CPU's Learn?

[hectichobo]

I have this glitch I use on Pictochat with Kirby all the time that i found.and i kept doing it the the computer. And some magic how, he caught my consistently moving brick. I didn't think much of it other than there was a glitch to my glitch, oh well. Then, He did it! He did my glitch. And he didn't just do the glitch. He kept doing it. And it was perfect every time he did it. There is no way it already knew about the "TwitchBrick". And now i tried fighting a level 9 Kirby again. But this time, as Zelda. It did my glitch again. They must copy you or something. Your thoughts?

 

[AlCaTraz644]

I thought i was just me who thought that, but certain things like RAR and that reverse falcon punch i didn't know the cpu was able to do it. MAybe the creators put some of the AT we know into the game ?

who know ?

 

[Glenugie]

I've noticed similar things, especially if you put a spammer against a CPU, the CPU is fooled for a while, but eventually overcomes it and the spam cant be successfully performed again.

The two answers would appear to be either:
1- AT's were programmed into the game
2- Or the AI was programmed to learn

I think its probably Number 1, but I have no way to prove it, anyone fell like dipping into the code?

 

[PK-ow!]

I thought i was just me who thought that, but certain things like RAR and that reverse falcon punch i didn't know the cpu was able to do it. MAybe the creators put some of the AT we know into the game ?

who know ?

Why the hell wouldn't the computer know reverse Falcon Punch?

And RAR is almost surely intentional.

I highly doubt they were programmed to learn. No one has any idea how to make a GOFAI machine learn jack ****, if it's even possible. And connectionist technology is not implementable with the resources available to consoles yet.

 

[Messiano]

I think rather then learn they have a few set lines of what to do and they can switch from "Line 1" to "Line 7" (or which ever) if a certin actions triggers it such as being juggled, or consistent stun by something like a laser for fireballs

 

[TheSundanceKid]

I got one creepy CPU DDD once. I was fighting and it actually chaingrabbed me. It down threw me and regrabbed me two more times then hit me. It was creepy.

 

[CorruptFate]

The CPU's do learn. I am finding my lvl 9 Pits all the sudden know how to wingdash and are using Wind push effects offensivly. I like it, it means even fighting CPU's isn't as bad as it was before. And I don't think AT's were put into the games AI other wise in the first few matches you played against them you would be seeing AT's and most AT's wouldn't have been descovered by people but by the game. And also as we know the game creators were/are very much against Brawl becoming highly conpetive will AT's and such it has been said in many interviews with the designers them selfs.

 

[PK-ow!]

I think rather then learn they have a few set lines of what to do and they can switch from "Line 1" to "Line 7" (or which ever) if a certin actions triggers it such as being juggled, or consistent stun by something like a laser for fireballs

That sounds reasonable. But that's not any different from what we can expect the computers do anyway - response-based fighting. You can tell that they play without time, simply responding to the configuration of all characters on the screen. Maybe they choose between a few things they can do, but it's predetermined by the programmers.

The most inventive they could be, is if they're given a concept of game physics and hitboxes, and use attacks to 'hit the guy', but I don't know how you'd build in dodging and defense to that - even if you ignore mindgames.

I got one creepy CPU DDD once. I was fighting and it actually chaingrabbed me. It down threw me and regrabbed me two more times then hit me. It was creepy.

Again, not surprising. If the DDD grabs whenever "A grab will work," and it has just some sort of trigger-based reasoning like "you won't escape a grab if I do one now," then it would do that.

EDIT ". . . you won't dodge a grab if I do one now," then it would do that. And the next moment, when that is true again (that you won't dodge a grab), it does it again. I doubt it's thinking that it will actually chain.

Oh wait do you mean the non-infinite dthrow grab? Yeah that's not surprising at all. And that one probably was programmed in.
And any one who calls a simple chain grab an AT is a dolt.

The CPU's do learn. I am finding my lvl 9 Pits all the sudden know how to wingdash and are using Wind push effects offensivly. I like it, it means even fighting CPU's isn't as bad as it was before. And I don't think AT's were put into the games AI other wise in the first few matches you played against them you would be seeing AT's and most AT's wouldn't have been descovered by people but by the game. And also as we know the game creators were/are very much against Brawl becoming highly conpetive will AT's and such it has been said in many interviews with the designers them selfs.

I'm not sure what wingdashing is. If it's something really complicated, this makes me think the A.I.'s are being patched in those game updates we've all been pondering.

