Day, Night, and Dusk - Lycanroc for Smash Bros. Ultimate

[Garteam]

I was thinking Marill and Togepi because the two were heavily featured in pre-gen 2 media.

I think those two would work well, but they feel like an awkward match-up. It feels like Marill is very clearly of the two.

Granted, I also felt that way about Pikachu and Eevee, but they could always give Togepi some exclusive moves and other buffs to make the choice feel a little more balanced.

Also, we're a quarter of the way to 100, not bad.

 

[RandomAce]

I suppose that would be a better choice. Admittedly, it's been awhile since I picked up Gen 2.

Maybe Let's Go Pichu and Let's Go Togepi to have 2 baby 'mons?


I suppose this is a real possibility. I still don't think Isaac in the game (ballot is the only thing he really has going for him, and even then he didn't do as well as many people claimed he has), but if he is, then there could be a chance that Sakurai wouldn't want to double dip thematically with two geomancing newcomers.

Although, this scenario would not answer any of the questions surrounding Incineroar's possible inclusion. If Sakurai was really so concerned with having two earth users, then why would he green light another grab-based character with a fire aesthetic? Also, wouldn't K. Rool using wrestling moves put Incineroar into a situation similar to Lycanroc in this scenario? At least with Decidueye you could argue that we have no characters with Ghost-powers yet, and botanokinesis and archery are relatively underused in the roster.

I would have to agree with this. If Incineroar does get in, I do want to know his thought process on why he was chosen after all. I don’t think that would be a problem since the fact that there are a ton of fire users, having two earth users after last time’s 0 while both can be distinct really isn’t much of a problem.

BluePikmin11 I suppose that it is a possibility. Delz could probably put it in words a little better than I do, but is one sheet of reference really enough to base an entire moveset on? Not to mention the fact that Lycanroc is one of Gen 7’s signature mons, and how important Lycanroc’s core concept is to their design, I would wager that TPC may have provided a lot more information like lore, typing, signature moves, etc. to Sakurai along with the concept art to help him decide on a newcomer. The concept art only is really supposed to showcase how the Pokémon looks like and their basic traits after all, and Sakurai is usually known to look at these type of things more deeply. This would be even more likely if they were decided later on, since that is when the game would be more finalized. Not to mention, that Ultimate’s final project plan would be around the same year as Sun and Moon’s release and reveal.

It seems as if you’ve been a lot more pessimistic recently. I know, things are looking less likely for us because of Vergeben and all of that, so I understand that. I even agree that we should at least be wary that Lycanroc may not get in since it’s clearly a possibility.

But, there is still a lot of evidence and recent events in our favor since the start, so let’s at least be cautiously optimistic for who we support. We may have lost the battle, but we didn’t lose the war.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I have been on the same extremely pessimistic level ever since Vergeben confirmed Incineroar with his of three main sources.

I am just expanding more on the possibilities of why Lycanroc possibly did not get in.

 

[DeltaSceptile]

Oh, and the removal of HMs as long as the HM Moves themselves aren't removed is in absolutely no conceivable manner a bad thing.

As a hardcore fan who actually enjoyed having HMs and using them in strategic ways, I’ll have you know the removal of HMs is a bad idea.

Another quiet night.

Alright, another question: What one thing are you most hoping to see from next year's Pokémon games?

Besides more Lycanroc-related stuff. That's a given, heh.

I personally hope to see more catchable Pokémon out of the total amount, as sun and moon kind of lacked in that regard. I also want the return of walking with pokemon in a MAINLINE Pokémon game. The last thing I want to see is the ability to catch mythical pokes because I’ve always hated how I could never get any because of being restricted to events I didn’t have time for. Those gaps in my OR Pokédex haunt me to this day.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Something new I wanna discuss:

One thing to consider for Pokemon newcomers is that these additions come later in the project plan.

There might be newcomers decided before that would have made deciding on a certain 7th generation Pokemon difficult to implement distinctly for Sakurai.

Like if Steve was decided first and had a play-style based on crafting, it would have been harder to create a completely unique play-style for Isabelle that would not revolve around her public work project, thus relegating her to a semi-clone, assuming she was decided later than Steve.

Or if in the unlikely scenario Isaac got decided upon first, Lycanroc would have been a choice seen as redundant due to his play-style sticking to earth-based powers.

I am just thinking outside the box for possible reasons for Lycanroc's exclusion. The possible reasons for exclusion might go beyond just the Pokemon corner.

I think it's much more believable that TPC did a poor job selling Lycanroc to Sakurai, with the less-than-spectacular concept art being part of that theory.
I'd rather believe that than believing that even Sakurai thinks of moveset potential as "what visual element does it bring?" and going ride or die based on the color and shape of some hitboxes instead of considering preferred win condition, playstyle, range etc alongside with it.

