Day, Night, and Dusk - Lycanroc for Smash Bros. Ultimate

[False Sense]

So, how many characters do you all think are left? Both unique and echos. I'd say around 5 characters: 3 unique and 2 echoes. The uniques would be: new pokemon, a third party (either rayman, banjo-kazooie or geno), and a nintendo character (either isaac, skull kid or bandana waddle dee). The echoes would just be Ken & Shadow cause they make too much sense.

I'm only expecting 1-2 unique characters left. Same for echoes.

I just don't think we have that much left to see.

 

[Cosmic77]

So this is weird.

I know RandomAce already heard from the general discussion thread, but apparently there's a new rumor from Imran (the same guy who told people not to expect much from E3 outside of Smash) that Verge is actually an alias for six different people who are getting info from multiple sources.

Huge grain of salt because this sounds like a crazy as heck theory you'd see from a obsessive Smash conspiracy theorist, but it sure is interesting. No idea what this means for Lycanroc if it's true, but what are your thoughts?

Personally, I think it's either a misunderstanding, or a completely false allegation against Verge.

 

[DeltaSceptile]

I'm only expecting 1-2 unique characters left. Same for echoes.

I just don't think we have that much left to see.

Don't be such a downer. Remember modes exist too, and I'm already betting on 4 more unique fighters and around 6 echoes. It's too early to just give up hope.

I know RandomAce already heard from the general discussion thread, but apparently there's a new rumor from Imran (the same guy who told people not to expect much from E3 outside of Smash) that Verge is actually an alias for six different people who are getting info from multiple sources.

Huge grain of salt because this sounds like a crazy as heck theory you'd see from a obsessive Smash conspiracy theorist, but it sure is interesting. No idea what this means for Lycanroc if it's true, but what are your thoughts?

Sounds crazy enough to be true... unfortunately.

 

[Delzethin]

I have a mixed history with character support, myself.

I first got involved after Brawl was announced, though I didn't spend much time on Smashboards back then, and so talk was limited mostly to the forum I frequented at the time. Ike and Lucario were my two most wanted newcomers back then (though I'd never have owned up to the latter, since I was in high school and you weren't supposed to like Pokémon anymore...unless it was a downloaded ROM of an older game). But while I lucked out with those, there were several more I was pulling for who didn't make the cut. The most notable of them were Mega Man, Geno, K. Rool, and Krystal (though I'd never have owned up to the latter, since Star Fox 64 was a Treasured Childhood Icon and liking anything from Adventures onward was considered sacrilegious).

Fast forward several years to Smash 4, after the point where I left college (though that's...a story for a different day), and my tastes had changed. I had become more neutral on K. Rool and Mega Man (though he was revealed right away, anyway, haha), and my interest in RPGs and fantasy settings had grown further. While I didn't get actively involved at first, I slowly found myself invested once again. This time, my mind was set on a certain tactician whose personal journey had resonated with me during a difficult time of my life...yet it seems like hardly anyone else bothered to give Robin a fair shake, utterly convinced Chrom was the only possible choice. Then the Gematsu Leaks started looming overhead after that E3, and while I started to interact more with the other Robin supporters here, we also found ourselves coming under fire simply for who we supported. For a span of a few weeks, leak zealots had free reign to harass anyone on the "losing" side. It even got to the point where a few staff members were silencing talk in the general threads of characters not mentioned in the leaks.

But then...well, you know by this point. I'll never forget that day, the emotional release, the vindication of seeing such a toxic atmosphere turned peaceful again, all at the hands of a character I had grown so much to care about. Then I even got Shulk out of it a month and a half later!

Yet, there were still other characters I had hoped for who never got the chance. Isaac and Krystal both fell victim to their lack of relevance, and I had grown attached to Sceptile at the time thanks to its return to relevance. And on the competitive side of things, I was only able to watch helplessly as Robin was declared a lost cause from the start, never given a fair chance no matter how many buffs he received...and every time I tried to defy that narrative, every time I tried to point out something overlooked or correct false knowledge, I was met with a mob so convinced they already knew all they needed to know that they were unwilling to listen.

And so, here we are now. Unlike the last two times around, things have been much worse for me so far. From Lycanroc to Geno once more to Rex, Celica, and Isaac, none of my most wanted have been confirmed. And while I've managed to reach some ears with this crazy idea of a character with way more credentials and potential than most speculators have bothered to see, so many more have been unwilling to hear...and now there's a chance they may be right.

Needless to say, I've been feeling a lot of things over these past few months.

As for involvement in speculation, I got a little involved with smash 4, but not nearly as much as I am now. I've had some bad experiences with speculation, like Wolf not being in 4 for some unknown reason, and literally none of my biggest wants ever getting picked over some bottom-of-the-barrel trash like Corrin and Bayonetta (Sorry, but if Sakurai continues to let Bayo be #1 in every tier list without giving other fighters the slightest of chances of victory, then I continue to label her as trash). Also the first character from fates I saw was Azura, and from what I can tell, she is more liked than Corrin, so why did they pick the latter when such a unique option appeared?

Careful with such snap judgments. Just because you don't personally like a character doesn't mean they're "bottom of the barrel". I see that term get tossed around far too often in speculation, and it needs to stop. Smash is just as much about rising stars as it is the old guard, which is the reason we're here in this thread in the first place.

For the record, Corrin and Azura are more or less similar in popularity--not that it matters much, since popularity is never the end-all be-all so many speculators treat it as. The difference, I think, is that unlike Robin, Azura actually isn't as major of a protagonist as Corrin is, playing more of a support role during much of the plot. And it's not as if Corrin wasn't unique--people harp on the "anime swordfighter" title without bothering to look past the surface. Over half of Corrin's moveset uses shapeshifting in some way, a thematic idea that Smash had never explored before. Even the Smash Direct where Corrin was revealed emphasized the whole "having the blood of a dragon" thing, and put focus on the ability to transform into one!

And...there isn't a chance in hell that Bayonetta was made deliberately overpowered. Such issues were more a result of oversights like hitboxes being way bigger than they needed to be, et cetera. Remember, just because something seems like it must be true at first glance doesn't mean it is.

So this is weird.

I know RandomAce already heard from the general discussion thread, but apparently there's a new rumor from Imran (the same guy who told people not to expect much from E3 outside of Smash) that Verge is actually an alias for six different people who are getting info from multiple sources.

Huge grain of salt because this sounds like a crazy as heck theory you'd see from a obsessive Smash conspiracy theorist, but it sure is interesting. No idea what this means for Lycanroc if it's true, but what are your thoughts?

Personally, I think it's either a misunderstanding, or a completely false allegation against Verge.