Also, the designers have said they're against ATs (the idiots). . . but what about the developers?

 

[Cril]

I'm not sure what wingdashing is. If it's something really complicated, this makes me think the A.I.'s are being patched in those game updates we've all been pondering.

Also, the designers have said they're against ATs (the idiots). . . but what about the developers?

now that sounds plausible.... and a little creepy

 

[The Star King]

The CPU's definitely do not learn. We don't have that kind of technology today, to make computers learn from humans in a video game.

 

[H@RIK]

LOL ofcourse computers can learn. You cant teach them to speak or stuff., but easy thing asin pressing 7 buttons that do 40%+ in a combo. They just copy the moves and use it..,

its not like Magic's going on., but im 100% sure that they can let computers use moves that are often used by the players on that console.

when I play kirby now it jumps off the stage to punch me down., while it never did that in the beginning.
and I saw snakedash from cpu :O. (all moves/strat's I use alot).

Im not sure u can call this learning but.. maybe the computer will add a new "line" with other moves copied from players..

and yeah., for that you dont need to be brilliant to code

 

[brod1986]

What's revers falcon punch?

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

What's revers falcon punch?

Basically it's a new skill for Captain Falcon. While charging the Falcon Punch, tilt the Control Stick at the opposite direction. Time it right and he'll change the direction of his punch.

On a side note, the Reverse Falcon Punch packs more power than a normal Falcon Punch.

 

[Liquid_Kai?]

How clever they get in the future, they could never learn the awesomness of the dash dance.

 

[Pierce7d]

MY CPUs learn! A Falco chaingrabbed me in a ditto into a spike. It was 3 grabs!!!! GTFO here if he didn't steal that from me.

And I notice CPUs stealing techs from me that they never did before, after I use them. I was starting to think less and less that it's my imagination, and now I really do believe they learn. Not quickly or intimately, but very primitively.

 

[akemineko]

this happened to me in ssb, i used to own my cousins everyday with yoshi over and over again with spikes. Then when we decided to do team battle my teammate was yoshi and he kept spiking and throwing eggs like i always did.

 

[zacharia zako]

what's this glitch on picto chat? can someone fill me in?

 

[SmashBrother2008]

Sometimes it seems that way, but I don't beleive that they learn from the players at all.

 

[IC3R]

I think that the CPU's may be capable of learning...

For instance, as a fourth Taunt, I'll start spamming my crouch (especially with Kirby) instead of a normal Taunt. In several of my matches, CPU's would start crouching repeatedly instead of Taunting like they normally do!!!

O___o;

I just hope the CPU's don't learn how to Chain Grab with Squirtle...
That'd be annoying



Also...has anyone here seen a CPU Lucas WaveBounce?!?!?! That $#!t tripped me out, man...

 

[fujbubccc]

IC3R, it's interesting that you bring that up, because I specifically DO NOT spam crouch after kills. I will do the dance taunt with DDD or step it up with Sonic, but I have noticed that my CPUs are spamming crouch as well. Weird stuff. Could the CPUs do these ATs when the gave first came out? Would you see a level 9 Wario do a bike jump?

 

[IC3R]

Oh, so it's not just me...

T____T

EDIT: Speaking of DDD, did you know that there is an error with DDD's Up Taunt (He raises his hammer three times). When facing left, his back is turned, and when you use his Up Taunt, he'll make the sounds before even doing the animation. When facing right, Audio/Video is synched correctly. Useless information, I know, but interesting.

 

[Pikminx45]

I personally think that the CPU has some way of learning/ copying. I've played CPU's but I still have yet to see them "Learn any of my techs... mabey you have to practilly kill them before they learn? My CU's have the ability to block evey single move I ever do... or dose everyoe have that problem?

Yes they can dodge Olimar's grab almost everytime....

Edit-- It appears that they do learn... Lv9 Oliamrs of mine are begiing to act like me...

It might be form the Replay datas... Replays are just repeated button commands right? well the CPU could easily borrow from those files....

 

[XienZo]

There's a thread like this in the brawl tactics, and over there, we're thinking that the CPU might remember your button presses a few seconds before and after you KO someone. We can get the CPUs to crouch taunt...

 

[eco3576]

this is impossible there cant be ai's that are programmed to learn yet. they can probably copy the stuff u do but only for a little while. idk its just my theory

 

[IC3R]

this is impossible there cant be ai's that are programmed to learn yet. they can probably copy the stuff u do but only for a little while. idk its just my theory

Well, learning is copying, basically...