So I prefer that as my conspiracy theory on why Our Only Valid Choice mysteriously didn't get in.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Off-topic, but what do you guys think of the new Japanese S&M anime opening? Do you guys like it?

 

[Delzethin]

Actually, if you don’t mind me asking (since it seems that you’re the one asking the questions). Since this is the Lycanroc thread...

1. What changes/new things do you think Game Freak might do to Lycanroc in Gen 8?

2. What changes/new things do you want Game Freak do to Lycanroc in Gen 8?

1. Probably just some minor touch ups. A slightly expanded movepool with a few more notable moves once we get full access to move tutors, and potentially streamlining Midday and Midnight's evolution method to merely require a certain time of day and not a specific game version.

2. Ideally, something that keeps us relevant, as a failsafe in case we're forced to rely on DLC. Would be nice if there were still plans for those two remaining placeholders, especially if one was for some kind of ultimate form that the others could take with the help of a special item or the like. Another best case scenario would be picking up Light as a secondary type, as it'd actually be fairly plausible of a typing if such a thing were added in Gen 8, and being the only Rock/Light types in the series would help all three forms stand out further.

Something new I wanna discuss:

One thing to consider for Pokemon newcomers is that these additions come later in the project plan.

There might be newcomers decided before that would have made deciding on a certain 7th generation Pokemon difficult to implement distinctly for Sakurai.

Like if Steve was decided first and had a play-style based on crafting, it would have been harder to create a completely unique play-style for Isabelle that would not revolve around her public work project, thus relegating her to a semi-clone, assuming she was decided later than Steve.

Or if in the unlikely scenario Isaac got decided upon first, Lycanroc would have been a choice seen as redundant due to his play-style sticking to earth-based powers.

I am just thinking outside the box for possible reasons for Lycanroc's exclusion. The possible reasons for exclusion might go beyond just the Pokemon corner.

I'm not sure we've seen a situation like that, honestly. But if it were to happen, isn't it only fair to apply it to our competition as well? If, like you said, they chose a Pokémon newcomer later than the others, then it'd be a hard sell to choose another big body when two notable ones were coming already, another primary fire user when there're more present on the roster than you can count on one hand, another wrestler when wrestling moves are already a core part of several movesets (DK even has a lariat!) and a major newcomer is among them (K. Rool even has a back breaker for his up throw!), and--based on the recurring talk--a grappler when we actually already have a few on the roster, including a very big newcomer who captures the mentality of a classic grappler closer than any character we've seen in Smash yet.

That's many more issues than just having to worry about being a second earthbender. And Isaac isn't even confirmed so far, while Ridley and K. Rool have been emphasized like crazy. And if it came down to it, Lycanroc could still feel unique alongside Isaac, since the two utilize earth in different ways. If we can have more fire users than, well, you can count on one hand, then two earth users who do different things with it couldn't be a deal breaker...right?

Or at least it'd be a damn shame if it was, and we fell victim to a double standard.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

based on the recurring talk--a grappler when we actually already have a few on the roster, including a very big newcomer who captures the mentality of a classic grappler closer than any character we've seen in Smash yet.

This probably doesn't really matter much, but I always thought Donkey Kong seemed to be like the Zangief of Smash 64, since his most unique aspect is his throws, particularly with his Cargo Throw. If Incineroar were to be playable, he could be like the King of Smash. For context, King is a wrestling character from Tekken who is known for having grabs that link into other grabs.

 

[Garteam]

Off-topic, but what do you guys think of the new Japanese S&M anime opening? Do you guys like it?

I think it's really cool and well done. The focus on Ash's progress thus far is nice.

But here's a major takeaway from this opening: I don't think Torracat will be evolving into Incineroar, at least, not until the we get another opening.

The staging of Torracat in this video simply wouldn't work with Incineroar's bipedal proportions. During the shot of Ash and his team walking, there's a very clear symmetry going, Rotom and Rowlet at the top, Lycanroc and Torracat at the bottom. If Incineroar were to evolve, not only would this symmetry be ruined, but Incineroar's height would push Rowlet out of the frame. Granted, they could just replace that scene with a new one as the season goes on (perhaps one with Incineroar and Eevee)

However, the battling scene is a death sentence. Not only is Torracat's style of striking very horizontal (something that would look awkward to Incineroar), but he's fighting an Incineroar! I don't think the animators would make the decision to have Incineroar as his rival if he was going to evolve, as it would lead to the audience being confused and thinking "Ok... He's fighting himself, I guess?". I think it's much more unlikely they would reanimate this scene, as the amount of fluidity and motion shows there was a ton of time, effort, and money put into that section in particular. To throw it away would be an extremely questionable choice.

This probably doesn't really matter much, but I always thought Donkey Kong seemed to be like the Zangief of Smash 64, since his most unique aspect is his throws, particularly with his Cargo Throw. If Incineroar were to be playable, he could be like the King of Smash. For context, King is a wrestling character from Tekken who is known for having grabs that link into other grabs.

