Day, Night, and Dusk - Lycanroc for Smash Bros. Ultimate

[WeirdChillFever]

I’m fifty-fifty on this.

On one hand, it may seem too optimistic, but a lot of people have pointed out that the newcomers still fall into Sakurai’s criteria, and that this image would be incredibly hard to fake, especially since some of the characters have moved.

A) We would still have less newcomers than previous games, 10- 11* brand new fighters, which fits Sakurai’s not expecting too many new challengers. Even with echoes, we’re still at 16-17*, which is still less than Smash 4, and Sakurai never really specified how many we’ll get.

B) Sakurai never specified if slowing down reveals meant less charcaters. Even with 7-8* new challengers we would still would have received information about 2 months after Isabelle.

So, what does this have to do with Lycanroc? One thing that’s interesting is that Spawn Wave has stated that there is one character in the mural not yet mentioned from this leak. So that may be where our Pokémon newcomer is. Now, what if there isn’t any? We would be the most likely Gen 7 Pokémon for DLC. Sakurai wouldn’t have to look into future plans and instead looked at what already happened, and with Lycanroc being this generations’s top dog, Lycanroc could very likely get selected.

I do want to say that, if there is a Gen 7 Pokémon for the base game, then I would be a little worried since Incineroar and Verge would still be a threat, but I still think that Lycanroc is still likely. It’s just that oddly, DLC may make Lycanroc even more likely.

Either way, we still got this. Lycanroc is still a possibility with what they’ve got going for them.

*There’s currently a figure around Shiek’s spot on the banner, it seems like it resembles Elma, but I want to know most people thoughts on this.

The "figure" around Sheik is just R.O.B plus some clouds and Luigi's missile trail

 

[DeltaSceptile]

I don’t believe the leak. I’ve seen more than enough fake leaks that are really well put together. But unlike leakers, I don’t base things on what people want, I base my logic on the types of left field choices Sakurai has made in the past. With that said, the leak just has too many obvious options to be considered real, even Mach rider is essentially an obvious choice if Sakurai added a retro rep. I refuse to believe that leak unless every single character has been 100% without a doubt confirmed. And saying gen 7 could be dlc is grasping at straws, which is why I am putting everything on Sakurai giving us one for the base roster. It happened in every previous game, so why not now? Just wouldn’t make sense. Not only all this but the leak seems to be heavily conflicting with Verge’s claim on Incineroar, and he, as much as I hate to say it, is the only truly credible leaker we’ve had so far with smash info. And I still refuse to believe Metroid should ever have more reps than dk. In no way should that ever happen, unless Sakurai really hates dk that much.

 

[Cosmic77]

I'll just give a short summary.

Do I think the leak is real? Leaning towards it being fake, mainly because I've seen the fanbase do crazier things, and five unique newcomers for a final Direct would be insane (that would double what we have right now).

What would happen to Lycanroc if no Pokemon made the base roster? I don't think Gen VII would be in a good position, but if Sakurai were to consider visiting Gen VII despite being on the brink of becoming old news and irrelevant, Lycanroc would definitely be one if the top contenders.

 

[LukeRNG]

I can't really see this leak being real, why does every supossed ''leak'' have to always be blurry? The ESRB leak wasn't that blurry to begin with. I'm going to go and say with a 70/30 that it's fake, especially because most of them make sense (except mach rider). I will say with how much talk incineroar is getting with vergeben, i'm suprised they didn't include a pokemon newcomer (if this is indeed fake of course). And honestly, anyone can draw in high quality and place it in a small, blurred out picture.

And the #1 thing that makes me believe it's fake is that it hasn't been taken down at all. Maybe i'm overthinking how these things work but i'd rather wait and see.

 

[SuperSceptile15]

Even if the leak is fake, which I think it is, I think we might be overestimating how important Pokemon type representation is to Sakurai. There are already two Water types and two Electric types in the roster, and most of the Pokemon don't even do a good job of representing their secondary types. Ivysaur doesn't have any Poison type moves in its moveset. Charizard's recovery is the only Flying-type move in its moveset. Jigglypuff doesn't have any Fairy-type moves in its moveset. Lucario doesn't have any Steel type moves in its moveset.

