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Critique My Wario thread

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Dynomite

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SnackAttack said:
I have to disagree Dyno, I'm sorry.

If it were out for a little less, then it wouldn't be so bad.
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You disagree with Dyno?? Who do you think you are, PhantomX???

Uh, im guessing you disagree with the Dsmash being an alright move.

Plus: it does 17 damage
people done expect it
it has numerous hits (if one misses)
Has a 3 frame window where it breaks their shield on contact.
keeps other moves fresh
Sends them straight (not slightly up like fsmash does, making it harder to DI)
stops phantasm
you look like a bad*ss if you know how to use it
He's F*cking dancing!


Minus: Leaves you open if they shield it
Leaves you open if you miss
Lasts a long time
no invincible frames
you get punished mildly hard if you miss.
cant really be used if they are at low %. even if they get hit they will punish you.


Main point: it can be a really good move if you know how to use it without getting punished or if you use it in a way that leaves them very few options to get out of it.
 
Croi

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I definitely agree that it has it's uses...but they're extremely situational and require wicked fast reflexes/a really good read.

EDIT: Also nair stops phantasm just as well.
 
Dynomite

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Croi said:
I definitely agree that it has it's uses...but they're extremely situational and require wicked fast reflexes/a really good read.

EDIT: Also nair stops phantasm just as well.
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Reflexes? a dead cat has better reflexes than me and i still end up having a use for dsmash its mainly about trapping them not reflexes.

Nair stops phantasm? not im my experiences. upsmash does if they hit your head. Dair if they hit your head. Bite you both get hit. Up tilt if they end up the palm of your hands. but ive never had nair go through their phantasm, nor their firebirds.
 
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AlMoStLeGeNdArY

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dynomite said:
Reflexes? a dead cat has better reflexes than me and i still end up having a use for dsmash its mainly about trapping them not reflexes.

Nair stops phantasm? not im my experiences. upsmash does if they hit your head. Dair if they hit your head. Bite you both get hit. Up tilt if they end up the palm of your hands. but ive never had nair go through their phantasm, nor their firebirds.
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nair ***** phantasm.
 
Dynomite

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AlMoStLeGeNdArY said:
nair ***** phantasm.
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of falco is offstage and you are onstage, if you nair and falco trys to hit you with phantasm, nair goes through phantasm?

or are you guys talking about offstage, if offstage i agree but if you are on stage and falco is offstage i wouldnt think so.
 
Croi

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nair ***** phantasm anywhere, any time. Your hitbox reaches Falco's hurtbox before he can do the same to you. Onstage or offstage, if he phantasms, your nair will completely shut him down.
 
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AlMoStLeGeNdArY

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dynomite said:
of falco is offstage and you are onstage, if you nair and falco trys to hit you with phantasm, nair goes through phantasm?

or are you guys talking about offstage, if offstage i agree but if you are on stage and falco is offstage i wouldnt think so.
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It doesn't matter. Watch DEHF vs Fiction he nairs him while on stage against his phantasm. Nair is super effective against it.
 
PhantomX

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I think stronghit nair will trade with the firebird hit, but you want to get them during startup, b/c then any part of it beats it out.
 
TheOgbot

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I'm watching the first one.

He seemed to shield your dairs most of the time. Mixing it up with a few bites would be really cool.

You shouldn't save for a full waft often. The killing power you get on a half waft is nice and it's also a nice surprise to just randomly let rip on your opponent. Also try to bait airdodges/rolls/stepdodges for a waft. You'll get those kills you want when you do so.

I'm still a little new myself, but I hope I gave you some ok tips lol
 
Sky`

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yeah. these are a lil old but I appreciate the feedback. I do need to start using those 1 min/1.4 min wafts.
 
Padô

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Asa,
I watched you videos against DM.

Try to punish all MKs B moves, DM landed after a tornado right next to you 2 times. You could have wafted 1 time and the other one you could just grab him after it on the first match. Also Fair poking glideattacks off stage isn't that greedy and it's a bit safe. Try to do that sometimes it kinda ****s ups the MK recovery.

About MK grabs, avoid'em at all costs, they do decent damage and they put you in a really unconfortable position, almost all of them links with a Fair or an Uair depending on your DI.

Approaches. The best Wario approach on this is the DashShield > Grab. Seriously. Any other options are SLOW compared to MKs options to punish you, I'd suggest reading a bad Fair, Ftilt, Glide Attack and stuff then punish with a grab + pummel for easy 14%. 6 of those and you are ready to kill him with a waft. Aside of this, Wario plays here the punish game not the aggresive game, you are racking up damage based on how much the MK attacks you. As DMG said before "If the MK doens't know the matchup, he's getting grabbed 50 times in a row and die."