A character who has grabs that link into other grabs... Oh no

 

[RandomAce]

Off-topic, but what do you guys think of the new Japanese S&M anime opening? Do you guys like it?

I think it’s best so far, so energetic and flashy.

What’s interesting here is how they help further cement that Lycanroc will still have a big presence in the show. Not only that but...

It looks like Midnight Lycanroc is going to rival Dusk Lycanroc. Meaning that there are going to be arcs between two Lycanrocs. So, at least we’re still going to have a big role in the anime, not to mention how Lycanroc is still staged up to be one of or still be Ash’s signature Pokémon.

And I was also right that none of the other Pokémon are going to take over another and have their seperate arcs. It seems that Rowlet might be here just to be the gag character anymore and is going to rival Hau’s Dartrix going forward and Torrocat seems to be rivaling Kukui’s Incineroar. All of these Pokémon have their seperate arcs and rivalries, they’re not taking over one another like people are making them out to be.

It’s a little interesting seeing how the three biggest lines seem to be getting more larger roles. But at least for us, Lycanroc has the most development thus far and seems to still be standing this time as well with Midnight joining in on the action too.

 

[Luigifan18]

A character who has grabs that link into other grabs... Oh no

Ahahahaha... if Incineroar has built-in wobbling, he's gonna provoke as much controversy as Brawl Meta Knight. Screencap this if you please.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Ahahahaha... if Incineroar has built-in wobbling.

I don't think we're gonna get something like that after the controversy surrounding Bayonetta.

 

[RandomAce]

I don't think we're gonna get something like that after the controversy surrounding Bayonetta.

We all thought that we escaped from their grab for good.

But they came back, but worse... they're official.

 

[Delzethin]

This probably doesn't really matter much, but I always thought Donkey Kong seemed to be like the Zangief of Smash 64, since his most unique aspect is his throws, particularly with his Cargo Throw. If Incineroar were to be playable, he could be like the King of Smash. For context, King is a wrestling character from Tekken who is known for having grabs that link into other grabs.

Thing is, playstyles don't make perfect 1:1 transitions between traditional fighters and Smash (or other platform fighters). The different mechanics and styles of movement warrant different interpretations. This holds especially true with the grappler archetype, because while characters in traditional fighters usually have only one or two basic throws, everyone in Smash has four throws from the get go, and they all often have different uses. Characters like Luigi, DK, Smash 4 Bowser, etc. fit many of the trappings of the grappler style despite not relying on having a ton of command grabs because they don't need them! And it also frees up more of their specials to do different things that help keep their movesets from feeling too one-note.

However, it's not just about having a moveset built around using a lot of grabs and throws. There's a mentality to a grappler playstyle, with the way they have one or two moves that are big threats that their opponents have to always be afraid of. Then they use that threat, and the knowledge that their opponent will be trying to avoid it, to their advantage...along with other tools up close that tend to be powerful and pressure-heavy. What are you always afraid of against DK? Getting cargo thrown. What about Luigi? "Don't get grabbed" is more than just a meme against him. He even has fear-inducing options with his Fire Jump Punch and Green Missile misfires! And his Cyclone in Smash 4, but that wasn't really...intentional.

But the character who most embodies both the style and mindset of a grappler, in as true an interpretation as can be done within the context of a platform fighter, is one we just got. Ridley is all about exploiting the fear of the sheer strength of certain options--including his command grab--then using that fear alongside disjointed spacing tools to create pressure. He even has a combo throw!

That's what I think a lot of people are overlooking. Acting like a grappler must have their moveset be exactly like Zangief's would be like assuming every fast character must want to rush opponents down (Falcon sure doesn't; he's the bait-and-punish character in Smash) or that every character with mulitple projectiles must want to sit back at long range and camp (Link would rather use his bombs and boomerang to confirm into big hits, and Robin wants to fight at midrange and push opponents back). It's an over-generalization that dismisses the grappler characters we do have just because they aren't a 1:1 literal translation of the style from a different genre of fighting game.

To say no less of how Incineroar's actual moveset in the Pokémon games isn't even grab-heavy to begin with. Which just makes it seem more like people are trying to force an archetype and gimmick onto a character instead of looking for something that feels like a natural extension of their canon abilities. It's as if they want to pay lip service to the idea of a grappler exactly as they look in traditional fighters...and as we know, Sakurai isn't one to choose newcomers just for the sake of filling a quota.

That's why the idea doesn't line up. Especially since having grabs that combo into each other would be impossible with the current mechanics making it so a character cannot be grabbed for a full second after being thrown, which was added into Smash 4 to prevent chaingrabs. Removing that just for one character is asking for a balancing nightmare, not to mention a mountain of toxicity among players.