 

[meleebrawler]

Even if the leak is fake, which I think it is, I think we might be overestimating how important Pokemon type representation is to Sakurai. There are already two Water types and two Electric types in the roster, and most of the Pokemon don't even do a good job of representing their secondary types. Ivysaur doesn't have any Poison type moves in its moveset. Charizard's recovery is the only Flying-type move in its moveset. Jigglypuff doesn't have any Fairy-type moves in its moveset. Lucario doesn't have any Steel type moves in its moveset.

Can you honestly tell Ivysaur is a poison type just by looking? That typing is an afterthought, especially with how widespread it was in Gen 1. And the only poison move the line learns by level up is Poison Powder. Likewise Charizard only really learns a couple of flying moves in Wing Attack (seen in utilt and usmash) and Air Slash by level-up.

Lucario's only good steel move is Flash Cannon, and that is rendered redundant by Aura Sphere, Not even Pokken Tournament could think of a good use for his steel moves.

Seeing as how Jigglypuff is pretty much hanging solely via die-hard Smash fans, any big change that comes simply due to a very recently introduced typing could seriously alienate them.

 

[Fire Tactician]

While not a great spot for Lycanroc supporters, today's news wasn't bad. Disconfirming Incineroar means that there's still a chance we'll get a Pokemon newcomer from Gen VII as DLC, meaning that Lycanroc, who has only gotten more and more popular since his reveal, probably has a slightly higher chance than some of his other Alolan brethren. I'm not going to lose hope for this good boy any time soon!

Even if the leak is fake, which I think it is, I think we might be overestimating how important Pokemon type representation is to Sakurai. There are already two Water types and two Electric types in the roster, and most of the Pokemon don't even do a good job of representing their secondary types. Ivysaur doesn't have any Poison type moves in its moveset. Charizard's recovery is the only Flying-type move in its moveset. Jigglypuff doesn't have any Fairy-type moves in its moveset. Lucario doesn't have any Steel type moves in its moveset.

To be fair, moveset-wise:

• Venusaur used to not run many Poison moves back when Ivysaur was introduced in Gen IV, with the exception of Toxic, which would be strange in a Smash setting. All of the moves that were repped were decently iconic thanks to the anime (and though Bullet Seed was Treecko's signature move for a while, it emphasized the flower on Ivysaur's back).
• Charizard ran very few Flying moves as well back then- Air Slash was a new addition in Gen IV and Wing Attack was usually just a leveling move for Charizard back in previous generations (though you could argue that Charizard's Up-Smash is Wing Attack). Fly was his most notable Flying move for ages. I can't see Air Slash fitting into his moveset with Fly already there and the arguably more iconic Flare Blitz and Flamethrower.
• Jigglypuff wasn't a Fairy until Smash 4, and they don't seem to update movesets often unless the characters have major presences in modern games (barring small animation changes like we saw Ness' U-Air get).
• Lucario had some pretty crap Steel moves in Gen IV and even his good ones saw little use on him because Steel was such a bad offensive typing back then and three of his four specials are pretty iconic moves for him (Double Team is a bit odd).
• Amusingly, I'd criticize Greninja, because he is commonly run with Dark moves. That said, Sakurai did develop him mostly based on designs and inspiration rather than actually waiting for the games to show off what moves.

TLDR: Sure, the movesets don't quite represent secondary typings well, but they do a decent job at representing the Pokemon and how they were actually used at the time of their Smash debut.

 

[Mayoman]

So guys, Nintendo uploaded a new trailer for Smash Ultimate not too long ago on their Youtube channel. It's not a character reveal though, just gameplay we've already seen. Do you all think this could mean something significant related to the Grinch leak?

 

[LukeRNG]

So guys, Nintendo uploaded a new trailer for Smash Ultimate not too long ago on their Youtube channel. It's not a character reveal though, just gameplay we've already seen. Do you all think this could mean something significant related to the Grinch leak?

