculators who don't usually follow Pokémon to realize it. Remember how about 6 months ago, a significant portion of Smashers were convinced we had to be getting a Gen 8 newcomer in the base roster to "promote" the games that had to be coming this year?

 

[WeirdChillFever]

There's multiple factors to the "promotional Gen 8 newcomer"

Number one is pretty simple. When will Generation 8 even release? If it's 2019, it's not out of the question that Sakurai would anticipate the possible waning hype of Generation 7 and choose a Pokémon that's from the new games.

Number two is how early Sakurai's process of choosing DLC kicked in.

Number three, similar to that, is how Sakurai's position is when it comes to putting in a character from a game that potentionally hasn't been released yet. But this depends on whether Gen 8 has already been released by the time the DLC in question would release.

The most important thing imo, is setting up the timeline factoring in what we know about when DLC is picked, how long it takes to develop a character, Generation 8's projected release date and the gap between the project proposal of Smash 4 and X&Y's release.
Comparing the Greninja situation to the "VIIII Character's" might give us an insight if whether they are similar enough for Sakurai to go out and adapt the situation to DLC.

Note that DLC does have its differences. Even if the "DLC proposal" and Generation VIIII have a similar time-gap to when Greninja was picked and X&Y, the DLC being standalone means there's only the character's development time from that instead of the whole game to release.

Keep in mind too that DLC is a recent phenomenon for Smash, that Pokémon is already an IP that's proven to sell (so while Sakurai "waited" to include Inklings, he might have less incentive to do so for a Pokémon) and that Pokémon are chosen without the popularity factor anyway (although Game Freak/TPC have pretty strong influence on the popularity by including it everywhere)

Then there's also whether Sakurai would even get in touch with GameFreak/TPC on Generation 8 for DLC. Maybe he doesn't feel like a Pokémon is neccesary and DLC takes an entirely different direction by either filling out other ballot choices or saving the Bowser Jr's of tomorrow by bringing back characters cut from the base game.

 

[DeltaSceptile]

I just saw how many more cards Lycanroc has than Incineroar in the TCG... dang, thats a big difference. Not only do we have the anime and 100% uniqueness, we also get more marketing in the TCG.

 

[meleebrawler]

I just saw how many more cards Lycanroc has than Incineroar in the TCG... dang, thats a big difference. Not only do we have the anime and 100% uniqueness, we also get more marketing in the TCG.

Well that sounds kind of easy when you have three forms versus one...

 

[DeltaSceptile]

Well that sounds kind of easy when you have three forms versus one...

I mean, if they intended for Incineroar to ever gain more traction than Lycanroc, they would've found a way to give him more cards (especially promos).

 

[Deleted member]

People jumping on a new Pokemon bandwagon when the new game starts to arrive next year, I get it. It's good to support what's new. But I'm still supporting Incineroar and Lycanroc till the end.

If somehow nether get in yeah I could see people supporting the new starters, or whatever the new Pokemon are. Provided there is DLC and forever long it's going. This is one of Nintendo's major titles on Switch, with Super Mario Odyssey, and The Legend of Zelda Breath of the wild. They'd probably want to continue supporting it.

If so a new Pokemon will be favoured but not much so then the two favourites.

 

[Chihiro Fujisaki]

the way things are going right now is pretty wild.. if things are true, we'll have to see what happens post release. things are sure to be interesting as far as that goes.

 

[SupriceSupplies]

I don't think I've ever been in a wilder ride like this.

Admittedly, I've been won over regarding the Grinch leak, and I feel like it's likely real, but damn. What a ride it has been. (Only thing that still bugs me is the character amount.)

Guess we can only wait now. I'm starving for official (de)confirmation, and I can only hope a direct is announced when that tournament on november 3rd is over and done with.

I wonder what'll be in store for DLC, if it ends up being true. I'll at least have Chrom from my wishlist, but you bet I'll be hoping and rooting for the characters I listed in my signature. The real fight for alot of characters is only about to begin. After all, development's probably wrapping up and getting ready to go gold, if it hasn't already, and competition's likely going to be tight for both first and third parties. As for Pokémon in specific, I honestly don't think I can make a prediction at this point. I can see a gen 7 newcomer both happening and not happening through DLC.

 

[Deleted member]

I guess we'll be stuck with leaks if there is DL C.

I'm fine with that looking forward to whatever.

 

[BluePikmin11]

As of right now, somehow, I am managing to stay sane with the events going on today.

Maybe it's cause of my mood, I guess I don't wanna bother with leaks today.

 

[DeltaSceptile]

I still think that the grinch leak is fake.

