Could someone test Heavy Brawl at a tournament?

[DRaGZ]

Hello everyone.

Lemme explain it to you straight.

We are discussing the concept of using Heavy Brawl as a tournament standard in this topic:

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=158712

Now, a lot of us have figured that the only way to prove the viability of Heavy Brawl is to put it in action. We have already procured lots of evidence as to why it's more competitively viable than regular Brawl (the near complete nerfing of pure-camping, for one).

There are pros and there are cons to using this mode. However, all of the cons are nerfs against characters, and some characters actually gain buffs. In any case, I'd rather alter the way characters play and fix the physics that so severely limit the approach and punishment aspect of this game rather than play with the characters the way they play in an environment that favors camping and stale tactics being force-fed into the opponents' respective throats.

Now, the only way to prove this concept is to have a Heavy Brawl tournament. Obviously, I don't know how to set up such a thing. This is why I am asking you guys.

Can anyone here try Heavy Brawl at a tournament? Pretty please? Perhaps not as the main tournament but maybe as a side tournament. If it's near San Diego, I'll personally come over and help and participate, but this is something I can't set up by myself because 1. I don't know how and 2. I can't really spare the time...

Any responses would be nice. Thanks.

 

[DRaGZ]

Anyone? At all? Please?

 

[Pink Reaper]

The problem here is that it would have to be an actual "in person" kind of tournament since it can't be done online and as such it would take actual time to set up and most people would be against it as its a "special brawl" mode. You might have a bit more luck if you found someone who was already holding a tournament and asking them just to test it for you as a side event.

 

[pockyD]

brawl tournaments are already uninteresting enough, but to make it a gimmick brawl tournament?

no surprise that no one's interested

i'd honestly rather play coin battle with items

 

[DRaGZ]

Well...it's not really a gimmick. If anything, it's far more competitively interesting that regular Brawl, it's just that everyone seems to have the wrong mindset about it.

 

[GreenMarth]

this is very interesting and could work BUT i think the buffs and nerfs make the game too unbalanced ...it would boil down to 2-3 characters quickly...

 

[DRaGZ]

this is very interesting and could work BUT i think the buffs and nerfs make the game too unbalanced ...it would boil down to 2-3 characters quickly...

What's to say that regular Brawl wouldn't have the exact same "boiling down"? (I'm seeing it happen already).

If anything, everyone in Heavy Brawl has more offensive options, which makes all of them more competitively viable. But that's not the point I'm trying to make anyway.

I'm not even trying to make that point in this topic.

 

[Nasty_Nate]

It gimps diddys recovery horribly
so no thank you

 

[Ornj]

yah theres no point it doesnt add more hit stun which is what brawl is missing

 

[DRaGZ]

Read the topic I posted. It explains everything about Heavy Brawl you don't know.

 

[Gea]

Host it yourself.

 

[BreakBones]

It gimps diddys recovery horribly
so no thank you

Isn't Diddy awesome enough as it is?

yah theres no point it doesnt add more hit stun which is what brawl is missing

Technically it reduces the knockback as in the faster falling that heavy mode has which can help with combos.

Host it yourself.

illegible much?

this is a good topic and a good attempt to help make brawl more interesting, i don't understand why people are so negative toward it...

 

[Card]

Host it yourself.

As blunt as he said it... this man speaks the truth.

I believe the old saying "If you want something done right, do it yourself" applies here.

Judging from all of your posts, you are incredibly in favor of Heavy Brawl as being considered as part of the competitive scene. The only way you'll ever get a tournament to be run in Heavy Brawl would be to host it yourself, or find someone who is equally in favor of Heavy Brawl to do it for you. Everyone else (myself included) is skeptical towards the whole idea, or would rather let someone else get their hands dirty to see the results. So posting a thread like this is pretty much useless.