... Grinch?

 

[Guynamednelson]

... Grinch?

It's called the Grinch leak because there was some artwork from the new Grinch movie leaked alongside it.

 

[GlaceonGD]

The fact that Nintendo posted that video now seems a little out of place, a bit too early for something like that imo. Do I think it means something? Not really, although it is a bit strange. As for this leak that has been brought up recently I'm neutral, I don't think it's real and I don't think it's fake, I typically stay away from having opinions on things because I always get criticized for them (i.e. thinking eevee can be playable and using discord light theme instead of dark theme, yeah It's really stupid and please don't say anything about it here I'm just using them as examples). Do I want the leak to be real? Eh, it has good characters but once again I don't have much of an opinion on this front. If worst comes to worst and there is no pokemon in the base roster I'll still hope for Lycanroc making a DLC appearance, but I'm not giving up on base yet, we still have a chance no matter how small it is.

 

[DeltaSceptile]

I can't really see this leak being real, why does every supossed ''leak'' have to always be blurry? The ESRB leak wasn't that blurry to begin with. I'm going to go and say with a 70/30 that it's fake, especially because most of them make sense (except mach rider). I will say with how much talk incineroar is getting with vergeben, i'm suprised they didn't include a pokemon newcomer (if this is indeed fake of course). And honestly, anyone can draw in high quality and place it in a small, blurred out picture.

And the #1 thing that makes me believe it's fake is that it hasn't been taken down at all. Maybe i'm overthinking how these things work but i'd rather wait and see.

Blurryness could be exactly what immediately debunks this leak. Like you said, Esrb actually had decent pics that weren’t overly blurry, but this is really blurry, which makes it even easier to be fake, especially when every single extra character on it looked rather questionable compared to what we’ve already seen to me. Don’t worry, your not overthinking it, just carefully analyzing it. Besides, nothing in that leak truly comes out of left field, and that’s not a Sakurai thing to do. If that was a real leak it would have some character we never expected, like excitebiker, balloon kid, porky, koopa, etc. or a random Pokémon like cyndaquil(even though that would be pretty cool to me). Mach rider at this point seems to be the most expected retro rep, and that’s why I’m saying he isn’t exactly a left field pick.

 

[Mayoman]

https://youtu.be/6b3QRObLD54

You guys might wanna watch this.

 

[DeltaSceptile]

https://youtu.be/6b3QRObLD54

You guys might wanna watch this.

Incineroar... leakbait. I’m gonna say that the leak is almost certainly fake, but not because of that. I say it’s fake because I know that Sakurai wouldn’t have just made echoes a thing only to make around six, (as I still don’t think shadow could work as an echo) and personally don’t think it’s even possible for us to get more than 4 more unique newcomers due to the sheer amount of the game we haven’t seen yet. They’d need more than just one direct to show that many characters, and still, only 2 echoes remaining seems off. Also has anyone else noticed that modes are never leaked? Is it because people don’t care about modes, or is it because modes are locked up tighter than the characters?

 

[RandomAce]

So here’s something I wanted to talk about for a bit.

Yes, it’s related to Incineroar, but more in line with something else. You see, according to some of the indsiders, the reason why some were hesitant on the recent leak is because Incineroar wasn’t present...

https://youtu.be/6b3QRObLD54


You guys might wanna watch this.

Apparently it seemed that a couple of insiders were aware about Incineroar being in Smash, but the fact that he wasn’t shown here surprised them. Could be Incineroar be leak bait? It could’ve happened, and it would’ve worked seeing how a lot of people were pegged on his inclusion, but there’s a lot of mystery surrounding the Pokémon newcomer once again, and we’re even dealing with there not being one.

Either way, condolences for the Incineroar supporters since they were hyped up for it to be in the game only for to not come true. I can only imagine having to be stopped to such a sudden stop, especially after the turmoil you’ve been through.
——————————————————————
Delzethin , I guess you we’re right about there being no Pokémon newcomer for the base game as that looks incredibly likely now. (I wonder if you have info! ). But it looks like we’re running for DLC now.

