COUNTerpick and ban thread

[Count]

Since we never really finished discussions on all the stages/chars I'm going to go ahead and say what I CP/ban vs certain characters..if you want any justification for why i do it just post i the thread. I'm not saying I know the best but a basic layout could help a lot of people who aren't sure what to CP/ban.

Meta Knight
Counterpick: smashville Ban: RC/brinstar (player dependent) (norfair if legal)

Snake
Counterpick: smashville Ban: halberd

Diddy:
ban your least favorite or other players strength (ban rc vs p1 ) cp your favorite or most confident stage

Falco:
Counterpick: Lylat
Ban: Japes if legal..if not mayyyybe FD or BF

Ice Climbers

This matchup is pretty much stage and player dependent..when I play lain I usually ban FD and we play all games on smashville..if the player doesn't use a secondary you could go to brinstar or RC depending on your confidence on those stages.

Marth
Counterpick: smashville Ban: lylat

Wario
Counterpick: YI or BF ban: brinstar

King Dedede
ban: RC
cp: smashville..maybe BF

Pikachu

Honestly I'm ignorant regarding this matchup but it doesn't seem like anything stands out either way..feel free to help me though

Counterpick: smashville
Ban: RC (not really sure what to ban)

Olimar
Counterpick: Smashville
Ban: halberd

Lucario
Counterpick: smashville or BF
Ban: Japes if legal..frigate otherwise. (norfair if legal)

Mr Game & Watch
Counterpick: smashville
Ban: RC or Brinstar..maybe green greens if MLG (norfair if legal)

Pit

Fairly ignorant on this matchup as well.

Counterpick: smashville or BF
Ban: norfair if legal, otherwise delfino

Toon Link
Counterpick: smashville
Ban: defino

Zero Suit Samus
Counterpick: smashville
Ban: brinstar

Kirby
Counterpick: smashville or BF
Ban: brinstar

ROB
Counterpick: battlefield
Ban: halberd

DK
Counterpick: smashville
Ban: brinstar

Peach
Counterpick: smashville
Ban: rc

Fox
Counterpick: smashville
Ban: halberd

Luigi
Counterpick: smashville
ban: brinstar

Wolf
Counterpick: smashville
ban: brinstar? not sure tbh

Sheik
Counterpick: smashville
Ban: halberd

Pokemon Trainer
Counterpick: smashville
Ban: brinstar? P1 help haha

Sonic:
Counterpick: smashville
Ban: rc

Ness
Counterpick: smashville
Ban: brinstar

Bowser
Counterpick: smashville
Ban: rc

Lucas
Counterpick: smashville
Ban: brinstar

Ike
Counterpick: smashville
Ban: brinstar

Yoshi
Counterpick: smashville
Ban: lylat

Mario
Counterpick: smashville
Ban: lylat

Falcon
Counterpick: smashville
Ban: brinstar

Zelda
Counterpick: smashville
Ban: halberd

Link
Counterpick: smashville
Ban: halberd

Ganon
Counterpick: smashville
Ban: brinstar





Sorry for the sloppiness of this thread-I just wanted to get my cp/bans out there. Any questions about why just let me know. I'm a pretty conservative player-hence my choice of smashville a lot of the time.

 

[chimpact]

Why ban lylat against olimar and i ban frigate against lucarios

 

[SaveMeJebus]

against olimar I prefer to go BF because on smashville, he can get on the moving platform and safely throw his pikmin at you

 

[Calebyte]

Hmmm, I think you would want to ban Battlefield against Mario. It's his best stage. BF gives him more options for buffering aerials out of cape glide, plus Mario can wall jump off the ledge here, giving him more ledge options than normal. If I were you, I would ban BF and CP FD.

 

[Ingulit]

BAN HALBERD against Olimar. SERIOUSLY. He kills off the top of the screen 90% of the time, and is 10 times easier here. I like to CP him to Lylat personally; sure, he has under-the-stage-U-Air hijinks, but the slope hurts him a lot and recovering there is that much harder for him. I DEFINITELY wouldn't be banning it... I'd love to hear your reasoning behind that.

As far as Pikachu goes, ban Norfair IMMEDIATELY if it is legal, and if it's not ban PS1 (he outcamps us like crazy there). If the Pika player really likes the stage, you might want to consider banning RC as well, but I'd pick PS1 well before RC myself. Pikachu mains like Halberd and Frigate too, but PS1 is HORRIBLE if they start camping TJolts hard.

Pika mians hate Brinstar and Japes, but we do too for that matter. You could try Luigi's Mansion if it isn't banned, but I personally hate the stage. Yoshi's and Battlefield are good choices because they screw up his QAC and TJolt game, but probably the best stage is FD (though if the other player is at all smart, he'll have banned that stage already).