I think it's really cool and well done. The focus on Ash's progress thus far is nice.

But here's a major takeaway from this opening: I don't think Torracat will be evolving into Incineroar, at least, not until the we get another opening.

The staging of Torracat in this video simply wouldn't work with Incineroar's bipedal proportions. During the shot of Ash and his team walking, there's a very clear symmetry going, Rotom and Rowlet at the top, Lycanroc and Torracat at the bottom. If Incineroar were to evolve, not only would this symmetry be ruined, but Incineroar's height would push Rowlet out of the frame. Granted, they could just replace that scene with a new one as the season goes on (perhaps one with Incineroar and Eevee)

However, the battling scene is a death sentence. Not only is Torracat's style of striking very horizontal (something that would look awkward to Incineroar), but he's fighting an Incineroar! I don't think the animators would make the decision to have Incineroar as his rival if he was going to evolve, as it would lead to the audience being confused and thinking "Ok... He's fighting himself, I guess?". I think it's much more unlikely they would reanimate this scene, as the amount of fluidity and motion shows there was a ton of time, effort, and money put into that section in particular. To throw it away would be an extremely questionable choice.

Those are actually some very good points. Based on the setup, it really does seem like Ash's Torracat will not be evolving for at least the foreseeable future.

How often does the anime change openings? Would this be the second last opening for the Alola saga, or possibly the last? At the very least, it'd carry us well past the point where Ash's then-Frogadier evolved in the Kalos saga, killing that argument too.

 

[Deleted member]

Lycanroc still has a chance, will believe in it till the end.

 

[Cosmic77]

Those are actually some very good points. Based on the setup, it really does seem like Ash's Torracat will not be evolving for at least the foreseeable future.

How often does the anime change openings? Would this be the second last opening for the Alola saga, or possibly the last? At the very least, it'd carry us well past the point where Ash's then-Frogadier evolved in the Kalos saga, killing that argument too.

Depends on how long the arc is intended to last. In BW, there was a special opening and ending for a small 13 episode Team Plasma arc. Obviously, this current arc seems to be much longer than that.

Normally, the team just tweaks the opening whenever a Pokemon evolves. However, seeing how much special animation each individual Pokemon has, I don't think we'll be seeing anyone evolve for quite a while. Can't imagine why the team would bother animating so many scenes of Rowlet and Torracat fighting and playing in a brand new intro if there were plans to make them evolve in following episodes.

Taking a guess here, but I don't think any of Ash's Pokemon will evolve until after Ultimate is released.

 

[NintenRob]

I'm assuming you guys have seen the recent anime opening

Lycanroc still seems to outshine who is still Torracat, although I believe Rowlet has more screen time overall

 

[Cosmic77]

I'm assuming you guys have seen the recent anime opening

Lycanroc still seems to outshine who is still Torracat, although I believe Rowlet has more screen time overall

He has a little bit more screentime thanks to the backpack gag.

Either way, I don't think we'll be seeing it evolve into Decidueye anytime soon. The anime opening hints it'll stay a Rowlet for a while longer, and since we have roughly a year before the anime ends, I just don't see a path for Rowlet to evolve twice and suddenly become extremely important to the plot.

As I've said long before, only Lycanroc and Torracat are capable of becoming the next "Greninja" in the foreseeable future. Doubt we'll see Rowlet or any other Pokemon (Eevee?) swoop in and steal the spotlight during the league.

 

[NintenRob]

He has a little bit more screentime thanks to the backpack gag.

Either way, I don't think we'll be seeing it evolve into Decidueye anytime soon. The anime opening hints it'll stay a Rowlet for a while longer, and since we have roughly a year before the anime ends, I just don't see a path for Rowlet to evolve twice and suddenly become extremely important to the plot.

As I've said long before, only Lycanroc and Torracat are capable of becoming the next "Greninja" in the foreseeable future. Doubt we'll see Rowlet or any other Pokemon (Eevee?) swoop in and steal the spotlight during the league.

I didn't mention anything about Rowlet evolving? At this point I must admit Rowlet is probably more likely than Decidueye.

 

[RandomAce]

I'm assuming you guys have seen the recent anime opening

Lycanroc still seems to outshine who is still Torracat, although I believe Rowlet has more screen time overall

Yeah we did a little bit.

For us, Lycanroc is still going to have play a big and may rival Midnight Lycanroc for this season instead of being shelled out like people assumed was going to happen.

 

[Delzethin]

Depends on how long the arc is intended to last. In BW, there was a special opening and ending for a small 13 episode Team Plasma arc. Obviously, this current arc seems to be much longer than that.

Normally, the team just tweaks the opening whenever a Pokemon evolves. However, seeing how much special animation each individual Pokemon has, I don't think we'll be seeing anyone evolve for quite a while. Can't imagine why the team would bother animating so many scenes of Rowlet and Torracat fighting and playing in a brand new intro if there were plans to make them evolve in following episodes.