I do have to say, I feel pretty confident about Lycanroc as a Gen VII DLC newcomer. It seems that Sakurai did plan a newcomer for Gen VII but wasn’t able to possibly due to time constraints similar to Monster Hunter seeing that apparently they had a character that was cut. With Gen VII still some ample time left before the 2019 Switch game, maybe they’ll reconsider a Gen VII pokemon?

This time, instead of having to look at future plans and make a prediction, they can instead look at the things that have already been done. The points in favor of Lycanroc that we’ve brought up can be brought over but even stronger since they can now factor into Lycanroc’s inclusion even better and more clearly. Not to mention that TPC did a successful job in making them pretty popular to maybe sell, making them a stand out mon Sun and Moon.

It may seem very optimistic to some of you, but I usually expected a Gen VII pokemon as well and decided to look at things from a different perspective.

 

[Garteam]

https://youtu.be/6b3QRObLD54

You guys might wanna watch this.

While PapaGenos is a pretty trustworthy guy, I'm calling this info fake. I'm always really hesitant when people go the "I have insider info I just can't share it who it is at all", as anyone can claim that with no real proof.

Even thinking about it objectively, this leak's contents scream "fake" to me. Not only are we getting the 5 characters from the banner leak, but we're getting 2 more (Incineroar and whoever Spawn Wave is referring to), for a grand total of 7 unique, unrevealed newcomers. That is an insane quantity for being 6 weeks away from the game's release and it puts the number of unique newcomers at 12, the same number of unique newcomers in base Smash 4 (which contradicts Sakurai's statement of limited newcomers).

 

[True Blue Warrior]

the same number of unique newcomers in base Smash 4

There were 15 non-Echo newcomers:

 

[Delzethin]

Lot of varying thoughts on the potential leaks so far in here. That's good; it helps to have different opinions to deliberate on. Falling rank and file under one idea without question doesn't help anyone, and it wouldn't help us.

But hoo boy, has the past 28 hours been a rollercoaster ride, and it just refuses to let up. Can we get a date for that Smash Direct that we all know is coming already?

So here’s something I wanted to talk about for a bit.

Yes, it’s related to Incineroar, but more in line with something else. You see, according to some of the indsiders, the reason why some were hesitant on the recent leak is because Incineroar wasn’t present...


Apparently it seemed that a couple of insiders were aware about Incineroar being in Smash, but the fact that he wasn’t shown here surprised them. Could be Incineroar be leak bait? It could’ve happened, and it would’ve worked seeing how a lot of people were pegged on his inclusion, but there’s a lot of mystery surrounding the Pokémon newcomer once again, and we’re even dealing with there not being one.

Either way, condolences for the Incineroar supporters since they were hyped up for it to be in the game only for to not come true. I can only imagine having to be stopped to such a sudden stop, especially after the turmoil you’ve been through.
——————————————————————
Delzethin , I guess you we’re right about there being no Pokémon newcomer for the base game as that looks incredibly likely now. (I wonder if you have info! ). But it looks like we’re running for DLC now.

I do have to say, I feel pretty confident about Lycanroc as a Gen VII DLC newcomer. It seems that Sakurai did plan a newcomer for Gen VII but wasn’t able to possibly due to time constraints similar to Monster Hunter seeing that apparently they had a character that was cut. With Gen VII still some ample time left before the 2019 Switch game, maybe they’ll reconsider a Gen VII pokemon?

This time, instead of having to look at future plans and make a prediction, they can instead look at the things that have already been done. The points in favor of Lycanroc that we’ve brought up can be brought over but even stronger since they can now factor into Lycanroc’s inclusion even better and more clearly. Not to mention that TPC did a successful job in making them pretty popular to maybe sell, making them a stand out mon Sun and Moon.

It may seem very optimistic to some of you, but I usually expected a Gen VII pokemon as well and decided to look at things from a different perspective.

