Counterpicking Made Peachy

[hush.]

Rainbow Cruise and Jungle Japes are definitely good picks, since his recovery is even more horrendous than normal there. :|

 

[Gea]

Yup. Ban Luigi's especially. I think Japes is worse for them than Cruise. Frigate is also an option. Avoid lylat in this case. FD isn't so bad either. The less ways Oli has to move around your float, the better. Water is a plus, but Oli does fairly well on Delphino.

Honestly, if I was an olimar I'd like corneria moreso than norfair and luigi's. But I'm not.

 

[Praxis]

Jungle Japes is the most utterly riculous Olimar **** stage in the universe. The water desyncs his Pikmin. If he falls in, just go grab the next ledge so he can't jump out. He'll have no attacks and no up-B, and just fall right back in and die.

Never tried rainbow cruise but I would think it'd **** him badly.

I had an Olimar just barely beat me once, IRL in tournament, on the first game. Next round I picked Japes and three stocked him. Third round he tried Lucario on me, my most experienced matchup....yeah didn't end well for him.

 

[Excellence]

In order from the worst to not as bad:
1. Jungle Japes
2. Sky World
3. Rainbow Cruise
4. Delfilo Plaza (Though, not to bad for good Olimars)

All these stages are murder for Olimars, ESPECIALLY Jungle Japes.

 

[Morrigan]

Easiest Matchup for Peach: Olimar
Best stage for Peach: Jungle Japes
One of Olimar's worst matchup: Peach
Worst stage for Olimar: Jungle Japes


Poor guy.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Easiest Matchup for Peach: Olimar
Best stage for Peach: Jungle Japes
One of Olimar's worst matchup: Peach
Worst stage for Olimar: Jungle Japes


Poor guy.

He'll get no sympathy from me.

There's only room for one vegetable plucker in this town

 

[deepseadiva]

I'm starting to think this'll be a very fast thread. It's basically a collection of opinions.

So, Meta Knight. Look people, if there's one thing people over look is counterpicking stages - it is a HUGE factor. Meta Knight on Green Greens is not the same as Meta Knight in Battlefield.

Learn and adapt.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Meta Knight does not die.

/thread

Didn't Edreese say something about Castle Seige being good vs Meta Knight?

 

[deepseadiva]

Didn't Edreese say something about Castle Seige being good vs Meta Knight?

I do recall something like that...

But I HIGHLY suggest Green Greens. That place is magical against Meta Knight.
Lessens his recovery, tornado/drill and their giganto-hitboxes explode bomb blocks, you can KILL it.

Choose Green Greens!

 

[Morrigan]

Just don't forget Peach is as light as him (considering her floatiness), the good thing is that if there are enough blocks on the sides you can survive longer to his Dsmash

 

[Rockin]

Green Greens is usually banned in some states. Well, around in the EC it is.

Anyway, about meta knight....I'm gonna quote something a friend of mine said

'There IS no bad stages for Meta Knight.'

Meta Knight does pretty good to great on a lot of stages. I wouldn't suggest either Battlefield or FD against him, because the format on both gives him good attack possibilities and gimp moments.

You can counterpick on Lylat cruis. The stage tips and if anything, may crw up his Up B or Foward B recovery.

 

[deepseadiva]

Anyway, about meta knight....I'm gonna quote something a friend of mine said

'There IS no bad stages for Meta Knight.'

No no no. That's the mentality I'm trying to get people away from. EVERYONE has a bad stage - especially Meta Knight. Go play him on Green Greens and laugh at his attempts to tornado spam.

In regards to legality - that's region specific. If it's banned where you live I'm SO sorry.

You can counterpick on Lylat cruis. The stage tips and if anything, may crw up his Up B or Foward B recovery.

I dunno, MK is regarded as having one of the best recoveries in the game... I don't think counterpicking in hopes of gimping is going to work...

Note: I also hear Yoshi's Island (Melee) is his worst stage.

 

[Rockin]

It may not gimp him on Lylat cruis, but you'll know at least when he may Up B or forward B, because they're gonna try and be careful not to do it too soon or too late.

Also, Yoshi Story (Melee) is banned as well, along with Green Greens.

Here's what my toury and possibly all of EC will be following.