Pikachu Ban Summary:
Norfair > PS1 > Halberd > Rainbow Cruise > Frigate

Pikachu CP Summary:
FD > Yoshi's > Battlefield (> Luigi's) > Japes > Brinstar

 

[TreK]

Oli has ****lods of yellow pikmen on Lylat, you don't want that to happen and it's the reason you'll never see anyone cp an Oli on Orphy =/

btw, try to put at least 2 CPs and 2 bans, because there's always a chance that we get smashville as the starter, and a chance that the dude we're playing has got a secondary.

 

[Player-1]

I'm pretty sure I ban either brinstar or halberd against every character.


I ban brinstar against pikachu, lucario, TL, PT, Mario, Bowser, Captain Falcon, GaW, Ganon, Ike, Jigglypuff, Kirby, MK, Ness, Pit, Samus, Wario, ZSS, DK, Lucas

I ban halberd against Falco, Fox, ICs Link, Luigi, Olimar, Sheik/Zelda, Snake, Sonic, Wolf, Yoshi

I ban Castle Siege against D3

I ban Lylat against Marth

I ban Frigate vs ROB

I never vs Peach's offline and only on the AiB ladder which I usually ban japes =/, but I'd probably ban brinstar IRL

 

[Ingulit]

That makes sense; I knew not to take him to Orpheon for that reason, but I never knew that happened on Lylat. That's what happens when the local Olimar main switches to MK (not pointing any fingers)

Was what I did for Pikachu's bans and CPs okay (for the 2 CP/ban rule)?

P1: Pikachu mains hate Brinstar about as much as us. I'd ban Halberd first.

P1 again: Why Lylat vs. Marth? Most characters take him there, why not Diddy? I always heard we should ban BF.

 

[Count]

Ha, I'm an idiot. I ALWAYS ban halberd vs olimar. I dunno why I didn't think about that when doing this.

@Caleb I thought that too about BF, but we struggle way more on lylat than we do BF and I think its a much better stage for us.


@Yoshi

you're right, we should ban frigate vs lucario.

Changing oli/lucario

edit @ingulit I don't really think Pika outcamps us on ps1..i'd much rather go there than brinstar or rc or frigate..the more i think about it the more i think we should maybe ban frigate against pika. You're right about oli, the ironic thing is that i really do always ban that against my buddy hilt..


another edit: i'll add another cp and ban for most stages..good call teneban..i'll add that tomorrow or sometime in the near future though cause I have an exam in 6 and a half hours..summer classes ftw lol.

triple edit: halberd would be a legit ban vs pika too. Player preference imo.



ahhh last edit: i realized i forgot some characters. I'm a failure on multiple levels

 

[Player-1]

I don't see why, at least vs diddy, except for the stuff that gets in the way of thunderjolt camping. I don't want to die from some stupid mistake i make from a thunder at 60 (plus if the thunder hits something then it extends its hitboxs), fsmash is pretty good here too, and they seem a lot more versatile on the stage than Diddy.

 

[Count]

Just speaking from personal experience, lylat is bad vs marth, and I just feel more confident on BF. If you ask ADHD he says not really to ban anything vs marth, so I think marth just comes down to player preference. You could ban brinstar too if you want.

 

[Ingulit]

Eww, yeah, I'd probably ban Brinstar now that I think about it. I've never played a decent Marth there before, but I can picture that going badly x|

And PS1 is one of Pikachu's best stages bar none for camping; his TJolts utterly dominate us here. I've played well over a hundred matches against our state's best Pikachu, and I can say safely that I dread nothing more than PS1 coming up on Random. As a player preference, I would take him ANYWHERE else.

EDIT: Except Norfair. But that's a given.

 

[TreK]

Halberd's my cp against Marth
The flying part is good for us because Marth can't ledgeguard us there, and we outcamp him really bad on the ship part.
I know Marth can kill us sooner with his usmash, but the trade's worth it imo.

 

[Player-1]

Marth is really good on Brinstar, but no Marths ever CP me there, they always go BF since I ban Lylat, if Marths did start CPing me there then I'd probably start banning it. A lot of the banning I do comes down to the other player too, for example I know BigLou hates playing on any non neutral stage or stages that aren't like neutrals so I know he wouldn't CP brinstar so I don't ban it and instead I go ban halberd because I know that he'd CP me there in a heartbeat.

 

[DFEAR]

always ban norfair...cuz they will go mk/wario on ur ***...yay counterpick system.

 

[Player-1]

I'll go Luigi then, Luigi is the best character in the game after all.

 

[TreK]

You're such a tier *****, P1 !