Taking a guess here, but I don't think any of Ash's Pokemon will evolve until after Ultimate is released.

At least, it seems that everyone's staying put for the time being. Which is notable, since Ash got his Greninja right around three years ago. One fan theory that's been passed around ad nauseum as if it were already predestined was that Ash's Torracat was going to evolve in the same timeframe and "take its rightful place" as the lead 'mon for Alola. Except now it's looking like the chance of anyone evolving further for the next couple months is low, and any evolutions next year will be so close to the end of the Alola saga that there wouldn't be any time for them to upset the current setup, so to speak.

Which means the ace is probably going to remain the one that's been doing ace things for over a year and counting.

Time will tell if that has any bearing on Smash.


Meanwhile, I stumbled across this yesterday. A promo set revealed back in late August that, based on the new anime opening, may have been foreshadowing things all along:

Pokeshopper Update : New Pokémon Sun and Moon Takara Tomy A.R.T.S gacha badges revealed for first time. A second mystery batch will be revealed late September. Details @ https://t.co/C29wpFCshM pic.twitter.com/RQEztQKaha

— Pokéshopper.net (@Pokeshopper) August 25, 2018

Eevee's there as the new recruit, Stufful to match the one Team Rocket seems to be getting based on the poster from a while back, even Zeraora is now accounted for after showing up in the anime intro (which is itself interesting). But notably...the Alola starters are only present in their middle stages.

 

[MasteRMerF]

Here's a neat little question: If Lycanroc were announced, where do you think it/they would be placed on the "Everyone is Here!" image? I have some ideas for all 3 forms.

Midday/Dusk: Running next to Villager-This is more of a "cute/funny" placement, as it would look like a boy and his dog, chasing a butterfly and having fun.
Midday/Dusk: Running right in front of Pokemon Trainer-This could make it look like Pokemon Trainer and Lycanroc are teaming up. Dusk's eyes would be red.
Midday/Dusk: Curled up/ sitting next to Robin-There's not too much room left on the end, but this would be a cute placement, almost like Robin is reading to it.
Midnight: Jumping between Donkey Kong and Bowser, above Bowser Jr.-This placement could really work for any form but Midnight was the first that came to mind, perhaps because it's red fur would match next to Ganondorf and, slightly, Donkey Kong's tie. Also, having the battle ready Midnight leaping menacingly next to the Great King of Evil would look awesome!
Midnight: Next to Wario and King Dedede- Basing this off of Midday/Dusk's placement next to PT, it would look like Midnight is eagerly ready to face off against the other!
Of course as we've seen, some characters are re-positioned when newcomers/echoes are added so they could be added in a number of places. What do you guys think?

 

[RandomAce]

Here's a neat little question: If Lycanroc were announced, where do you think it/they would be placed on the "Everyone is Here!" image? I have some ideas for all 3 forms.

Midday/Dusk: Running next to Villager-This is more of a "cute/funny" placement, as it would look like a boy and his dog, chasing a butterfly and having fun.
Midday/Dusk: Running right in front of Pokemon Trainer-This could make it look like Pokemon Trainer and Lycanroc are teaming up. Dusk's eyes would be red.
Midday/Dusk: Curled up/ sitting next to Robin-There's not too much room left on the end, but this would be a cute placement, almost like Robin is reading to it.
Midnight: Jumping between Donkey Kong and Bowser, above Bowser Jr.-This placement could really work for any form but Midnight was the first that came to mind, perhaps because it's red fur would match next to Ganondorf and, slightly, Donkey Kong's tie. Also, having the battle ready Midnight leaping menacingly next to the Great King of Evil would look awesome!
Midnight: Next to Wario and King Dedede- Basing this off of Midday/Dusk's placement next to PT, it would look like Midnight is eagerly ready to face off against the other!
Of course as we've seen, some characters are re-positioned when newcomers/echoes are added so they could be added in a number of places. What do you guys think?

I can see Midday, Midnight, and Dusk all in one group, right between Daisy and Snake.

Have Midday do a sort of pounce slightly above the ground, similar to one of their official art from GameFreak, with a smile looking to the left. Midnight is in the air doing his pose similar to that of his GX card looking to the left as well next to Midday. And then have Dusk in between Midday and Midnight in a pose similar to his official Pokémon art (the one in Delzethin’s video). I’d also want one of his eyes be normal while the other red.

 

[Deleted member]

Been great being here and a part of this board, thanks for welcoming me with eh... Open paws going to mostly just frequent, the Incineroar, Isaac, Bandana Dee, and Geno boards. Will post from time to time.