Neutral:

* Final Destination
* Battlefield
* Yoshi's Story
* Smashville
* Lylat

Stages for Counterpick:

* Delfino Plaza
* Frigate Orpheon
* Battleship Halberd
* Castle Siege
* Rainbow Cruise
* Brinstar
* Pokemon Stadium 1
* Pokemon Stadium 2
* Norfair
* Corneria
* Pictochat
* Great Sea


Banned Stages:

*Everything Else

It's not that I don't think Meta has bad stages. Trust me, I play meta. I know he has at least a bad stage to go on. He does moderate on most stages. The only way to make that stage bad is if you counterpick right against that said character. For example.

Peach Vs. Meta on Jungle Japes = Neutral/favor for Meta.

Why: He's able to move around more swiftly.

DDD Vs. Meta on Jungle Japes = favor of DDD

why: DDD can do massive camping with his waddle dee/doo/ gordos.

When you look at it, it's hard. I'm not really sure what's a good stage against Meta. That's why I said Lylat cruis, cause the recovery doesn't effect Peach as much as Meta (IMO). Pictochat may also be good.

 

[Praxis]

I do recall something like that...

But I HIGHLY suggest Green Greens. That place is magical against Meta Knight.
Lessens his recovery, tornado/drill and their giganto-hitboxes explode bomb blocks, you can KILL it.

Choose Green Greens!

I ALWAYS pick Green Greens on MK.

Sadly, they're starting to ban it on me :/ I need something else fast...

We ban Luigi's over (w00t) here but not Green Greens thank goodness. xD

EDIT: I was wondering if Halberd might be a good choice? Peach can probably ftilt him off the top at 110-120% if not stale, and usmash will kill even easier than normal- and Meta rarely kills off the top. Short ceiling vs a character that kills off the sides...

 

[Morrigan]

Wow, why are they banning everything in your area? That sucks, I bet the TOs are MK mainers >_>.

 

[Praxis]

Wow, why are they banning everything in your area? That sucks, I bet the TOs are MK mainers >_>.

Who, me? We just banned Corneria and Luigi's. Luigi's is a stupidly good MK too, so good riddance.

EDIT: Rockin, Japes, Greens, and Luigi's are banned, but not Corneria or Norfair or Pictochat? What the heck...?

 

[EdreesesPieces]

I think green green is the only good counter for meta. Love that stage versus him. Castle siege is OK, I just like it personally because I know how to use the stage really well, it's not a character counterpick as much as it is a personal one. But I think Green greens for sure is great against him.

If port town aero drive is available I think it does a decent job too. Mainly because cars interuppt EVERYTHING and it just becomes close no matter who you're playing against, haha.

 

[Praxis]

OH. DSF told Deva that Norfair was a good MK counterpick. I haven't tried it yet.
The damage from the lava is worth more against him than you as he's lighter, and his edgeguarding advantage is annulled.

 

[deepseadiva]

So far we have Green Greens, Yoshi's Island (Melee), Halberd, Norfair, Pictochat, Lylat Cruise, and Port Town Aero Drive as Meta Knight counters.

I like Greens Greens, Yoshi's, Halberd, Norfair, and Pictochat so far.

Lylat I'm still wary about - it really does seem like a lot of space to get gimped, and Meta Knight is REALLY good at it. Hell, I get gimped there enough by the stage itself...

Port Town, I don't see how it would specifically affect MK.

Pictochat I like. It's as disrupting, if not more than, as Port Town, but I think more aggressive toward Meta; specifically his attacks that send him all over the place. Use his range against him!

 

[Morrigan]

Can someone explain how MK is affected by Yoshi's Island Melee AGAINST PEACH? I'm interested to know. Does Peach have any advantage on that stage? I don't find it really comfortable.

 

[Gea]

Stage is disgusting.

 

[deepseadiva]

Can someone explain how MK is affected by Yoshi's Island Melee AGAINST PEACH? I'm interested to know. Does Peach have any advantage on that stage? I don't find it really comfortable.

Really, it's only there due to the fact it's MK's worst stage - the low ceiling, one side is a walkoff and disallows gimps, uh... other things probably...

I'm wondering what happens if a Meta tornadoes over the spinning blocks on the bottom. Do they become loose and kill him? Can you tech the slopes?

 

[Rockin]

Wow, why are they banning everything in your area? That sucks, I bet the TOs are MK mainers >_>.

You lose your bet XDat least in NY I believe

One of our TOs, alex strife, mains marth, but it's nothing like that. See, they want stages where:


1) the physics and such doesn't get in the way of the player.