It shouldn't be that hard either, according to your location your in San Diego, which is just booming with a huge community of Smashers. Hosting a tournament really isn't that difficult either (I've done it myself). Just find an appropriate Venue (You could even ask other TO's in San Diego where they have hosted tournaments before) and reserve it in advance. Then just post up some Threads to advertise your tournament, people will come regardless. Make sure to have plenty of videos of matches (especially finals), and make sure to compile a ton of competitor feedback on the tournament, and ask them what they liked/disliked about Heavy Brawl.

It will definitely take some work, but who said this would be easy?

Anyways, I support you on your endeavors, and I am definitely interested in seeing the results of Heavy Brawl in an actual competitive scene.

 

[BreakBones]

As blunt as he said it... this man speaks the truth.

I believe the old saying "If you want something done right, do it yourself" applies here.

Judging from all of your posts, you are incredibly in favor of Heavy Brawl as being considered as part of the competitive scene. The only way you'll ever get a tournament to be run in Heavy Brawl would be to host it yourself, or find someone who is equally in favor of Heavy Brawl to do it for you. Everyone else (myself included) is skeptical towards the whole idea, or would rather let someone else get their hands dirty to see the results. So posting a thread like this is pretty much useless.

It shouldn't be that hard either, according to your location your in San Diego, which is just booming with a huge community of Smashers. Hosting a tournament really isn't that difficult either (I've done it myself). Just find an appropriate Venue (You could even ask other TO's in San Diego where they have hosted tournaments before) and reserve it in advance. Then just post up some Threads to advertise your tournament, people will come regardless. Make sure to have plenty of videos of matches (especially finals), and make sure to compile a ton of competitor feedback on the tournament, and ask them what they liked/disliked about Heavy Brawl.

It will definitely take some work, but who said this would be easy?

Anyways, I support you on your endeavors, and I am definitely interested in seeing the results of Heavy Brawl in an actual competitive scene.

oooh i always thought ppl did it by hosting it at their house or something, that's a good idea i might just start one now...just gotta find the right place, any ideas?

 

[XSilvenX]

Yah go ahead and try to make heavy Brawl the standard for tournies..I wonder if Melee came out after Brawl would low gravity brawl be the standard for Melee tournaments in that scenario?! You guys are seriously pathetic...if you can't win vs a camper then it's your fault..don't blame the game's physics because the camper is beating you, it worked the same way in Melee except since this game is slower the campee feels like they can't do anything. You have so many options, people just like to overlook alot of things.

Anyway from what I'm reading; Heavy Brawl is supposed to prevent "lame" tactics and foil campers...I guess it also makes combo'ing easier but what would the purpose of that be? Do you like being hit with auto-combos? Oh well this won't catch on anyway..just another group of Melee lovers that want to make Brawl as Melee-like as possible.

Heavy Brawl is a horrible substitute by the way ( just messed around with it). It feels like Melee I'll give it that but it doesn't make any playstyle less or more effective. I don't see where you guys are trying to go with this? It's not like it will actually help you win ...if you suck against campers now then how much more will you suck against them when you can barely jump over their projectiles..roflmao

 

[BDawgPHD]

...In any case, I'd rather alter the way characters play and fix the physics that make me suck at this game, rather than stop sucking and learn how to play the game under the conditions it was designed to be played in in the first place.

Learn to play. It's the only way you'll ever have a shot at actually winning a game.

 

[5150]

i tried brawl on heavy and all it did is make camping more viable. approaching in the air is even harder becasue you always land with lag on an aerial.

 

[DoubleAced]

Learn to play. It's the only way you'll ever have a shot at actually winning a game.

I agree 100%.

 

[AlphaZealot]

Im against anything that doesn't help my Diddy.

 

[Master WGS]

I played with Heavy on today and found it more fun. I like Brawl as it is, so I'm not one of those guys saying that "Blah blah blah, I can't beat camping" or "Blah blah blah, I don't know how to play Brawl because I never tried."