 

[-Joannett88-]

you MUST ban halberd against olimar,srsly,and cp smashville or YI. Bf is good for olimar as well

 

[Ingulit]

DO NOT take Olimar to Yoshi's... it's one of his best camping stages. If he just stays underneath the platform, you have VERY few options for approaching. Smashville and FD are the only two good choices imo, after that maybe RC (although any decent Olimar main will CP as soon as you say RC).

 

[Player-1]

olimar.d3. all the same on rc

 

[Ingulit]

I think you're the only person I know who would take a D3 to RC.

 

[Count]

BF and SV are your best choices against olimar. Yoshi's isn't good, I agree, but it isn't terrible.

Like I said, I always ban halberd against olimar, I don't know why I didn't remember that initially in the thread. I'll add another cp for each char soon.

 

[Ingulit]

I would go on ahead and add FD to the list of potential counterpicks for any character where it is a good idea; that way, if they DON'T ban FD, you'll know if they're either stupid or banking on you picking it. At the very least, it would show which characters it would be bad to CP there.

 

[DFEAR]

diddy is amazing on castle siege just sayin : >

 

[Ingulit]

If you're in match 5 of a finals match and you've already blown your better CPs due to Dave's Stupid Rule, then I'd agree.

 

[-Joannett88-]

DO NOT take Olimar to Yoshi's... it's one of his best camping stages. If he just stays underneath the platform, you have VERY few options for approaching. Smashville and FD are the only two good choices imo, after that maybe RC (although any decent Olimar main will CP as soon as you say RC).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Re3SU8p-HCE

 

[Ingulit]

He wasn't camping nearly as hard as he should have. I'll try to get a video of me playing DanGR if he'd ever pick Olimar up again.

 

[mb?]

diddy is amazing on castle siege just sayin : >

i main diddy and i think castle siege is a prity good stage for diddy

 

[-Joannett88-]

He wasn't camping nearly as hard as he should have. I'll try to get a video of me playing DanGR if he'd ever pick Olimar up again.

Fot exampl I think olimar can camp much better in sv because of it's much bigger and the platform allow him to act more defensive... That's my opinion!

 

[AvaricePanda]

I'd rather play Oli on Yoshi's than SV because like Joan said, that platform is irritating against him.

 

[Player-1]

I prefer any neutral except YI against Olimar. I find that they can camp harder and abuse their grabs a lot more, partially because the large platform covers nearly all of the stage and your bananas get stuck up on there which slows your game down. One thing I noticed though is that you can camp oli on YI too if you camp the side with the platform tilted down because the pikmen some time get caught up on top of the platform, but the platform doesn't tilt around as much as you think it may and then controlling that side adds on another variable you have to consider so it's not that useful, but if you just so happen to notice that he's on one side and your on the other and the platform is tilted down then just try it out.

 

[TreK]

RC is actually good for Olimar.
His playstyle there is almost the same as Diddy's, maybe a bit more effective at killing and less at controlling. You can still try to cp him here, but you could get MKed if the Oli was too lazy to learn the stage.

Castle siege suks against him because he can camp us and we can't (pikmen go through the statues in example ; bananas don't) ; plus his grab game is amazing so walkoffs help him more than it helps us at controlling the stage.

With diddy, I really don't know where to cp him. When I was to cp an oli, which happenned only twice, I cp'd brinstar + Luigi soooo =/

 

[Player-1]

I usually CP FD, SV, or RC against Olimar. Just know some of the tricks he can do such as up-b through solid objects and be careful at the parts with low ceilings also watch for when he uses his midair jump during the "2nd transformation" part of the stage and just try to intercept it with an aerial and gimp him.

 

[FelixTrix]

I guess if I don't know a matchup i'm just gonna cp SV right? LOL. BF and picto aren't good cp's i guess.

 

[Player-1]

no felix, cp rc

 

[TreK]

PC is banned in France/Europe =(

 

[Count]

I guess if I don't know a matchup i'm just gonna cp SV right? LOL. BF and picto aren't good cp's i guess.

You're such a terrible troll lol. This is just what I CP in most matchups. I CP BF all the time as well depending on individual player and because people ban smashville on me because I'm probably better there than FD, but for the most part its my most comfortable stage.

I don't like picto that much just because I don't like random stuff happening to me, even if its a good stage for diddy. On top of that, its banned in about half the tournaments I'm at.

tl;dr? BF and picto are great CPs I just think smashville is better in most matchups. Prove me wrong somehow instead of putting LOL BF IS GOOD

 

[sai_:)]

Count you gotta play more pictochat maaan. its OVERLY AWESOME for diddy :D :D :D

 

[DFEAR]

a final d with gimmicks...huzzah!

 

[Gnes]

a final d with gimmicks...huzzah!

Count you gotta play more pictochat maaan. its OVERLY AWESOME for diddy :D :D :D

Until ur trying to recover...and the spikes appear....and then u get timed out

HUZZAH!!!