That...yeah, that idea's so out there that I think we need more proof before we can trust it.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

I supported a loooot of characters for base Smash 4 but I don't think I ever got super deep on any of them . For me the motto was "As long as I get a new Mario character I'm good" and that very much happened (Bowser Jr was quite likely my most wanted and his appeal to me only died a bit after Rosalina took "The Mario Slot"

DLC I supported K. Rool, Azura, Inkling and just more Mario characters but Pre-Ultimate I actually began to focus, rallying for Daisy almost exclusively, writing masterposts on her moveset potential and rebutting detractor's arguments. And then she got in.

A bit unexpected and the Echo predicament went a bit in the face of the moveset write-ups but I still felt relief.

I'd still argue Azura could plentiful more to the table than Corrin, who despite the dragon motif still plays like the swordfighter trope and whose most unique tools aren't inheritly linked to his dragon heritage and thus whomst raison d'être affects little beyond a visual level.

 

[Garteam]

So, how many characters do you all think are left? Both unique and echos. I'd say around 5 characters: 3 unique and 2 echoes. The uniques would be: new pokemon, a third party (either rayman, banjo-kazooie or geno), and a nintendo character (either isaac, skull kid or bandana waddle dee). The echoes would just be Ken & Shadow cause they make too much sense.

My personal prediction is also 5:
1. Lycanroc/Gen 7 Pokemon
2. Some sort of Square Enix character (either Geno or Erdrick, it feels a little too close to call only one in my opinion)
3. Bandana Waddle Dee
4. Shadow (Sonic Echo)
5. Ken (Ryu Echo)

So this is weird.

I know RandomAce already heard from the general discussion thread, but apparently there's a new rumor from Imran (the same guy who told people not to expect much from E3 outside of Smash) that Verge is actually an alias for six different people who are getting info from multiple sources.

Huge grain of salt because this sounds like a crazy as heck theory you'd see from a obsessive Smash conspiracy theorist, but it sure is interesting. No idea what this means for Lycanroc if it's true, but what are your thoughts?

Personally, I think it's either a misunderstanding, or a completely false allegation against Verge.

I feel like this completely false (Verge's style of speech is generally too consistent to be a shared account), but it is worth discussing if only for the sake of conversation.

There are generally 2 possible situations for Lycanroc if this is true:

1. The good situation. Too many cooks in the kitchen means it is much easier for misinformation to spread and be changed past the original truth (think telephone). This could include Incineroar, someone could've saw Incineroar in a NPC Role (be it as a Pokeball 'mon, stage element, or even possibly as a boss) and assumed it for him to be playable, which is later spread to the Vergeben group and taken as fact. Alternatively, there could be someone in there who had their source of information cut off, and is now just making things up as they go along, including Incinerorar.

2. The bad situation. Multiple people also means multiple testimonies towards Incineroar's inclusion. It's one thing to have 2 sources telling you Incineroar's in the game, its another to have 20. The margin of error significantly shrinks.

 

[RandomAce]

So this is weird.

I know RandomAce already heard from the general discussion thread, but apparently there's a new rumor from Imran (the same guy who told people not to expect much from E3 outside of Smash) that Verge is actually an alias for six different people who are getting info from multiple sources.

Huge grain of salt because this sounds like a crazy as heck theory you'd see from a obsessive Smash conspiracy theorist, but it sure is interesting. No idea what this means for Lycanroc if it's true, but what are your thoughts?

Personally, I think it's either a misunderstanding, or a completely false allegation against Verge.

I think Imram might be right in the sense that he is referring to the different games “Vergeben” has leaked with varying in different levels of success.

Did well with Injustice 2
Is a laughing stock for DBFZ
Is mixed with SCVI
Clean with Smash so far

It’s possible that those are different people with different sources. And also why the Vergeben we have has been more of a douch.

 

[Garteam]

I think Imram might be right in the sense that he is referring to the different games “Vergeben” has leaked with varying in different levels of success.

Did well with Injustice 2
Is a laughing stock for DBFZ
Is mixed with SCVI
Clean with Smash so far

It’s possible that those are different people with different sources. And also why the Vergeben we have has been more of a douch.

To be fair, he actually did quite well with DBFZ, he was only wrong about Goku Black being in the base roster and Raditz and Zarbon being playable

If you want to talk about laughing stock, look at his record for MvCI. He's leaked around 20ish candidates for DLC, none of them were added, and he's called the game's revival at least 3 times now.

 

[RandomAce]

To be fair, he actually did quite well with DBFZ, he was only wrong about Goku Black being in the base roster and Raditz and Zarbon being playable

If you want to talk about laughing stock, look at his record for MvCI. He's leaked around 20ish candidates for DLC, none of them were added, and he's called the game's revival at least 3 times now.

Well he’s gotten a lot of things wrong with DBFZ. He said that Super characters weren’t going to be in the base game with Beerus and Hit being DLC and apparently backtracked on a lot of things. The DBFZ community doesn’t see him as reliable with the abundance of things “he’s” been wrong about, most people tune into to the datamine leaks.

I forgot about MVCI, I’ve heard that leaked up to 4 seasons of planned characters. Which, I doubt was planned that far ahead, the only thing that so far on his radar that seems to be the most reliable is that season 2 DLC production was probably halted.

 

[DeltaSceptile]

Over half of Corrin's moveset uses shapeshifting in some way, a thematic idea that Smash had never explored before.

Except people are looking at the fact that Corrin plays similarly to Marth with the floatiness of Pit. None of shapeshifting makes the character have a unique enough movement style for me to enjoy it. I would've loved a dancer, a lancer, or even an axe user. That's why Corrin felt like a big letdown.

 

[Cosmic77]

Visually, Corrin looks like a really unique character thanks to his transformation abilities. Once you actually use him though, you realize he's a huge step backwards from Robin. I'll give Sakurai credit for making Corrin less of a "swing sword this way, swing sword that way" swordfighter, but I don't think think he was an appropriate choice for DLC. Might've been better for Sakurai to let Fates age a little more before choosing a character to add in Ultimate.


Anyways, back to the topic of Lycanroc, I'm gonna bring up DLC again. How likely do you think Lycanroc would be if none of the Gen VII Pokemon make the base roster? Personally, I'm worried. Decidueye would be back in the spotlight since popularity would actually be a factor this time, and Gen VIII would be right around the corner.

 

[MacDaddyNook]

Visually, Corrin looks like a really unique character thanks to his transformation abilities. Once you actually use him though, you realize he's a huge step backwards from Robin. I'll give Sakurai credit for making Corrin less of a "swing sword this way, swing sword that way" swordfighter, but I don't think think he was an appropriate choice for DLC. Might've been better for Sakurai to let Fates age a little more before choosing a character to add in Ultimate.