No. I like Brawl fine. It's just not as fun as Melee. Heavy mode lets me use those new characters I want to play with, and gives it a slightly more Melee-esque feel, but different enough to where it's not some lame Melee 2.0.

I support this, and if I get the chance I WILL start hosting tournaments like this.

 

[otg]

Yah go ahead and try to make heavy Brawl the standard for tournies..I wonder if Melee came out after Brawl would low gravity brawl be the standard for Melee tournaments in that scenario?!

Uhhh.... if Brawl came out before Melee there never would have been a competitive scene like the one Melee developed. Let's see where competitive Brawl stands 2 years from now. Hell, even a year from now.

 

[Furious_Flip]

Uhhh.... if Brawl came out before Melee there never would have been a competitive scene like the one Melee developed. Let's see where competitive Brawl stands 2 years from now. Hell, even a year from now.

agreed..

I support the heavy brawl as a competitive standard, but not as to replace all regular brawl tournies, just for the hardcore competitive people. Say that Melee never came out, even so, Brawl in its regular state would NEVER be a competitive game. Casuals are fine in regular brawl, but adding in the heavy mode makes the game THAT much for competitive and SHOULD be the mode to attract the competitive scene.

 

[BDawgPHD]

agreed..

I support the heavy brawl as a competitive standard, but not as to replace all regular brawl tournies, just for the hardcore competitive people. Say that Melee never came out, even so, Brawl in its regular state would NEVER be a competitive game. Casuals are fine in regular brawl, but adding in the heavy mode makes the game THAT much for competitive and SHOULD be the mode to attract the competitive scene.

I don't see why....I haven't done extensive testing, but I'd imagine it would greatly shift the game in favor of those who don't have a difficult time recovering/staying on the stage. Also, I'm guessing that certain utilts would **** people into oblivion (Luigi's, MK's, Snake's utilts).

So, how exactly would this be more competitive? Isn't it more competitive to consistently get the better of a player, instead of getting him caught in a gay trap once?

Now, I'm not saying that it doesn't take skill to get someone caught in an utilt combo, and I'm not saying that Melee doesn't take skill...I'm saying that Brawl takes a different type of skill than Heavy Brawl for sure....but it likely takes more skill.

 

[2-Tone]

seriously, quit trying to make brawl into melee. It will never happen. Melee is too superior and deep to be duplicated especially with all the ATs taken out such as L-cancelling. Heavy Brawl would just be Brawl with faster fast-falling, and without hit-stun it won't make a lick of difference. Have fun trying to make this the competitive mode while I play Melee waiting for it's inevitable come-back to the tournament scene.

 

[Furious_Flip]

I don't see why....I haven't done extensive testing, but I'd imagine it would greatly shift the game in favor of those who don't have a difficult time recovering/staying on the stage. Also, I'm guessing that certain utilts would **** people into oblivion (Luigi's, MK's, Snake's utilts).

So, how exactly would this be more competitive? Isn't it more competitive to consistently get the better of a player, instead of getting him caught in a gay trap once?

Now, I'm not saying that it doesn't take skill to get someone caught in an utilt combo, and I'm not saying that Melee doesn't take skill...I'm saying that Brawl takes a different type of skill than Heavy Brawl for sure....but it likely takes more skill.

Well, there are quite a few things that I've noticed that make the game more competitive in heavy than regular brawl, but I don't want to blabber about every single reason so I'm just gonna make an example.

First of all, there's no getting in an utilt trap in heavy brawl, especially with the new air dodge. There might be a case of getting 2 or more utilts on a lower percentage but an experienced player would know how to DI/air dodge out of it.
The example that I wanted to make was with Falcon's forward-b. In heavy, C.fal feels more like his melee counterpart AND I DON'T FAVOR HEAVY JUST BECAUSE OF THAT FACT. In regular brawl his FB would send the opponent pretty high regardless of the percentage. With heavy, it adds more of a mindgame as the launched opponent is sent lower and are given less reaction time. C.Fal will quickly follow up with an uair, and it connects. After a couple times of getting caught with the same 2-hit, the opponent catches on so they plan to air-dodge right away after the FB hits, in order to avoid the following uair. Now, the C.Fal, after whiffing a few uairs notices that the opponent uairs right away after the fb, so now he could delay the uair to connect, or even go for the KNEE.