It seems that we're at a point where our only potential outcomes are survival or oblivion, and a lot of people hedged their bets on the latter yet we may end up with the former. I realize being openly biased doesn't befit a leader, but I really hope this leak doesn't turn out to be fake. I don't know if I can take having our hopes be rekindled like this only to be ripped away once more. Can I just...not end up on the side that gets made an example of for once?


Anyway...if this does end up being legitimate, it bodes well for us, but it'd also raise questions as to exactly what has been passed around in places. I'm not sure I buy the whole "deliberately planting incorrect characters" thing yet, but I could see a situation where Incineroar was considered early on but scrapped. Just like Chrom and the Chorus Kids were last time, and if the seemingly unrelated Chadondorf poster from a month ago whose claims nailed every character in the artwork without fail is correct about cuts, then just like Monster Hunter, Dixie, and Ray 01 as well.

We're walking a thin line...let us hope that this newfound hope keeps it from breaking.

 

[Garteam]

There were 15 non-Echo newcomers:

...I totally forgot about the Miis.

Regardless, only 3 less than Smash 4 isn't really a significant downgrade, at least not one worth highlighting when we're only two newcomers in.

Lot of varying thoughts on the potential leaks so far in here. That's good; it helps to have different opinions to deliberate on. Falling rank and file under one idea without question doesn't help anyone, and it wouldn't help us.

But hoo boy, has the past 28 hours been a rollercoaster ride, and it just refuses to let up. Can we get a date for that Smash Direct that we all know is coming already?


It seems that we're at a point where our only potential outcomes are survival or oblivion, and a lot of people hedged their bets on the latter yet we may end up with the former. I realize being openly biased doesn't befit a leader, but I really hope this leak doesn't turn out to be fake. I don't know if I can take having our hopes be rekindled like this only to be ripped away once more. Can I just...not end up on the side that gets made an example of for once?


Anyway...if this does end up being legitimate, it bodes well for us, but it'd also raise questions as to exactly what has been passed around in places. I'm not sure I buy the whole "deliberately planting incorrect characters" thing yet, but I could see a situation where Incineroar was considered early on but scrapped. Just like Chrom and the Chorus Kids were last time, and if the seemingly unrelated Chadondorf poster from a month ago whose claims nailed every character in the artwork without fail is correct about cuts, then just like Monster Hunter, Dixie, and Ray 01 as well.

We're walking a thin line...let us hope that this newfound hope keeps it from breaking.

While I do agree that this is probably the best set of news we've gotten in awhile (definitely beats Vergeben by a mile), there is one element about this leak that scares me: Isaac. I'm not super familiar with Golden Sun, but isn't Isaac a geokinetic? Would that possibly cut into Lycanroc's niche, or I am just misunderstanding how Isaac uses his powers?

Regardless, this leak is really making me feel good about DLC. I'd say a Gen 7 Pokemon is either probably the second most likely thing to occur in early DLC behind Bandana Waddle Dee (the last character with really high traction on the ballot) and in that category we are definitely the leading character.

 

[Delzethin]

...I totally forgot about the Miis.

Regardless, only 3 less than Smash 4 isn't really a significant downgrade, at least not one worth highlighting when we're only two newcomers in.


While I do agree that this is probably the best set of news we've gotten in awhile (definitely beats Vergeben by a mile), there is one element about this leak that scares me: Isaac. I'm not super familiar with Golden Sun, but isn't Isaac a geokinetic? Would that possibly cut into Lycanroc's niche, or I am just misunderstanding how Isaac uses his powers?

Regardless, this leak is really making me feel good about DLC. I'd say a Gen 7 Pokemon is either probably the second most likely thing to occur in early DLC behind Bandana Waddle Dee (the last character with really high traction on the ballot) and in that category we are definitely the leading character.

Well, if the Grinch leak truly is showing off everyone for the base roster, we'd be looking at 10 non-echo newcomers, 5 fewer than Smash 4 pre-DLC and 9 fewer than post-DLC.