2) lack of massive camping (like Bridge of Eldrin)

3) lack of items and such on the field (green greens, distant planet)

so yeah, it's not Meta Knight running a toury. it's just to make it seem too broken/really unfair

EDIT: Rockin, Japes, Greens, and Luigi's are banned, but not Corneria or Norfair or Pictochat? What the heck...?

Actually, Japes is legal, but alex forgot to update it a bit.

I think they banned Green Greens because of the items, you can camp on it with Dedede, infinites on the blocks with Dedede, and so on and so on

Luigi's was banned because of the massive camping and 'planking' you can do on that stage. I think it's legal, but if it isn't, that's possibly the reason

Corneria, Pictochat, and Great Sea WAS gonna be banned, but we was going left and right with it, so as a result, Alex put them as counterpicks. He feels we may regret it later, but we'll see.

Norfair is definitly legal as a counterpick.

 

[Praxis]

You lose your bet XDat least in NY I believe

One of our TOs, alex strife, mains marth, but it's nothing like that. See, they want stages where:


1) the physics and such doesn't get in the way of the player.

2) lack of massive camping (like Bridge of Eldrin)

3) lack of items and such on the field (green greens, distant planet)

so yeah, it's not Meta Knight running a toury. it's just to make it seem too broken/really unfair



Actually, Japes is legal, but alex forgot to update it a bit.

I think they banned Green Greens because of the items, you can camp on it with Dedede, infinites on the blocks with Dedede, and so on and so on

Luigi's was banned because of the massive camping and 'planking' you can do on that stage. I think it's legal, but if it isn't, that's possibly the reason

Corneria, Pictochat, and Great Sea WAS gonna be banned, but we was going left and right with it, so as a result, Alex put them as counterpicks. He feels we may regret it later, but we'll see.

Norfair is definitly legal as a counterpick.

What? Great Sea has bombs that do 50% damage and land randomly on the stage.

Green Greens has bombs that only land in a specified area (you can use them to your advantage, and know how to avoid them easily), only do 20%, and I've got videos of Metaknights surviving the explosion at over 100% despite being ridiculously light (and Snake survives them at like 150%).


Fight for it, seriously, it's a very important counterpick. It's the only stage in the game that actually disadvantages Metaknight, G&W, and ROB, plus it disadvantages Falco, DISCOURAGES camping (Falco can't laser through the blocks, for example), and allows for tactical planning.

While DDD can infinite, most of the other infinites don't work. ROB's dtilt infinite is really hard to space so that the blocks don't break, and Marth's breaks the blocks when he tries it.

And you can stay on the platforms above to survive against DDD.

 

[Rockin]

What? Great Sea has bombs that do 50% damage and land randomly on the stage.

Green Greens has bombs that only land in a specified area (you can use them to your advantage, and know how to avoid them easily), only do 20%, and I've got videos of Metaknights surviving the explosion at over 100% despite being ridiculously light (and Snake survives them at like 150%).


Fight for it, seriously, it's a very important counterpick. It's the only stage in the game that actually disadvantages Metaknight, G&W, and ROB, plus it disadvantages Falco, DISCOURAGES camping (Falco can't laser through the blocks, for example), and allows for tactical planning.

While DDD can infinite, most of the other infinites don't work. ROB's dtilt infinite is really hard to space so that the blocks don't break, and Marth's breaks the blocks when he tries it.

And you can stay on the platforms above to survive against DDD.

Try to understand I don't know the real reason why some of the stages like Green Greens are banned, but it's really my opinon. Also, anything that encourages infinites, even if it's just one character, is banned. stages like Deflino and Pokemon statium 1, while have walls, are temporary cause the stage moves around, causing it to be a temporary infinite. Right now, the stage as to it being legal or not is set in stone till possibly after the first monthly. I'll try, but I'm telling you, I have about a 85% chance of winning the arguement, especially since I know little about the stage.


In anycase, let's drop the discussion off for now, as I don't want it to be sidetracked to what this topic is about. so please, continue telling what other good stages are in favor for Peach against Meta Knight

 

[Praxis]

Try to understand I don't know the real reason why some of the stages like Green Greens are banned, but it's really my opinon. Also, anything that encourages infinites, even if it's just one character, is banned. stages like Deflino and Pokemon statium 1, while have walls, are temporary cause the stage moves around, causing it to be a temporary infinite. Right now, the stage as to it being legal or not is set in stone till possibly after the first monthly. I'll try, but I'm telling you, I have about a 85% chance of winning the arguement, especially since I know little about the stage.