This little sequence is nearly impossible on regular brawl as characters are too floaty and are given too much reaction time to forsee the action and change how they react. I know people are gonna keep flaming, and that everyone should just play regular brawl, but I just want at least some pros to give heavy brawl s'more testing.

 

[BDawgPHD]

Well, there are quite a few things that I've noticed that make the game more competitive in heavy than regular brawl, but I don't want to blabber about every single reason so I'm just gonna make an example.

First of all, there's no getting in an utilt trap in heavy brawl, especially with the new air dodge. There might be a case of getting 2 or more utilts on a lower percentage but an experienced player would know how to DI/air dodge out of it.
The example that I wanted to make was with Falcon's forward-b. In heavy, C.fal feels more like his melee counterpart AND I DON'T FAVOR HEAVY JUST BECAUSE OF THAT FACT. In regular brawl his FB would send the opponent pretty high regardless of the percentage. With heavy, it adds more of a mindgame as the launched opponent is sent lower and are given less reaction time. C.Fal will quickly follow up with an uair, and it connects. After a couple times of getting caught with the same 2-hit, the opponent catches on so they plan to air-dodge right away after the FB hits, in order to avoid the following uair. Now, the C.Fal, after whiffing a few uairs notices that the opponent uairs right away after the fb, so now he could delay the uair to connect, or even go for the KNEE.

This little sequence is nearly impossible on regular brawl as characters are too floaty and are given too much reaction time to forsee the action and change how they react. I know people are gonna keep flaming, and that everyone should just play regular brawl, but I just want at least some pros to give heavy brawl s'more testing.

Learn how to play Brawl.

EDIT: Excuse me, learn how to play competitively.

 

[hippochinfat!!]

If people want to play heavy brawl and have heavy brawl tournaments just let them.

It is a mode in the game, let people play it.

 

[BDawgPHD]

Seriously, the guy that came up with this idea is a total ****ing scrub that doesn't know how to play Brawl....I don't even think he knows how to play video games in general. If I played heavy brawl with him, I'd find something to exploit, and then he'd think heavy brawl was a bad idea. Because he ****ing sucks.

 

[SothE700k]

Heavy brawl for tournaments!? I just tested that literally 5 seconds ago. Sonic didn't even go an inch up when I tried to recover, F*&( THAT S&)*.

 

[Tope]

Heavy Brawl is cool, I just wish it messed with the jumping physics less.

 

[11j]

i don't know he might be on to something

 

[SothE700k]

No no no. Try recovering after getting knocked off at 10% then not even going up an inch after jumping twice AND using your up-b, with the result of your death because you couldn't move UP. Once you do that, come back and talk to everyone about Heavy Brawl as the competitive way. Until then...

*&^* NO

 

[I_R_Hungry]

I think the fact that nobody has seriously tested this in-tournament yet has shown that even if they did, not enough interest would be drawn for this to be very worthwhile in the long run. All it would probably accomplish is drawing a few players from the melee/brawl camps and further dividing the community.

 

[turbogilman]

have you seen pikas cg? in heavy mode it would be even dumber, haha

while heavy is fun to play... it is just too messed up.

PIKA PIKA!

 

[Firus]

I don't see why....I haven't done extensive testing, but I'd imagine it would greatly shift the game in favor of those who don't have a difficult time recovering/staying on the stage. Also, I'm guessing that certain utilts would **** people into oblivion (Luigi's, MK's, Snake's utilts).