You're...more or less correct about Isaac, though Venus psynergy casts a pretty wide net. It ranges from creating rocks to summoning plant life (like the grass that seems to be at his feet in the art) to raw earthen energy to even manifesting the energy as a psychic hand to move stuff around with. While it would take away our "first earthbender on the roster" argument, there's still plenty of room for a second as long as it's done in a unique way--after all, we have two waterbenders, more fire users than you can count on one hand, and countless different types of swordplay. Lycanroc's control over earth and stone is more as a raw force of nature compared to Isaac's more mystical take on it, meaning we'd only really take a minor hit. Especially when we still have the feral quadruped angle to fall back on, as well as just how important Lycanroc has become in the anime and the franchise as a whole.

Can't you just see the #EarthBros tag already?

 

[Guynamednelson]

Apparently it seemed that a couple of insiders were aware about Incineroar being in Smash, but the fact that he wasn’t shown here surprised them. Could be Incineroar be leak bait? It could’ve happened, and it would’ve worked seeing how a lot of people were pegged on his inclusion, but there’s a lot of mystery surrounding the Pokémon newcomer once again, and we’re even dealing with there not being one.

I don't think Incineroar was leaker bait. I think people just focused a bit too much on the idea of another starter being promoted like Greninja, and Verg and all the leakers trying to ape him went with it.

 

[SupriceSupplies]

Can't you just see the #EarthBros tag already?

Haha, reminds me of that popularity tournament on reddit where Isaac fans and Lloyd fans teamed up as #NotJustAnotherAnimeSwordsman or something like that.

Lycanroc's control over earth and stone is more as a raw force of nature compared to Isaac's more mystical take on it, meaning we'd only really take a minor hit.

Yeah, I have to second that. What a character uses is definitely important, but I also believe how is a big factor. Similarly, although I've not seen it much, I've seen people put Bandana Waddle Dee and Ephraim as competition to each other simply because both of their (primary) weapons are spears/lances. (I'm not too well-versed on FE so excuse me if I get something wrong.) The thing is, their movesets would likely differ immensely. With Ephraim most likely being a more traditional spearfighter with more down to earth abilities, while Bandana Dee would most likely do stuff like helicopter around.
And as you've said, it's not as if archetypes don't get revisited. Ike and Meta Knight play extremely different from each other, after all, and they were newcomers in the same game! (Well, maybe it's not the best example considering the types of swords, but you get the point. Basic differences and utilizations are pretty important.)

 

[RandomAce]

Honestly, if you’re a bit worried about Isaac being the end all for Lycanroc, you shouldn’t be.

Even in the leak, Isaac is shown to also use plant based powers as well. Isaac isn’t primarily an earth user, but rather uses a lot of different abilities along with his earth abilities.

Not to mention that Lycanroc and Isaac both use their earth powers very differently for more obvious reasons. Lycanroc can still very well be our first full earth user, while Isaac can fill a seperate niche (earth/grass spellsword). Both characters can still be very unique from one another and the cast at the same time. They are both thematically and cosmetically very different that have things about them that make them interesting on their own.

Plus, having two earth users isn’t a lot compared to the rest of the roster and the multitude of characters that share similar stuff. Cmon, the idea of #EarthBros with Isaac and Lycanroc sounds too cool to honestly pass up.

 

[lightdrago]

So if this leak turns out to be true, neither rock dog or fire cat gets in. A (un)funny twist of fate, huh? Of course, I’m not giving up yet, and neither should you guys.

The next Smash direct should make or break it.

 

[LukeRNG]

It's certainly frustrating that nintendo got i the habbit of announcing their direct 2-3 days prior to the event itself, which while it has it's benefits, it creates these phases of anxiety of when said direct will happen. At the very least they should tell us a week prior.

 

[Garteam]

The new trailer shown at the Wendy's College Tailgate Tour has an item spawn that appears to be Golden Sun's growth syenergy.

The Grinch leak just got a whole lot more credible.

 

[StarFan13]

I Know maybe it's going to be be poke ball Pokemon

 

[Delzethin]

The new trailer shown at the Wendy's College Tailgate Tour has an item spawn that appears to be Golden Sun's growth syenergy.