 

[Delzethin]

Here's something I haven't seen brought up yet:

If the leak is real, there's a decent chance that Mach Rider's whole shtick will be fighting from atop his(?) bike at all times, essentially making him our first case of a character who fights on a mount. While it isn't anything groundbreaking playstyle-wise, it is a unique idea from a thematic standpoint. If Mach Rider is in, and with a character concept built around such a thing, it'd show once again how unique concepts like that can help out a character's chances.

And we offer something similar, in the form of a feral quadruped that doesn't rely on outside help (like Duck Hunt) or extra prehensile limbs (like Ivysaur). Something that no other character can bring, aside from long shots like Amaterasu. At the very least, it'd give us an argument for a Corrin-esque "get this interesting concept in now" situation.

 

[Mayoman]

Here's a question i've been meaning to ask. If there isn't going to be a Gen 7 Pokemon in the base roster, do you think we're still going to get a Gen 7 stage?

 

[Guynamednelson]

Here's a question i've been meaning to ask. If there isn't going to be a Gen 7 Pokemon in the base roster, do you think we're still going to get a Gen 7 stage?

Probably not. The 5 unique newcomers in the Grinch leak matches with the Corocoro 108.

 

[Delzethin]

Here's a question i've been meaning to ask. If there isn't going to be a Gen 7 Pokemon in the base roster, do you think we're still going to get a Gen 7 stage?

I could see it still happening. Wouldn't be the first time, either; we got N's Castle in Smash 3DS. And while we seem to have 5 still-unknown stages, I don't think all of the (alleged) remaining non-echo newcomers would necessarily have a stage. Mach Rider in particular seems like he/she could just use Big Blue (since it had Mach Rider's theme as its alternate music back in Melee).

 

[WeirdChillFever]

There are plenty of "race track stages" Mach could use so I guess there's room for an Alolan stage

 

[BluePikmin11]

So even people like my boi shofu have sources that Incineroar is in, according this post:

Just saying, if you guys aren't watching Japan Time right now you probably should.

They are bringing up a lot of the usual talking points about the Grinch leak, but they have given little nuggets of info that are interesting.

For example, Shofu said he thinks the leak does look legit, however he has a source for Pokemon that has given him legit info on USUM and Let's Go in the past. That source told him Incineroar is in, so he's unsure on the leak since he trusts that dude. RogersBase also agreed with that, saying he knows the same guy.

They also talked a little bit about Harada's anti-leak strategies for Tekken which was interesting. Basically he intentionally puts out fake leaks and tracks who says what. That way he was able to keep Noctis and Negan in Tekken a secret. He's gone on record admitting that he does so as well.

At this point, with so many confirming Incineroar, I am just flat out expecting Incineroar to be the Pokemon newcomer for Ultimate.

I have zero hopes that I will get my Lycanroc prediction right at all.

At the least, I look forward to finding out why he chose Incineroar out of all the Pokemon in the 7th generation.

 

[Garteam]

So even people like my boi shofu have sources that Incineroar is in, according this post:



At this point, with so many confirming Incineroar, I am just flat out expecting Incineroar to be the Pokemon newcomer for Ultimate.

I have zero hopes that I will get my Lycanroc prediction right at all.

At the least, I look forward to finding out why he chose Incineroar out of all the Pokemon in the 7th generation.

Keep in mind, all these people saying Incineroar is in also failed to leak anyone outside of Ken. As far as we know, Incineroar really could've been a red herring to keep leakers occupied and see where information spread (it's what the Tekken team does, and that's another Namco fighting game with a lot of crossover characters).

Besides, there's currently 3 possible outcomes regarding Incineroar (at least in terms of the base roster):
1. Grinch leak is all the remaining characters, Incineroar isn't in the game
2. Grinch leak is false, Incineroar is in the game
3. Grinch leak is incomplete, Incineroar is the final newcomer.

The 3rd option in particular seems very strange, why would they make Incineroar the final newcomer as opposed to Issac, Banjo, or Geno? I know Smash games haven't always ended on the most climatic final newcomers in the past (Olimar and Shulk), but would Sakurai really reject all these heavy hitters in favour of a Pokemon who is fairly divisive in terms of popularity?

Besides, we've made it through the past 2 months of everyone doubting us because of Vergeben. I think we can hang in their for another month or so, until we finally see what the launch roster will be.

 

[Delzethin]

Keep in mind, all these people saying Incineroar is in also failed to leak anyone outside of Ken. As far as we know, Incineroar really could've been a red herring to keep leakers occupied and see where information spread (it's what the Tekken team does, and that's another Namco fighting game with a lot of crossover characters).