You're right that some recoveries are nerfed. After testing, I found that Diddy, Sonic, Ice Climbers, Dedede, and Pit's recoveries are affected in a noticeable way. Diddy falls while charging the Jetpack, Sonic's jump from the spring is cut in half (if not more), Ice Climbers' recovery is cut in half, Dedede falls MUCH faster (if you're not close to the edge when you try using his recovery, you won't make it), and at the beginning of Pit's recovery, he falls quite a bit, basically cutting the time to make your recovery in half. Also, gliding characters have an advantage (if you use them during recovery) because they don't seem to be affected by the gravity. Utilts are easier to trap people in, but you'd have to be pretty stupid to get hit more than 3 times.

So, how exactly would this be more competitive? Isn't it more competitive to consistently get the better of a player, instead of getting him caught in a gay trap once?

Now, I'm not saying that it doesn't take skill to get someone caught in an utilt combo, and I'm not saying that Melee doesn't take skill...I'm saying that Brawl takes a different type of skill than Heavy Brawl for sure....but it likely takes more skill.

When you're talking about a fighting game, combos are more competitive. That's how fighting games work, Brawl is one of the few without them. And considering that Brawl encourages a form of fighting that most people consider cheap (camping, and yes, Brawl's engine does encourage it), I'd hardly say that combos are the things that are "gay", as you phrased it. It takes skill to land a combo, and it takes skill to avoid one. Avoiding or participating in camping doesn't take skill to do. Approaching doesn't take skill to counter, at least only to a certain extent.

In response to the topic: I think this is an interesting idea to toy with. I think it should be tried at least once in a tournament to test it out in a competitive setting. Just to see what happens. If everyone dies at 10% from a nerfed recovery, so be it. But at least we will have tried it out and will be able to rule out the possibility rather than eliminating something before we find out that it's less competitve than normal Brawl.

 

[SothE700k]

Heavy brawl:
%(first jump + second jump + upB) = X

Find X! ....No, too late, you already died at 10% because you're a F***ing ROCK....AND your recovery doesn't send you up, PERIOD.

Wanna set the competitive scene to heavy brawl? OK! Lets set up the rules then!
2 minute time limit
TWENTY F***ING STOCK. Doesn't matter because these matches are going to be done before they're started...

*sigh*

 

[Firus]

Heavy brawl:
%(first jump + second jump + upB) = X

Find X! ....No, too late, you already died at 10% because you're a F***ing ROCK....AND your recovery doesn't send you up, PERIOD.

Wanna set the competitive scene to heavy brawl? OK! Lets set up the rules then!
2 minute time limit
TWENTY F***ING STOCK. Doesn't matter because these matches are going to be done before they're started...

*sigh*

Try Heavy Brawl with someone BESIDES Sonic, because it is clear you haven't.

Only a few people's recoveries are actually affected by Heavy Brawl, see my previous post for the list.

Yes, aerial game is affected, but after a little bit of practice it could actually be viable...at least in my opinion.

I'm sorry if you main Sonic, but just because you do is no reason to FLIP OUT on the rest of us. Test it out before you start swearing and accusing people of not knowing what they're doing.

This is what, the third post you've made in this thread? All of them have the same point, so why do you keep saying it?

You really need to settle down, take a breath, try Heavy Brawl with one or more characters than Sonic (even those with affected recoveries would be better, as Sonic's recovery is quite possibly the most nerfed by Heavy Brawl), and come back and report to us what you find. Please.

 

[San Diego Reaper]

You cant fix brawl, its not as competitive as melee and it will never be. Heavy brawl wont make the characters faster, just change there knock back and falling speeds. Changing just a few problems when there is a laundry list will just make it worse.

 

[metalmonstar]

I think it would be interesting to try it out. I can't say I would want to see it become a standard but it would be a nice side competition to have every now and again.

 

[Toadster5]

I like how people are trying to make balance arguments when regular Brawl is horribly imbalanced as it is.