Thanks for everything hope Lycanroc gets in.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Here's a neat little question: If Lycanroc were announced, where do you think it/they would be placed on the "Everyone is Here!" image? I have some ideas for all 3 forms.

Midday/Dusk: Running next to Villager-This is more of a "cute/funny" placement, as it would look like a boy and his dog, chasing a butterfly and having fun.
Midday/Dusk: Running right in front of Pokemon Trainer-This could make it look like Pokemon Trainer and Lycanroc are teaming up. Dusk's eyes would be red.
Midday/Dusk: Curled up/ sitting next to Robin-There's not too much room left on the end, but this would be a cute placement, almost like Robin is reading to it.
Midnight: Jumping between Donkey Kong and Bowser, above Bowser Jr.-This placement could really work for any form but Midnight was the first that came to mind, perhaps because it's red fur would match next to Ganondorf and, slightly, Donkey Kong's tie. Also, having the battle ready Midnight leaping menacingly next to the Great King of Evil would look awesome!
Midnight: Next to Wario and King Dedede- Basing this off of Midday/Dusk's placement next to PT, it would look like Midnight is eagerly ready to face off against the other!
Of course as we've seen, some characters are re-positioned when newcomers/echoes are added so they could be added in a number of places. What do you guys think?

I think he'll be Lucario's opponent/the one Simon tries to whip

 

[Chihiro Fujisaki]

Here's a neat little question: If Lycanroc were announced, where do you think it/they would be placed on the "Everyone is Here!" image? I have some ideas for all 3 forms.

Midday/Dusk: Running next to Villager-This is more of a "cute/funny" placement, as it would look like a boy and his dog, chasing a butterfly and having fun.
Midday/Dusk: Running right in front of Pokemon Trainer-This could make it look like Pokemon Trainer and Lycanroc are teaming up. Dusk's eyes would be red.
Midday/Dusk: Curled up/ sitting next to Robin-There's not too much room left on the end, but this would be a cute placement, almost like Robin is reading to it.
Midnight: Jumping between Donkey Kong and Bowser, above Bowser Jr.-This placement could really work for any form but Midnight was the first that came to mind, perhaps because it's red fur would match next to Ganondorf and, slightly, Donkey Kong's tie. Also, having the battle ready Midnight leaping menacingly next to the Great King of Evil would look awesome!
Midnight: Next to Wario and King Dedede- Basing this off of Midday/Dusk's placement next to PT, it would look like Midnight is eagerly ready to face off against the other!
Of course as we've seen, some characters are re-positioned when newcomers/echoes are added so they could be added in a number of places. What do you guys think?

i could see lycanroc underneath dedede barking at the trainer and his pokemon defensively. dusk of course, since its the form i expect to be in.

 

[RandomAce]

It’s been a little, quiet recently.

This is a bit unrelated, I know that we have a Dusk stock icon, but are there stock icons for Midday and Midnight forms too?

 

[TCT~Phantom]

It’s been a little, quiet recently.

This is a bit unrelated, I know that we have a Dusk stock icon, but are there stock icons for Midday and Midnight forms too?

I don’t think so but if someone could make them I would be ecstatic.

 

[RandomAce]

I don’t think so but if someone could make them I would be ecstatic.

Awwww that’s a shame.

It would assume it would be easier to do Midday’s. But I hope someone is willing to do one for Midnight.

 

[Delzethin]

Apologies for the more sparse replies the last few days. I've been...busy with a thing.

Here's a neat little question: If Lycanroc were announced, where do you think it/they would be placed on the "Everyone is Here!" image? I have some ideas for all 3 forms.

Midday/Dusk: Running next to Villager-This is more of a "cute/funny" placement, as it would look like a boy and his dog, chasing a butterfly and having fun.
Midday/Dusk: Running right in front of Pokemon Trainer-This could make it look like Pokemon Trainer and Lycanroc are teaming up. Dusk's eyes would be red.
Midday/Dusk: Curled up/ sitting next to Robin-There's not too much room left on the end, but this would be a cute placement, almost like Robin is reading to it.
Midnight: Jumping between Donkey Kong and Bowser, above Bowser Jr.-This placement could really work for any form but Midnight was the first that came to mind, perhaps because it's red fur would match next to Ganondorf and, slightly, Donkey Kong's tie. Also, having the battle ready Midnight leaping menacingly next to the Great King of Evil would look awesome!
Midnight: Next to Wario and King Dedede- Basing this off of Midday/Dusk's placement next to PT, it would look like Midnight is eagerly ready to face off against the other!
Of course as we've seen, some characters are re-positioned when newcomers/echoes are added so they could be added in a number of places. What do you guys think?

A few ideas that come to mind are:

- Around where Sonic, Greninja, and Snake are, mixed in with them.
- Between Cloud and Pikachu, with Pika and Inkling moved over to the right a ways to make room.
- Between Mega Man and Villager, with them moved apart to make room. Works especially well since Marth is tall enough to not have his head or sword arm be obscured!