Anyways, back to the topic of Lycanroc, I'm gonna bring up DLC again. How likely do you think Lycanroc would be if none of the Gen VII Pokemon make the base roster? Personally, I'm worried. Decidueye would be back in the spotlight since popularity would actually be a factor this time, and Gen VIII would be right around the corner.

I still think Lycanroc would beat out Decidueye. It's prominence in the show and unique additional form has boosted its popularity enough to keep it a strong contender. Out of Gen 7, I'd say it and Incineroar still have the best chance due to the focus they get directly from Game Freak but Gen 8 could possibly be a concern if they start announcing and hyping the Pokemon for it early in the DLC period.

Also, I actually never bought Corrin, so I know nothing about how he plays. He'll be like a newcomer for me.

 

[SupriceSupplies]

Visually, Corrin looks like a really unique character thanks to his transformation abilities. Once you actually use him though, you realize he's a huge step backwards from Robin. I'll give Sakurai credit for making Corrin less of a "swing sword this way, swing sword that way" swordfighter, but I don't think think he was an appropriate choice for DLC. Might've been better for Sakurai to let Fates age a little more before choosing a character to add in Ultimate.


Anyways, back to the topic of Lycanroc, I'm gonna bring up DLC again. How likely do you think Lycanroc would be if none of the Gen VII Pokemon make the base roster? Personally, I'm worried. Decidueye would be back in the spotlight since popularity would actually be a factor this time, and Gen VIII would be right around the corner.

So far, none of my initial thoughts on Pokémon related DLC have changed all that much. If Sakurai continues to look at the general public's opinion, then I do think Decidueye has a decent shot of getting in. That being said, after a certain someone's claims, his supporters haven't really been as vocal anymore (atleast over here, I dunno how it is in Japan), which might also hinder his chances if he's looking at popularity only right around now or after launch as the game's close to going gold, if it hasn't already. That being said, if he's going with his traditional route of seeing which Pokémon is being promoted, then I'd still say Lycanroc has a very good shot, probably even the best out of all gen 7 Pokémon.

...But I can't say I'm really optimistic of a Gen 7 Pokémon getting in DLC if none is in the base game, as I personally feel one would have to be announced before Gen 8's reveal, which I'm guessing is going to happen around March. This would mean that a Gen 7 Pokémon would have to be one of the first DLC characters to be revealed, assuming I'm right about all this. It's definitely a possibility, but I feel like characters such as Rex and Pyra have greater chances in that regard.

 

[MacDaddyNook]

So far, none of my initial thoughts on Pokémon related DLC have changed all that much. If Sakurai continues to look at the general public's opinion, then I do think Decidueye has a decent shot of getting in. That being said, after a certain someone's claims, his supporters haven't really been as vocal anymore (atleast over here, I dunno how it is in Japan), which might also hinder his chances if he's looking at popularity only right around now or after launch as the game's close to going gold, if it hasn't already. That being said, if he's going with his traditional route of seeing which Pokémon is being promoted, then I'd still say Lycanroc has a very good shot, probably even the best out of all gen 7 Pokémon.

...But I can't say I'm really optimistic of a Gen 7 Pokémon getting in DLC if none is in the base game, as I personally feel one would have to be announced before Gen 8's reveal, which I'm guessing is going to happen around March. This would mean that a Gen 7 Pokémon would have to be one of the first DLC characters to be revealed, assuming I'm right about all this. It's definitely a possibility, but I feel like characters such as Rex and Pyra have greater chances in that regard.

If Pokemon is good at anything, it's selling its product so having a character from it as paid DLC would be smart business. I'm certain we would get a DLC character from the biggest media franchise in the world, especially in the unlikely event we don't get a character in the base game, very early on, Nintendo would be crazy not to capitalize on it.

 

[SupriceSupplies]

If Pokemon is good at anything, it's selling its product so having a character from it as paid DLC would be smart business. I'm certain we would get a DLC character from the biggest media franchise in the world, especially in the unlikely event we don't get a character in the base game, very early on, Nintendo would be crazy not to capitalize on it.

That's a fair enough point, I just have to wonder if they're going for gen 7 while it's still going, or if they're going for gen 8 once it becomes the talk of the town. Both is also possible, I suppose, but I recall Sakurai hesitating with Corrin due to the amount of FE characters, and I have to wonder where he might draw the line, as, in this hypothetical situation where both happens, 11 is quite a big number, even for a franchise as big as Pokémon.

 

[DeltaSceptile]

I have to wonder where he might draw the line, as, in this hypothetical situation where both happens, 11 is quite a big number, even for a franchise as big as Pokémon.

Not even close. There's over 800 to choose from, so I doubt he would hesitate with so much potential to draw from.

 

[Garteam]

I don't think DLC is an option for any Gen 7 'mon. Smash Ultimate comes out in December, and new Gens are formally revealed in January. Assuming DLC isn't chosen before the game goes golden like for Smash 4, then there's no way any Gen 7 Pokemon will be DLC when all the attention will be on Gen 8 during the DLC period.

 

[RandomAce]

Well, there may be a chance if anything.

During Sakurai’s recent famitsu column (Around early September) Sakurai mentions that they are very close to finishing the game. So at this point, I think the game is currently finished with just polishing, bug fixes being done to the main game, because of this, I think it’s very likely that Sakurai is already looking at which characters to choose for DLC at this point. Rex and Pyra are most likely the first ones that are being planned right now.

What I’m going with this is that if there isn’t a Gen 7 newcomer for the base game, he could be very well be looking to include a Gen 7 Pokémon to add as DLC seeing how Gen 7 is still going pretty strong right now. And if we’ve seen anything so far, Lycanroc is at the top being this generation’s signature Pokémon and we’d become one of the, if not, the most likeliest Gen 7 pokemon to get included.

Of course, this is all just speculation, it’s still possible that we can get one for the base game based on what we’ve seen, both official and “leaked”. But seeing how the Lycanroc line was still planned to be big from the start, is still going strong, is recieved well in the way TPC and GameFreak could’ve hoped, and with what Lycanroc can bring, I’d say that we still have a good shot for the base game too.

 

[MacDaddyNook]

I don't think DLC is an option for any Gen 7 'mon. Smash Ultimate comes out in December, and new Gens are formally revealed in January. Assuming DLC isn't chosen before the game goes golden like for Smash 4, then there's no way any Gen 7 Pokemon will be DLC when all the attention will be on Gen 8 during the DLC period.

I can see them picking a Gen 7 over Gen 8 since it's their big 20th anniversary title and will probably be promoted for a while still. Gen 8 will most-likely come out at the very tail end of next year, so the window of opportunity is still fairly big for current-gen Pokemon.

 

[DeltaSceptile]

Speaking of gen 8, I really hope Mega evolution makes a return starting with the Johto starters. My boy Typhlosion is already a powerhouse full of unique moves, now just imagine what he would be like as a mega.