I noticed you rushed into an attack sometimes after getting hit, and thats a bad flaw, specially against high level players, they are always waiting for your action to punish because it's just really safer on relying on your opponents flaws then taking own decisions. Don't rush into it NEVER again just Bike out or jump away and restart the match from the beggining, say this word 4 times again if you are playing against a MK, HES SO FAST SO BROKEN that he could read where you landing with the attack and grab you, UpB you, Nado you an **** you.

Also, there are some certain matchups that FSmash is safe on shield and hard for the opponent to punish because it just slides their shield a bit away, MK is not in this case. Forget about FSmashing MK to rack up damage, it's a bad decision just do it after a 2nd Hit Nair which is pretty much guaranteed and if you wanna kill the MK with it just be really sure you are hitting him with it, he can punish it so well on shield with almost everything he has os his move set or just use one of those not sure combos like Jab > FSmash.
 
Sky`

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Soo, why couldn't you give me advice on my videos? >=/ Wario boards goers are Jerks.

/salty
 
M

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Sky` said:
Soo, why couldn't you give me advice on my videos? >=/ Wario boards goers are Jerks.

/salty
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you were being too recklessly balls-to-the-wall offensive, it seemed to work against that MK but it wouldn't against a better one/one who knows the matchup better
 
Sky`

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Masky said:
you were being too recklessly balls-to-the-wall offensive, it seemed to work against that MK but it wouldn't against a better one/one who knows the matchup better
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My Wario at this point plays much more conservative than then, but at the same time, the Wario Metagame seems to subsist on the idea of always playing patiently but I'm not sure that's the correct mind set 100% of the time. With the options wario has, he has every tool he needs to be effectively aggressive I think.
 
TheOgbot

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I'd like to hear a more in depth analysis of that actually. I've always seen his moves as wonderful tools of punishment instead of tools that could work effectively in an aggressive style.

Opinions are never wrong, some are just uncommon.
 
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Sky` said:
My Wario at this point plays much more conservative than then, but at the same time, the Wario Metagame seems to subsist on the idea of always playing patiently but I'm not sure that's the correct mind set 100% of the time. With the options wario has, he has every tool he needs to be effectively aggressive I think.
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using bair and fair and random dairs to approach MK with wario doesn't actually work if the MK can space

using every tool of your character isn't the same as randomly doing every ****ty move whenever you see an opportunity.

trust me, i wish wario could approach MK just by doing random **** and kill with with random smashes. but in reality against a good opponent that won't work. if it did, wario would be like the easiest character to play ever lol
 
Sky`

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Masky said:
using bair and fair and random dairs to approach MK with wario doesn't actually work if the MK can space

using every tool of your character isn't the same as randomly doing every ****ty move whenever you see an opportunity.

trust me, i wish wario could approach MK just by doing random **** and kill with with random smashes. but in reality against a good opponent that won't work. if it did, wario would be like the easiest character to play ever lol
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Idk why you're coming off as so pretentious assuming that all of my approaches are thoughtless and all of my smashes are random. They have thought to them.

And when you think quick enough, the base reasoning to your actions becomes quite clear.
 
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Masky

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Sky` said:
Idk why you're coming off as so pretentious assuming that all of my approaches are thoughtless and all of my smashes are random. They have thought to them.

And when you think quick enough, the base reasoning to your actions becomes quite clear.
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I didn't mean to sound pretentious, I'm sorry. honestly i just thought you randomly attacked a lot in those vids when it shouldn't have worked if the MK was spacing properly :laugh:
 
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Masky said:
I didn't mean to sound pretentious, I'm sorry. honestly i just thought you randomly attacked a lot in those vids when it shouldn't have worked if the MK was spacing properly :laugh:
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I thought the same thing it didn't even seem as though the MK was trying.

Sky` said:
My Wario at this point plays much more conservative than then, but at the same time, the Wario Metagame seems to subsist on the idea of always playing patiently but I'm not sure that's the correct mind set 100% of the time. With the options wario has, he has every tool he needs to be effectively aggressive I think.
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Wario doesn't have the range or priority to be able to be always aggressive that way. If you're going to play him you're going to have to be patient otherwise you'll get walled all day unless your opponent isn't good. If you want to have marginal success against average player than by all means be aggressive however, you need to understand that you need to be patient otherwise you're going to come in hear complaining about be walled and stuff.
 
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AlMoStLeGeNdArY said:
I thought the same thing it didn't even seem as though the MK was trying.



Wario doesn't have the range or priority to be able to be always aggressive that way. If you're going to play him you're going to have to be patient otherwise you'll get walled all day unless your opponent isn't good. If you want to have marginal success against average player than by all means be aggressive however, you need to understand that you need to be patient otherwise you're going to come in hear complaining about be walled and stuff.
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no need to get salty about it
 
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