In anycase, let's drop the discussion off for now, as I don't want it to be sidetracked to what this topic is about. so please, continue telling what other good stages are in favor for Peach against Meta Knight

Well I'd love to help with the argument, I really think Green Greens should be legal anywhere Point out that the walls are destroyable, and a good player can continue to destroy the blocks and fight DDD, and the diversity of it is too important- banning the only stage that is a viable Metaknight counterpick in the game just to stop DDD from using it is not worth the trade.


Anyway, I don't know if there ARE any other good MK counterpicks. I've been told Norfair is good, but I dunno if it's good for Peach.

 

[Gea]

Its not even a great DDD stage really.

Norfair is good against meta if you can kill off the top well. Its *okay* for Peach but GG is better. I even like FD better. Meta, while he dies early there, is super mobile.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

I think pictochat would be good if it's on. All that random tornadoing will get him hit by all those stage hazards.

 

[goodkid]

I personally like platforms or moving stages, they help with my turnip setups, but you should really choose anything your comfortable with & I don't think there is a best cp stage for any char, it just depends on you.

 

[deepseadiva]

I'm wondering what happens if a Meta tornadoes over the spinning blocks on the bottom. Do they become loose and kill him? Can you tech the slopes?

The blocks do become loose and he would die. But the tornado has to end on them otherwise he can just spin over them.

And you can also tech the slopes.

Yay for answering your own questions!

EDIT: Have you people played with ledgecanceling moves on the spinning blocks in Yoshi's Island (Melee)? I'm doing some crazy stuff by playing the ledge and canceling EVERYTHING.

 

[deepseadiva]

Updated with Pit for this week's character matchup discussion.

 

[DrakeRowan]

Any stage that prevents Pit from going under the stage to recover helps. I recommend:

1. Luigi's mansion (While indoors the ceiling and those middle platforms can be abused (for peach's favor). The columns also disrupts arrows. While outdoors, the above average width and length of the stage grants both parties some survivability. Pit cannot go around the bottom to recover.)

2. Pokemon Stadium 1 (Stage constantly shifts which can hinder his arrows flight paths. The fan on the water stadium, The burnt tree(?) on the fire stadium, and the mountain on the rock/ground stadium are a nuisance to everyone. Use these to your advantage.)

3. Castle Siege *Particularly part 2* (Statues also hinders his arrows, and close walk off edges can be abused by both parties.)

4. Yoshi Island Melee

5. Yoshi Island Brawl

 

[Praxis]

I like Pokemon Stadium 1 personally. Standing under the platforms gives you a great defensive position. Pit has poor approaches on Peach, and that gives you arrow cover.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Having just played a Pit, I managed to actually gimp his Up + B by using a ground floated Dair whilst he was hovering near the thinnest sections of Battlefield/Smashville egde. Stage spiked him on Battlefield

I loled

Don't forget that the statues on Castle Siege and the pillars in Luigi's Mansion also hinder Peach's Turnips

 

[Morrigan]

I wouldn't pick Battlefield or Smashville against him, both give him recovery advantage. Like everyone already said, PS1 is great. I always choose either that one or Yoshi's Island Brawl. YIB makes his recovery act just like everyone else's, plus there is a small chance of gimping him, but it's weird to send a Pit downwards in that stage since we don't have any useful spike.

 

[deepseadiva]

I think we can agree to ban FD, right?

 

[Praxis]

Heck no. Ban Hanenbow. Pit ***** there, it's not even funny.

 

[PrepareYourself]

I think we can agree to ban FD, right?

Arrows = Laser Straight. Straight Stage = Final Destination = Ban.

Heck no. Ban Hanenbow. Pit ***** there, it's not even funny.

In addition, it totally sucks for Peach... Isn't it usually banned anyways? I mean, no ledges, all through platforms, in general suck.

 

[cj.Shark]

Yoshis island is our worst neutral. shyguys and No ability to float understage makes gimping seem a whole lot more problable. also Ledge stages suck!

 

[Admiral Pit]

Well I'm gonna say that Pit pwns hard at Norfair. Angel Rings sliding off platforms, U-airs under stages, and he can stall for a while and can also avoid hazards somewhat easily.

I really hate Yoshi's Island though by far.

Your title name mentioning Pit... that really hurts.