 

[Delzethin]

If anyone's wondering, that Masked Royal episode came and went. As we suspected, it was just a filler episode focusing on Kukui himself. Seems like the party dynamics will be staying put for a while longer, too, considering the next three are more filler (a Lillie episode based around putting on a school play, a Halloween episode of some kind, and a monster-of-the-week deal featuring an Alolan Golem). The further we go, the increasingly less likely it gets that Ash's Lycanroc loses the ace role, barring something happening out of nowhere with no buildup.

Visually, Corrin looks like a really unique character thanks to his transformation abilities. Once you actually use him though, you realize he's a huge step backwards from Robin. I'll give Sakurai credit for making Corrin less of a "swing sword this way, swing sword that way" swordfighter, but I don't think think he was an appropriate choice for DLC. Might've been better for Sakurai to let Fates age a little more before choosing a character to add in Ultimate.

Well, for what it's worth, Corrin would've been chosen before preliminary talk for Ultimate had ever started. Sure, we know of a new game now, but at the time the situation felt like now-or-never. And it seems that the idea of a character who could turn into a dragon and even transform individual body parts at a time was just too unique to pass up.

Which could work in our favor if it did come down to DLC, since we'd be talking about a character who is both a earthbender and feral quadruped, a double whammy of rare and interesting thematic ideas that Smash hasn't really explored.

Except people are looking at the fact that Corrin plays similarly to Marth with the floatiness of Pit. None of shapeshifting makes the character have a unique enough movement style for me to enjoy it. I would've loved a dancer, a lancer, or even an axe user. That's why Corrin felt like a big letdown.

I have no idea where the floatiness idea came from, because Corrin falls faster than Marth does. We want to keep our facts straight with these kinds of things.

Though I suppose this is another example of how easily hearsay can spread. I've watched plenty of commentators call Robin floaty despite having the same dead-center fall speed and gravity as Mario!

Anyways, back to the topic of Lycanroc, I'm gonna bring up DLC again. How likely do you think Lycanroc would be if none of the Gen VII Pokemon make the base roster? Personally, I'm worried. Decidueye would be back in the spotlight since popularity would actually be a factor this time, and Gen VIII would be right around the corner.

Hard to say, but if no one from Gen 7 makes the base roster, I'd put us at plausible. Gen 8 being a little over a year away doesn't inherently mean the Smash devs would choose to wait, and if they pored over the generation now, Lycanroc would stand out even more. Having a twofer of unique thematic concepts would only add to that.

Not that it'd be acknowledged much. Feel like it's a pretty safe bet that once DLC starts, the crowd will assume they must be planning on sticking in a Gen 8 newcomer months before release to "promote the games", even though that's never actually been a driving force before. We already saw it happen this year before Let's Go was announced, despite all the signs that Gen 8 wasn't going to be a thing this year...

 

[WeirdChillFever]

If anyone's wondering, that Masked Royal episode came and went. As we suspected, it was just a filler episode focusing on Kukui himself. Seems like the party dynamics will be staying put for a while longer, too, considering the next three are more filler (a Lillie episode based around putting on a school play, a Halloween episode of some kind, and a monster-of-the-week deal featuring an Alolan Golem). The further we go, the increasingly less likely it gets that Ash's Lycanroc loses the ace role, barring something happening out of nowhere with no buildup.


Well, for what it's worth, Corrin would've been chosen before preliminary talk for Ultimate had ever started. Sure, we know of a new game now, but at the time the situation felt like now-or-never. And it seems that the idea of a character who could turn into a dragon and even transform individual body parts at a time was just too unique to pass up.

Which could work in our favor if it did come down to DLC, since we'd be talking about a character who is both a earthbender and feral quadruped, a double whammy of rare and interesting thematic ideas that Smash hasn't really explored.


I have no idea where the floatiness idea came from, because Corrin falls faster than Marth does. We want to keep our facts straight with these kinds of things.

Though I suppose this is another example of how easily hearsay can spread. I've watched plenty of commentators call Robin floaty despite having the same dead-center fall speed and gravity as Mario!


Hard to say, but if no one from Gen 7 makes the base roster, I'd put us at plausible. Gen 8 being a little over a year away doesn't inherently mean the Smash devs would choose to wait, and if they pored over the generation now, Lycanroc would stand out even more. Having a twofer of unique thematic concepts would only add to that.

Not that it'd be acknowledged much. Feel like it's a pretty safe bet that once DLC starts, the crowd will assume they must be planning on sticking in a Gen 8 newcomer months before release to "promote the games", even though that's never actually been a driving force before. We already saw it happen this year before Let's Go was announced, despite all the signs that Gen 8 wasn't going to be a thing this year...

To be fair, both Greninja and presumably the Generation VII Pokémon were picked before their respective games launched AND Corrin him/herself was picked due to their game landing in a convenient time frame.

Sure, "Gen VIII Pokémon to advertise the game" is a bit of a hasty generalisation (Corrin's timeframe boon was never stated to be one of advetisement reasons) but one grounded in patterns in the best case and unknowingness on when Gen VIII *actually* releases in the worst case.

Supporters of a Pokémon Newcomer keep a closer eye on signs of life of Generation 8 but I feel like "Gen 8 Pokémon for DLC" isn't the hivermind misinfo bandwagon the way you would make it out to be.

On top of that, Carthage should be destroyed and Azura would've been an overall better choice than Corrin.

 

[DeltaSceptile]

I have no idea where the floatiness idea came from, because Corrin falls faster than Marth does. We want to keep our facts straight with these kinds of things.

Trust me, after SSB4 had online only tourney mode, I've seen my fair share of floaty Corrins after waiting for a whole hour to get into a match. Seriously, Bayo and Corrin being the only entrants every time was really stupid. But yeah, Corrin can get pretty dang floaty sometimes, at least from my experience.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Corin has both abyssal air acceleration and a subpar airspeed, which might explain the floaty association

 

[Cosmic77]

If anyone's wondering, that Masked Royal episode came and went. As we suspected, it was just a filler episode focusing on Kukui himself. Seems like the party dynamics will be staying put for a while longer, too, considering the next three are more filler (a Lillie episode based around putting on a school play, a Halloween episode of some kind, and a monster-of-the-week deal featuring an Alolan Golem). The further we go, the increasingly less likely it gets that Ash's Lycanroc loses the ace role, barring something happening out of nowhere with no buildup.

I'm relieved to see Torracat hasn't evolved yet, but I won't brush it's chances off just yet. We still have about a year left for the Su/Mo anime. A lot can happen in that timespan, believe me.