The real question is: Can the CPU's learn and then apply what they've learned?



I await the day when computer's taunt during the middle of a fight...just for lulz...

 

[penguinman]

can they do the infinite cape glitch?

 

[Chuee]

hmm this is quite odd. Ive never seen a CPU use moves of mine before.

 

[Duker]

Hmm.. I think I'm gonna start some testing so see if I can get a lvl 9 Captain Falcon to spam "Show me your moves!" .

Seriously.

Tomorrow.
After work...


And yes, I believe they have some form of learning. I somehow doubt that Sakurai or his playtesters would find RAR for example and implement it <.< ... It really surprised me the first time I saw it.

 

[Zanoske]

the computer edge guarded me

 

[Immortal_One]

This proves the "button copy" theory, which says that level 9 CPU's usually copy your button strokes that inflict a high amount of damage on them. I don't think it's learning as much as it is a simple "if...then" statement.

 

[Alus]

The CPU's definitely do not learn. We don't have that kind of technology today, to make computers learn from humans in a video game.

but we can learn ourselves and update the cpu

and by the way...we do have that tech...its called adaption adjust...military autoturrets use it...and our remote controled planes because we have programs that give it the ability to"Adjust" and so on and forth..

 

[PKSkyler]

CPU has edge hogged me before.
CPU`s Ness plays a lot like mine.

 

[MarthFanatique]

the computer edge guarded me

yeah, the CPU in Brawl tend to do that now.

Even in Melee, the last event match (Giga Bowser, Ganondorf, and Mewtwo) I completed on my memory card. Then, I went to my friend's house. Her sister plays a mean Ganondorf, and I was rather confused why the Ganondorf on that memory card w/e you call it acted so smart, and hard to kill. CPU's learn what u do and can execute it sometimes.

BTW, what is wingdashing or whatever it's called?

 

[Viny]

they do learn in melee a sheik wavedash.....and on different Wii the Cpu are easier cause my friend dosent play very often so i am very sure they learn

 

[zamz]

Actually, it wouldn't be too hard to program a set of AI which adapts to the player. Somewhere, in the recesses of time, there exists a game called "Dual Heroes" for the N64. It features a mode where the computer player stays motionless...and as you punch/kick it's lifeless body, it starts to do what you do. Over time, it becomes an identical copy to your playing style by learning how you fight.

In much the same way, I always wondered why fighting games aren't programmed so that the AI adapted and grew (very slowly) beyond it's original AI to match the humans...with some slight variation to still make it fun (as in, the computers will never be IDENTICAL to you...just similar, and as long as you have multiple people playing on the same Wii, the AI grows to match more than just you to learn some new tricks). This way, the AI will never be too weak. They will grow to get better, and make the game more fun.

It's the alternative to giving the strongest AI superhuman reflexes (1 frame delay). I mean...it makes level 9s just silly and pointless if they can Spot-dodge a lasor 2 steps away. There's no human feel to them at all. If they don't play like humans...what's the point?

 

[OmegaXXII]

Mario usually is the one I notice that often does more techs than anyone, for one he's edge hogged which i've never seen him do

BTW, what is wingdashing or whatever it's called?

do you mean wavedashing?

 

[0RLY]

I played a Samus ditto against a cpu. I used only zair. I 3 stocked the cpu. Next game. Did the same thing. CPU never used zair.

Conclusion: CPUs don't learn.

 

[the5souls]

what's this glitch on picto chat? can someone fill me in?

I didn't see any replies to this, so... here's the glitch:

Go to Pictochat stage with Kirby. Go to the edge of the stage (the part of the stage where there's a slant downward), and just do your Down-B Stone move. You should begin to see the whole screen to shake like crazy and the Stone Impact sound repetively.




Back on topic:

Hmm... well on some occasions, I do feel like as if they "learn" a bit, or somehow have some crazy rampage on his/her last life.

BUT!!!

The ultimate test is the CROMSLIDE.

 

[Viny]

CROMSLIDE ?? what is that?

 

[Duker]

I believe Cromslide is when Snake (and some more) slide crazy distances while charging their upSmash. Please do correct me if I'm wrong...

I played a Samus ditto against a cpu. I used only zair. I 3 stocked the cpu. Next game. Did the same thing. CPU never used zair.

Conclusion: CPUs don't learn.

And who says that it has to be instantaneous?