Besides, there's currently 3 possible outcomes regarding Incineroar (at least in terms of the base roster):
1. Grinch leak is all the remaining characters, Incineroar isn't in the game
2. Grinch leak is false, Incineroar is in the game
3. Grinch leak is incomplete, Incineroar is the final newcomer.

The 3rd option in particular seems very strange, why would they make Incineroar the final newcomer as opposed to Issac, Banjo, or Geno? I know Smash games haven't always ended on the most climatic final newcomers in the past (Olimar and Shulk), but would Sakurai really reject all these heavy hitters in favour of a Pokemon who is fairly divisive in terms of popularity?

Besides, we've made it through the past 2 months of everyone doubting us because of Vergeben. I think we can hang in their for another month or so, until we finally see what the launch roster will be.

And moreover, now there seem to be rumblings that there may be conflicting information spreading behind the scenes, and the Grinch leak still hasn't had any major wrenches thrown in it yet.

This is all just...crazy. Above and beyond any reveal/leak cycle I've ever seen before. It's like being stuck out at sea during a monstrous storm, with potential hope on the horizon yet unsure if it's real and unsure if we'll survive long enough...

 

[Guynamednelson]

why would they make Incineroar the final newcomer as opposed to Issac, Banjo, or Geno?

I feel like Banjo has the most "final newcomer" vibe to him, because of the obligatory "completing the puzzle" joke, and he'd be the biggest surprise to someone who didn't know about the Grinch leak since Geno has already made some sort of appearance in Smash now.

Also, if there isn't a new Pokemon on the base roster, I think that's good for something that'd be more unique as opposed to one who'd just be Ganondorf with Flamethrower and his old smash attacks, because they would get more time to develop it.

 

[DeltaSceptile]

With all this talk about red herring leaks, what if that leak is a red herring, a fake sent out by Nintendo to mess with people? Or of course, my original idea that someone out there just gets too much enjoyment out of ****ing with others still stands. I’m sticking to saying it’s fake, mostly considering how much of a ‘too good to be true’ vibe the thing puts out (to most anyway, I couldn’t give two ****s about any of those leak characters if I tried, considering half of them faded into obscurity a long time ago, and the other half are like ‘why pick this when the franchise has so many better options?’ to me).

 

[RileyXY1]

With all this talk about red herring leaks, what if that leak is a red herring, a fake sent out by Nintendo to mess with people? Or of course, my original idea that someone out there just gets too much enjoyment out of ****ing with others still stands. I’m sticking to saying it’s fake, mostly considering how much of a ‘too good to be true’ vibe the thing puts out (to most anyway, I couldn’t give two ****s about any of those leak characters if I tried, considering half of them faded into obscurity a long time ago, and the other half are like ‘why pick this when the franchise has so many better options?’ to me).

Yeah. This is a "too good to be true" leak. There's 3 big name fan favorites (Geno, Banjo & Kazooie, and Isaac), two highly expected Echoes (Shadow & Ken), and two characters cut from previous entries (Chorus Kids & Mach Rider, although Geno fits in this category as well). Aside from Mach Rider (who would be the game's obligatory retro rep), there are no surprise characters.

 

[LukeRNG]

It seems now that smash dlc is basically 99.9% guranteed thanks to the recent financial breefing stating to focus on more dlc in the future. I just hope that whatever dlc for the other switch games is; at least fill them with a significant amount of content and that isn't a small fraction like the champion's ballad.

 

[Cosmic77]

Well, no matter what happens, I'll keep supporting Lycanroc.

And who knows. If he doesn't get in the base game, maybe he'll get in as DLC. Sounds crazy, but I would've laughed in your face five years ago if you told me Chrom, Robin, and Lucina were all getting in Smash at some point (Yes, I know two of them are Echoes, but I'm making a point).

 

[WeirdChillFever]

The more people come forward saying "It's Cineroar" the more I doubt it. Seems like a Shovel Knight situation where everyone remotely into games suddenly had a source "confirming" he was in the game.

 

[Garteam]

Ladies and Gents, we officially have a Smash Direct for Thursday.


https://www.nintendo.com/nintendo-direct/11-01-2018/

 

[BluePikmin11]

I feel like Banjo has the most "final newcomer" vibe to him, because of the obligatory "completing the puzzle" joke, and he'd be the biggest surprise to someone who didn't know about the Grinch leak since Geno has already made some sort of appearance in Smash now.

Also, if there isn't a new Pokemon on the base roster, I think that's good for something that'd be more unique as opposed to one who'd just be Ganondorf with Flamethrower and his old smash attacks, because they would get more time to develop it.