Regardless, this is reassuring. Torracat/Incineroar just got an episode focusing on them (well, sort of focusing on them) today, so it'll probably be another 10 episodes minimum before we see some type of Masked Royal episode. They're probably done with the fire cats for the rest of the year. Lycanroc on the other hand hasn't gotten an episode for quite some time. Might be seeing another one shortly.

 

[DeltaSceptile]

Lycanroc on the other hand hasn't gotten an episode for quite some time. Might be seeing another one shortly.

Maybe there's a tie-in just waiting to happen... but that's a theory for another day.

 

[Garteam]

I'm relieved to see Torracat hasn't evolved yet, but I won't brush it's chances off just yet. We still have about a year left for the Su/Mo anime. A lot can happen in that timespan, believe me.

Regardless, this is reassuring. Torracat/Incineroar just got an episode focusing on them (well, sort of focusing on them) today, so it'll probably be another 10 episodes minimum before we see some type of Masked Royal episode. They're probably done with the fire cats for the rest of the year. Lycanroc on the other hand hasn't gotten an episode for quite some time. Might be seeing another one shortly.

I decided to do the math to calculate the time frame in which Torracat could evolve. This is going off the assumption that Torracat won't have another episode focusing on him until 2019. We know gen 8 is next year, and we can reasonable assume that it will be on shelves for the Christmas season. Most parents like to get their shopping done earlier in the year than later, so we can assume that a release date of December 13th 2019 as the latest possible date, which provides 49 weeks for Torracat to evolve. This number further shrinks, as we can also reasonable assume that no Pokemon will be evolving during the league. Leagues usually last about 6 episodes, which when subtracted from the 49 episodes throughout the year, leaves 43 episodes at the absolute most for Torracat to evolve.

 

[Delzethin]

I'm relieved to see Torracat hasn't evolved yet, but I won't brush it's chances off just yet. We still have about a year left for the Su/Mo anime. A lot can happen in that timespan, believe me.

Regardless, this is reassuring. Torracat/Incineroar just got an episode focusing on them (well, sort of focusing on them) today, so it'll probably be another 10 episodes minimum before we see some type of Masked Royal episode. They're probably done with the fire cats for the rest of the year. Lycanroc on the other hand hasn't gotten an episode for quite some time. Might be seeing another one shortly.

I decided to do the math to calculate the time frame in which Torracat could evolve. This is going off the assumption that Torracat won't have another episode focusing on him until 2019. We know gen 8 is next year, and we can reasonable assume that it will be on shelves for the Christmas season. Most parents like to get their shopping done earlier in the year than later, so we can assume that a release date of December 13th 2019 as the latest possible date, which provides 49 weeks for Torracat to evolve. This number further shrinks, as we can also reasonable assume that no Pokemon will be evolving during the league. Leagues usually last about 6 episodes, which when subtracted from the 49 episodes throughout the year, leaves 43 episodes at the absolute most for Torracat to evolve.

Technically, I'd imagine the Alola anime will wrap up sooner than that. The Kalos saga's final episode was in early October 2016.

All semantics, though. The point is that we're rapidly reaching a point where Lycanroc's ace role will feasibly be secured. If Ash's Torracat does evolve--which is becoming less of a given the more time passes--it's looking increasingly like it'd merely be a secondary position in the team like we've been saying all along, a Hawlucha kind of role, basically. As long as we still have the spotlight on us, that gives us a potential contingency plan all the way up until the point where Gen 8 hits shelves.

Not that it'd be acknowledged as such, but...

...Eh, look at me, acting the cynic. We could use something less anxious to talk about. Does anyone have anything they think is worth discussing that hasn't been brought up lately?

 

[Cosmic77]

I decided to do the math to calculate the time frame in which Torracat could evolve. This is going off the assumption that Torracat won't have another episode focusing on him until 2019. We know gen 8 is next year, and we can reasonable assume that it will be on shelves for the Christmas season. Most parents like to get their shopping done earlier in the year than later, so we can assume that a release date of December 13th 2019 as the latest possible date, which provides 49 weeks for Torracat to evolve. This number further shrinks, as we can also reasonable assume that no Pokemon will be evolving during the league. Leagues usually last about 6 episodes, which when subtracted from the 49 episodes throughout the year, leaves 43 episodes at the absolute most for Torracat to evolve.

Actually, even 43 might be too generous. The anime rarely reaches 52 episodes in a year; 47-49 is closer to what we get (which I now see you already accounted for in your total, so disregard this). Then, you also have to factor in the break between series, which could be another two or three weeks without episodes.

I didn't do any hard math, but 37-40 might be the most amount of time left for Torracat to evolve. If Incineroar does get in Smash, I'll be rooting for an evolution. Anything in the anime that would justify Incineroar getting in over more unique and more promoted choices would be very appreciated.

 

[RandomAce]

Does anyone have anything they think is worth discussing that hasn't been brought up lately?

I may have one thing.

If Sakurai picked Lycanroc, how do you think he would’ve decided to choose them over the others?

We’ve always talked about the possibilities, but I think one very important thing is to look at it from Sakurai’s angle. Was there anything that intriguing about that may catch his eye. Some of the other candidates like Decidueye and Incineroar have an upper hand being very eye catching withe their designs, but what about Lycanroc can Game Freak show him to influence him to pick them?

I think right now is the perfect time to sum up our points about what Lycanroc has going for them. Delzethin brought up a good point, Corrin brought something that may never be revisited may very well be a reason why he picked Corrin. When IS showed him what Corrin had, Sakurai said it himself, the concept of a shapeshifter was what brought him in the first place. And seeing how FE has a rotating cast, he may have known that this was the only time to include him (and maybe why Elma was sided instead, seeing how X was planned to be a big title for the Wii U). Maybe the same could be said for Lycanroc, what does Lycanroc have that may make Sakurai want to include?

 

[WeirdChillFever]

We could use something less anxious to talk about. Does anyone have anything they think is worth discussing that hasn't been brought up lately?

Okay, here's one.

We often throw around "Earthbending", "Rock-type" as the reason Lycanroc would stand out from the rest of the cast, as his claim to fame.
What do these terms mean in practice? What are moves, mechanics and mindgames that only a Rock-type/Earthbender can provide? In what ways would this typing make him stand out from the cast and define his moveset beyond a visual standpoint? How could it tie in with his presumed bait-and-punish playstyle?

I think it's a fitting thing to talk about. It's a topic of discussion that's entirely disconnected from his chances and the rest of speculation and it's still a way to dive deep into Sakurai's design philosophy.
Plus, some users, including me, recently outed our dissatisfaction with Corrin's moveset for being a visual overlay on the classic swordfighter trope despite the clear potential "Dragon Limbs" seemingly offers.