These are with Midday and Dusk's quadrupedal builds in mind, though. I'll need to think more about what would work for Midnight.

It’s been a little, quiet recently.

This is a bit unrelated, I know that we have a Dusk stock icon, but are there stock icons for Midday and Midnight forms too?

Not yet, since that kinda slipped through the cracks, but I'll see if I can call in a favor once some more time-sensitive matters have been finished.

 

[LukeRNG]

Hey, the new song is Fire Emblem again.
I guess that means the music theory is debunked, even if i never thought it had any solid stance. Kinda was hoping for something else, but id purpose is always good.

 

[RandomAce]

Hey, the new song is Fire Emblem again.
I guess that means the music theory is debunked, even if i never thought it had any solid stance. Kinda was hoping for something else, but id purpose is always good.

Yeah, I just thought that it could point to some characters like Elma, seeing how we haven’t recieved anything Xenoblade related yet, is eye browing. But Elma was really it, it never had that much weight really.

Anyways, I had a little debacle with someone else, but otherwise, pretty dull day. So here’s something:

What would be Lycanroc’s intro?

 

[DeltaSceptile]

What would be Lycanroc’s intro?

Depends on which Lycanroc ends up in the game (if at all). Honestly though, I can’t think of one right now.

 

[Delzethin]

Hey, the new song is Fire Emblem again.
I guess that means the music theory is debunked, even if i never thought it had any solid stance. Kinda was hoping for something else, but id purpose is always good.

Oh well. While we still don't know if this completely debunks the idea that franchises without music are more likely to still have newcomers, we haven't needed to pick a side on the matter anyway. Remember, we can play the long game in a way no one else from Gen 7 can--if there isn't a new 'mon in the base roster, Lycanroc would most likely be the standout pick from Gen 7 if they looked there during DLC.

That said, hey, we finally get a better look at the Id (Purpose) remix from Robin's mini-trailer. Let us hope it somehow ends up leading into someone following in Robin's footsteps in the next couple weeks...

 

[Maikou]

Yeah, I just thought that it could point to some characters like Elma, seeing how we haven’t recieved anything Xenoblade related yet, is eye browing. But Elma was really it, it never had that much weight really.

Anyways, I had a little debacle with someone else, but otherwise, pretty dull day. So here’s something:

What would be Lycanroc’s intro?

I tend to imagine the usual Poke Ball intro, with Lycanroc howling upon release before taking the approperiate stance for the form. Of course, if they decide to treat Lycanroc more like Mewtwo and Lucario, then I could see a small dome of stones forming up, before exploding outward as Lycanroc appears, partially based on the transformation animation for Taguel in Fire Emblem Awakening.

 

[Cosmic77]

I tend to imagine the usual Poke Ball intro, with Lycanroc howling upon release before taking the approperiate stance for the form. Of course, if they decide to treat Lycanroc more like Mewtwo and Lucario, then I could see a small dome of stones forming up, before exploding outward as Lycanroc appears, partially based on the transformation animation for Taguel in Fire Emblem Awakening.

Close to what I'd expect too. I think the Pokeball intro really suits non-Legendary Pokemon, so I'd be fine with Lycanroc getting that.

Although, if we were to get something unique, I wouldn't mind seeing something similar to Duck Hunt's. Lycanroc could jump onto the stage from the foreground before howling or barking at his opponents.

 

[Delzethin]

Anyways, I had a little debacle with someone else, but otherwise, pretty dull day. So here’s something:

What would be Lycanroc’s intro?

I tend to imagine the usual Poke Ball intro, with Lycanroc howling upon release before taking the approperiate stance for the form. Of course, if they decide to treat Lycanroc more like Mewtwo and Lucario, then I could see a small dome of stones forming up, before exploding outward as Lycanroc appears, partially based on the transformation animation for Taguel in Fire Emblem Awakening.

Close to what I'd expect too. I think the Pokeball intro really suits non-Legendary Pokemon, so I'd be fine with Lycanroc getting that.

Although, if we were to get something unique, I wouldn't mind seeing something similar to Duck Hunt's. Lycanroc could jump onto the stage from the foreground before howling or barking at his opponents.

Good question, actually...though yeah, the Poké Ball intro seems like the safest idea. I wouldn't be averse to something like them leaping in from off the side of the screen, impacting the ground where they land and kicking up some small rocks and dust, to emphasize their powers.

And if we got the Dusk form in particular, maybe they could even add an extra light source from the left side to cast over them? You know, sunset and all?

Come on, guys, we can't slow to a crawl now. We're so close to the 1,000 mark!

 

[RandomAce]

I just realized we’re about to reach our 1000 milestone. A bit surreal to think about since my first time here, so this post is sort of a tie in to that.