The Grinch leak just got a whole lot more credible.

Yeah, while we don't know 100% that it's Growth, the idea that it might be is very valid. The symbol on the thing looks just like an updated version of the original symbol from the GBA games. This just keeps getting more bizarre.


On another note, we kinda blew right past the Shadow thread over the last couple days, haha. So that makes us...I believe the 13th biggest support thread on the boards now, 10th among characters who aren't deconfirmed? Though that might change to 10th and 7th soon, the way things are going...

Either way, the Captain Toad thread is the next above us now.

 

[LukeRNG]

As long as Lycanroc doesn't show up as a pokeball assist, we will be fine. The frustrating part is that there's a chance that they will keep some pokeball assists hidden up til launch.

 

[KingTorra]

I'm from the Incineroar support group. Obviously there's a bit of frustration seeing how there's no pokemon rep whatsoever in the current rumor. But hope you all stay strong! At least everyone on our side hasn't lost confidence, best of luck to your campaign as well!

 

[Delzethin]

As long as Lycanroc doesn't show up as a pokeball assist, we will be fine. The frustrating part is that there's a chance that they will keep some pokeball assists hidden up til launch.

Technically, we just need the Dusk form to survive unscathed. Midday or Midnight showing up as a summon wouldn't immediately preclude the most prominent of the forms from being playable, at least in theory.

Though you have a point that we might not know of every summon until the game is in our hands...

 

[Guynamednelson]

Technically, we just need the Dusk form to survive unscathed. Midday or Midnight showing up as a summon wouldn't immediately preclude the most prominent of the forms from being playable, at least in theory.

Though you have a point that we might not know of every summon until the game is in our hands...

It does look like the rule is "Poke Ball Pokemon and playable Pokemon can't be from the same families, unless there are alternate forms". Venusaur and Blastoise were cut with the arrival of Squirtle and Ivysaur, but you can get Alolan Raichu from Poke Balls.

 

[RileyXY1]

The new trailer shown at the Wendy's College Tailgate Tour has an item spawn that appears to be Golden Sun's growth syenergy.

The Grinch leak just got a whole lot more credible.

Just because a series has an item does not mean that it's getting a character. The Lip's Stick has been an item since Brawl and Lip has yet to join the roster.

 

[Garteam]

Just because a series has an item does not mean that it's getting a character. The Lip's Stick has been an item since Brawl and Lip has yet to join the roster.

That's true, but it would be odd to add a Golden Sun item without anything else, especially after Smash 4 scrubbed itself of Golden Sun content for some reason.

 

[LukeRNG]

On another topic, here's some other ideas to talk about:
1-. Since classic mode has preset themes for each fighter, what would lycanroc's theme be?
2-. What will be the new format for all-star mode? Melee was random except game & watch, brawl was chronological by series, 3ds was chronological by character debut and wii u was reverse chronological character debut. Would they reuse one of the previous ones or go with something new?
3-. If lycanroc isn't base game and there's dlc, would you expect a dlc teaser for lycanroc at the end of the smash direct like mewtwo in the 50 fact extravaganza?

 

[BluePikmin11]

You know with this recent leak and how people seem to perceive Incineroar as the true underdog lately, it would be kinda weird to me at this point if the leak ended up being fake with Incineroar being deconfirmed, only for Lycanroc to be playable as the Pokemon newcomer. If that actually happened, I would not know how to feel. I guess it would feel surreal.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

On another topic, here's some other ideas to talk about:
1-. Since classic mode has preset themes for each fighter, what would lycanroc's theme be?
2-. What will be the new format for all-star mode? Melee was random except game & watch, brawl was chronological by series, 3ds was chronological by character debut and wii u was reverse chronological character debut. Would they reuse one of the previous ones or go with something new?
3-. If lycanroc isn't base game and there's dlc, would you expect a dlc teaser for lycanroc at the end of the smash direct like mewtwo in the 50 fact extravaganza?