EDIT: Okay so yeah this is very similar to RandomAce's topic but his is "Hi we're the Lycanroc fanbase and here's why we think Sakurai likes him" and mine is "Hi we're the Lycanroc fanbase and here's why we think you would like him"

 

[Cosmic77]

I may have one thing.

If Sakurai picked Lycanroc, how do you think he would’ve decided to choose them over the others?

We’ve always talked about the possibilities, but I think one very important thing is to look at it from Sakurai’s angle. Was there anything that intriguing about that may catch his eye. Some of the other candidates like Decidueye and Incineroar have an upper hand being very eye catching withe their designs, but what about Lycanroc can Game Freak show him to influence him to pick them?

I think right now is the perfect time to sum up our points about what Lycanroc has going for them. Delzethin brought up a good point, Corrin brought something that may never be revisited may very well be a reason why he picked Corrin. When IS showed him what Corrin had, Sakurai said it himself, the concept of a shapeshifter was what brought him in the first place. And seeing how FE has a rotating cast, he may have known that this was the only time to include him (and maybe why Elma was sided instead, seeing how X was planned to be a big title for the Wii U). Maybe the same could be said for Lycanroc, what does Lycanroc have that may make Sakurai want to include?

I don't think this is answering your question, but when it comes to Pokemon and FE reps, moveset potential isn't always the most important factor when it comes to selecting a character. Take Corrin for example. Yes, Sakurai noted that he was unique, but he also mentioned that the development team really wanted Corrin, so he decided to go along with it since he had chosen so many of the previous newcomers. Without that push from the development team, Corrin may have never gotten in Smash, even with his shapeshifting abilities.

With Pokemon, unique movesets are even less important to Sakurai. My reason behind saying this? Look at who we have on the roster. Mewtwo, Lucario, and Greninja - characters who have all gotten heavy promotion by Game Freak and the Pokemon Company at some point in time. Now I'm not saying any of those aren't unique, but with each Smash, dozens of more unique Pokemon get passed over in favor of these heavily promoted Pokemon. There's a reason for that. It doesn't matter how interesting and unique that Pokemon looks; if they don't have the support and promotion from Game Freak, then Sakurai likely won't feel comfortable adding it. People are already claiming that Greninja is outdated, so imagine how much worse it would be if Sakurai went with Chesnaught or Delphox.

So what does Lycanroc have that would make Sakurai want to include it? The same thing we've been saying. Support from GF, TPC, and the anime. Even if Lycanroc ended up being unpopular, the fact that it was used as one of Ash's most prominent Pokemon makes it far less risky than his other options.

Okay, here's one.

We often throw around "Earthbending", "Rock-type" as the reason Lycanroc would stand out from the rest of the cast, as his claim to fame.
What do these terms mean in practice? What are moves, mechanics and mindgames that only a Rock-type/Earthbender can provide? In what ways would this typing make him stand out from the cast and define his moveset beyond a visual standpoint? How could it tie in with his presumed bait-and-punish playstyle?

I think it's a fitting thing to talk about. It's a topic of discussion that's entirely disconnected from his chances and the rest of speculation and it's still a way to dive deep into Sakurai's design philosophy.
Plus, some users, including me, recently outed our dissatisfaction with Corrin's moveset for being a visual overlay on the classic swordfighter trope despite the clear potential "Dragon Limbs" seemingly offers.

EDIT: Okay so yeah this is very similar to RandomAce's topic but his is "Hi we're the Lycanroc fanbase and here's why we think Sakurai likes him" and mine is "Hi we're the Lycanroc fanbase and here's why we think you would like him"

I'm obviously biased with how I think people should view Lycanroc, but if his detractors could get a glimpse into the future and see what Sakurai would come up with, I'm sure we'd see a lot more people open up to him. Think of Rosalina's detractors not wanting her to get in Smash 4 because they thought she'd be a Peach clone.

But moving on from that, I think any quad character requires some creativity if you wany to make a decent moveset. You're obviously not gonna see any punches or kicks from Lycanroc, so imagine a character with attacks that all have very unique hitboxes. Smash attacks could involve summoning tall stalagmites from the ground that have excellent range and powet, aerial attacks could involve poorly ranged but very powerful bites and claw slashes, and his specials would likely stray from what his bipedal Pokemon friends have, so say goodbye to that overused chargeable projectile move that so many Pokemon seem to share.

If your concern is Lycanroc not having a moveset that's unique enough, I don't think you have to worry.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

I don't think this is answering your question, but when it comes to Pokemon and FE reps, moveset potential isn't always the most important factor when it comes to selecting a character. Take Corrin for example. Yes, Sakurai noted that he was unique, but he also mentioned that the development team really wanted Corrin, so he decided to go along with it since he had chosen so many of the previous newcomers. Without that push from the development team, Corrin may have never gotten in Smash, even with his shapeshifting abilities.

With Pokemon, unique movesets are even less important to Sakurai. My reason behind saying this? Look at who we have on the roster. Mewtwo, Lucario, and Greninja - characters who have all gotten heavy promotion by Game Freak and the Pokemon Company at some point in time. Now I'm not saying any of those aren't unique, but with each Smash, dozens of more unique Pokemon get passed over in favor of these heavily promoted Pokemon. There's a reason for that. It doesn't matter how interesting and unique that Pokemon looks; if they don't have the support and promotion from Game Freak, then Sakurai likely won't feel comfortable adding it. People are already claiming that Greninja is outdated, so imagine how much worse it would be if Sakurai went with Chesnaught or Delphox.

So what does Lycanroc have that would make Sakurai want to include it? The same thing we've been saying. Support from GF, TPC, and the anime. Even if Lycanroc ended up being unpopular, the fact that it was used as one of Ash's most prominent Pokemon makes it far less risky than his other options.



I'm obviously biased with how I think people should view Lycanroc, but if his detractors could get a glimpse into the future and see what Sakurai would come up with, I'm sure we'd see a lot more people open up to him. Think of Rosalina's detractors not wanting her to get in Smash 4 because they thought she'd be a Peach clone.

But moving on from that, I think any quad character requires some creativity if you wany to make a decent moveset. You're obviously not gonna see any punches or kicks from Lycanroc, so imagine a character with attacks that all have very unique hitboxes. Smash attacks could involve summoning tall stalagmites from the ground that have excellent range and powet, aerial attacks could involve poorly ranged but very powerful bites and claw slashes, and his specials would likely stray from what his bipedal Pokemon friends have, so say goodbye to that overused chargeable projectile move that so many Pokemon seem to share.

If your concern is Lycanroc not having a moveset that's unique enough, I don't think you have to worry.