People acting like Incineroar is the Chrom when Incineroar is the Robin. With Lycanroc being the Chrom and Dusk being a slightly different Chrom.

I think this is where you’re really wrong.

A “Chrom” character is a character that has either been discussed a lot and is considered to be the “lock” or likely character by many. The reason why Lycanroc can’t be a “Chrom” character in that sense is because Lycanroc barely gets mentioned outside of Smashboards. Maybe Rogersbase, Source Gaming, and Delzethin (obviously), but thoroughout speculation all three forms are mentioned less than the other three characters.

Pre - E3, Decidueye was the one to get mentioned a lot, but Incineroar and Mimikyu soon followed as either their second or third pick. Post - E3, Incineroar is now the one mentioned a lot, Mimikyu has been deconfirmed and Decidueye isn’t discussed as much, but Decidueye is still there.

They are “Chroms” (lol) in the sense that they were, at their respective times, to be the ones to get in, “locks”. Lycanroc is a “Robin” because both of them have been under the radar and haven’t been cosidered that much. Both of them also share a similarity as they both can bring something unique to the roster, Lycanroc being a fully fledged earth fighter that Smash never had, using various rock moves that can stand out from the cast.
Another flawed point was that you made it seem that we were “on our knees” and that Dusk was our last hope. That’s not the case, some people think the other forms still have a chance as well with the idea of a possible stance fighter (which is even more unique) and seeing how they were also heavily pushed. Not to mention that Dusk’s data was found in the base game of Sun and Moon, and seeing how Dusk has a big role in the anime, it’s very possible that Dusk was planned along the other forms since the beginning. You also made the assumption that Lycanroc would’ve been switched after using the “Chrom/Robin” scenario when A) Chrom and Robin were planned at the same time and B) We don’t know how the Pokémon newcomer was planned.

Sure we may not get a similar situation like last time, but you can’t call Lycanroc a “Chrom” when it points to the contrary. The fact that you decided to pull something from another thread to “prove” your point was unnecessary and didn’t help in the long run. Now you’re trying to shoot down a character (or characters) presumably because of “hate” when it had began settling down (someone even apologized in that very thread for seeming too agressive, kuddos to you) and some of the points you provided against Lycanroc seemed flawed and fueled by anger.

In the end, we’re going to know which Pokémon will get in the roster (if any). I get it that Vergeben is one of the reasons why Incineroar seems likely and that people have been a little too agressive for your character, despite them thinking that he’s also in, but you can’t try to tell to stop supporting who they want for not being on the other side.

The reason why Lycanroc still has support is because there are things that made them likely that allowed some people to show their thoughts and hopes about them here. Sure, the people here are fans of Lycanroc, but the foundation led by what makes Lycanroc likely is why this place is still active and why some decided not to leave yet. Even if we don’t make it, that’s still the core of this very thread.

 

[Deleted member]

Don't ever again drag me into a thread and lecture me to calm down just because you misinterpreted what I said being out of anger instead of being criticizing.

If there's one thing that really angers me, it's people feeling the need to tell me to "calm down" when I'm not even remotely being heated.

It's why I ignored what you had to say the first time, and it's why I am going to ignore your giant wall of text now.

 

[Cosmic77]

Before E3, Incineroar definitely would've been the "Robin" of Ultimate. No one gave serious thought to the possibility of Incineroar getting in over Decidueye, and many didn't think he stood a chance. Lycanroc was also a "Robin", but to a lesser extent since it had a decent following.

But now? Things have completely reversed. Incineroar is easily the current "Chrom" of Ultimate. People who have shown little to no interest in Incineroar prior to Verge are now coming out of the woodworks. He's suddenly become one of the most likely newcomers, all because a very credible source said he'd get in (sound familiar to anything in Smash 4?). Decidueye is now in Incineroar's former position, and most people have completely abandoned him. And Lycanroc...honestly hasn't changed much. His odds might seem worse than before, but overall, he's still a "Robin" who no one would expect.

Don't ever again drag me into a thread and lecture me to calm down just because you misinterpreted what I said being out of anger instead of being criticizing.

If there's one thing that really angers me, it's people feeling the need to tell me to "calm down" when I'm not even remotely being heated.

It's why I ignored what you had to say the first time, and it's why I am going to ignore your giant wall of text now.

Ironically, you got heated because someone accused you of being heated.

Look, I don't know went on between you two, nor do I really want to know. Regardless of what was said, everyone needs to remember that at the end of the day, none of this really matters. There's no good reason for anyone to get so aggressive or defensive over something as silly as a fictional character, especially when it's Pokemon of all things.

Feel free to skip over this if you want; won't hurt my feelings. I'm not trying to lecture anyone in this thread, nor anyone in Incineroar's thread. I just really don't want to see anymore petty and spiteful arguements on Incineroar vs Lycanroc.