1. No idea what the preset themes mean for Classic Mode
2. All-Star Mode. if I may make a guess, might follow the character number order they've used on the site, blog and E3 presentation.
3. No, it's gonna be a heavy hitter like Geno or Banjo

 

[Delzethin]

You know, there's something oddly satisfying about seeing that comma in the four digit post count. It's like how Octopath Traveler does it for your party's HP once they start getting over 1,000 of it.

On another topic, here's some other ideas to talk about:
1-. Since classic mode has preset themes for each fighter, what would lycanroc's theme be?
2-. What will be the new format for all-star mode? Melee was random except game & watch, brawl was chronological by series, 3ds was chronological by character debut and wii u was reverse chronological character debut. Would they reuse one of the previous ones or go with something new?
3-. If lycanroc isn't base game and there's dlc, would you expect a dlc teaser for lycanroc at the end of the smash direct like mewtwo in the 50 fact extravaganza?

1. Something involving the narrative of (Ultra) Sun & Moon, potentially. Or maybe something tying into the Island Challenge?

2. Not sure, honestly, but they're going to need to set it up in a way so that you don't have to fight literally everyone. Imagine having to bring down what could potentially be over 80 characters without getting a Game Over! Now imagine having to do that at least once with over 80 characters!

3. I don't think we'd be the first DLC reveal, at least, not the only opening DLC reveal. I could see a scenario where they unveil two DLC characters at once and we're among them, but I figure they'd want the headliner to be someone more recognized outside their own fandom, to get people to sit up and take notice. Someone like Rex would pull that off better, I think, with how much Xenoblade has grown and how many people expected him to make the base roster.

 

[Cosmic77]

Looking back, this has been the craziest speculation cycle for Pokemon characters in Smash history.

We all thought we knew what to expect after Greninja. Most people thought we'd get a grass starter (Decidueye) to complete the starter circle, while others got behind Mimikyu and Lycanroc. Then E3 passes, and Decidueye loses steam. It's neck and neck between all three popular Pokemon. In July, Verge claims none of the three Pokemon are getting in, and then Mimikyu gets disconfirmed the following month. Loz18 leaks a PM that shows Verge saying Incineroar is who he was told to expect, and then many fans (begrudgingly) move over to support the fire cat. Decidueye on the other hand gets left in the dust and abandoned by his supporters. Finally, we get this new Grinch leak, and everyone is dropping Incineroar like he never had a chance.

Even if Lycanroc doesn't get in, I'm thankful for being lucky enough to choose the Pokemon with the consistent fanbase. Regardless of what happened, regardless of how unlikely ours odds became, we continued to support our character.

 

[Delzethin]

Looking back, this has been the craziest speculation cycle for Pokemon characters in Smash history.

We all thought we knew what to expect after Greninja. Most people thought we'd get a grass starter (Decidueye) to complete the starter circle, while others got behind Mimikyu and Lycanroc. Then E3 passes, and Decidueye loses steam. It's neck and neck between all three popular Pokemon. In July, Verge claims none of the three Pokemon are getting in, and then Mimikyu gets disconfirmed the following month. Loz18 leaks a PM that shows Verge saying Incineroar is who he was told to expect, and then many fans (begrudgingly) move over to support the fire cat. Decidueye on the other hand gets left in the dust and abandoned by his supporters. Finally, we get this new Grinch leak, and everyone is dropping Incineroar like he never had a chance.

Even if Lycanroc doesn't get in, I'm thankful for being lucky enough to choose the Pokemon with the consistent fanbase. Regardless of what happened, regardless of how unlikely ours odds became, we continued to support our character.

It's still so...frustrating, seeing how far things have gone and yet how little we've been acknowledged. Once DLC picks up, most speculators are going to jump right to Gen 8 and overlook us all over again, I'd bet. And yet, we've survived this far, and we may yet get the chance to upend their expectations next year.

We'll need a compelling argument to win more people over, though. Something that makes them realize that not only will Gen 7 have a window all the way up until Gen 8 is out, but that Dusk Lycanroc is both a really interesting option and one the Smash team would get pointed toward.