I don't believe that Lycanroc wouldn't have a unique moveset. I just think this thread, now that our regular old promotional counting and anime planning is getting both stale and quite toxic now that leaks are involved, could focus more on the "why would Lycanroc be an enticing pick for the players" instead of keeping circling back on "This is why Sakurai would think he's an enticing pick"

Besides Delzethin 's concept video on him, this thread has seen very little moveset ideas and that while there's a lot to gain if we elaborate on why we think Lycanroc has what it takes to be an enticing pick as much as Decidueye is/was back in the day.

Sure, "he's a rock type and that's unique" is something that's thrown around here occasionally, but it's an underlooked part of Lycanroc's resume and one I think deserves a spotlight. If we can explain that Lycanroc is just a very kickass character in Smash, I think we could gain a lot more followers in this whole "despite the odds war bunker" that Delz makes us out to be in.
If we can distill something mechanically distinct and personal "no-one else can do this even beyond a visual level" from his Rock-type, his quadrupedness and his lore (Like the bait-and punish that gets thrown around) we can have a very fun time and convince those that understandably can't be swayed to care from just a resume despite a leak.
Think of it like RTC. We've gone from hell and back to discuss and evaluate "Chance", now let's discuss how the "Want" scores could add up if we put our minds to it.

I'll think all this later, but rn I gotta bounce. See ya!

 

[Delzethin]

Some very good points here. I'll elaborate on my thoughts later, when I'm not falling asleep where I sit.

For now, it's worth remembering that thematic uniqueness seems to be a very important thing for Sakurai, and understandably so. When the December '15 Smash Direct talked about Corrin, a lot of emphasis was put on Corrin "having the blood of a dragon" and being able to shapeshift. Not every newcomer has to bring new mechanics to the table as long as they do something new or interesting thematically...and that plays into our hands very well.

'Course, we also have the potential for at least two unique mechanics on top of that, but you get the idea.

 

[MasteRMerF]

Dont worry, guys. Lycanroc told me it's getting ready for its reveal

 

[RandomAce]

EDIT: Okay so yeah this is very similar to RandomAce's topic but his is "Hi we're the Lycanroc fanbase and here's why we think Sakurai likes him" and mine is "Hi we're the Lycanroc fanbase and here's why we think you would like him"

I don’t think it wouldn’t be out of possibility to show proof for both at once.

I do agree though, if we want more people to get interested in Lycanroc, then yeah, we need to show something that may make people interested in Lycanroc outside of our circle. They’re designs may be a bit more tame there’s lots to do with them, which brings me to another point.

As for moveset concepts, I always had a lot in mind, but I felt that it may be a bit redundant to post any. But I could post some to give ideas on how the earth concept can be done with Lycanroc, there are lot of interesting ways to go about both fundamentally and thematically that I wanted to discuss.

Dont worry, guys. Lycanroc told me it's getting ready for its reveal View attachment 170025

After weeks of no news in sight,

I needed this.

 

[KingTorra]

Dont worry, guys. Lycanroc told me it's getting ready for its reveal View attachment 170025

Damn, I may sadly be on the "opposing" side of this discussion, but that's the cutest thing i've seen this week. Keep bein adorable Lycanroc

 

[Delzethin]

Okay, allow me to double back to Sunday's question:

I may have one thing.

If Sakurai picked Lycanroc, how do you think he would’ve decided to choose them over the others?

We’ve always talked about the possibilities, but I think one very important thing is to look at it from Sakurai’s angle. Was there anything that intriguing about that may catch his eye. Some of the other candidates like Decidueye and Incineroar have an upper hand being very eye catching withe their designs, but what about Lycanroc can Game Freak show him to influence him to pick them?

I think right now is the perfect time to sum up our points about what Lycanroc has going for them. Delzethin brought up a good point, Corrin brought something that may never be revisited may very well be a reason why he picked Corrin. When IS showed him what Corrin had, Sakurai said it himself, the concept of a shapeshifter was what brought him in the first place. And seeing how FE has a rotating cast, he may have known that this was the only time to include him (and maybe why Elma was sided instead, seeing how X was planned to be a big title for the Wii U). Maybe the same could be said for Lycanroc, what does Lycanroc have that may make Sakurai want to include?

As it stands, Lycanroc has a lot of stuff going for it, and the way they all compound each other only accentuates it.

We may take the whole earthbender angle for granted, but it's not only a major part of Lycanroc's identity, it also goes toward being such a unique choice. Smash has never had a character with a focus on earth-based attacks before, and with Rock Smash gone from Charizard's moveset, we don't have a single move that uses the element (unless you count moves with burying effects, but that's hard to do when it includes stuff like ZSS' flip kick). Now that doesn't mean we need to "represent" the earth element or need something to fill that quota, but it does mean that a character based around geokinesis would be doing something that no current fighter has done. And with a gigantic roster that just keeps growing, that kind of uniqueness can be really interesting.

But Lycanroc has more than just that, or at least the Midday and Dusk forms do. Feral characters and quadrupeds show up every now and then in fighting games, and to varying degrees--Kuma in Tekken touches on it a little, Suicune in Pokkén is the game's only quadrupedal fighter, and Amaterasu takes the concept and runs with it in MvC3. But that's another thing that Smash hasn't truly tapped into--Ivysaur relies on prehensile vines and the flower on its back for everything other than its dash attack, and the Duck Hunt dog is basically a Looney Tunes character with all the wackiness that entails, and even then relies on the duck or on pulling stuff out of hammerspace for most attacks. Again, while that doesn't mean we need to stick a feral character in just to say we have one, it does mean that one who is already an option becomes that stronger of a choice.

A lot of characters have one big thing that could make them unique. Some don't have any, yet are still talked about a lot. Yet Lycanroc has at least two just from surface-level traits alone. And there's something really interesting to it, this idea that on a roster of all stars and rising stars and so many different backgrounds, there could be the option to play as literally a wolf...who also has earth powers.

...And also even more unique stuff on top of that. Not every character needs a gimmick--case in point, my newest Challenger Approaching video is for a character whose concept didn't need one. You never want to force a gimmick, and you especially don't want to cram one in just to redeem a concept that wouldn't feel unique otherwise, but if there's something that feels like a natural extension of the character's abilities, then it can make them even more interesting. Like how Link can use his shield to block projectiles when he stands or walks, or how Peach can float in midair just like in Super Mario Bros. 2, or how Mega Man's buster comprises his jab, forward tilt, and neutral air, and can seamlessly transition between any of them. And that's another thing that makes Lycanroc even more unique: multiple potential gimmicks that could work depending on what Sakurai and the Smash team felt would make for the most interesting character concept. Would they use the Dusk form's berserk state as some kind of temporary or situational buff? Or how about incorporating multiple forms into the moveset somehow, to emphasize how they are all parts of a greater whole? The fact that we not only have the option for a gimmick, but also more than one to choose from, takes an already unique character and cranks that uniqueness up even further.