If you ask me, the final newcomer trailer would be the “surprise” character (mentioned in the Smash 4 project plan), in the vein of Duck Hunt being the last trailer for Smash 4. But right now, people expect a ballot bombshell to be the last character, which is not the only possibility to consider.

Ladies and Gents, we officially have a Smash Direct for Thursday.


https://www.nintendo.com/nintendo-direct/11-01-2018/

Wow! Finally, some news!

 

[LukeRNG]

I won't be able to watch it at home, but i will at college since i have 2 hours without classes that day.

So i won't be here at the moment of truth, but nonetheless it's exciting.

 

[Delzethin]

Well, guys, this is it. Our final judgment awaits us in two days' time. Will hopes be stomped out in cruelest fashion? Will we survive to fight another day? Or will we be joining the fight ourselves? It all comes down to this.

Going to be a nerve-wracking couple of days. And not just because I won't be able to watch it live due to my off-kilter sleep schedule.

 

[RandomAce]

Anyways with Smash coming to a close soon, just letting you all know to at least keep our heads high for what’s to come.

I really liked my time here, there were some bad moments here and there, but I generally had a lot of fun discussing with other people about a charcater we all like. This place helped me open my eyes a bit going forward and I’ll never forget it.

And hey, it may not even end here. If DLC is our next shot, then I say we should still stick in an make our support louder.

One shouldn’t give up until the very last moment.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I hope we can discuss still, if it’s not Lycanroc. Once an interview regarding the Pokémon newcomer comes up regarding someone like Incineroar, let us try to figure out why our Lycanroc prediction was wrong.

I rather not end this thread anticlimactically, but end it with a good speculation discussion.

 

[DeltaSceptile]

Best of luck to our rocky wolf!

 

[VexTheHex]

The 3rd option in particular seems very strange, why would they make Incineroar the final newcomer as opposed to Issac, Banjo, or Geno? I know Smash games haven't always ended on the most climatic final newcomers in the past (Olimar and Shulk), but would Sakurai really reject all these heavy hitters in favour of a Pokemon who is fairly divisive in terms of popularity?.

I still wonder if they are revealed as they were added. It's possible the Pokemon rep was put on the back burner while they got the ballot picks out of the way and easy to make echos. Incineroar (or someone else) could of been the last one completed and confirmed to make it into the base roster. So promo work for him would be last/later.

 

[Deleted member]

Well boys and girls the wolf's fate awaits. Whatever happens for the mutt, just kidding, whatever happens for the badass wolf.

I'm happy I supported it.

 

[SupriceSupplies]

Well, although I was mostly a lurker in this thread, it was fun hanging around here. Personally hoping DLC season won't be as leak filled or have a Roy/Ryu repeat. I'm feeling pretty confident that Lycanroc not out of the running at the very least. For now, I'm gonna hold out hope that it isn't a worst case scenario.
See you on the other side, for better or worse.

 

[Tuoko]

The time has come. Hopefully we survive the day for DLC, but if not, it's been a wild ride and I'm glad to have supported the wolfy boi.

 

[Delzethin]

I still wonder if they are revealed as they were added. It's possible the Pokemon rep was put on the back burner while they got the ballot picks out of the way and easy to make echos. Incineroar (or someone else) could of been the last one completed and confirmed to make it into the base roster. So promo work for him would be last/later.

Yet that wouldn't make sense if the leak is legitimate, as it depicts promotional material (and visual aid for assembling promotional material) that is meant to be sent out to retail stores. Why would a character that is in the base roster be left out of that when we know the entire base roster will be revealed before release?

 

[RidleyKraid187]

Yet that wouldn't make sense if the leak is legitimate, as it depicts promotional material (and visual aid for assembling promotional material) that is meant to be sent out to retail stores. Why would a character that is in the base roster be left out of that when we know the entire base roster will be revealed before release?

PapaGenos mentioned in his latest video that one possibility for what happened to the Pokémon rep (he specifically says Incineroar, but it could really apply to any character) is that they were just knocked down in priority by another character, and that any characters that happened to would wind up being DLC later ( Specifically, he theorizes that Sakurai got the rights to use Banjo from Microsoft at E3, and he shifted characters down the priority ladder to get Banjo in the base game)

Basically, someone was intended for base game, Banjo comes along, and Sakurai shuffles priority a bit to get Banjo in for the base game. Whoever was knocked down is to be picked up later for DLC. I don’t know how much water this idea holds, but I think something similar happened for Sonic back in Brawl.