All of this for a character who has become a face of the 7th Generation, with promotions and merchandise in levels that outpace even the starters save Rowlet, a giveaway at USUM's launch that basically made it a second starter, and lest we forget, the lead role in the anime for this generation just like Greninja before it.

And also that strangely timed tweet. It must say something that they were willing to do a shout out like that for a form that you technically can't even obtain right now without having someone breed you another.

Most, or all of this, would have been planned out far enough in advance that Sakurai would almost surely have been made aware of it. A character who hadn't yet been revealed to the public, but had grand plans in store for it, just like with Greninja. Prominent enough to be an option to add to Smash, and then its unusual build that Smash hasn't truly explored yet, elemental affinity that Smash has never done anything of note with, and even multiple potential gimmicks to choose from could all come together to create...well, a rock solid choice.

...Did I just improvise a five paragraph essay?

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Okay, allow me to double back to Sunday's question:


As it stands, Lycanroc has a lot of stuff going for it, and the way they all compound each other only accentuates it.

It's definitely a package deal and that's what movesets should be. All parts working in unison to create a whole
We may take the whole earthbender angle for granted, but it's not only a major part of Lycanroc's identity, it also goes toward being such a unique choice. Smash has never had a character with a focus on earth-based attacks before, and with Rock Smash gone from Charizard's moveset, we don't have a single move that uses the element (unless you count moves with burying effects, but that's hard to do when it includes stuff like ZSS' flip kick). Now that doesn't mean we need to "represent" the earth element or need something to fill that quota, but it does mean that a character based around geokinesis would be doing something that no current fighter has done. And with a gigantic roster that just keeps growing, that kind of uniqueness can be really interesting.

And unlike grass, the rock-type can be included in ways that affect gameplay. I'm not talking about it being able to be used in a "gimmick", but the rock-type can bring intrisic gameplay value that is exclusive to geokinesis.
Terraforming, while also being thrown around as a potential playstyle for Steve, also ties into Lycanroc's "territorial" habits. His Smashes, for example, could be a lingering hitbox to block fighters from speeding through. His Specials could also form walls, either directly around him but also a bit Luma Warp-ishly a distance away from him.

Splintered Stormshards could even be a Special instead of a Final Smash, where he can throw rocks towards the opponent. He could also create platforms to lift himself up and make his territory his own. (Think of how Scar moves in "Be Prepared")

These moves would all be based on the ground. Not that Lycanroc couldn't perform these moves in the air, but they'd all be pulled from the ground directly below him.
This way, Lycanroc's type feels less like a checklisty thing but it also goes hand in hand with what his movesets wants to achieve.
Compare this to Greninja and Ivysaur, whose movesets include their respective elemental type in little more than a visual way. (But also compare that to Greninja's Dark-type, whose sneaky and underhanded characteristics are employed in Greninja's core playstyle)

.But Lycanroc has more than just that, or at least the Midday and Dusk forms do. Feral characters and quadrupeds show up every now and then in fighting games, and to varying degrees--Kuma in Tekken touches on it a little, Suicune in Pokkén is the game's only quadrupedal fighter, and Amaterasu takes the concept and runs with it in MvC3. But that's another thing that Smash hasn't truly tapped into--Ivysaur relies on prehensile vines and the flower on its back for everything other than its dash attack, and the Duck Hunt dog is basically a Looney Tunes character with all the wackiness that entails, and even then relies on the duck or on pulling stuff out of hammerspace for most attacks. Again, while that doesn't mean we need to stick a feral character in just to say we have one, it does mean that one who is already an option becomes that stronger of a choice.

Yes, and it allows for new sorts of hitboxes too. Lycanroc's main "limbs" to draw moves from are limited, so he'd have more headbutts, tail swipes and in general more dynamic moves since he can't punch directly forward. He needs to move his entire body in order to throw the weaponisable parts of his body around except for bites and low range headbutts. (Or Geokinesis of course)

A lot of characters have one big thing that could make them unique. Some don't have any, yet are still talked about a lot. Yet Lycanroc has at least two just from surface-level traits alone. And there's something really interesting to it, this idea that on a roster of all stars and rising stars and so many different backgrounds, there could be the option to play as literally a wolf...who also has earth powers.

hah, "surface level" traits, good one.

...And also even more unique stuff on top of that. Not every character needs a gimmick--case in point, my newest Challenger Approaching video is for a character whose concept didn't need one. You never want to force a gimmick, and you especially don't want to cram one in just to redeem a concept that wouldn't feel unique otherwise, but if there's something that feels like a natural extension of the character's abilities, then it can make them even more interesting. Like how Link can use his shield to block projectiles when he stands or walks, or how Peach can float in midair just like in Super Mario Bros. 2, or how Mega Man's buster comprises his jab, forward tilt, and neutral air, and can seamlessly transition between any of them. And that's another thing that makes Lycanroc even more unique: multiple potential gimmicks that could work depending on what Sakurai and the Smash team felt would make for the most interesting character concept. Would they use the Dusk form's berserk state as some kind of temporary or situational buff? Or how about incorporating multiple forms into the moveset somehow, to emphasize how they are all parts of a greater whole? The fact that we not only have the option for a gimmick, but also more than one to choose from, takes an already unique character and cranks that uniqueness up even further.

There aren't even that many gimmicks, especially not in Smash Ultimate's newcomers. Heck, King K. Rool of all characters has a Down B Counter move. It's also hard to define what constitutes as a "gimmick". Some would argue Luma is a "gimmick".
Anyway, Ultimate seems to tone down on the gimmicks and none of the popular picks in the fanbase have a "gimmick" (Maybe Ridley's Pre-Smash 4 "Air Grab", but even moveset megaton K. Rool didn't have a gimmick in the hivemind moveset of the fanbase. Lycanroc doesn't have a signature ability that needs to be layered over the general themes he brings.


All of this for a character who has become a face of the 7th Generation, with promotions and merchandise in levels that outpace even the starters save Rowlet, a giveaway at USUM's launch that basically made it a second starter, and lest we forget, the lead role in the anime for this generation just like Greninja before it.

And also that strangely timed tweet. It must say something that they were willing to do a shout out like that for a form that you technically can't even obtain right now without having someone breed you another.

Most, or all of this, would have been planned out far enough in advance that Sakurai would almost surely have been made aware of it. A character who hadn't yet been revealed to the public, but had grand plans in store for it, just like with Greninja. Prominent enough to be an option to add to Smash, and then its unusual build that Smash hasn't truly explored yet, elemental affinity that Smash has never done anything of note with, and even multiple potential gimmicks to choose from could all come together to create...well, a rock solid choice.

...Did I just improvise a five paragraph essay?

Replies in blood.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Hey, can i support? Lycanroc's pretty cool imo...